brconflict
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 16:19:33
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Technology has to "learn" like real engineers do. At first, the technology will lack the skills and experience. But over time, it can improve to encompass many more nuances of the skills it requires to do a job that is essentially an art.
With that said, Siri is still relatively lame when it comes to mere conversation.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 17:08:20
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THambrecht
I just sent an unready song (with headroom) to LANDR and got a completely bad result without any brillance.
Especially the result sounded mushy. LANDR sounds to me like a cheap compressor and a cheap equalizer.
The result sounds rather worse than the original.
Within 3 minutes and Universal Audio Plugins I get a brilliant balanced result which is much better than LANDR.
LANDR does not replace a Manley Massive Passive or a Fairchild Limiter.
Then maybe it's better for many people to get an TC Finalizer, which will be paid only once.
Now you have my interest . Since you have done all of that , What are the chances of you posting the before and after results for educational purposes ? ..a few small song snippets you can pull down when it has served its purpose .... Last but not least , have you tried LANDR on the file that you yourself pre Mastered with all your go to plugs ? inquiring minds would like to know how LANDR did on those files  Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2016/02/24 17:23:44
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Anderton
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 17:25:33
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Kenny, previews are free. Try some of your own files and see what happens. Just remember to start with the low intensity setting. Not everyone wants to sound like Metallica 
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gswitz
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 17:47:04
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Here's how I tried it...
1. Disabled the PC on the master bus
2. Bounced the mix to a track and selected about 60 seconds and split the clip at the range ends and faded the ends of the clip.
3. Sent it up to LANDR
4. Logged into LANDR and created an Account.
5. Logged into my email and verified my email address
6. Went back to the LANDR website and clicked through 4-5 pages of stuff
7. Listened to my track with different settings, Low Medium High
8. Measured the EBU Loudness using the RME EBU Meter and noticed Low was at -13 and high was around -8 dB.
It was interesting but I don't think I want to pay $300 a year for Wavs or $100 for MP3s.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Keano66
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 17:47:53
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The only thing I like about this version is the add new track feature (and that's hardly mindblowing.) I am very happy with the Manchester version that I've got and I think I will keep with that for a while. The mastering feature is a bit of a non starter for me. But hats off to the bakers for getting us this far - i love Sonar.
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Mosvalve
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 17:52:56
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So what is this software doing to determin what to do with a piece of music? How does it work? Does it analize simularly to how a mastering engineer would hear or listen a piece of music. I am curious to know what it actually does.
post edited by Mosvalve - 2016/02/24 18:07:42
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Beepster
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 18:22:55
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gswitz
Here's how I tried it...
1. Disabled the PC on the master bus
2. Bounced the mix to a track and selected about 60 seconds and split the clip at the range ends and faded the ends of the clip.
3. Sent it up to LANDR
4. Logged into LANDR and created an Account.
5. Logged into my email and verified my email address
6. Went back to the LANDR website and clicked through 4-5 pages of stuff
7. Listened to my track with different settings, Low Medium High
8. Measured the EBU Loudness using the RME EBU Meter and noticed Low was at -13 and high was around -8 dB.
It was interesting but I don't think I want to pay $300 a year for Wavs or $100 for MP3s.
Thanks for that. So this doesn't even spit out any useable files unless you pay? Just let's you listen to samples on their site? This should be a separate installer. If I want to check it out I'll do so. I don't want it part of the main package. Sorry if that's cranky but c'mon.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 18:23:11
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gswitz
It was interesting but I don't think I want to pay $300 a year for Wavs or $100 for MP3s.
If you aren't interested in an annual plan why not go month to month our even ala carte? They allow you to pay per master as well. See https://www.landr.com/en/pricing If you only need to master infrequently this is the most affordable way to go
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cparmerlee
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 19:09:32
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Beepster
So this doesn't even spit out any useable files unless you pay? Just let's you listen to samples on their site?
Not unless you consider two 192 kb MP3s a month as usable. Seriously, they are talking about improving the quality of the sound and then the baseline is 192 kb files -- and only 2 a month? In reality, the entry point is $108 per year. That gives you unlimited 320 kb MP3s which is at least reasonable sound quality. If one is really using 192 kb compressed files, why bother to master at all?
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gswitz
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 19:15:26
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the brilliant Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
If you aren't interested in an annual plan why not go month to month our even ala carte? They allow you to pay per master as well. See https://www.landr.com/en/pricing
If you only need to master infrequently this is the most affordable way to go
Totally, Noel, I'm with you. I'm continuing to futz with it. Smart people say check it out. I'm checking. What do I know about mastering? Nothing. I've never produced a CD that I could reliably give away, much less sell. Ha ha. But, man I bounce a lot of tracks. Probably 60+ a month. Ala carte would make sense if I worked really hard on one song that I was aiming to sell. For me, I like all the songs on the disk to be kinda similar listening volume and compression. So, my next steps included making another sample and recording the Low-Medium-High versions into Sonar. I lined up all 3 with my original 'master' so that I could use exclusive solo to switch between them. I dropped a Melda EQ which allows me to drag the audio from the various versions into the EQ for inspection. LANDR bumped between 2 and 10 kHz between 1-5 dB depending on the intensity and cut steeply above 18. Not sure if this cut is related to the Low Quality MP3 version I could audition or if it's a mastering thing. This shows me the EQ Setting - This is roughly the same for Low-Medium-High. I ignored the high cut thinking it was the low quality MP3 doing that. 23 Hz Q 1.19 Gain -5.01 3097 Hz Q 0.81 Gain +4.19 Master EBU = -14 dB - Mine Low EBU = -13.5 dB - LANDR Medium EBU = -10.2 dB - LANDR High EBU = -7.9 dB - LANDR
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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John T
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 19:17:38
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I wouldn't even say that's a baseline, really. MP3, even at 320kbps is not any kind of master format. You wouldn't press vinyl or duplicate CDs from it, nor is it what you want for streaming or download services, all of which perform best when given high quality uncompressed files.
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gustabo
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 19:20:50
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I just noticed that soft synths are color coded by x64 and x86 flavor in the Insert > Soft Synth menu.
Nice!!!!!!!!!
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AllanH
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 19:46:03
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I am really disappointed, that Cakewalk would include third-party tools such as LANDR without making it explicitly clear that they were installing a separate applications affiliated with a for-pay internet service.
I did not pay for Sonar to be presented with “Sponsored content”. I can’t decide if this is ignorance, incompetence, or if Cakewalk simply sold access to my system. If I wanted LANDR; I would install it myself.
I now realize that there is a verbose install that supposedly would have told me that I was getting a piece of foist-ware along with Sonar.
A stunt like this is how customers lose faith.
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John T
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 19:46:53
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Same for fx plugins too. There's also a different icon for vs2 and vst3, though it's fairly small and hard to read.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 19:48:20
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Anderton
Kenny, previews are free. Try some of your own files and see what happens. Just remember to start with the low intensity setting. Not everyone wants to sound like Metallica
Craig , thank you , that is actually very good advice Kenny
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charlyg
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 19:58:47
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Anderton
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 20:44:05
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☄ Helpfulby Joey Adams [Cakewalk] 2016/02/25 10:32:26
Well if there's one thing I've learned from all the back-and-forth here, it's that apparently there aren't a lot of professional mastering or mix engineers who frequent this forum. I guess they're off making money and doing projects.
MP3s are the lingua franca for giving quick demos to clients. They don't want uncompressed WAV files to put on their iPhones to listen to mixes. They don't want something with no EQ or multiband limiting, because they're going to be listening in context with other material. They want a ballpark approximation of a finished product while they listen to rough mixes to figure out what to do next.
A lot of mix engineers do not consider themselves mastering engineers, with good reason; they're different skill sets. The client can either do the supremely stupid thing of paying a mastering engineer several hundred dollars to master a mix that will never be released so they can listen to it on their smart phone, pay the mix engineer to do a mastering job at the usual rates, or with LANDR, get a ballpark approximation for very little $$ in a couple minutes while the rest of the band is fidgeting and waiting to go home.
As I've mentioned many times before, I use Studio One for album assembly, in large part because it covers the publishing options mastering engineers need - DDP export, disc image, and MP3. There are plenty of bands that publish MP3 collections or post MP3s on their web sites. With LANDR and SONAR as it is now, without paying a penny, they can take the live recording of their concert, and get a free MP3 to post on their site. Actually they can post two live recordings a month, 24 per year, for free. AND get free previews, which as gswitz has already figured out, you can record. IOW you can get many advantages from LANDR without signing up for any kind of plan. Cakewalk probably assumed that people would welcome the free features, rather than complain that they have the option to pay for more.
I suspect most of the people dissing the concept haven't read the eZine to realize the applications this opens up that a) have little, if anything, to do with traditional mastering, and b) how it can really help pro mastering engineers when dealing with clients. As to those who consider installing it bloatware - c'mon. It's a musically related tool whose potential many people will recognize over time, as many people have already. If you're smart enough to use SONAR, you're smart enough to uninstall LANDR if you don't have any use for what it offers.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 20:56:56
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I'm sitting here in my (untreated for sound ) kitchen dining room with a laptop, a 2i4, a set of monitors , and enough guitars I have access too that I can play a different one every day for the whole month of February with out a repeat . Yet , Sadly I cant trust a thing I hear when it comes to Mastering because I haven't set up my full studio in this new dwelling where I live at . I'm OK for light duty Mix's , anything more than that I will have to set up my full studio ...chances are I will not be able to sound proof and treat this place for a long while so , it's like doing doughnuts in a parking lot . I was on the fence about LANDR and the more I think about it I think I may actually benefit from the service ... The unlimited previews may be worth the leap /price of admission ... As far as what it may cost ? I would rather spend the money i have investing in my music as opposed to paying to watch online vids VIA a subscription What the Hell , I need all the help I can get ..I'll take it even if it's from a robot My short term plan is to upgrade from Manchester to Newburyport either later on tonight or after I get some sleep ... Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2016/02/24 21:27:56
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irvin 
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 21:04:28
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No amount of lipstick will embellish this Lander pig. It's a crappy tool for people who can't do the most basic of things: plop an eq/limiter combo on the master channel and call it a session. Lander is NOT for professionals.
I guess Cakewalk has to include features for everyone, though...
I have not installed the last two updates and will not renew for a while (my membership extends to October or November, not sure), maybe never. I don't like the addition of "features" that require extra payment. Those are not features - they are sales pitches, no matter how we spin them.
I'd prefer to see bug fixing and fewer, more needed features like pre roll recording. But then again, Cakewalk needs to do what it needs to do to maximize income...
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Anderton
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 21:07:32
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rcklln
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 21:08:23
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☄ Helpfulby Tom Riggs 2016/02/24 21:34:05
I think it would be best to have the LANDR installation/integration listed as a separate install item in C3.
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gswitz
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 21:12:21
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☄ Helpfulby charlyg 2016/02/24 21:32:15
I'm not sure about the bloat-ware complaint. There is no real code installed so far as I can tell to do LANDR related mastering. The only code would be to export the WAVE and upload it to LANDR which can't be much code. Then open the LANDR web page. This is not taking up 100 MB of space; I can't imagine how it could. LANDR's worth exploring. I found it painless. Who knows, maybe I'll pay them to master something. http://stabilitynetwork.blob.core.windows.net/g-tunes/20130313_Susan_01_RainingAgain.mp3 Became this... http://stabilitynetwork.blob.core.windows.net/g-tunes/20130313_Susan_01_RainingAgain_LANDR.mp3 There is very little difference in EQ on these tunes. The LANDR version is 0.8 dB louder on the EBU meter, so if you want to compare, reduce the volume of the LANDR version by 0.8. This image shows how MAutoEqualizer would set the Equalizer on the original track to try to bring it to be more like the LANDR track. 
post edited by gswitz - 2016/02/24 21:45:11
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Anderton
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 21:17:31
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irvin
I don't like the addition of "features" that require extra payment. LANDR does not require extra payment. It offers several free features. It also offers optional services that require payment. Other programs call this "in-app purchases."
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Anderton
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 21:21:08
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gswitz
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 21:28:07
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Anderton
That's exactly what I would have done - get rid of the tubbiness on the drums, and bring up the vocals. That's quite impressive. Did you use the low, medium, or high setting?
You showing off there, Craig? :-P Jk. I used the low setting. Also, for comparison, I imported my MP3 to compare with their MP3. My MP3 was 3.97 MB and theirs was 3.86, so fairly close. Did you like the song, BTW? It's a Susan Original. I helped some instrumentation (doubled her acoustic, bass, synth, lead gtr).
post edited by gswitz - 2016/02/24 21:49:08
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Geo524
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 21:53:27
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gswitz
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 22:12:09
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You know the other thing I hadn't considered, is you could prob go in on a subscription with friends.
What say you? A coffee house subscription? ;-)
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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irvin
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 22:21:42
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☄ Helpfulby Geo524 2016/02/25 22:02:46
Anderton
irvin
I don't like the addition of "features" that require extra payment.
LANDR does not require extra payment. It offers several free features. It also offers optional services that require payment. Other programs call this "in-app purchases."
Even the founder admits the free stuff is a "try out" (his own words). Everything else is a paid service. It requires EXTRA payment. Otherwise, it's a "free product" the way a brochure is a "free product". It doesn't really matter: paid or "free", it's a useless service preying on the ignorant.
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Anderton
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 22:39:54
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irvin
Even the founder admits the free stuff is a "try out" (his own words). Link? Context matters. Everything else is a paid service. It requires EXTRA payment. Yes, it stands to reason that those aspects that are not free require payment. It doesn't really matter: paid or "free", it's a useless service preying on the ignorant. Check out this post from gswitz, who backs up his statements with audio examples, analysis, and statistics.
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mudgel
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 22:46:17
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☄ Helpfulby charlyg 2016/02/25 02:30:08
I mostly make up my own mind about things but in an area where I have no experience I'm inclined to rely on the expertise of those I know in a particular field.
I have no experience with Auto mastering software so short of trying it myself I'm inclined to listen to people that have credibility in my world. When Craig C. Says that there can be benefits apart from the purely mastering side, then I'm inclined to give his opinion some weight until such time as I've examined the service for myself and form an opinion of my own.
But whether you need LANDR or not, I can't understand the negativity being dumped on Cakewalk. Som folks seem to have a real need to dump on Cakewalk no matter what. Apart from whatever discussions took place to come to some agreement about implementing a connection to LANDR, all the time Cakewalk have spent is about similar to what any of us can do to include another codec in the export audio menu by using the supplied External codec configuration tool.
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