agincourtdb
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RE: POLL: TESTING GAPLESS PLAYBACK
2005/07/02 06:22:20
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ORIGINAL: planist
1. What i might add is that even with "recalc .." turned off in aud.ini
there are gaps while inserting any kind of dx/vst.
I thought the recalculation of these added fx would be neglected when this
command is inserted in aud.ini.
*perk* Is there a more specific explanation of this tweak somewhere? I'm off to search the forum.... Edit... found it. switched to zero and gapping on my system is seriously less (I was getting a big ass pop and about half a second of silence before, now it's just a tiny tiny 'pip') I don't have any DSP farm cards or external hardware. Is there any reason I shouldn't keep it to =0??
post edited by agincourtdb - 2005/07/02 08:16:15
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planist
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RE: POLL: TESTING GAPLESS PLAYBACK
2005/09/27 18:09:11
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how about experiences with S4.03 and/or S5?
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VariousArtist
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RE: POLL: TESTING GAPLESS PLAYBACK
2005/09/27 19:31:19
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how about experiences with S4.03 and/or S5? BTW, S5 has two new parameters in the AUD.INI file, described as follows: GapDezipperUsec=<0-1000> (default=500)* In SONAR 5 the audio engine will now render a smooth fade in whenever audio playback is interrupted and there is a abrupt transition in gain. The purpose of doing this is to dezipper (smooth out) the gain transition due to the discontinuity. For example, if you click on the time ruler to jump to a new time location during playback, the engine will smoothly render the transition to the new gain level as a fade in. This smoothing also takes place whenever playback gapping occurs. You can control the fade in time via the GapDezipperUsec variable. This new AUD.INI variable is expressed in microseconds per dB and controls the speed of the fade in to the new gain value. ( default = 500 microseconds. i.e. the fade will take 500 microseconds per change in dB at the transition point). You may increase or shorten the time of the fade by increasing or decreasing this value. The normal legal value range for this variable is 0 to 1000 microseconds. This variable should be set in the [Wave] section. For example: [Wave]
GapDezipperUsec=500 A value of zero turns off dezippering on gapping completely. MixDezipperUsec=<0-1000> (default=50)* This variable is similar to GapDezipperUsec except that it controls how the mixer itself renders abrupt gain transitions due to envelopes in the project. This variable is expressed in microseconds per dB and controls the speed of the fade in to the new gain value (default = 50 microseconds). The normal legal value range for this variable is 0 to 1000 microseconds. This variable should be set in the [Wave] section. For example: [Wave]
MixDezipperUsec=50 * IMPORTANT: Changing the value of this variable will affect how envelopes are rendered by the mixer and may cause your mixes to sound slightly different. Setting MixDezipperUsec too low can cause clicks while rendering abrupt gain changes due to envelopes.
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Groove1962
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RE: POLL: TESTING GAPLESS PLAYBACK
2005/09/27 19:43:26
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That ad was pulled down about a week after it appeared. Sorry Ron, the guy that did the Sonar tour demo here in Las Vegas was definitely hammering home the whole "gapless" thing... we even asked him direct questions about it and it was DEFINITELY put to us in no uncertain terms that it was "not just marketing hype". So frankly we were explicitly lied to... no other way to spin it. 
post edited by Groove1962 - 2005/09/27 19:51:24
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jlgrimes
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RE: POLL: TESTING GAPLESS PLAYBACK
2005/09/27 19:49:58
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Live I hear has one of the best engines as far as gapless audio. I doubt Sonar is at that level maybe in about 5 years or so it will be.
Sonar 4.0.3 is fine for me though as far as 'GApS' are concerned. I feel there are bigger fish to fry.
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Master Chief [Cakewalk]
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RE: POLL: TESTING GAPLESS PLAYBACK
2005/09/27 19:55:47
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BTW, S5 has two new parameters in the AUD.INI file, described as follows: These variables aren't new to S5, and in fact are obsolete as of 4.0.3.
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Steve Mac
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RE: POLL: TESTING GAPLESS PLAYBACK
2005/09/27 19:59:55
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Sorry, Ron, but if Peter (Various Artist) says it's in S5, it's there!  Pete, where'd you get the information? Steve
Steve McNamara ~~ SignatureTunes Studios~~ SoundClick avatar courtesy of my son
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VariousArtist
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RE: POLL: TESTING GAPLESS PLAYBACK
2005/09/27 20:00:27
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ORIGINAL: Ron Kuper [Cakewalk]
That ad was pulled down about a week after it appeared.
GypsyJazz
Now you can't ask for more than that!
Honesty from a software develloper
Very rare indeed!!
Software developers (and I happen to be one) are usually too honest. It's the marketing people that are economical with the truth ;-) GypsyJazz
Sorry Ron, the guy that did the Sonar tour demo here in Las Vegas was definitely hammering home the whole "gapless" thing... we even asked him direct questions about it and it was DEFINITELY put to us in no uncertain terms that it was "not just marketing hype".
I was on one of those tours and I do seem to recall the marketing hype being bandied about, rather carelessly it now appears in hindsight. I'm sure the developers "back home" were cringing a bit, but such is life. I'm sure Ron/Sonar genuinely want to get this resolved, and the lengths that they seem to go to in these forums to discuss these topics is really great. But the essence of the point GypsyJazz makes still stands...I would be surprised if it was "intentional lying" though... FWIW, Sonar 5, so far, seems to have held up well to my one evening of pressing buttons on the screen randomly. Only time will tell, will tell, tell, ll....
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Master Chief [Cakewalk]
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RE: POLL: TESTING GAPLESS PLAYBACK
2005/09/27 20:01:13
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Sorry Ron, the guy that did the Sonar tour demo here in Las Vegas was definitely hammering home the whole "gapless" thing... we even asked him direct questions about it and it was DEFINITELY put to us in no uncertain terms that it was "not just marketing hype". This thread started about claims that were made in SONAR 3.1.1, where we erroneously claimed there was a gapless engine. It seems our pennance for this 2 year old mistake will never end, LOL. Are you talking about a recent tour demo, or one from back then? Nobody has replied to this thread with their actual *experiences* with 4.0.3 or 5.0. The last post until today was back in July before 4.0.3. I though 4.0.3 put an end to most of gapping complaints (?) 4.0.3 and 5 are not gapless but is light years better than anything we've ever released.
post edited by Ron Kuper [Cakewalk] - 2005/09/27 20:08:49
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VariousArtist
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RE: POLL: TESTING GAPLESS PLAYBACK
2005/09/27 20:05:43
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quote:
BTW, S5 has two new parameters in the AUD.INI file, described as follows: These variables aren't new to S5, and in fact are obsolete as of 4.0.3. But they are listed on Page 5 in the README.rtf file on the Sonar 5 DVD installation disk -- and isn't the ReadMe file the place that you place the "last minute" items that didn't make it in the manual? QUOTE (Page 5, ReadMe.rtf, Sonar 5 DVD): " Audio Performance Issues The following issues concern improving and troubleshooting audio performance in SONAR.
DeZippering (Smoothing) When Gapping" They may have been there before and, if so, I would definitely be incorrect in mentioning that they are new to Sonar 5 (it's just that I had not noticed them before). Still, they are most definitely listed in the Sonar 5 Readme file... Still, sorry if I've added to the confusion by mentioning these here...
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Master Chief [Cakewalk]
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RE: POLL: TESTING GAPLESS PLAYBACK
2005/09/27 20:17:29
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Sorry, Ron, but if Peter (Various Artist) says it's in S5, it's there! My bad, I had to double check the code. Shame on me because I actually implemented those variables. :-) The MixDezipperUsec is has been around for several releases. It actually has nothing to do with gapping. It's about smoothly ramping from one volume change to the another. The GapDezipperUsec got introduced in 4.0.2 IIRC, and I suspect it was only documented now. It's intent was, when the engine gapped more than it does now, to ramp the sound back in smoothly after an edit. However as of 4.0.3 there are very few cases where this fade-in will need to applied.
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VariousArtist
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RE: POLL: TESTING GAPLESS PLAYBACK
2005/09/27 20:29:52
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quote:
Sorry, Ron, but if Peter (Various Artist) says it's in S5, it's there!
My bad, I had to double check the code. Shame on me because I actually implemented those variables. :-)
That's okay Ron, I've been there and done that myself too!
The MixDezipperUsec is has been around for several releases. It actually has nothing to do with gapping. It's about smoothly ramping from one volume change to the another.
The GapDezipperUsec got introduced in 4.0.2 IIRC, and I suspect it was only documented now. It's intent was, when the engine gapped more than it does now, to ramp the sound back in smoothly after an edit. However as of 4.0.3 there are very few cases where this fade-in will need to applied.
FWIW, Sonar5 handled me banging on it for an evening of random and ruthless button toggling and slider, erm, sliding -- at least better than any previous version. Let's keep our fingers crossed that it stays that way. And now, way OT. I think my wife may have gone to school with, or knows one of the Cakewalk staff...Noel Borthwick's name comes to mind, but I'm not sure. It's from another part of the world, so if he went to school in the US then I'd have the wrong guy. How can I check?
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planist
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RE: POLL: TESTING GAPLESS PLAYBACK
2005/09/28 08:52:34
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Nobody has replied to this thread with their actual *experiences* with 4.0.3 or 5.0. The last post until today was back in July before 4.0.3. I though 4.0.3 put an end to most of gapping complaints (?) 4.0.3 and 5 are not gapless but is light years better than anything we've ever released Ron, right after i tested S403 i pointed out the BIG improvements in the gaping behaviour in the Feature Request Thread. Its great, so after all the "gapless" statement about S4 was almost fullfilled in 403 ;-) with an update for no money. so no complaints here.. so far im still working with S403. Im asking myself if the S5 engine is even better? p
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