Anderton

stevec
Nah, you're not the only one with that perspective...  

True! Thankfully there are still some people who know how to think rationally.

I have seen this :
Mastering with PreSonus Studio One Pro (Part 1 of 6)  ... by YOU made in 2012.
 
Why cant we expect the same from you : MASTERING WITH SONAR?
 
Regards
Snehankur

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]

irvin
Keep in mind LANDR was found to be Reaper plus a couple of plugins working as an automated 'mastering solution'. There is no 'secret sauce' or magic about LANDR. If Reaper plus a couple of plugins can do it, why not Sonar?

Hey, Reaper costs only $60, so maybe it would be cheaper and more flexible to use it instead of LANDR: you get a full tracking and mastering solution (that includes a few things Sonar does not have) for much less than sending a few tracks to LANDR.

Please stop spreading false information - repeating misinformation multiple times is not helping anyone. If you read the same thread you quoted you will see that the landr people explicitly said that was an early prototype that they used for demo purposes only. Its clear that you refuse to believe in Landr's approach despite what everyone has tried to explain to you, so why not move on and let others find out for themselves whether they find it useful or not?

This was NOT an "early prototype". This happened 2 days before release. Even the LANDR developers acknowledged the incident and subsequent report as true:
 
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-forum/927991-mixgenius-landr-3.html
 
If you have VERIFIABLE information as to how the whole thing works, I'll change my mind about it being anything more than Reaper (or some other DAW) plus a couple of plugins (what LANDR is doing is EASILY achieved by a combination of dynamic EQ and Limiter on the master channel) .
 
So, no, I'm not "spreading false information". The evidence is there for everyone to see. 
 

LANDR
We'd love to have you back, so you could maybe form a more accurate critique of LANDR. I'd love you to meet our head of machine learning (a recent PHd graduate from Queen Mary University's legendary C4dM) who would be happy to explain in detail the intelliegence driving the system, that certainly wasn't very apparent during the demo you saw.

 
As other people on that thread mentioned, there is no "machine learning" - because there is no feedback from the client, just a one-way communication (client feeds song, LANDR returns "mastered" file). 

Snehankur

Anderton
 
True! Thankfully there are still some people who know how to think rationally.

I have seen this :
Mastering with PreSonus Studio One Pro (Part 1 of 6)  ... by YOU made in 2012. Why cant we expect the same from you : MASTERING WITH SONAR?

 
Mastering with Studio One
"While it's never a good idea to master with your eyes, spectrum analyzers and meters can help pinpoint where any problems exist that you're hearing with your ears"
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og91FQ4R2Es (2:02 into the video)
 
Mastering with LANDR
 
"While it's never a good idea to master with your eyes or without your ears, spectrum analyzers and meters won't be available to help pinpoint where any problems exist."
 
But then again, LANDR is NOT about mastering with an "M" (as in "real mastering"). LANDR is about paying a fee for getting a preview of what you MIGHT get if you pay AGAIN to have your file/project/whatever mastered - this time for real.
 
At least, that's what Anderton says, flatly contradicting his bosses at Cakewalk, their own press releases and even the LANDR people themselves.
 

Anderton
Just to be clear, I would not use LANDR to master my recordings or anyone else's. I know how to master and I often do surgery, not just processing. 
 
However anyone who has spent hours generating MP3s of rough mixes for clients after a long session will see the benefits immediately. Being able to deliver something that's closer to mastered, without having to spend time mastering (even if it's a cursory job) something with a lifespan that's measured in hours or maybe a few days, is invaluable. That's why I think the people dumping on LANDR simply don't understand all the ramifications of having this tool available.

 
This is a mess. 
 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Well you have ducked me twice , here's your third chance .
 
Are you getting the results you had hoped for in this thread by taking the position you have chosen ?
 
Kenny

Beepster

irvin
The cowardly voices are rising...lol...could we ban/silence this guy? Could we just sweep this whole thing under the rug?
 
Thank God we are in the USA and I'm a registered user of Sonar, with legal rights and legal access to this forum. It's a great thing that both Cakewalk and this humble servant operate under the same constitution. I'm sure the Cakewalk guys understand this as a helpful debate where different parties will express different perspectives and will act accordingly.  
 

Good lord. Freedom of speech protects you from prosecution/persecution by the government when peacefully voicing an opinion. That's it. It does not protect you from being censored on/banned from a privately owned forum such as this.
 
It also does not protect you from the consequences of your speech by forces other than the government. For example... if someone calls you a doodyhead for... well being a doodyhead the 1st ammendment does not protect you from that. Even if a government representative called you a doodyhead I'm pretty sure you'd just have to suck it up because you aren't being subjected to legal action from the state.
 
However libel and slander are not protected forms of free speech either so put down the flag. It cannot protect you in this instance. If you are indeed making false statements about people and/or entities and those people and/or entities can prove damages incurred by your false statements you may be accountable under civil law.
 
I personally find your complete misinterpretation of 1st Ammendment rights much more insulting than anything else you've posted...
 
and I'm not even an American. lol

You're getting too deep into law...lol..it's much simpler than that: as a customer I have the right to access the tools of support that Cakewalk makes available to all its customers. That's all - nobody is talking about freedom of speech, constitutional amendments, libel, prosecution and other fancy stuff you bring up. It's about basic consumer rights.

In any case, I'm not worried about a ban: the Cakewalk people, while not in agreement with me on some fronts, have proven fair in the handling of controversy. My post was directed at the few voices desperately clamoring for some sort of action that would "silence" me. Nothing to worry about...

You're the one that brought it up, irvin. You'll notice I haven't said much of anything about your posts aside from the fact you were obfuscating the only (IMO) legitimate issue that the app has been included in the main installer. You don't seem to care about that much though. Just some weird beef about LANDR itself which you are free not to use (notice the use of the word FREE there... lol).
 
FWIW I do appreciate some of the historical data points you've presented but you are completely ignoring new data points regarding those issues and most definitely going about things in a rather... (to be delicate) indelicate manner.
 
And I guess I would have to review the TOS and legal agreements of the forum and software (which I'm not going to do) but I'm preeeeetty sure you don't have a legal right to say anything you want (even if you are a paying customer). In fact I'm quite certain that it's all worded that Cakewalk reserves the right to delete any and all comments (regardless of content) and ban any user they wish.
 
You have paid for support services though so perhaps you are confusing the forum with that part of the agreement. This forum is not a support portal though and that agreement does not extend to this forum (AFAIK).
 
Cakewalk, and the moderation staff are however extremely permissive in regards to various opinions in comparison to other forums. Especially in comparison to other company provided P2P forums such as this. I expect it's a Boston thing (being the birthplace of the American Revolution and all).
 
You, I and everyone else here have absolutely no protected legal rights to post here. We are guests and can be hoofed at any time (just like every privately owned forum on the planet). That rarely happens though.
 
So I'm sorry to say but if you are going to go on about "rights" those annoying little fancy schmancy "laws" do kind of come into play.
 
I just get a little annoyed with people who scream about their "rights" but can't even be bothered to understand what those rights actually are. People have died, been injured, imprisoned, etc to secure and guarantee those rights for you. You could at least figure out what they are before shreiking about them.
 
If you feel those rights are inadequate (a position many people hold... including myself) then unfortunately a little more action needs to be taken than yammering on about it on some obscure, tech related internet forum.
 
Kay?
 
Now back to your regularly scheduled whargarble.
 
;-)

Beepster
You're the one that brought it up, irvin. You'll notice I haven't said much of anything about your posts aside from the fact you were obfuscating the only (IMO) legitimate issue that the app has been included in the main installer. You don't seem to care about that much though. Just some weird beef about LANDR itself which you are free not to use (notice the use of the word FREE there... lol).
 
FWIW I do appreciate some of the historical data points you've presented but you are completely ignoring new data points regarding those issues and most definitely going about things in a rather... (to be delicate) indelicate manner.
 
And I guess I would have to review the TOS and legal agreements of the forum and software (which I'm not going to do) but I'm preeeeetty sure you don't have a legal right to say anything you want (even if you are a paying customer). In fact I'm quite certain that it's all worded that Cakewalk reserves the right to delete any and all comments (regardless of content) and ban any user they wish.
 
You have paid for support services though so perhaps you are confusing the forum with that part of the agreement. This forum is not a support portal though and that agreement does not extend to this forum (AFAIK).
 
Cakewalk, and the moderation staff are however extremely permissive in regards to various opinions in comparison to other forums. Especially in comparison to other company provided P2P forums such as this. I expect it's a Boston thing (being the birthplace of the American Revolution and all).
 
You, I and everyone else here have absolutely no protected legal rights to post here. We are guests and can be hoofed at any time (just like every privately owned forum on the planet). That rarely happens though.
 
So I'm sorry to say but if you are going to go on about "rights" those annoying little fancy schmancy "laws" do kind of come into play.
 
I just get a little annoyed with people who scream about their "rights" but can't even be bothered to understand what those rights actually are. People have died, been injured, imprisoned, etc to secure and guarantee those rights for you. You could at least figure out what they are before shreiking about them.
 
If you feel those rights are inadequate (a position many people hold... including myself) then unfortunately a little more action needs to be taken than yammering on about it on some obscure, tech related internet forum.
 
Kay?
 
Now back to your regularly scheduled whargarble.
 
;-)

 
you're too lawyerly for me! lol...

Snehankur

irvin

Snehankur

Anderton
 
True! Thankfully there are still some people who know how to think rationally.

I have seen this :
Mastering with PreSonus Studio One Pro (Part 1 of 6)  ... by YOU made in 2012. Why cant we expect the same from you : MASTERING WITH SONAR?

 
Mastering with Studio One
"While it's never a good idea to master with your eyes, spectrum analyzers and meters can help pinpoint where any problems exist that you're hearing with your ears"

Dear IRVIN,
I think if you have mistakenly quoted mine.
If not, then I am not sure I have understood what you have replied in reply to my quote, also I don't dare to tell you that you have not understood what I have said. You are so knowledgeable. I am thinking to leave all these DAW/VST/PLUGINs as Reverbs are not true reverb, delays are not true delays, VSTi? Drums are not drums, Strings are not strings just like Mastering through LANDR is not Mastering.
 
I am not against of inclusion of LANDR but certainly I want this to be a separate install not to be included within SONARPLT.exe as there are examples like XLN, MELODYNE etc etc.
 
Regards
Snehankur
 

Sorry if I confused you, Snehankur, I was not offering comment on your post, just referencing the video you mentioned. That said, last time I checked reverbs were reverbs and drums were drums, indeed. I just so happen to agree with Anderton that  LANDR does not offer "real Mastering" (with a capital "M" as he called it). Others are free to disagree.

irvin
you're too lawyerly for me! lol...

 
Know your rights or you risk losing them.

tenfoot
Ya know I am really on the fence with regard to Landr. I simply do not yet know enough about it to make an informed decision.  Irvin,  I sense somehow that you have made up your mind ,  so you must have a whole lot more experience with it than I do. I presume you have a Landr account as you surely could not judge anything this harshly in a public forum,  arguing with people who have a track record and credibility in this industry,  without lots of first hand experience. How about posting one of your undoubtedly brilliant compositions in two versions,  one mastered by you,  and one by Landr.  This act of generosity would give at least this one tired, confused old musician two things; more data in order to make up my own mind,  and a better idea as to whether you have the chops to back up your repeatedly expressed but as yet unsubstantiated opinion,  with which all of us are now only too familiar. 

+1

Anderton
The client chooses which of three intensities they prefer. That is feedback from the client. I suspect the characteristics of the three intensities for different genres will change over time because of this, but regardless of how they use this feedback, it is in fact feedback so saying there is none is, once again, spreading misinformation.
 

 
Ok - the client chooses one of the three intensities. Then what? LANDR magically learns what went wrong, what went right, whether the client was happy with the results, whether major or minor problems specific to that file were addressed, etc. etc.?
 
C'mon, man - you can do better than this. 
 
You keep accusing me of spreading false information - but it's clear the one trying to pull the wool over you customer's eyes is you with these desperate attempts at obfuscating the real issue: LANDR can't do mastering. 
 
You said it: LANDR can't do mastering (and I agree with you). That cat is out of the bag and you can't put it back...lol...
 
Look at your own post and how carefully you try (but ultimately fail) to 'hedge your bet': "I ...suspect'..." as in "I don't know" or "I know but I can't tell the ugly truth"
 
"Regardless of how they use this feedback" - there is no feedback!
 
Question for you: why do you consider that LANDR does not doreal mastering and why wouldn't you use it for your own material or anyone else's?
 
Why is LANDR's quality not acceptable to you but it should be acceptable to "lesser people"? Aren't they entitled to aspire to pay for and receive "real mastering"?
 
The more you grow desperate and the fact you can't let go of me (trying to switch the attention away from the real issue of LANDR not being capable of doing what it claims) makes me think something is very, very fishy...it's probably best for you to let go of this issue...you can undo the damage YOU did to LANDR and Cakewalk with your unintentionally candid post.

irvin
 
C'mon, man - you can do better than this. 
 
You keep accusing me of spreading false information - but it's clear the one trying to pull the wool over you customer's eyes is you with these desperate attempts at obfuscating the real issue: LANDR can't do mastering. 
 
You said it: LANDR can't do mastering (and I agree with you). That cat is out of the bag and you can't put it back...lol...
 
Look at your own post and how carefully you try (but ultimately fail) to 'hedge your bet': "I ...suspect'..." as in "I don't know" or "I know but I can't tell the ugly truth"
 
The more you grow desperate and the fact you can't let go of me (trying to switch the attention away from the real issue of LANDR not being capable of doing what it claims) makes me think something is very, very fishy...it's probably best for you to let go of this issue...you can undo the damage YOU did to LANDR and Cakewalk with your unintentionally candid post.
 
But you're desperately fishing for something to criticize me with....you're really desperate and it smells fishy...why are so bent out of shape over my single assertion that LANDR can't do mastering like it claims? I even agree with you on that! (you said the same thing).
 
So why the big fuss? Makes me go hmmmmmmmmmmmm...

 
I just took snippets, it isn't an entire quote
 
 
Irvin, well it is pretty obvious that you have got Anderton pegged pretty well, you have him figured out, he is the ultimate Cakewalk/Sonar apologist, that's what he does, makes excuses for both Cakewalk and Sonar, and doesn't let the truth or the facts get in his way. You are also right in that one of his greatest tactics is to turn and twist things, going off onto different tangents, muddying the water with his long drawn out boring discourses attempting to throw all off track and have the original topic forgotten about, I have seen this time and time again. One young lady who frequents these forums also called him out on it in public, explaining to him that she didn't feel like coming here anymore, and that he and his ways were the reason for it.
 
I understand what you are trying to do, but let me tell you, it is a loosing battle, because you will just be set upon by the hoards of rabid mouth frothing fanboi's, and Anderton is never wrong, and he will always have the last word even to the point of locking the thread, and then using his privileges as a mod to go back in just so he CAN have the last word.
 
There was a thread not so long ago where a new user was disagreeing with Anderton, anyway after Anderton had his way, he made a statement that this user was the same user that a week before had been posting under the username TruthBeTold, and had been dealt with. I mean he said it like it was GOSPEL, the truth according to Anderton, he knew for a fact, the proxy server the lot. Well I am here to say that what he said was not in fact true, and that this poor soul was not in fact the user TruthBeTold, I know for certain because I am TruthBeTold, and I can tell you Anderton with 110% certainty that that poor soul was NOT in fact me, so as hard is this may be for you to hear Anderton, you sir are WRONG . . . AGAIN, and you sir are full of it!!!
 
There was also another thread where someone was saying that Sonar was "Hated, despised and neglected" among other things, something along those lines. Then along came a Cakewalk person and made a big stink about how Cakewalk is and has not been neglected, which is true, but the problem is that these people are so quick to jump in at the first sign of dissent or negativity towards Cakewalk or Sonar, that they often miss the boat entirely. When I read the post in question, it was obvious to me that they were talking about people, users, hating Sonar, people, users neglecting Sonar, that is they own it, but have moved on to another DAW, and that is how I took it when I read it, not the way the Cakewalk person who had an itchy trigger finger took it, and it is true, the number of Sonar refugees you see at Studio Ones forums, Reapers forums (heck they even have a special PDF for people coming from Sonar to help ease them in because the demand was and still is so strong, see for yourself the Bitwig forums, Sonar is hemorrhaging, and hemorrhaging fast, that is a fact. These people are so jumpy,.so quick to squash any signs of negativity they often get things wrong.
 
Then you get Anderton crowing about how the Artist version of Sonar made the top 10, well it is obvious it didn't make it very high in the top 10, otherwise he would have been crowing that it came 1st, or 2nd, or 3rd, but no, just top 10. Think about it, yes there are a lot of DAW's, but really there aren't that many at the top, and crowing about coming in at the wrong end of the top 10 is a bit like crowing about how you you came 10th, but there was only 10 in the race. Hello, you actually came last lol (just an example, not saying this is fact) The sad thing is the Star of the line up, Sonar Platinum is not in the same situation.
 
Anderton also goes on about how he is this great conduit between the users and Cakewalk, and between Cakewalk and the users, like he is some kind of Switzerland lol, but come on, he works for the company that owns Cakewalk, how much do you think he is going to go against, or say anything against Cakewalk or Sonar, it's not going to happen, his hands are tied, he is compromised, sure he will tell you he has done this, said that etc, but it's all BS.
 
LANDR, LANDR is crap, absolute CRAP, I have tried it out not from within Sonar, but manually, tried all the options and it is crap. In 10 to 15 minutes tops I can get a far better, better sounding master with a few plugs or my own mastering chains without fail. Of course he has to defend LANDR even though he has said he wouldn't use it personally or for anyone else (lol, come in spinner lol) he has to defend it, he can't just come out and say it is crap, his hands are tied, he is compromised, it's as simple as that.
 
Anyway Irvin, my advice to you would be to just let it go, it's not even worth worrying about, if people can't see through Anderton by now it's there own fault. Myself, I will never return to these forums, they sicken me to the stomach, the blind following, just check out the weekly tips section, you will find the same people over and over saying "Yeah good one Craig" etc, when you can be sure that they have not had a chance to actually try it out, I could name them off by name they are so predictable, but they know who they are, they are just on auto pilot. It's just fanboi city here, never seen anything like it, just full on, the people here, as they say out in the real world, have been 'Sonared' they actually made a term to describe how things are inside these forums, how sad. It's a place where everything is roses, everything is perfect, and if it's not they don't want to know, they are happy in their ignorance, they have been using Sonar for so long they are scared to leave because of the investment of time and money, they don't realize that there IS FAR better out there, with modern code bases, not with code still hanging around from last century, modern features, so I will leave them yo their ignorance and delusion.
 
 
 

I think that everyone has the right to their own opinion as long as it is generalized to the topic at hand. Member bashing because you don't agree with what they write is not the way to go. If you have an opinion about Sonar, you can state it in a nice, calm manner and maybe get the answers you need. If the post is only about bashing companies, developers, members etc, then don't post anything at all.