rbowser
Max Output Level: -10 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6518
- Joined: 2005/07/31 14:32:34
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 20:01:46
(permalink)
John
etc etc... I just think your goal was not met.
Well, John - for someone who said on the other thread that he couldn't tolerate the thought of soiling his hands with that messy MIDI file, who doesn't like the chosen music and so couldn't stand listening to his fellow Forum member's efforts - you sure have a lot to say now that it's all over. So much input in an event you rejected! I really don't know what you think the purpose of these posts of yours are now. It seems important to you to publicly criticize something you would have no part of, and I find that peculiar. Listening guidelines - What an inappropriate thing that would have been. There were suggestions sprinkled throughout the threads of things to listen for, but David and I were smart enough to know there's no way we would ever tell anybody how to listen to music. Even if we came up with a silly check list of listening guidelines, people would have listened and voted any way they wanted - and that would have been as it should. Of course it was the production that people were voting for. The results of the voting aren't meant as some kind of gauge about the value of the software people used - that was solely a sideline interest to the original purpose, and to most people, a fun addition to what was going on. But David and I knew we weren't meeting our original goal before the prizes were added. Over and over we would re-state the point of the exercise, and over and over we'd get entries which didn't meet the guidelines. As I've said on this thread, we did the wise thing and admit that what we had started was taking on a life of its own. It ended up not as what we had planned, not what we pictured - But now it Is what it Is. It's something. It's this collection of MP3s that people can get some value out of. And all sorts of interesting topics are coming up in the wake of this thing. - So, we didn't reach our original goal. We reached a different one. Randy B.
Sonar X3e Studio Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller Alesis i|O2 interface Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz 8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64 with dual monitors
|
rbowser
Max Output Level: -10 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6518
- Joined: 2005/07/31 14:32:34
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 20:07:49
(permalink)
Glyn Barnes
Listening to mine again, after hearing all the others I am not surprised it was in one of the first batch I rejected. I certainly did not pay enough attention to the dynamics. I knew the mix was muddier than I wanted and in retrospect I probably laid on the reverb a little too thick. (though not as thick as some.) I think it also suffered as I was running out of time and I did not do my usual tests, such as listening to the mix via the TV, in the car and on a boombox.
One thing that I noticed which caused a lot of entries to join mine in the reject folder was too long an attack time on the brass, in some cases causing some of the shorter notes to hardly sound at all.
Congratulations to the winners and thanks to Dave and Randy for organising this. It was go to see my cross post on Sound on Sound resulted in at least one entry.
I have certainly taken a lot out of this, both in working on my entry and in listening to the others.
Yes, Glyn - That was super that you posted at Sound on Sound - We got an entry that way, as you pointed out. Thanks much for that - and for you nifty entry #43. Randy B.
Sonar X3e Studio Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller Alesis i|O2 interface Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz 8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64 with dual monitors
|
Susan G
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 12016
- Joined: 2003/11/05 22:49:26
- Location: Putnam County, NY
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 20:08:30
(permalink)
As per Susan's request - I tried several times to get this to come out as the Word Doc table the original is, but I can't make the formatting stick. Hopefully this will still help - A program to identify the players. Yes, that's a big help. Thanks, Randy! -Susan
2.30 gigahertz Intel Core i7-3610QM; 16 GB RAMWindows 10 x64; NI Komplete Audio 6.SONAR Platinum (Lexington) x64
|
rbowser
Max Output Level: -10 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6518
- Joined: 2005/07/31 14:32:34
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 20:13:04
(permalink)
Red Shirt Guy
Congrats to the winners; and to everyone who participated! There were so many excellent entries, it was hard to choose just three.
Very cool seeing a TTS-1 entry as a finalist, too. Just goes to show that the craftsman still counts more than the tools...
And it is kind of funny that, having let enough time go by that I didn't remember which entries were mine and thus actually judging blind, I eliminated one in the first round and one made it nearly to my top three.
The sad part of that, though, is that the one that I eliminated first was the one that, when I was creating my entries, I had thought was the better one. Which just goes to show how subjective our listening can be during the production process. A real eye-opener (or is it ear-opener?) for me that was.
Thanks again Bitflipper and Randy for hosting this shindig and to everyone for participating. What a great learning experience!
Gordon.
--still trying to catch up - so many posts I want to respond to! Gordon, you were an outstanding participant in this. Your entries, 71 and 16 (did I miss any?) were very good. Listening to them again, I think it's obvious that you lent more than just technique to your recordings, but soul as well. It cheers my heart to see that you and quite a few other people are glad they joined in on this and had a good time. Your thanks to Bitflipper and me is much appreciated. Randy B.
Sonar X3e Studio Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller Alesis i|O2 interface Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz 8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64 with dual monitors
|
T.S.
Max Output Level: -77 dBFS
- Total Posts : 654
- Joined: 2005/08/11 17:29:16
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 20:15:41
(permalink)
John
Goal = Hear what could be done with a common MIDI file using various libraries. Goal attained? Yep.
Can you say this with certainty? Do you know that the MIDI was the same and not edited for all the entries? After that none of the other stuff means anything.
Speaking for myself John I didn't add or change anything other than some velocities and possibly some note lengths. On the end though I did make some changes and added some notes to the percussion for the rolls to come out right. Considering how to achieve the best rolls I thought this would be alright.  T.S.
post edited by T.S. - 2010/09/03 20:16:43
|
Attomik Punk
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 19
- Joined: 2010/07/19 18:51:02
- Location: Virginia, USA
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 20:17:23
(permalink)
Thanks for the list Randy!
I see EWQL and GPO were the most represented with EWQL coming out a bit ahead.
Is the general consensus that EWQL has the best sound, variety, usability, or all of the above?
I think EWQL sounded very good, but so did GPO.
~Dan
|
lorneyb2
Max Output Level: -58.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1667
- Joined: 2007/04/26 04:02:10
- Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 20:25:43
(permalink)
John
Goal = Hear what could be done with a common MIDI file using various libraries. Goal attained? Yep.
Can you say this with certainty? Do you know that the MIDI was the same and not edited for all the entries? After that none of the other stuff means anything.
John, as much as I respect your knowledge and helpfulness in this forum, I can not for the life of me understand the level of negativity you are displaying on this topic. It was a project that Randy and Bit were generous with their time and talents to host so it was totally up to them to decide the rules. The project originated out of a question on what the capabilities of the various libraries were and what recommendations people would make to prospective purchasers of these libraries. When you look at the multiple entries most are done with different setups to demonstrate this. I had multiple entries and it would not have mattered to me if it had been reduced to 2 as I had misunderstood the regulations and the final was 3rd one was done to be in complete compliance with the regulations as subsequently explained. I submitted a further sample with a library that had not been mentioned in the list of libraries submitted. Further, most of the multiple submissions were done prior to prizes being announced and by my observations they just continued putting out different versions after they were announced. I believe my first submission was submitted on the day they were announced and it had been completed prior to the announcement. I already have all the libraries that were being offered as prizes so that was not a significant factor(bragging rights would have been nice though, LOL). John, if you can put together the perfect contest that would meet all the objectives and criteria that Randy and Bit were after (namely provide a fun method of showing what various libraries can do), I for one would welcome it, prizes or no prizes. However you didn't bother to participate at any level,(as far as I know) except to criticize what has been done. I personally feel you owe both Randy and Bit an apology. I think those of us who participated got more out of this than we expected just from the learning experience and I think it has provided us all with the realization that even the lowly "free" TTS-1 and DimPro can produce results nearly as good as the expensive libraries if you know what you are doing. I think you are feeling owly just because you didn't have the fun of participating. Put a smile on John!!
|
rbowser
Max Output Level: -10 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6518
- Joined: 2005/07/31 14:32:34
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 20:31:13
(permalink)
Answering the two new posts in one fell swoop:
T.S., the editing you did was totally within the original guidelines.
Original plan:
--No tempo change, so all entries would be exactly the same length.
--No note changes, so all entries were on the same level ground in that regard.
--Any and all other MIDI and Audio editing was encouraged, so each person could do the most they know how to do towards making their chosen instruments sound as good as possible.
--The one exception to not changing notes was that the percussion could be worked as much as one wanted as long as the original intent was left intact. Obviously the original file had machine gun quantized notes for rolls. Whatever someone could do to produce rolls which sound good with their chosen library was expected - mess the notes up, play those rolls again, use a sampled roll - whatever it took.
The way it turned out, we know entries were of varying tempi. That was most likely always a user error. Some people couldn't resist fixing the wrong notes that were in the MIDI file. The change was subtle, and didn't skew the results. If more editing was done, it was subtle enough to not be noticed by me.
But working with velocities, note lengths etc--That's all just par for the course when it comes to working with MIDI.
Dan "Attomik Punk" - EWQL costs $500, GPO costs $150. That's one important factor to consider when shopping for software. GPO fits more people's budgets. Both libraries are capable of rendering excellent results. Some people don't like working with EWQL for whatever reason, and some people are confused by GPO's use of non-standard MIDI commands. Like any programs, they both just need getting used to.
As Bitflipper pointed out earlier on this thread, the biggest factor in a recording's success lies in the expertise of the operator.
Randy B.
Sonar X3e Studio Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller Alesis i|O2 interface Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz 8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64 with dual monitors
|
Guitarpima
Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4125
- Joined: 2005/11/19 23:53:59
- Location: Terra 3
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 20:44:39
(permalink)
If this thread keeps going Randy will never a: get any work done. Or b: never get any sleep. LOL!
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
|
chckn8r1
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 19
- Joined: 2010/07/16 23:16:56
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 20:55:37
(permalink)
I can't re-iterate enough how much I admire you guys for running this. I can only imagine the amount you put your lives on hold to do this ... for no return at all.
I don't quite understand the negativity that is being expressed here by some members about some of the entries and the process itself.
Although I know you two are aware that you can't please everyone and did as much as you could to appease as many personalities as you could, I find it rather rude to see these attacks on you and all the entrants.
A little humility and more constructive, supportive criticism would go a long way for a couple folks on this thread.
{climbing off soapbox}
Regarding the tempo of my entry - I'm not in front of my DAW right now (I'm on vacation), but I'll check to see the tempo. I'm almost confident that I opened the MIDI file outright and the embedded tempo should have come in. The default tempo in Logic is 120bpm, so the calculation that you came up with would correlate to that.
That being said, I do remember that I had to do some MIDI event stripping on all the tracks - program, panning, volume, and expression I believe had to be stripped out. I can't see any of that having to affect the tempo though. I'll have to report back once I'm in front of the project again.
I'll have to pop back in to post some opinions on supporting the process some more.
Guys, again, fantastic job!
|
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
- Total Posts : 26036
- Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
- Location: Everett, WA USA
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 21:04:14
(permalink)
Wow, I step away for a couple of hours and two more pages have been added to the thread! Sorry for not pitching in, Randy. But I'm here now so you don't have to go it alone -- +1 to everything Randy said!
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
|
rbowser
Max Output Level: -10 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6518
- Joined: 2005/07/31 14:32:34
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 21:18:50
(permalink)
"...If this thread keeps going Randy will never a: get any work done. Or b: never get any sleep. LOL!..." You got that right, Robert! Good heavens - somewhere around mid-afternoon, I just stayed parked in my email trying to keep up the way I want on the thread. But it's OK, it's mostly been a pleasure, just as it was to help run this thing we all did together. Lorne, your new post is much appreciated. You made it clear how this has been a good experience for you and most of the people who joined in. Thank you. And my dear Mr. Chick, it's great to see you here again. I already knew you're on vacation, so didn't expect to see you popping up again so soon. But along with Guitarpima and lorneyb2, you've provided a much appreciated breath of positivity on the thread. You know how it is, there are always some people who are driven to throw negativity into the mix, motivated by whatever agenda seems compelling to them. I do want to add that all the people on this thread, and I mean all of them, are folks I usually enjoy interacting with, and who often make good, helpful contributions to the Sonar Forum. As to the tempo thang - it has become a major sub-topic. As you can see, we've been theorizing what went awry. It's really a small point though, that we didn't achieve a list of MP3s of exactly the same tempo. You can see that some people had a negative reaction to your faster tempo. When I first heard how fast it was, I was concerned that it would give your entry an edge by standing out as more dynamic in comparison to the others. But that's probably not the case. Opening a MIDI file directly in Sonar definitely retains all the info, like tempo - and I'm sure that's how it works in Logic also. That's interesting though that the default tempo in Logic is 120, as it is in Sonar - that does seem to be the tempo you ended up with. Stripping out the MIDI data, program changes, panning etc--I think everyone had to do that, I know I did, and you're right that doing that shouldn't have stripped out the tempo too. Well, it's a minor little mystery that you might figure out when you're back home at your computer. Thanks for the kudos, Dave. Bit and I did the best we could, and are grateful that folks like you enjoyed the ride! Randy B.
post edited by rbowser - 2010/09/03 21:22:39
Sonar X3e Studio Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller Alesis i|O2 interface Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz 8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64 with dual monitors
|
rbowser
Max Output Level: -10 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6518
- Joined: 2005/07/31 14:32:34
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 21:20:38
(permalink)
bitflipper
Wow, I step away for a couple of hours and two more pages have been added to the thread! Sorry for not pitching in, Randy. But I'm here now so you don't have to go it alone -- +1 to everything Randy said!
hehe--+1 to Everything I said? Are you sure?  Hopefully I didn't say anything that will make you take that back. I've been having fun, David, it's such an interesting thread, warts and all! Randy B.
Sonar X3e Studio Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller Alesis i|O2 interface Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz 8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64 with dual monitors
|
Guitarpima
Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4125
- Joined: 2005/11/19 23:53:59
- Location: Terra 3
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 21:22:15
(permalink)
chckn8r1
I don't quite understand the negativity that is being expressed here by some members about some of the entries and the process itself.
That's what always happens with contests. I would never have thought you would win though. While your instruments sounded really good, (imo) the blend was not near as good as others and there was far too much reverb. If you doubt my sincerity, keep in mind I could have won this thing if I had wanted to. So yes, a little upset but that's life.
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 21:30:17
(permalink)
John, as much as I respect your knowledge and helpfulness in this forum, I can not for the life of me understand the level of negativity you are displaying on this topic. I assure you I am not being negative and am very sorry if it is seen that way. Yes I am being critical but only after some things have came to light. I said nothing while it was going on. I hope that there will be a next time and if so I hope that what I am saying will be considered. To me this was a excellent first effort. If I said nothing and it was done the same way again there could be no improvement. I don't think either Randy or Bit would not want some feedback on this. I really don't want to be in this position and hate that I have these concerns. Then I do have them so what am I to do? Stay silent? Or express my thoughts and perhaps help me understand where I am off base or perhaps help create a better way to do this sort of thing. Seeing my points as being negative and not seen as being critical is very bothersome to me. BTW criticism is for pointing out the good and bad in things. Its a method that often helps not hurts people. Its in keeping with saying that a slow tempo can be too slow for this song. Thats being critical for the purpose of helping.
|
rbowser
Max Output Level: -10 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6518
- Joined: 2005/07/31 14:32:34
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 21:30:22
(permalink)
Bristol_Jonesey
Sorted. It must have been a permissions issue with my work pc.
Well done to the winners, and to Bit & Randy for donating their precious time to this project.
I'd like to know what anyone liked (or disliked) about my entry.
I certainly didn't spend as much time as I normally would on a prject like this (work/holiday etc)
I'm also curious if anyone else was using EWQLSO Silver for their production.
Helping you out to get feedback, Colin, by mentioning that yours was entry #53. And thanks for the thanks! Randy B.
Sonar X3e Studio Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller Alesis i|O2 interface Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz 8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64 with dual monitors
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 21:33:47
(permalink)
Opening a MIDI file directly in Sonar definitely retains all the info, like tempo - and I'm sure that's how it works in Logic also. No, not so. Neither Logic nor Cubase can open a MIDI file in both a MIDI file must be imported.
|
rbowser
Max Output Level: -10 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6518
- Joined: 2005/07/31 14:32:34
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 21:38:14
(permalink)
John
John, as much as I respect your knowledge and helpfulness in this forum, I can not for the life of me understand the level of negativity you are displaying on this topic.
I assure you I am not being negative and am very sorry if it is seen that way. Yes I am being critical but only after some things have came to light. I said nothing while it was going on. I hope that there will be a next time and if so I hope that what I am saying will be considered. To me this was a excellent first effort. If I said nothing and it was done the same way again there could be no improvement. I don't think either Randy or Bit would not want some feedback on this. I really don't want to be in this position and hate that I have these concerns. Then I do have them so what am I to do? Stay silent? Or express my thoughts and perhaps help me understand where I am off base or perhaps help create a better way to do this sort of thing. Seeing my points as being negative and not seen as being critical is very bothersome to me. BTW criticism is for pointing out the good and bad in things. Its a method that often helps not hurts people. Its in keeping with saying that a slow tempo can be too slow for this song. Thats being critical for the purpose of helping.
John, you're usually one of the most helpful, and certainly one of the most tireless people on this Forum. But, my friend, today you're in bad form. You've gone off the deep end and your posts are pointless and an embarrassment. Your earlier arch rejection of this thing Bit and I put together makes you, in my opinion, the least qualified person to say anything regarding this Shootout. Go find someone else to pester. Randy B.
Sonar X3e Studio Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller Alesis i|O2 interface Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz 8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64 with dual monitors
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 21:45:55
(permalink)
rbowser
John
John, as much as I respect your knowledge and helpfulness in this forum, I can not for the life of me understand the level of negativity you are displaying on this topic. I assure you I am not being negative and am very sorry if it is seen that way. Yes I am being critical but only after some things have came to light. I said nothing while it was going on. I hope that there will be a next time and if so I hope that what I am saying will be considered. To me this was a excellent first effort. If I said nothing and it was done the same way again there could be no improvement. I don't think either Randy or Bit would not want some feedback on this. I really don't want to be in this position and hate that I have these concerns. Then I do have them so what am I to do? Stay silent? Or express my thoughts and perhaps help me understand where I am off base or perhaps help create a better way to do this sort of thing. Seeing my points as being negative and not seen as being critical is very bothersome to me. BTW criticism is for pointing out the good and bad in things. Its a method that often helps not hurts people. Its in keeping with saying that a slow tempo can be too slow for this song. Thats being critical for the purpose of helping.
John, you're usually one of the most helpful, and certainly one of the most tireless people on this Forum.
But, my friend, today you're in bad form. You've gone off the deep end and your posts are pointless and an embarrassment. Your earlier arch rejection of this thing Bit and I put together makes you, in my opinion, the least qualified person to say anything regarding this Shootout.
Go find someone else to pester.
Randy B.
Randy I am again sorry that my posts have been received this way. I guess I have no right to post on your thread any more.
|
rbowser
Max Output Level: -10 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6518
- Joined: 2005/07/31 14:32:34
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 21:46:38
(permalink)
John
Opening a MIDI file directly in Sonar definitely retains all the info, like tempo - and I'm sure that's how it works in Logic also.
No, not so. Neither Logic nor Cubase can open a MIDI file in both a MIDI file must be imported.
A helpful post! Hallelujah. So, this is yet another area where Sonar rules supreme! Interesting that you can't open MIDI files in those programs. This explains the problem Dave Chick had with the tempo. Wow--what do users of those programs do?--I guess they always need to guess what the tempo should be for files they import. Primitive! Randy B.
Sonar X3e Studio Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller Alesis i|O2 interface Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz 8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64 with dual monitors
|
rbowser
Max Output Level: -10 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6518
- Joined: 2005/07/31 14:32:34
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 21:50:21
(permalink)
"...I guess I have no right to post on your thread any more..."
lol--As if I said that. I just don't want to have to put you on ignore. If I did, I'd miss things like the tid-bit you just posted about Cubase and Logic not being able to directly open a MIDI file.
Just be cool my man. This thing we did has reached a conclusion. There'll never be an event exactly like this. And I can tell you, there won't be another one even Remotely like it with me involved. I've had sufficient fun for now!
Randy B.
Sonar X3e Studio Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller Alesis i|O2 interface Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz 8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64 with dual monitors
|
haydn12
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
- Total Posts : 322
- Joined: 2007/01/29 17:12:04
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 22:02:36
(permalink)
Randy,
Get back to beta testing! LOL
Jim
|
LpMike75
Max Output Level: -59 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1621
- Joined: 2009/10/04 11:50:50
- Location: CT
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 22:14:22
(permalink)
I'm not sticking around this thread for more, "This contest was too far beneath me to participate but I have alot to say about it now"...or "The top pics are a suprise to me because I thought they sucked, yes I am qualified to say because I COULD of won of I had wanted to..I didn't want to, but now I'm admittedly a little upset that I did not win"
I am sure most of us that submitted entries are regular working Joes who were just looking for a little challenge to improve ourselves as musicians/basement recording (lol)engineers. I personally took alot out of this experience that I can apply elsewhere in my music ventures. I'm still reading peoples notes which I thought was the highlight of this 'contest', having people post their techniques so we can all learn from each other. Isn't that one of the main goals of this forum, to learn from others and hopefully be able to offer some helpful information to someone else?
Thanks once again Randy and Dave for the mountain of patience you both have shown with this 'contest'. I bet we would get some better responses from certain people had there been simply a post/listen/feedback for each entry instead of a prize and a contest form. It's so much easier to critisize from an armchair than it is to play the game. I also realize you guys are not professional contest makers and this was your first one that was intended for fun, so hats off to you and ignore the armchair heroes. I'll be off reading other peoples notes and trying to pick up some tips for our next 'contest'!
-Mike
|
jsaras
Max Output Level: -49 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2642
- Joined: 2003/12/07 10:40:00
- Location: Pasadena, CA-The Center of the Universe!
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 22:40:04
(permalink)
@ person who wanted to hear Garritan Big Band. I just started a course on big band arranging at Pasadena City College. The first assignment was to write something for four saxophones (two altos, two tenors). The drums are EZDrummer Jazz and the bass is from Dimension Pro. I used some moderate EQ and reverb on the saxophones and I opened up the panning from the default position. This isn't going to show off what GBB can do, but it'll give you an idea of how it sounds in the hands of a novice. http://www.audiorecordingandservices.com/GBB_Satin_Doll.mp3
|
Susan G
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 12016
- Joined: 2003/11/05 22:49:26
- Location: Putnam County, NY
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 22:51:18
(permalink)
rbowser
John
Opening a MIDI file directly in Sonar definitely retains all the info, like tempo - and I'm sure that's how it works in Logic also. No, not so. Neither Logic nor Cubase can open a MIDI file in both a MIDI file must be imported.
A helpful post! Hallelujah. So, this is yet another area where Sonar rules supreme! Interesting that you can't open MIDI files in those programs. This explains the problem Dave Chick had with the tempo.
Wow--what do users of those programs do?--I guess they always need to guess what the tempo should be for files they import. Primitive!
Randy B.
I'd be surprised if there isn't some way to tell those apps to retain the MIDI file tempo info during import, but having no experience with either I can't say for sure. I do know that REAPER asks if you want to merge the source tempo data, and I don't think there's a way to tell FL Studio not to  . It's interesting that the top two winning entries were done with Logic and REAPER, respectively. I remember seeing one other REAPER entry, but I wonder how many other DAWs were represented, if any. I think it was a good choice to make it open to everyone. Oh, and I'll add my congratulations to everyone who participated, and to the winners in particular! And big thanks to Dave and Randy for organizing it and seeing it through. -Susan
2.30 gigahertz Intel Core i7-3610QM; 16 GB RAMWindows 10 x64; NI Komplete Audio 6.SONAR Platinum (Lexington) x64
|
rbowser
Max Output Level: -10 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6518
- Joined: 2005/07/31 14:32:34
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 22:56:00
(permalink)
haydn12
Randy,
Get back to beta testing! LOL
Jim
Ooops- I'm BUsted! - You're right - I still need to download the release candidate for "World."--Yikes! Randy B.
Sonar X3e Studio Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller Alesis i|O2 interface Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz 8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64 with dual monitors
|
tom1
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
- Total Posts : 559
- Joined: 2008/03/23 16:40:52
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 23:00:20
(permalink)
Is it too late to send in an entry?
Sorry, couldn't resist. I'll go away quietly.
Sonar Producer X2/ProTools/Cubase/Reaper Studio Cat 32 Gig Ram East West: Hollywood Strings/Brass/Woodwinds/Goliath Kontakt Ultimate / FabFilter Bundle / EaReverb / Maag4 / Izotope Ozone 5 / Izotope RX2 / Elastique / Waves
|
rbowser
Max Output Level: -10 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6518
- Joined: 2005/07/31 14:32:34
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 23:01:17
(permalink)
LpMike75
I'm not sticking around this thread for more, "This contest was too far beneath me to participate but I have alot to say about it now"...or "The top pics are a suprise to me because I thought they sucked, yes I am qualified to say because I COULD of won of I had wanted to..I didn't want to, but now I'm admittedly a little upset that I did not win"
I am sure most of us that submitted entries are regular working Joes who were just looking for a little challenge to improve ourselves as musicians/basement recording (lol)engineers. I personally took alot out of this experience that I can apply elsewhere in my music ventures. I'm still reading peoples notes which I thought was the highlight of this 'contest', having people post their techniques so we can all learn from each other. Isn't that one of the main goals of this forum, to learn from others and hopefully be able to offer some helpful information to someone else?
Thanks once again Randy and Dave for the mountain of patience you both have shown with this 'contest'. I bet we would get some better responses from certain people had there been simply a post/listen/feedback for each entry instead of a prize and a contest form. It's so much easier to critisize from an armchair than it is to play the game. I also realize you guys are not professional contest makers and this was your first one that was intended for fun, so hats off to you and ignore the armchair heroes. I'll be off reading other peoples notes and trying to pick up some tips for our next 'contest'!
-Mike
Mike - Have you noticed that almost any thread that gets to be this long starts verging into the toilet? It just seems to be what happens. Those quotes you paraphrased accurately were indeed some pretty outrageous contributions to this thread. But thank heavens they don't represent a very large percentage of what's been talked about here. Don't let the occasional whiff of dung drive you away. I predict this thread will continue to have good, interesting stuff on it. - but you're certainly right that the notes people included with their Shootout entries are some of the most interesting things this contest generated. Randy B.
Sonar X3e Studio Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller Alesis i|O2 interface Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz 8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64 with dual monitors
|
rbowser
Max Output Level: -10 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6518
- Joined: 2005/07/31 14:32:34
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 23:05:30
(permalink)
Susan G
I'd be surprised if there isn't some way to tell those apps to retain the MIDI file tempo info during import, but having no experience with either I can't say for sure. I'd be surprised too, Susan. It's straight forward enough in Sonar - Open the MIDI file, you get everything. And I think it's logical that if you import a file into an already existing project, that parameters like the tempo will already have been established, and so they'll take precedent over what's in the file. But how other music apps handle that sort of thing - I really don't know. Thanks for the thumbs up on the Shootout. I'm glad I jumped in when Bitflipper asked if I'd like to help out. Randy B.
Sonar X3e Studio Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller Alesis i|O2 interface Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz 8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64 with dual monitors
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re:Orchestral Shootout, Part 4: The Winners and Discussion
2010/09/03 23:08:18
(permalink)
Susan G
rbowser
John
Opening a MIDI file directly in Sonar definitely retains all the info, like tempo - and I'm sure that's how it works in Logic also. No, not so. Neither Logic nor Cubase can open a MIDI file in both a MIDI file must be imported.
A helpful post! Hallelujah. So, this is yet another area where Sonar rules supreme! Interesting that you can't open MIDI files in those programs. This explains the problem Dave Chick had with the tempo.
Wow--what do users of those programs do?--I guess they always need to guess what the tempo should be for files they import. Primitive!
Randy B.
I'd be surprised if there isn't some way to tell those apps to retain the MIDI file tempo info during import, but having no experience with either I can't say for sure. I do know that REAPER asks if you want to merge the source tempo data, and I don't think there's a way to tell FL Studio not to.
It's interesting that the top two winning entries were done with Logic and REAPER, respectively. I remember seeing one other REAPER entry, but I wonder how many other DAWs were represented, if any. I think it was a good choice to make it open to everyone.
Oh, and I'll add my congratulations to everyone who participated, and to the winners in particular! And big thanks to Dave and Randy for organizing it and seeing it through.
-Susan
I can't say what Logic will do now for sure but as of Logic 5.XX on the PC it would not import the tempo data. One had to set that up after an import. If you didn't know the tempo you had to guess. Cubase was the same. Neither one had SMF as a native file format. Only Sonar as far as I know supports SMF as a native format. I concur with the last part of your post and second the points. Which I have done all along on all the threads about this. Sorry that my other posts were taken in a spirit they were not given in.
|