losguy
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/03/25 19:47:42
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Sorry PCI latency didn't solve it for you, torrez. One thing, though... I looked back over your posts and you never said whether you examined/found/resolved any IRQ conflicts. These are even more important than PCI latency settings.
Gutting SATA for IDE is certainly one way to take care of completely stubborn system. Other succesful options for this situation:
1) Use an external USB or Firewire drive for audio, either IDE or SATA.
2) Use a USB2 or Firewire based audio interface.
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torreznor
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/03/26 05:23:31
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Actually, i did. I checked IRQs in PowerStrip and the soundcard's IRQ wasn't shared with any other device.
I didn't want solutions that would have involved "creating" external devices, my desk is crowded with stuff. The guys at the shop have been nice because my warranty period was finished but they allowed me to exchange the drives anyway.
Thanks again to all of you. And good luck!
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losguy
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/03/26 11:39:39
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Very good, torrez. Yes, if you are dealing with a shop that will take back drives on a system-build warranty, then you certainly went the cheapest, cleanest route. (Of course, you could perhaps get a bigger desk...  )
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bitman
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/03/26 13:34:18
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Mr. LosGuy,
I cannot thank you enough for this thread.
But I'll try.
Thank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank YouThank You
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losguy
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/03/26 13:43:54
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Wow bit, the columns line up almost perfectly! Oh yeah, said it once, and I'll say it again, you're welcome!
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BeachGuitar
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/03/30 05:29:11
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Hi guys. I decided to try the SATA again but with 64 bit processing. I have had really good results so far. I am using an ASUS A8V-Deluxe which is the VIA K8T800Pro chipset. Right now I am using the Promise controller with my SATA, but I have some new drives coming to try the VIA controller with RAID. I am running Windows XP-64, the beta Sonar 5 64 bit, and M-Audio's beta 64 bit drivers for the Delta 66. I am recording and playing with no crackling. The performance of the 64 bit Sonar is much better than 32 bit.
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losguy
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/03/30 09:52:12
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Wow, Beach. If this pans out for all x64, this would be great news indeed. I honestly was not looking to expect a lot of difference (yet) in this department with 64-bit, mostly because it would not really be changing the PCI hardware spec or chipset hardware per se'. On second look, however, the drivers could make a big difference, as could how the OS handles PCI IRQs. Perhaps a bottleneck has been alleviated somewhere.
Of course, the 64-bit drivers would have to be all new, even down to the chipset. I saw M-Audio was coming out with 64-bit drivers, but was figuring that 64-bit drivers for everything else would be trickling in kind of willy-nilly, at least until x64 was really launched as a non-Beta. Prodded by your post, I went over to the ASUS website and sure enough, they are providing 64-bit driver sets for several of their A64 MOBOs (at least all the ones I browsed through).
Maybe by the time I upgrade to an A64 MOBO, 64-bit drivers will be available for my lowly Terratec EWS 88D. Still waiting, though.
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BeachGuitar
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/03/30 09:58:37
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I am really encouraged. I tried so hard to get my nforce-3 chipset to buy into SATA and never could and finally gave up. This would be wonderful if we could resolve our issues with 64 bit. I am delighted that Cakewalk already has Sonar available too. My new SATA drives will be here today and tonight I will try to build up a RAID on the VIA controller and let you know how that works. So far so good on the Promise controller. Worst case I could build up the RAID on the Promise controller and forget the VIA.
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GordyR
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/04/06 20:18:05
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Beachguitar... Any chance you could provide us with a link to the new 64bit drivers for the Delta series? Failing that perhaps you would be kind enough to email them to me at gordonrankin9@btinternet.com I would be most grateful. Thanks!!
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BeachGuitar
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/04/07 05:51:12
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GordyR...I emailed them this morning. Is there an easy way to post a download on this site and if so I will post them?? MAudio gave no link, they just emailed them to me.
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GordyR
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/04/07 06:13:15
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I'm not sure about uploading to this site but this evening I'll try to find some form of hosting so I can provide a download link for the drivers you sent me. I'll report back here when I have done so.
ThanksBeachGuitar. :)
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Lliam
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/04/29 05:19:33
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Hi, I,ve been following this for a while. I have too been bogged down by the NF2/SiI3112/Delta66 pops and crackles.
PCI latencies are optimal and there are no IRQ conflicts but this doesn't solve the problem.
Not wishing to go 64 bit quite yet, has anyone had experience using the Kt880 chipset for socket A?
Asus make the A7V880 which uses the chipset. It has a SATA controller off the southbridge and doesn't appear to be hooked up to the PCI slots. This may cure my problem or make it worse, I don't want to go through all the hassle to find no benefit!!
Thanks in advance
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losguy
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/04/29 12:25:33
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Hello Lliam, Wow. All I can say is, it's about time. I had already pretty much ditched all hope that this would ever happen. Out of sheer interest, I looked up the chipset at viatech.com and found this diagram:  I must admit, this is the first I've known of this chipset. I haven't been looking in this area, partly because I my audio interface is not M-Audio, and because I have been focusing lately on AMD64 (along with the rest of the bandwagon). At this point, I'm as curious as you are if anyone has personal experience with this board/chipset for SATA audio with an M-audio interface. That's a bit of a tall order of conditions to meet, but who knows? You can always broaden your audience by cross-posting here, a "sister thread" to this one over at Sound on Sound forum. Otherwise, you have the distinct and dubious honor of being the first to try it. If you're game, you could be famous (well, around here at least). The manual for the A7V880 MOBO is pretty promising... No mention of an outboard SATA controller chip (at first glance, at least), and the only two SATA connectors are right next to the VT8237 Southbridge. Also, no IRQ assignment shows up in the PCI table for a SATA controller. Outboard controllers appear there if they exist, and if the PCI table is accurate. So, it may not be a huge gamble to try this board.
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Lliam
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/04/29 13:09:10
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Thanks for the reply..sorry for all the extra surfing it cost you!
I think I'll get the ASUS board next week and give things a go.
I know it seems a bit of a backward step in terms of the fact that socket A is almost obsolete but I can't really justify upgrading at the moment (I can't can I?)
In fact I couldn't really justify changing my PATA audio drive for the SATA spinpoint but did it anyway!
Maybe just a 3500+ 939/NF4/6600gt and another DVI LCD panel...no..no.. I...must..put...credit...card..away.....pick...up...the guitar......
Will bet back to this thread soon,
best wishes
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losguy
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/04/29 16:37:04
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ORIGINAL: Lliam
Thanks for the reply..sorry for all the extra surfing it cost you! Don't worry about that... it was fun for me because of the topic at hand. You found a new wrinkle in this whole ballgame, and I really did want to check it out. I think I'll get the ASUS board next week and give things a go. ... I know it seems a bit of a backward step in terms of the fact that socket A is almost obsolete but I can't really justify upgrading at the moment (I can't can I?) ... Maybe just a 3500+ 939/NF4/6600gt and another DVI LCD panel... no.. no.. ...must..put...credit...card..away.....pick...up...the guitar...... Just the 3500+ 939, and the MOBO to to put it in, will cost you way more than this board (tagged it at less than $70 today). But for the price, you will get a large boost in performance that you won't get by staying with AthlonXP. If you do go with the A64 939, I recommend that you wait until next month (May 2005) to get a San Diego version. It has a 1MB cache, which will give you more performance clock for clock, and the new 90nm version will give you more bang for the buck and run cooler than the current 130nm versions. Also, I don't recommend getting an NF4 MOBO, because it is PCI-E. With PCI-E you have to be careful configuring it to avoid graphics-related bottlenecks.
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Lliam
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/05/01 16:04:47
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I think the Asus option for now. If I can get the maudio working like it did before but with my SATA drive it will be worth it. A64 will have to wait.
Thanks again for the advice.
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losguy
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/05/01 18:23:29
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ORIGINAL: Lliam
I think the Asus option for now. If I can get the maudio working like it did before but with my SATA drive it will be worth it. A64 will have to wait. ... Thanks again for the advice. You're most welcome. I am truly amazed at what I can still accomplish with my "lowly" SocketA XP2500+ (albeit overclocked to 2800). If I had track freeze (yes, still on S3PE here), I would not be so quickly compelled to upgrade. Really, I'm mostly interested in lower-latency tracking, plus my son has been constantly agonizing over how bad his games play on his old eMachines Celeron 800. He & I have the whole pass-down upgrade deal pretty much figured out. It will be a long weekend of screws, clips, cables, plugs, sinks, fans, cards, drives, and various and sundry other parts. Then loading/reloading OS, drivers, and software. Should be fun.
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losguy
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/05/01 18:26:31
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P.S. Post back with your results after you get it all put together (regardless of how it turns out). It could be useful for other folks sticking with SocketA, M-Audio & SATA audio.
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Lliam
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/05/10 09:31:09
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Well swopping the moherboard took a bit longer than I planned due to my awkward water cooling arrangement. After a few leak repairs got everything up and running. I fired up SONAR4 PE and I am pleased to say that the pops and crackles have disappeared! I tried recording Audio with a latency of 2.7ms and 5.3ms with no problems. I haven't adjusted the PCI latencies yet, and as expected my 9600xt radeon is at 255! Anyway for now I can get back on with the playing and recording. Thanks for all the advice and help. Good luck with the 64bit challenge (I'll be there later!)
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losguy
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/05/10 11:06:14
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Thanks for getting back, Lliam. You have the distinction of being the first SocketA user with chipset SATA and no crackles with SATA audio (well, in this thread at least). For that accomplishment, you get this:
..\D
a hat-tip from the losguy. It's an award of selective distinction. (Search around, it's not handed out will-nilly.) And congratulations on your new machine! I only wish that this configuration was around two years ago, not just for me, but for everyone else that I could have recommended it to.
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soundtweaker
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/05/10 11:34:47
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I just noticed RME has new 64 bit drivers for the fireface 800 box. Anyone use this box? How low of latency can you get using wdm? Dan www.kineto.net
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BillW
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/05/10 12:38:08
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This thread has been an eye-opener! As I begin looking into replacing my 4 year old ABIT K7/AMD2400+ system, I am also considering at least one SATA drive. Can anybody comment on this configuration?
Asus A8V Deluxe
AMD64 3200
Two IDE drives: Maxtor Ultra16/250GB (system) and 60GB (backups)
One SATA-150: Maxtor Ultra16/250GB (using the integrated VIA controller, not the Promise controller) for audio & samples
Delta-66
Windows XP Pro (32-bit)
Thanks,
Bill
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Nathan Knight
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/05/11 15:47:07
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Somebody just pointed me to this thread as I was asking suggestions for external SATA enclosures as I'm setting up 2 DAWs right now. They said I should be leary of SATA for audio. So I read (almost) all of this thread and it was very helpful. After much deliberation and study I'm leaning towards getting (for both my DAWs) an MSI Neo2 Platinum board (NF3 socket 939) motherboard. I've read too many negative concerns about the NF4 PCI implementation that have steered me away from them. On my main DAW (running Sonar 4) I will have a Firewire Tascam FW1082 as my audio interface. Other than that I don't think I will have a single PCI device in the machine, as it has onboard Firewire. I'll use an AGP graphics card. But I wonder if the Firewire/AGP/SATA (on this board...or on this chipset) share resources? Is there anything to be concerned about?
On my 2nd DAW (for GigaStudio and soft synths) I'm gonna probably buy the same mobo, but this time I'll have a PCI Audiophile 2496 sound card (as the only PCI member in this machine). Any chances that SATA (or Firewire) will slow down the bandwidth on this system? I'm actually planning on buying the 2 external SATA enclosures for this (GigaStudio) machine so I can take the HDs with me when I need to and not have to go through the trouble of re converting all my Akai sample CDs to GigaStudio every time I upgrade computers or move. (Does this all sound good and safe?)
Thank you so much for the help!
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losguy
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/05/11 23:30:28
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ORIGINAL: Nathan Knight
...I'm leaning towards getting (for both my DAWs) an MSI Neo2 Platinum board (NF3 socket 939) motherboard. As far as I can tell, that would be a good move. Others have used that board for SATA audio with success... and with good reason. The SATA controller is integrated into the nForce3 southbridge. As I write, this very same board is on its way to me with an A64 San Diego 3700+, for which I am in quite a state of anticipation. I plan to post my configuration and results once it's up and running. (But that will have to wait until the end of the next project... closer to the end of this month.) But I wonder if the Firewire/AGP/SATA (on this board...or on this chipset) share resources? Is there anything to be concerned about? It does not appear on the PCI slot IRQ map, so I do not expect a sharing problem. Other Tascam users will have to weigh in regarding the FW chipset compatibility though. Most everyone I've seen around here has purchased a dedicated FW PCI card based on (and this is important) a TI FW chipset. On my 2nd DAW (for GigaStudio and soft synths) I'm gonna probably buy the same mobo, but this time I'll have a PCI Audiophile 2496 sound card (as the only PCI member in this machine). Any chances that SATA (or Firewire) will slow down the bandwidth on this system? I'd mainly be careful about which PCI slots you pick for the audio card and the FW card (if any). Just realize that with this board, PCI slots 2 and 5 will share an IRQ. I'm actually planning on buying the 2 external SATA enclosures for this (GigaStudio) machine so I can take the HDs with me when I need to and not have to go through the trouble of re converting all my Akai sample CDs to GigaStudio every time I upgrade computers or move. (Does this all sound good and safe?) I'd go with internal drives and use an external for transfers and backups. But that's just my preference. As a third option, you can also use removable drive bays, if they're available for SATA.
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losguy
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/05/11 23:32:43
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ORIGINAL: BillW
Asus A8V Deluxe I've heard mixed reviews on that board, enough to steer me away from it. I've also seen that the nVidia nForce3 Ultra chipset is the current best performer.
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Nathan Knight
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/05/12 02:31:45
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I'd mainly be careful about which PCI slots you pick for the audio card and the FW card (if any). Just realize that with this board, PCI slots 2 and 5 will share an IRQ. I was hoping to use the onboard Firewire...do you know if the onboard Firewire on the MSI Neo2 is integrated in the chipset?--so I wouldn't be using a PCI Firewire card. So if I'm only using 1 PCI device on the GigaStudio computer (an Audiophile 2496), which slot should I put it in?
I'd go with internal drives and use an external for transfers and backups. But that's just my preference. As a third option, you can also use removable drive bays, if they're available for SATA.
Sounds good. I guess that would be quieter, right?--are those your reasons for not recommending external enclosures? Seems all external enclosures have fans. The 2 cases I just got are Antec Sonata cases...do you know if removable drive bays would work well with those? Where can I look to find out if there are removable drive bays for SATA?
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curtis99
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/05/12 07:02:50
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Hi, I have been getting crackles whilst recording using athlon 3400 ,1 gig ram
,geforce 4 mx4000,2 maxtor 6 yo8omo s, n-force3 motherboard ga-k8nsnxp, m audio 1010. I've tried different pci slots with no luck, Will powerstrip solve my problems? Or is it best to get an Ide drive.. sorry I don't know alot about this sort of stuff.. thanks.
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reset 
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/05/12 15:26:12
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Where can I look to find out if there are removable drive bays for SATA? You're looking for a 'Mobile Rack'. They can be found many places, including the places below: AeroCooler AxionTech
post edited by reset - 2005/05/12 15:29:39
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Nathan Knight
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/05/12 19:10:07
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Thank you for the answer. Do all mobile racks have fans?--are the fans normally loud?
I'm starting to wonder if my reasons for wanting mobile racks is good enough (to put up with extra fan noise)...I don't intend to take the HDs out of the machines often, it's not like I have another studio somewhere that I'd need to swap them regularly. I'm thinking more of when it's time to upgrade the GigaStudio DAW, to not have to re-convert all my Akai sample CDs to Giga and go through that whole process again...to just take the HDs with me and move them into the new computer. Maybe mobile racks aren't necessary for that? Or are they?
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Nathan Knight
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RE: Reclaiming SATA for audio
2005/05/12 19:13:37
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On second thought, if I were to add a laptop to my studio computers, it would be nice to have an audio HD that could be swapped with the Sonar DAW and the laptop from time to time. But these mobile racks don't hook up to laptops, do they? Would a Firewire or USB drive be a better option for that? Because most laptops don't have Firewire, but they do have USB, it seems that if I buy an external HD (which I've been thinking of for some time to use with my laptop), should I get a USB external drive? Would that be as fast as a Firewire drive? My laptop doesn't have Firewire. Are there Firewire adapters for laptops that don't have Firewire?
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