tenfoot
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 08:01:21
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Zargg71
Wow! I do not know what to say at this point... Some people never grew up from the kiddie table, and want it their way or no way.
And for the person who said it was their last visit here (I cannot be bothered to mention "it" by name).. Bye, bye...
I have still to try LANDR (as I suspect is the case for more people than just me) before I give judgement.
All the best.
Oh he will be back Ken - his life would be meaningless without insulting the good and helpful folk on this forum:) Truth be told 2. - seriously dude, it's embarrassing. We all know who you are. Blind Freddy could recognise that chip on your shoulder 4 threads away. At least have the courage to dribble your ×××× under your own name rather than spinelessly hiding behind alts. It won't make you any less wrong, just slightly less sad.
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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irvin 
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 08:07:03
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TruthBeTold2
Irvin, well it is pretty obvious that you have got Anderton pegged pretty well, you have him figured out, he is the ultimate Cakewalk/Sonar apologist, that's what he does, makes excuses for both Cakewalk and Sonar, and doesn't let the truth or the facts get in his way. You are also right in that one of his greatest tactics is to turn and twist things, going off onto different tangents, muddying the water with his long drawn out boring discourses attempting to throw all off track and have the original topic forgotten about, I have seen this time and time again.
I understand what you are trying to do, but let me tell you, it is a loosing battle, because you will just be set upon by the hoards of rabid mouth frothing fanboi's, and Anderton is never wrong, and he will always have the last word even to the point of locking the thread, and then using his privileges as a mod to go back in just so he CAN have the last word.
Anderton also goes on about how he is this great conduit between the users and Cakewalk, and between Cakewalk and the users, like he is some kind of Switzerland lol, but come on, he works for the company that owns Cakewalk, how much do you think he is going to go against, or say anything against Cakewalk or Sonar, it's not going to happen, his hands are tied, he is compromised, sure he will tell you he has done this, said that etc, but it's all BS.
LANDR, LANDR is crap, absolute CRAP, I have tried it out not from within Sonar, but manually, tried all the options and it is crap. In 10 to 15 minutes tops I can get a far better, better sounding master with a few plugs or my own mastering chains without fail. Of course he has to defend LANDR even though he has said he wouldn't use it personally or for anyone else (lol, come in spinner lol) he has to defend it, he can't just come out and say it is crap, his hands are tied, he is compromised, it's as simple as that.
Anyway Irvin, my advice to you would be to just let it go, it's not even worth worrying about, if people can't see through Anderton by now it's there own fault.
Very valid points, TruthBeTold. The personal attacks are taking place (as can be seen here - in fact, some user, on another thread, just accused me of being you! rotflmao...will the Real Slim LANDR please stand up?) - but it does not matter to me: if I find a post inane or personal in nature, I just ignore it as digital noise not worth a reply. Personal attacks don't bother me because I realize the poster is usually just trying to gain favor with his superiors: by siding with the "authority" he hopes he/she will be noticed or appreciated more due to his/her "loyalty". Plenty of souls like that everywhere...lol...nothing to worry about. And yes, I do find Anderton terribly compromised (in a sad way, to be honest): he can't tell the truth and now he is desperate trying to find ways of un-doing the great damage he did when he flat out confessed he would not use LANDR for his projects or anyone else's because it can't do what it promises: mastering.
post edited by irvin - 2016/02/28 08:24:08
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Brando
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 08:23:49
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☄ Helpfulby cowboydan 2016/02/28 09:15:52
Irvin: Oh for godsakes. One of the biggest reasons that things like LANDR are included is so the cost of SONAR is lower. So that we, the users can get things like $99 upgrades. And Cake can still afford to keep its core of developers paid. All the whinging and whining and schizophrenic identity changes to try to make it seem as though you have been wronged in some way is disgraceful and ridiculous.
The answer is and always will be, for LANDR or any other tool. use it or don't. What irks me most about those who can't tolerate it ( a 100 mb add to the program, and a single menu listing which takes NO CPU cycles) is that development time would have to be expended to "fix it" to their satisfaction.
As for the pokes at Craig - he is an invaluable asset on these forums and I can't say the same about you.
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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subtlearts
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 09:08:06
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☄ Helpfulby Zargg71 2016/02/28 09:28:03
Brando
As for the pokes at Craig - he is an invaluable asset on these forums and I can't say the same about you.
Precisely. There are various reasons people might come to Craig's defense - although he's a big boy and can fight his own battles - but chief among them is probably that he regularly and fairly consistently offers tremendous value to our lives as music-makers and users of Cakewalk software. Even if you (Irvin) happen to disagree with that, I am afraid that, as Brando points out, it is absolutely not something that can be said about you. For the most part, you come off as a particularly nasty attack troll. I don't care whether you are or aren't the mysterious anonymous alternate identities that magically pop up and agree with you on your hatred of LANDR and your constant quest to undermine and attack Mr Anderton, though my instinct and my experience with people that have demonstrated clear and persistent trolling behaviour tells me that it's quite likely. However: I think you've pretty much made your point. You don't like LANDR. You definitely don't like Craig. We get it. Personally I'm very tired of seeing it over and over every time I open the forums.
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dcumpian
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 09:28:24
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☄ Helpfulby Zargg71 2016/02/28 10:03:33
irvin
This was NOT an "early prototype". This happened 2 days before release. Even the LANDR developers acknowledged the incident and subsequent report as true:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-forum/927991-mixgenius-landr-3.html
Other quotes from that same thread: "We were demoing in our test environment (reaper) where we test VST's that we create from the code we write in our API, and also benchmark against existing tools. And, as my colleague explained during the demo, because we were working in that test environment, none of the intelligence, machine learning, or self-learning aspects of the system could be accessed, and we had to simulate that part manually with our engineers, which left a lot of room for error, (and also was why trying to create a loudness matched version was a little tricky on the spot). We actually use a range of 1-7 different processors, depending on what the character of the incoming song is. These include custom variations on what would appear in most mastering studios (intelligent EQs, Compressors, Limiters, etc), + some specialized tools that help us deal with certain situations, or challenges with the upload quality. That said, our system has been up, running, and constantly learning since that visit! And we can easily now demo the full experience instead of giving you the very hacked version of it you saw that day." and: "Now, let me first say that I should be biased against this type of tech since I am the codesigner of a product intended for human mastering engineers. Furthermore, I own a mastering studio locked out by one of the legends of the industry, and happen to really love the art of mastering. I often master friends projects myself when I have the time, and it's a lot of fun for me. However, I will say this: While I have not had much experience in particular with LANDR, I am quite confident that we (the modern world) have the technical ability to create an algorithm that could have enough intelligence to analyze and process a track in a way where it could produce very good results." and: "So, while I can see that many appear to be very dismissive of this type of new tech, and some maybe even angered or threatened, consider this: If there was a system, let's just say hypothetically, that for a very small cost, could make peoples' mixes sound better.. as in.. it works very well.. why would that be bad?" and: "...if a mastering engineer truly is better than the robot system, then this mastering engineer has nothing to worry about. He/She will always work if their talent is easily displayed through their product. But what WILL get demolished is the 'mastering engineers' who cannot produce a better master than the robot system. And that's life.. if you can't cut it, you're out!" and: "Ultimately, if someone uses LANDR or any similar service and LIKES THE RESULT, then they got their money's worth. Perhaps they could have gotten a better result from a mastering engineer... perhaps that would have cost them money they didn't have... and... perhaps they would have gotten WORSE results from a mastering engineer. Human Mastering doesn't mean quality either. I've had some mastering engineers butcher my mixes, others have made them sound amazing." and: "Answering your girlfriend with anything other than "NO" when she asks if she looks fat in her new dress is dangerous. LANDR calling their process 'mastering' is not. It is mastering. Just not done by a human." Doesn't seem so black and white now does it? Regards, Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 10:52:39
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☄ Helpfulby charlyg 2016/02/28 17:09:46
I honestly wish a couple of you long winded sons of a female dog would just step up to the plate and post musical examples to back up your claims / BS .. I'm not even gonna bother to mention your names because they already have been replaced with an unmentionable word This I will tell you , If my eyes had a throat , they would throw up a little bit in their throat every time they have seen a post of yours because they are simply getting fed up of reading your one dimensional ( not even good ) arguments ... I would respect your points of views much more if you had the stones in your knickers to actually exhibit some initiative and personal creativity . Create your "own examples to back you opinion up " ... Cutting , copying and posting links to threads you your self have not created only proves to me that you do not have the capacity to take an idea or a thought from the nothingness of the ether's and replace it with a creative expression from your own unique expression of your creativity in a tangible form ... Many Creative individuals share a common trait that allows them to let the whole world see them in their creative artistic nakedness and vulnerability . What are you afraid of ? On the other hand you have only proven to me that although you were given the gift of free will , + the power to create , It has been misused and the only valid point of argument you have successfully proven to me is that your cognitive resources are severely challenged and limited .. How is it possible that you can even think for one moment that you can come here on a MUSIC forum and not get called out on the most basic flaw of your thinly veiled argument that doesn't have a leg to stand on ? Music is meant to be listened to , ( what ever your name is ) has come here to educate us fine musicians on the flaws of a Robot mastering tool Honestly for the record I'm OK with that ... The most fundamental flaw you have proven to me is rather simple ... You yourself Sir , have proven to me that you do not even posses the capacity to listen to anything anyone here has said ....  Had you exhibited an inkling of that trait I may have let you off the hook ...you haven't . In my book that means you are a difficult person to work with ... Incidentally , I hate to break this news to you Sport , regardless of what ever chops you may think you have , real or imagined .. LANDR a freaking Robot has at least taken the time to listen and offer 3 choices. How ever right or wrong the 3 choices may be ,remains to be seen At least the whole time it did whatever conversion it does it kept it's freaking mouth shut Since you don't appear to have the ability to listen , or keep your mouth shut .... It may be a good time for you to consider another line of work .... I heard The Bridge Burners Union is hiring . Say while your at it , since talk is cheap . Why don't you go over to Bob K..."s house and wash the LANDR off his truck . Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2016/02/28 11:28:18
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 11:07:27
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☄ Helpfulby stickman393 2016/02/28 12:32:00
I feel like we are losing complete control of this thread and I am not sure what to do. Most companies would have taken action but I am really trying to avoid it. We need to stop the personal attacks first and foremost. And more importantly, we should avoid posting the same view points over and over again. We have read these threads and we understand most of the points of view. LANDR is a very respectable company that is on a cool mission. I have enjoyed working with them a lot. There are all super passionate, smart people. From the tests we did in the office, we came way impressed with their technology. Of course, your results may vary. And we understand that LANDR is a polarizing topic coupled with some issues on how it gets installed. I am asking though that we tone down the talk and try to be constructive. Next month there will be another release and we'll have more stuff to talk about. If it is not clear, we do listen to customers, more than ever. And we appreciate all the criticism, good and bad. We will continue to engage with our community. But honestly, this thread is getting to the point of not being very helpful and it can be off putting to some users who just want to learn more about the new release. There is already a thread dedicated to LANDR. So I am asking that we keep it civil and constructive - and most important be kind to your fellow SONAR users. We're all in this together :)
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musicjohnnie
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 11:32:34
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THANKS Andrew,
You are completely correct. First......what other company listens to its client base. This has once again shown the down side of human nature. Usually..... Here is the product.. Take it or leave it. Maybe that's what they want. Imagine all the Music that could have been made during this time frame. We have no right to request a change to anything. We can make comment. Then move on. Fixes will come along, new trials will be available, new plugs, new sounds, new members, hopefully the good help will remain. Thanks Cake, for you are still standing beside us. The Grace you all, and Mr. A have given is to be applauded. Maybe now we can get back to what's important...... Wait for it...........MAKING MUSIC
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mettelus
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 12:07:48
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☄ Helpfulby FanCake 2016/02/28 15:41:57
Unfortunately, these threads end up descending into this quite often from both sides and totally detract from the main points which were originally made. I personally could care less about LANDR, but I do care very much care about CW's direction and the single comment made of packaging a third party program into SONAR. This release in general has been an eye opener, and as it is the last for my current year it has also made me take an objective look at the "past year in review," as it were. As that is my preference, I won't go into details of the good and the bad, but I did realize how "old school" I really am. "Good faith" with a brand only extends so far, and the reality of gapping membership for months or even years is not an issue for me as I want product in hand, not hope. A quick pass on the features forum solidified this with the reality that the core SONAR program can just as easily be purchased outright when the ones I am concerned about materialize, rather than invest in the time between now and then - and in reality lose nothing as the core program is cumulative. I do not feel CW is listening to their customers all that much TBH, which is a shame since when new users become more savvy, they are going to see the same (legacy) issues, it is only a matter of time.
post edited by mettelus - 2016/02/28 12:22:04
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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rodreb
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 12:20:24
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Wow! 12 pages now over something so tiny in the overall picture. Wow! I, personally am not inclined to use LANDR so, I chose to update without installing it. Life goes on. No big deal.
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stickman393
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 12:23:08
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☄ Helpfulby Paul P 2016/02/28 12:44:20
I have a suggestion:
1) Threads announcing a new release should be read-only to forum members. For offical cakewalk announcements only. Forumites can always start their own threads to complain or praise an aspect of the "monthly" release.
2) By all means have a second thread called "shooting the sh*t about the Yountville Release", but document that it will be locked once the Zealandia Release comes out.
...or something like that.
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Beepster
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 12:29:44
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mettelus
Unfortunately, these threads end up descending into this quite often from both sides and totally detract from the main points which were originally made. I personally could care less about LANDR, but I do care very much care about CW's direction and the single comment made of packaging a third party program into SONAR. This release in general has been an eye opener, and as it is the last for my current year it has also made me take an objective look at the "past year in review," as it were. As that is my preference, I won't go into details of the good and the bad, but I did realize how "old school" I really am.
"Good faith" with a brand only extends so far, and the reality of gapping membership for months or even years is not an issue for me as I want product in hand, not hope. A quick pass on the features forum solidified this with the reality that the core SONAR program can just as easily be purchased outright when the ones I am concerned about materialize, rather than invest in the time between now and then - and in reality lose nothing as the core program is cumulative. I do not feel CW is listening to their customers all that much TBH, which is a shame since when new users become more savvy, they are going to see the same (legacy) issues, it is only a matter of time.
Apparently the installer issue is being reviewed and our voices were heard amongst this other rabble. Don't lose faith yet. Cheers, bud.
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backwoods
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 12:34:17
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i dont get the problem. 50megs and u never use it, doesnt intrude on normal activities. crazy times...
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Paul P
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 12:38:09
(permalink)
stickman393
1) Threads announcing a new release should be read-only to forum members. For offical cakewalk announcements only. Forumites can always start their own threads to complain or praise an aspect of the "monthly" release.
A great idea. This thread could be reduced to the very first post and all would be well. As usual, Andrew's comments are a breath of sanity. The price to pay for receptiveness and tolerance is that they will be at times abused. Cakewalk's management of these forums is outstanding.
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
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jps
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 12:53:58
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kennywtelejazz
Why don't you go over to Bob K..."s house and wash the LANDR off his truck .
Kenny
Hahahaha.... good one . Made my day :-))
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FanCake
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 13:14:56
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mettelus
Unfortunately, these threads end up descending into this quite often from both sides and totally detract from the main points which were originally made. I personally could care less about LANDR, but I do care very much care about CW's direction and the single comment made of packaging a third party program into SONAR. This release in general has been an eye opener, and as it is the last for my current year it has also made me take an objective look at the "past year in review," as it were.
Agreed. It always ends up people being on one side or another whilst the real problem is overlooked. These are the points being made here. i) LANDR is great ii) LANDR is crap iii) LANDR installation is crap. I could not care less about the first two points, if you don't want LANDR try not to install it, if you like it install it. The only real issue is the half baked installation. If this is "by design" I can only think it just was not thought about for very long, or somehow LANDR suppliers insisted it should be part of the main package. Cakewalk has been gracious enough to acknowledge the issue, others seem to have completely overlooked as they probably haven't read the thread properly. Let's hope they actually do something here... Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
And we understand that LANDR is a polarizing topic coupled with some issues on how it gets installed.
These are the current issues as it now stands. # If you don't want LANDR the only way not to install is to untick the option in verbose mode, hopefully you will get there is you select the right options. As most people probably won't know about verbose mode I assume they will just install it anyway. # Next month if you forget to run verbose mode - will it install LANDR or just leave the preferences as it was last month (say if it was not installed), this is NOT CLEAR and I suspect not thought out. # If somebody installs Sonar without verbose mode, and decides to remove LANDR, if they run the installation again and deselect the option - will it uninstall? Or won't it? # Why oh why oh why didn't Cakewalk supply a separate package like Melodyne and Drum Replacer? # If Cakewalk does supply a separate package next month, how would people uninstall if they it already installed the previous month? I assume they would have to install the LANDR separate package and then remove it? PITA if so. Hopefully by default it will autoremoved it so it can be installed later via separate package, by users choice. The LANDR package has just added to the legacy mess, the main package contains legacy plugins, directx plugins, 32 bit plugins, third party plugins (inc now LANDR), instrument VST's. Please just take this all out of the main package and supply separate packages. I thought that the reason why all this stayed there is because of Cakewalk has not have had the resources to do the work, that is something I understand. Now LANDR has just been chucked in willy nilly I no longer understand or want to tolerate it. Hope Cakewalk clears up this mess next month , and my point will be distant history. Please abstract the main program into multiple packages, and please make the verbose install of the main package much simpler. I don't understand why I am prompted for a VST path that gets ignored for instance. Sonar Verbose upgrades are a bit crap anyway and reminds me of computing in the 90's. Please sort it out. Thanks for listening.
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ampfixer
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 13:36:56
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And how many alternate identities do you have FanCake?
I believe you are mistaken about what is bundled into the main Sonar package. In the CCC the plug ins are divided into different packages as are several other bundled bits. You have the option to install the core Sonar only, update everything or simply pick what you want to install/update. If there is content that you don't want to use or even see, then you can hide that component. Since LANDR is an export option from the main program it seems logical that it was put in the core download. Options to change this have been presented and I used them on my update.
Smooth sailing, no worries.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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FanCake
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 14:39:47
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ampfixer
And how many alternate identities do you have FanCake?
I believe you are mistaken about what is bundled into the main Sonar package. In the CCC the plug ins are divided into different packages as are several other bundled bits. You have the option to install the core Sonar only, update everything or simply pick what you want to install/update. If there is content that you don't want to use or even see, then you can hide that component. Since LANDR is an export option from the main program it seems logical that it was put in the core download. Options to change this have been presented and I used them on my update.
Smooth sailing, no worries.
** Since LANDR is an export option from the main program it seems logical that it was put in the core download. ** That seems rather warped logic, anybody could make exactly the same argument about Melodyne and Drum replacer. You appear think export and regionFX should be treated differently when it comes to packaging? In other words where the functionality is in the user interface should dictate where the package is installed. Well I entirely disagree, it should be what the functionality is, give users a clear choice, make installation and upgrade as simple as possible every month, avoiding package bloat and reliance on verbose mode for upgrading every month. And I was not the first person who made this point in the thread. I am obviously fully aware of the difference between a separate package with it's own installer, and a custom install within the main package. It's pretty clear if you had fully read my #bullets. I will not repeat them. Rather than question my points, which would have made for a happy debate, you would instead prefer to ignore them, counteract with your rather weak logic, and then top it with a conspiracy theory to discredit me. Well I don't have time to waste when it comes to rudeness and silliness. Go and have an argument somewhere else please. Cakewalk has already acknowledged the install issues. That's good enough for me. Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
So I am asking that we keep it civil and constructive - and most important be kind to your fellow SONAR users. We're all in this together :) I could not agree more. Roll on next month...
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groovey1
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 15:19:10
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backwoods
i dont get the problem. 50megs and u never use it, doesnt intrude on normal activities. crazy times...
Yeah, no kidding. I don't think this is any different than the SoundCloud and YouTube options - just another entry in the drop-down list. I don't remember anybody complaining about those. And in this day and age, why wouldn't Cakewalk enable integration to cloud services?
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cparmerlee
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 15:36:45
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☄ Helpfulby FanCake 2016/02/28 15:51:30
groovey1
I don't think this is any different than the SoundCloud and YouTube options -
Well, it is a little different. 1) Some people are concerned about the considerable extra download size that all users will have to accept for all releases in the future. If that were the only issue, I'd say "get over it". 2) Some people wish that this had been packaged like most other things, giving the user an easy way of not installing it. Again, seems like a really good idea, but not the end of the world either. 3) Some people are concerned that, unlike Soundcloud, it appears there is a revenue sharing model at work here. I think this is a more serious issue, more akin to selling a person's private information without permission. It would have been a lot better for Cakewalk to be up front about that, as in: "Cakewalk and Landr are partnering to bring a new mastering option to Sonar users ..." 4) Some people are concerned that the offering is not priced rationally. 5) But mostly the storm is caused by what comes across as a hard sell for a service that seems hyped beyond its actual capabilities. This food fight doesn't really do much good for anybody. My suggestion would be for Cakewalk to agree to take these concerns under consideration, perhaps with some better positions in the March release, and just put this thread to a merciful end.
DAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/F: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen2
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Elffin
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 15:40:46
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Well I'm installing Landr just to try it out.
If there are any concerns abiut it I'm sure the team that creates it will develop it further and imorove it as any sensibile and resoonsible business would do.
My only question is this.. does landr automatically detect the style of music. Since different styles have different mixing expectations i.e. Classical, rock or electronic music.
Website | SoundCloudDAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/OMOTU Ultralite mk3 OS: Windows 10 64-bit CPU: Intel I3 Clarkdale 3.2GHz Memory: 16gb Video: AMD 5700 HD Storage: 1 x WD Caviar blue 500mb, 2 x 2TB Seagate Barricudas
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Cakewalk Staff
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 16:42:04
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Hi Craig, I hear your points. cparmerlee
3) Some people are concerned that, unlike Soundcloud, it appears there is a revenue sharing model at work here. I think this is a more serious issue, more akin to selling a person's private information without permission. It would have been a lot better for Cakewalk to be up front about that, as in: "Cakewalk and Landr are partnering to bring a new mastering option to Sonar users ..."
Like this? :-) Seriously we were as careful as we could be to word our press release and the release notes to be as objective as possible, about Landr and its suggested use. People will read what they choose to read or not read. 5) But mostly the storm is caused by what comes across as a hard sell for a service that seems hyped beyond its actual capabilities. I can honestly say that we're not "hard selling" this any more than we do for any export choice. Most people who don't read about this release may not even find Landr unless they look at the export menu. The real bottom line is that any paid service that is controversial like Landr is going to have this reaction from some, no matter what we do or how we say it. The download choice was explained in other threads so I wont go into it again.
post edited by Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] - 2016/02/28 16:57:55
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cparmerlee
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 16:53:09
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
cparmerlee
3) Some people are concerned that, unlike Soundcloud, it appears there is a revenue sharing model at work here. I think this is a more serious issue, more akin to selling a person's private information without permission. It would have been a lot better for Cakewalk to be up front about that, as in: "Cakewalk and Landr are partnering to bring a new mastering option to Sonar users ..."
Like this? :-)
Yes. I did not see that, and that tone seemed to have been lost in the discussions early in this thread.
DAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/F: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen2
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Orphaned at Birth
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 18:19:32
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I think someone mentioned in this thread, or was it the other? that Studio One already had LandR, that is incorrect, it does not.
It was also either this thread or the other that someone said something like "get used to it, Studio One and Bitwig are next" meaning next to get LandR. Well that may well be so, but I wouldn't be to sure about that just yet. PreSonus approached the situation somewhat different that Cakewalk, who by all accounts stealthily slid LandR under the back door, PreSonus on the other hand let the possible intentions be known in advance and there was quite an uproar about it both publicly and privately via emails, no one wanted it, well the vast majority of those vocal on the subject wanted nothing to do with it. The latest 'official' word that I heard was that after the uproar it was being 're-evaluated' so yes it may come to Studio One, then again it may not. I for one would rather it be left out and if someone wants to use it they can do that without having it as part of the DAW or having it thrust on them. I have gave it a fair trial and to be honest I can get magnitudes better results myself. If I was still a Sonar user I would also be pi$$ed off as many are here, even more so considering how it was slipped under the back door. There is enough 'dumbing down' of things already.
Style Dials - Music Tools For Morons
LandR - Mastering For Morons
Just one more needed for the 'Moron Trifecta" (mind you the add track button as a major feature came close lol)
Studio One 3 Professional - Win10 Pro 64bit - Intel i7 - 32 GB - Heaps of Shiznits
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F I Fear Not The Hand Of ManFor There Is Nothing More He Can DoThan That Which He Has Already Done It Is He Who Should Fear Me
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cparmerlee
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 18:37:26
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Orphaned at Birth
PreSonus approached the situation somewhat different that Cakewalk,
StudioOne has a very clear line of separation between mixing and mastering. They view mixing as something one does on a single song ans mastering is something ne does on a album-wide basis. So they have distinctly different "song" and "project" modes. I haven't used that, so I can't comment intelligently. But if it is done well, I can see some value in separating these two modes. Of course, they might soon offer Landr as a feature of the project window.
DAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/F: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen2
OS: Windows 10 64-bit CPU: Haswell 4790 4.0 GHz, 4 core, 8 thread Memory: 16 GB Video: GTX-760Ti
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Anderton
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 20:10:28
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irvin
Well, Anderton, of course the results are going to be different because....get this...get this...get this...LANDR is using different plugins with different settings! lol...I can't believe this is your best attempt at a refutation! I was going to include a pre-emptive comment in case you said that, but I thought no, you really wouldn't blow your own argument out of the water by admitting that LANDR is changing parameter settings and perhaps even using different plug-ins, as determined by the needs of the music. So actually, by acknowledging that LANDR is using different plugins and different settings, and changing settings automatically, you've finally admitted that LANDR is doing things that the standard plug-ins you reference can't do. Thank you for that. To conduct a valid test, why don't you tell everyone what plugins (including settings) and DAW Lander is using nowadays? We know it was Reaper back then when they had the major fiasco right before release. That is a fact not even a full-time salesman like you can dispute.
How did you come to the brilliant conclusion that this 'test' would prove something?
Well, thank you for at least admitting it was a brilliant conclusion, but that's only because I know how to test things and unlike you, I address what people ask. To refresh your memory: You said: "If you have VERIFIABLE information as to how the whole thing works" LANDR claims it works by making decisions of what processing to apply, based on the material to be processed. The test reveals that this statement is in fact true. HOW they do it is of course a trade secret, however... You said: "...I'll change my mind about it being anything more than Reaper (or some other DAW) plus a couple of plugins (what LANDR is doing is EASILY achieved by a combination of dynamic EQ and Limiter on the master channel)." The tests prove conclusively that the results could not be "EASILY achieved by a combination of dynamic EQ and Limiter on the master channel," because they will not change their settings by themselves to accommodate different pieces of music. You can prove it to yourself by running the three detailed tests I provided. HOWEVER, having thought about it, there is another possible explanation. LANDR could be outsourcing its services to China, and have 100 Chinese audio engineers chained to desks, who are sitting in front of a computer that has Reaper, an EQ, and a multiband limiter; they are told they will be fired if they don't analyze and apply mastering to anything that comes in within 1 minute and 30 seconds. To support this argument, when I was last in Shenzhen, there was a large building being built that said "LAND ROVER." Any idiot can see that's a deliberate attempt to fool everyone while they complete their diabolical plot to have inexperienced people obtain better sound; after their nefarious deeds are done, they will no doubt remove OVER, slide the R over next to LAND, and reveal their new corporate headquarters to the world.
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Anderton
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 20:15:55
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cparmerlee
Orphaned at Birth
PreSonus approached the situation somewhat different that Cakewalk,
StudioOne has a very clear line of separation between mixing and mastering. They view mixing as something one does on a single song ans mastering is something ne does on a album-wide basis. So they have distinctly different "song" and "project" modes. I haven't used that, so I can't comment intelligently. But if it is done well, I can see some value in separating these two modes.
Actually it's done very well, and Studio One is the only program that has taken this approach. I do consider the mastering page more of an "album assembly" page because you can't do anything on a waveform level, although there are useful, mastering-oriented processing tools as well. Unfortunately, though, it's designed more for albums and since Studio One was designed, we're in more of a "singles world." Furthermore, you still need mastering chops to use Studio One's mastering options, which leaves out a lot of people.
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Anderton
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 20:22:30
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ampfixer
And how many alternate identities do you have FanCake?
FanCake uses the same anonymizer located in Norway that's also blocklisted for hackers, spyware, botnets, etc., and currently has eight spam hosts. Orphaned at Birth is almost certainly the same guy who created Fair is Fair, TruthBTold2, and several other alts as they share the same ISP and even the same servers. Unlike the Norway anonymizer person, who could still be the same (all these trolls look alike...), they are using servers that have from 19 to 34 spam hosts. As creating Alts is against the terms of service, they will be removed. FWIW in defense of Irvin, he is NOT one of these people. I do think he may be the drummer guy who hates me too, but I'm not sure. What's most unfortunate isn't their attacking me; I have a track record and I stand by it. What's really unfortunate is that people who are actually intelligent and want to engage in a dialog, like cparmerlee, are being drowned out by a bunch of attention whores who clearly have nothing better to do with their lives than do what is basically a low-grade denial of service attack.
post edited by Anderton - 2016/02/28 21:10:57
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Anderton
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 20:43:12
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irvin
At least, that's what Anderton says, flatly contradicting his bosses at Cakewalk, their own press releases and even the LANDR people themselves.
Wrong thing #1: Cakewalk are not my bosses. I'm not even on their payroll. Wrong thing #2: LANDR's own press releases and promotional materials say they are not about replacing professional mastering engineers, but complementing them. Try this site for additional assistance.
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Anderton
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/28 20:52:56
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Orphaned at Birth
It was also either this thread or the other that someone said something like "get used to it, Studio One and Bitwig are next" meaning next to get LandR.
I was the one who said that, based on this quote from MusicRadar about LANDR: "There's a further bonus for users of Studio One 3 and Bitwig Studio: these DAWs will integrate with LANDR (supposedly seamlessly) for instant mastering of finished tracks. Integration with INgrooves, TuneCore and CD Baby is also on the agenda." Here's a link to the story. I couldn't find anything to the contrary that's more recent, but it's very possible there is updated information.
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