nprime
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/29 15:24:42
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If it is so close is it would be advisable to have a further vote down for the top ten.
I know Randy and Bit would love to keep doing this? LOL!
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rbowser
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/29 15:35:15
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nprime
If it is so close is it would be advisable to have a further vote down for the top ten.
I know Randy and Bit would love to keep doing this? LOL!
Riiiiiiiiiight, just what we want to keep doing - hehe--But let's see what develops over the next few days, then we can arrive at what will be the most fair thing to do. Meanwhile - someone gave their name as "Reek Havoc"---hmmm, wonder if that's a joke about the nature of that person's vote--? Randy B.
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Treppenwitz
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/29 18:06:25
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bitflipper
Votes are still coming in, but the count spread is still surprisingly narrow. It would appear that there is merit to Muzock's assertion that everybody has their own criteria for judging spaghetti sauce and orchestral movie themes.
Just a reminder: your emailed votes must include your real name and/or forum handle or they will not be counted. (If any of you know "Kowboy" or "Reek Havok", please have them contact me.) Names and email addresses will be kept strictly confidential. This requirement is merely to help assure that the voting is kept above-board.
I don't know him personally, but Reek Havok is a member of the Seattle Composer's Alliance. Pretty sure he's gone by that name for a long time: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/reek-havok/0/b28/b27
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bitflipper
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/29 19:42:47
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OK, Del, if you can vouch for him (or at least verify he's a real person), that's good enough for me. Reek's votes have been added to the poll.
No word yet on Kowboy.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Jose7822
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/29 21:42:00
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Oh wow!
EWQL just announced they'll start recording "Hollywood Brass" tomorrow!!!! *drools*
The same producers of Hollywood Strings will be involved in this project as well (including Shawn Murphy, of course).
I hope they produce the two remaining orchestral families in the same fashion. Man, things just keep getting better over at EWQL.
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LpMike75
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/30 01:05:02
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I cant afford Hollywood strings, I definately wont be able to afford Hollywood Brass but I sure cant wait to hear the demos! thats awesome
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Jose7822
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/30 08:20:03
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LpMike75
I cant afford Hollywood strings, I definately wont be able to afford Hollywood Brass but I sure cant wait to hear the demos! thats awesome
I can't afford HS yet either. But I will some day, hopefully in the not too distant future. Same with HB, after it is available. I don't know if you've heard Thomas Bergensen's own Brass library (only the MOST realistic Brass I've ever heard from samples - YES, much better than VSL, IMO), but if HB is anything like it, then we're in for some treat! Can't wait!
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Twigman
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/30 08:53:39
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Glyn Barnes
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/30 10:20:23
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Mine is now in.
It was very difficult. Getting rid of the the first half was not too bad, narrowing it down to the last three was tough.
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bitflipper
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/30 13:31:33
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I had to share this with you guys...in an earlier post, I asked if anyone knew "Reek Havok". I had replied to this voter saying that we could not count pseudonymous ballots, and asking if he would please give his real name so I could count his ballot. I hadn't heard back from him, so I asked here on this thread if anyone knew who he was. Treppenwitz replied that he knew the name through the Seattle Composers' Alliance. Del's verification that Reek Havok is indeed a real person was good enough for me, so I counted his votes. Then today I got this email from Reek Havok himself: Hi David, and don't feel bad about this but my legal name is Reek N. Havok. It has been for over 30 years. It's an old stage name I "acquired" in the 80's playing with a new wave band down in Los Angles. You can google my name or check out my companies website at www.SoundsAmazing.com Maybe Johnny Rotten has the same problem.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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rbowser
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/30 14:42:28
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Twigman - THANKS for voting. You too, Glyn - It's encouraging to know when people really take their time to choose the entries they vote for. It took me several days to make my choices, even though I'd heard them all several times by the time the website went up. I just kept narrowing down my list until I was finally satisfied with my choices.
Hope at least most people take their voting so seriously. Makes the results all the more viable.--as opposed to "Hey buddy, my entry number is X - please vote for it?"---and then the buddy may not even actually listen to any entries. Just a hypothetical.
Bitflipper--FUNNy stuff about this "Reek N. Havok"--hehe. I see from info online that he has quite a track record - Glad he found the contest and took the time to make some choices.
Randy B.
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bitflipper
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/30 15:54:16
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Yes, I want to thank everyone who really studied the entries, made notes, established objective evaluation criteria, and took the time to make well-thought-out decisions. You guys are participating in the true spirit of this exercise. I wish I could add a weighting factor to your votes.
The idea that someone would submit a vote without even listening to the entries irks me a great deal, even if the beneficiary neither instigated it nor ultimately won a prize because of it.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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rbowser
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/30 16:02:56
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bitflipper
Yes, I want to thank everyone who really studied the entries, made notes, established objective evaluation criteria, and took the time to make well-thought-out decisions. You guys are participating in the true spirit of this exercise. I wish I could add a weighting factor to your votes.
The idea that someone would submit a vote without even listening to the entries irks me a great deal, even if the beneficiary neither instigated it nor ultimately won a prize because of it.
You've been doing a great job, Bitflipper, making this second polling go more smoothly than the first one did. I know you've been doing everything you can to keep the contest clean. I'm sure you're moderating the email votes in an effective way. So Thank You! ONE MORE DAY TO VOTE after today! Randy B.
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yorolpal
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/30 17:44:03
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That's pretty funny about Reek. When I read Bit's post regarding him I thought to myself that CANNOT be the Reek N. Havok I'm familiar with...and then...it did turn out to be him after all. I can't even remember how I first heard of him back when. Small world. Hey...wait a minute...I just remembered. I'd bought a set of drum sample disks that he'd produced. Still have em, today. Rock on Reek!!
post edited by yorolpal - 2010/08/30 17:46:38
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LpMike75
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/30 19:40:11
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Jose7822
LpMike75
I cant afford Hollywood strings, I definately wont be able to afford Hollywood Brass but I sure cant wait to hear the demos! thats awesome
I can't afford HS yet either. But I will some day, hopefully in the not too distant future. Same with HB, after it is available.
I don't know if you've heard Thomas Bergensen's own Brass library (only the MOST realistic Brass I've ever heard from samples - YES, much better than VSL, IMO), but if HB is anything like it, then we're in for some treat! Can't wait!
I've long been interested in the Chris Hein horns (another collection I dont have) I will check out the Bergensen library, thanks for the info. I am lacking in good pop brass and big band brass. I wonder if Hollywood Brass will cover either of those areas. Seems unlikely
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jsaras
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/30 20:00:21
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Just to be clear, Thomas' brass library is not available for purchase. That was part of the legal agreement when the library was produced. That said, I've compiled several of my favorite mockups that Thomas has done over the years here in a single zip file so that you can hear it in action: http://tinyurl.com/24g5ohz
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LpMike75
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/30 20:20:44
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Thanks for the info Jsaras and also for the music link, some good stuff!
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bitflipper
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/30 20:39:33
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When I read Bit's post regarding him I thought to myself that CANNOT be the Reek N. Havok I'm familiar with...and then...it did turn out to be him after all. After hearing from multiple people who know Mr. Havok, it's starting to look like I'm the only one who didn't know his name! I guess there is a benefit to sticking with a unique name over time. People tend to remember it and are unlikely to confuse you with anyone else. Imagine him calling up an old friend he hasn't spoken with in twenty years..."hi, it's Reek"...the other person is probably not going to respond with "Reek who?". Given that his name has its roots in the punk music era, he's just lucky he didn't start going by "Stinky Toe Jam" or something back in the day. Imagine getting married and forcing your spouse to adopt "Gangrene" or "Toad Puke" as a surname.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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rbowser
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/30 21:13:31
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bitflipper
Given that his name has its roots in the punk music era, he's just lucky he didn't start going by "Stinky Toe Jam" or something back in the day. Imagine getting married and forcing your spouse to adopt "Gangrene" or "Toad Puke" as a surname.
HAHahahaha---You're in fine form tonight, Bit. Randy B.
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Jose7822
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/30 22:25:53
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LpMike75
I've long been interested in the Chris Hein horns (another collection I dont have) I will check out the Bergensen library, thanks for the info. I am lacking in good pop brass and big band brass. I wonder if Hollywood Brass will cover either of those areas. Seems unlikely
Unfortunately, like Jsaras said, Thomas Bergersen's Brass library is not for sale. Many people in the Soundsonline forums have been wanting it, but I think we will get something hopefully close to it with Hollywood Brass. I believe he is also involved in the making of it, so it'll be of quality.
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rbowser
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/30 22:49:55
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Jose7822
LpMike75
I've long been interested in the Chris Hein horns (another collection I dont have) I will check out the Bergensen library, thanks for the info. I am lacking in good pop brass and big band brass. I wonder if Hollywood Brass will cover either of those areas. Seems unlikely
Unfortunately, like Jsaras said, Thomas Bergersen's Brass library is not for sale. Many people in the Soundsonline forums have been wanting it, but I think we will get something hopefully close to it with Hollywood Brass. I believe he is also involved in the making of it, so it'll be of quality.
Thanks Jose, and Jonas - It did seem earlier like it was being said that the Thomas Bergersen Brass library was available. I Googled it and was confused by the results I got. Now I get it. - So - it's not available---why was it made? Just for his own use? Randy B.
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Jose7822
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/30 23:54:57
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I guess I should've used the word "private" instead of "own" in my previous post #127, as in:
"I don't know if you've heard Thomas Bergensen's own private Brass library"
That would've made it clear that it wasn't available for sale. As to its purpose, beyond his personal use, I have no clue. Maybe he just has the money to afford such things, but that's only speculation. Good question nonetheless.
Take care!
Intel Q9400 2.66 GHz 8 GB of RAM @ 800 Mhz ATI Radeon HD 3650 Windows 7 Professional (SP1) x64 Cubase 6.03 x64 Sonar PE 8.5.3 x64 RME FireFace 400 Frontier Design Alpha Track Studio Logic VMK-188 Plus http://www.youtube.com/user/SonarHD
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jsaras
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/31 10:18:01
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If you are lucky and/or good enough to be a composer who writes a lot of orchestral work for TV and film the cost of having at least part of your sample library be proprietary is well worth the expense. Your cues will sound different from the masses who only use VSL and EWQL and you will have some unusual articulations/noises that nobody else has.
I know of three "mid-level" composers who have made this kind of investment, and in one case (Audiobro, a.k.a. LA Scoring Strings) it became a commercial library and a very successful side-business. If you an A-list guy like Hans Zimmer (not that I'm a fan of HZ) your entire library is proprietary.
And I thought I was hot stuff when I added some reverb and EQ!
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rbowser
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/31 14:27:32
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VOTING ENDS TOMORROW, SEPT. 1st -
MIDNIGHT, PACIFIC TIME.
I invite everyone to copy this link:
http://www.wix.com/rbowser/orchestral-shootout
--and send it out to EVERYONE in your address book. In these remaining hours, let's get that link to hundreds, Thousands of people, friends, family, everyone under the sun, and encourage them to bury Bitflipper with ballots! He's on the job - he's ready to tally up all the votes. Let's make him really work during these remaining hours of the contest.
Do it! Let's shake up the vote and end this contest with a HUGE explosion of enthusiasm!
Randy B.
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noldar12
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/31 14:53:37
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Just wanted to let you know I just sent in my vote. I think I've heard that theme enough for awhile...
A couple of general comments:
I was surprised by the following very common issues/weaknesses:
1) Choice of reverb space
2) Melodic material being covered up by secondary harmonies
3) Lack of dynamics
That being said, many people put in lots of effort, and it will undoubtedly prove to be a very good learning experience. IMO, there were several excellent entries, and a few that I thought to be outstanding.
Bit and Randy, thanks for your excellent work and effort.
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noldar12
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/31 15:06:34
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Randy, one of the more interesting private libraries (often talked about on the v.i. forum) was the "Prague Project," where a number of composers banded together and created their own private library - something they could not have afforded to do each on their own. IIRC one of the terms of the agreement when the library was created was that it would never be made public.
With some of the more recent releases, I suspect that the quality lines between the private libraries and the top end public ones will blur. FWIW, I cannot afford HW Strings or the forthcoming HW brass either, and the number of computers that will be required to run those libraries well.
But, considering it was not that many years ago when a Kurzweil K2000, or Roland SP700 was state of the art, in terms of quality/affordability, we have come a long way.
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Jose7822
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/31 15:34:18
(permalink)
The situation we're in today with HS and the upcoming HB (as well as future EWQL libraries) is no different than back when Symphonic Orchestra Platinum came out, where one needed 4 computers (one for each section) to run it without issues. It'll take a bit before one can run those libraries with one system.
Intel Q9400 2.66 GHz 8 GB of RAM @ 800 Mhz ATI Radeon HD 3650 Windows 7 Professional (SP1) x64 Cubase 6.03 x64 Sonar PE 8.5.3 x64 RME FireFace 400 Frontier Design Alpha Track Studio Logic VMK-188 Plus http://www.youtube.com/user/SonarHD
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rbowser
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/31 16:14:07
(permalink)
noldar12
Just wanted to let you know I just sent in my vote. I think I've heard that theme enough for awhile...
A couple of general comments:
I was surprised by the following very common issues/weaknesses:
1) Choice of reverb space
2) Melodic material being covered up by secondary harmonies
3) Lack of dynamics
That being said, many people put in lots of effort, and it will undoubtedly prove to be a very good learning experience. IMO, there were several excellent entries, and a few that I thought to be outstanding.
Bit and Randy, thanks for your excellent work and effort.
Thank you very much for your post, Noldar. When David "Bitflipper" and I first discussed making some kind of event out of comparing various software orchestral instruments, I'm sure neither one of us quite envisioned how much work it would turn out to be. But that's OK - and it's the way most things are I think. If one really does clearly picture how much time and effort something is going to take - it can put the brakes on something before it's even started. Interesting general comments you left. 1-Reverb--IMHO, the way we like to hear reverb used in tracks is a very individual matter of taste. Some people seem to really like the super wet Huge sound of lots of reverb. I'm in the group that much prefers to hear things much more dry than is commonly heard. I don't think we could ever say there's a "correct" way to use reverb in orchestral recordings. I'll add, though, that I felt quite a few of these entries were too blurred with reverb. I think that was done to emulate the popular Hollywood sound - but it doesn't quite come off as well as the producers always wanted. 2 - Melodic material predominating sometimes. I noticed that too, in entries that seem to have some elements exactly the opposite of what I feel was intended in the score. That may have been in an attempt to have the softer elements, like the woodwinds, more distinct. 3 - Lack of dynamics. It's perhaps a trap of a big, fairly bombastic piece like this, to not exploit the chances for dynamic changes as much as possible. I think I know what you're saying about that. It'll be interesting to discuss everything in more depth in a few days when the contest portion of this event is over. AND I was serious earlier - Everyone should send that link out to EVERYONE, today! Randy B.
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John6528
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/31 17:57:23
(permalink)
rbowser
VOTING ENDS TOMORROW, SEPT. 1st -
MIDNIGHT, PACIFIC TIME.
I invite everyone to copy this link:
http://www.wix.com/rbowser/orchestral-shootout
--and send it out to EVERYONE in your address book. In these remaining hours, let's get that link to hundreds, Thousands of people, friends, family, everyone under the sun, and encourage them to bury Bitflipper with ballots! He's on the job - he's ready to tally up all the votes. Let's make him really work during these remaining hours of the contest.
Do it! Let's shake up the vote and end this contest with a HUGE explosion of enthusiasm!
Randy B.
Sheesh... "Midnight" is ambiguous. Do you meant 12:00 at the end of August 31st or 12:00 at the end of September 1st? There's 24 hours of difference. September 1 starts at 12:00 + 1 second this evening (Tuesday, August 31). I'm hoping that is what you meant but I still won't get the information till 2 am Minnesota time.
Why West Coast? Why not London time as respect for our British friends?
John
Sonar 8.5 64, Win 7 64 Asrock X58 Extreme3, I7-950, 12G ram OCZ Vertx3 120, Vertex2 90, WDM 1T Focusrite Saffire Yamaha P-70 Keyboard M-Audio Midisport Uno Miroslav Philharmonik , Nanosynth
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rbowser
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Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 3: Voting has resumed!
2010/08/31 18:16:27
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Hello, John - I found your post lost in the italics of the original post:
"...Sheesh... "Midnight" is ambiguous. Do you meant 12:00 at the end of August 31st or 12:00 at the end of September 1st? There's 24 hours of difference. September 1 starts at 12:00 + 1 second this evening (Tuesday, August 31). I'm hoping that is what you meant but I still won't get the information till 2 am Minnesota time.
Why West Coast? Why not London time as respect for our British friends?
John ..."
Thank you for letting me know you found the post ambiguous. I mean midnight of the 1st, at the end of that day.
The time zone was arbitrarily chosen. Why not West Coast? No matter what zone was chosen, someone in the world would feel inconvenienced. But using Pacific Time is just consistent with what we had as the deadline for the entries, and nobody complained then.
But you won't get the information as soon as you seem to be expecting. There'll be a day of David and I going over the final tallies and coming up with the distribution of prizes.
Randy B.
Sonar X3e Studio Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller Alesis i|O2 interface Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz 8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64 with dual monitors
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