UnderTow
Max Output Level: -37 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3848
- Joined: 2004/01/06 12:13:49
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 09:53:11
(permalink)
...wicked
@Undertow: I don't understand. Are you talking about PTHD? Because that would be a different beast altogether (although it's all under-the-hood).
PT|HD is what I am referring to, yes but keep in mind that the differences between the different versions have been greatly reduced with PT 9. Less tracks and no heat are the biggest differences. (Besides post specific features). How is PT "faster"? (serious question, no sarcasm). The only thing I can think of is that it supports ripple editing. Are their other things about it that gives it a better workflow?
Well to start the automation is much more developed but also the way you can very easily copy&paste automation. Actually I never really think of the automation when I am editing in PT unless I am doing something automation specific. In Sonar I always have to worry about what is going to happen to my automation. A simple example in PT is I can just select a section of the time line (one ore more tracks/buses/auxes/etc) and just drag it to where I want and I know that all the automation will follow without having to worry about it. That includes busses and sends etc. That is something that Sonar just can't do properly. But even just editing clips, cutting things up, moving it about etc is just much faster in PT. It is hard to explain without just using it but a big part of that is probably due to the smart tool. I see Cakewalk have copied that idea for X1 and say themselves in their X1 video: "This dramatically increases editing and arranging...". I am looking forward to testing this. The whole groups paradigm in PT is also very handy and powerful. VCAs are also cool. The way Digidesign implemented Elastic Audio is much better than AudioSnap. Etc etc. Everything just works smoother and faster. That said, I am only addressing the comment made in this thread. It doesn't pertain to X1 or PT9 (Although PT9 hasn't changed too much compared to PT|HD 8.*). I am very happy Cakewalk have put so much focus on workflow and am looking forward to testing X1! UnderTow PS: Oh! And I hope Cakewalk have addressed the issues with using a pen tablet with Sonar. That in itself would make a huge difference for me due to the way I work!
post edited by UnderTow - 2010/11/09 09:55:46
|
Zo
Max Output Level: -25 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5036
- Joined: 2008/01/25 20:49:55
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 09:53:15
(permalink)
john5193
Zo
Hey john5193 , pure elitist you call me .... :) lol
can you just tell me with you need PT , sonar ,cubase , nuendo .... don't you meet redondancy here .....
calling me ellitist without knowing me is risky ....i have a laptop for testin : osx , vsiat , xp on :
presonus studio one , logic 8, protools 8 and cubase 5 on , just to be able to compare , and i'm more than never using sonar .....i gotta master pretty all daws cause of my students , so i know what i'm talking about ....and ellitist i'm not
You are right. Upon further review of the "version" of you that you put out to the world, I retract my claim that you are elitist. Instead I believe you to be ignorant. Sorry for calling you elitist. I should have taken the time to better ascertain the proper description of your comments.
Bravo !  What some non ignorant statements ! thks for teaching us
For sale (PM me) : transfert ilok includedEventide Ultrachannel make offersSoftube Summit EQIK Neve 1081 , Neve precision Comp/LimEastWest GoshtwriterSoundforge Pro 12
|
LixiSoft
Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1017
- Joined: 2003/11/07 03:06:33
- Location: Sunny TuneTown, USA
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 09:54:18
(permalink)
For the last 3 years I have had a copy of MPowered Pro Tools running on a MAudio Transit USB interface so I can import and export Pro Tools files. I have always done my editing and mixing in SONAR with UAD cards. I view this recent PT change as a plus for me and the industry in general. Most of my work is "Live Concert mixing and recording", I mix "Live Shows" that are also recorded at the same time. For the last 2 years I have been recording my live shows to RME's DigiCheck software, (it has the lowest overhead of any DAW recording software) and saves it's files as standard Broadcast Wave Files. I then import the wave files into Sonar and mix, bounce the stem mixes down and import into Pro Tools and give them to the client (most clients want a PT Session of their work), those that don't want PT files, want wave files of their stem mixes (so I keep it in Sonar). I now have a new tool (PT9) in my box to work with, I hope X1 solves some of my complaints about past versions of Sonar, if not I'm sure PT9 will see more action (now that UAD is RTAS Native) I may start mixing in PT9 (ADC and OMF import and export was a crucial issue for me). I view all of this as a good move for everyone..........................competition is a good thing for everyone !!!
|
Zo
Max Output Level: -25 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5036
- Joined: 2008/01/25 20:49:55
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 10:00:43
(permalink)
Hey lixisoft for the use you're making on PT , why going PT 9 ?
For sale (PM me) : transfert ilok includedEventide Ultrachannel make offersSoftube Summit EQIK Neve 1081 , Neve precision Comp/LimEastWest GoshtwriterSoundforge Pro 12
|
john5193
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 19
- Joined: 2010/11/05 11:54:00
- Location: Oklahoma City, OK
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 10:00:57
(permalink)
Zo
john5193
Zo
Hey john5193 , pure elitist you call me .... :) lol
can you just tell me with you need PT , sonar ,cubase , nuendo .... don't you meet redondancy here .....
calling me ellitist without knowing me is risky ....i have a laptop for testin : osx , vsiat , xp on :
presonus studio one , logic 8, protools 8 and cubase 5 on , just to be able to compare , and i'm more than never using sonar .....i gotta master pretty all daws cause of my students , so i know what i'm talking about ....and ellitist i'm not
You are right. Upon further review of the "version" of you that you put out to the world, I retract my claim that you are elitist. Instead I believe you to be ignorant. Sorry for calling you elitist. I should have taken the time to better ascertain the proper description of your comments.
Bravo !
What some non ignorant statements ! thks for teaching us
Sorry DAW god for having a different opinion than yours. Allow me to now bow out and accept your superior knowledge. That aside, PT9 is a very stable DAW this time around and I am glad that AVID finally took the time to listen to their supporters. Hopefully when I purchase my upgrade to X1 on the 8th I will be equally happy. Now to go put PT9 through the ringer. Drum tracking a speed metal drummer with 23 mics. :D
"Honestly, once it's in the computer, it's all 1's and 0's. A DAW is just a manipulator of DATA. There is no difference of sound or quality. So why the *@&# should it matter if I use Pro-Tools when I could get a better product from a DAW that I'm better at manipulating." -Me to every client that notices I'm using SONAR instead of ProTools. AMD Phenom X4 3.2GHz ASUS M3A78 4Gb Ram ATI Saphire 4870 1GB Producer 8.5.3 ProTools 9 Nuendo 5 Cubase 5 StudioLive 16.4.2 FireStudio Mobile
|
Zo
Max Output Level: -25 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5036
- Joined: 2008/01/25 20:49:55
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 10:04:34
(permalink)
the different point of view is not a problem ( as you can imagine this is sometime the case here ...), judging a person is ....
case closed for me ....
For sale (PM me) : transfert ilok includedEventide Ultrachannel make offersSoftube Summit EQIK Neve 1081 , Neve precision Comp/LimEastWest GoshtwriterSoundforge Pro 12
|
john5193
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 19
- Joined: 2010/11/05 11:54:00
- Location: Oklahoma City, OK
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 10:06:51
(permalink)
Zo
the different point of view is not a problem ( as you can imagine this is sometime the case here ...), judging a person is ....
case closed for me ....
We are both guilty of judging on this one. So why don't we both apologize for hijacking the thread, and allow a proper discussion of PT9 vs. X1?
"Honestly, once it's in the computer, it's all 1's and 0's. A DAW is just a manipulator of DATA. There is no difference of sound or quality. So why the *@&# should it matter if I use Pro-Tools when I could get a better product from a DAW that I'm better at manipulating." -Me to every client that notices I'm using SONAR instead of ProTools. AMD Phenom X4 3.2GHz ASUS M3A78 4Gb Ram ATI Saphire 4870 1GB Producer 8.5.3 ProTools 9 Nuendo 5 Cubase 5 StudioLive 16.4.2 FireStudio Mobile
|
Zo
Max Output Level: -25 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5036
- Joined: 2008/01/25 20:49:55
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 10:13:23
(permalink)
can you just tell me when i judged you or someone else in my posts ?
(sorry for others and the thread ..)
So according to what i understand , is that, as PT is an industry standard , a lot of us using it for fast , reliable integration in industry production process...
What else ?
For sale (PM me) : transfert ilok includedEventide Ultrachannel make offersSoftube Summit EQIK Neve 1081 , Neve precision Comp/LimEastWest GoshtwriterSoundforge Pro 12
|
eratu
Max Output Level: -46.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2856
- Joined: 2007/01/27 22:08:32
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 12:14:55
(permalink)
UnderTow
The problem is that a feature list is only that. A feature list. What really counts is how the features are implemented and thus how it is to actually work with a DAW. Sonar has an impressive feature list but when it comes to implementation, Pro Tools wins hands down. I am guessing most people that say that Sonar competes (or even bests) PT don't really have that much experience working with PT. (And I don't mean LE).
I'm trying to be gentle. This is a Sonar forum. When it comes to certain types of projects, especially post projects... well, I'll leave it at that.
I have used Sonar (and CWPA) for over a decade and know it well. I have been using Pro Tools professionally for about 7 years now. Pro Tools is a much faster DAW to work in. You can edit and mix and be creative much faster in PT. The only feature right now where PT looses big time is the lack of faster than real time bounce but even that tends to not really be an issue in daily use. There are ways to work around that and not lose any time.
I agree with the rest of your post.
UnderTow
The lack of faster than real time bounce isn't too big of an issue, as you know. It's going to be annoying to people who are used to it in other DAWs, but I guess if you get used to the workarounds, it's livable. As long as there is TDM hardware, I seriously doubt there will ever be faster than real time bounce in PT. Although, I could be very, very wrong on that. PT9 threw me for a loop, so I guess anything is possible. What PT9 really represents to me is a huge philosophical change at Avid. Whether or not they can sustain that or deliver on that in the months/years to come remains to be seen. CEOs come and go. If the financial results are good, this new guy will have made his point. If not, then he, along with his philosophical changes might be thrown out the window.
|
...wicked
Max Output Level: -1.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7360
- Joined: 2003/12/18 01:00:56
- Location: Seattle
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 12:54:17
(permalink)
UnderTow
Well to start the automation is much more developed but also the way you can very easily copy&paste automation. The way Digidesign implemented Elastic Audio is much better than AudioSnap.
Yeah I always got that impression (with PT's automation). I don't know how/why SONAR's is such a pain. Adobe Illustrator has been out for, what, 14 years? The idea of a bezier curve is not earth-shattering. And why they don't drag-copy easily is also a mystery. And yes on Elastic Audio. I think PT's implementation is second only to Logic's for that. SONAR, in my eyes, falls a bit short in area, but still ahead of Reaper (whose implementation of that is TERRIBLE, if you ask me). Well, I guess we'll see where the Smart Tool lands us!
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
|
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31918
- Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 13:03:14
(permalink)
I've been having trouble understanding how the smart tool is markedly different than the current tool... which seems smart but as very small hot map targets that sometimes are hard to find on the gui.
Is it really that different than the current general purpose selection/slip edit tool?
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 13:22:56
(permalink)
A simple example in PT is I can just select a section of the time line (one ore more tracks/buses/auxes/etc) and just drag it to where I want and I know that all the automation will follow without having to worry about it. That includes busses and sends etc. That is something that Sonar just can't do properly. Tow, other than the BUS automation problem, you do know that you CAN copy automation with the clip, right? It's an option in the copy dialogue. I do it all the time without problems.
|
UnderTow
Max Output Level: -37 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3848
- Joined: 2004/01/06 12:13:49
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 13:57:45
(permalink)
ba_midi
A simple example in PT is I can just select a section of the time line (one ore more tracks/buses/auxes/etc) and just drag it to where I want and I know that all the automation will follow without having to worry about it. That includes busses and sends etc. That is something that Sonar just can't do properly.
Tow, other than the BUS automation problem, you do know that you CAN copy automation with the clip, right? It's an option in the copy dialogue. I do it all the time without problems.
Yes I am aware of that but there are still many issues. I just tried the following in a current project: CTRL-A to select everything. I then select a section of the track from the timeline. (Bar 65 to 81 to be precise). I then hit ALT-P-S to open the Slide window. Enter 8 measures. Press enter. Clips slide, automation doesn't. I can even see that the nodes of the automation in that section were selected before I did the slide operation. Still, they didn't slide. That to me is bad workflow. PS: Just to make sure, I also tried making the time selection by using the Selection Toolbar. Same problem. I see the track with automation selected. I see the nodes being selected. They don't slide when performing the slide operation. UnderTow
post edited by UnderTow - 2010/11/09 14:02:20
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 14:09:35
(permalink)
UnderTow
ba_midi
A simple example in PT is I can just select a section of the time line (one ore more tracks/buses/auxes/etc) and just drag it to where I want and I know that all the automation will follow without having to worry about it. That includes busses and sends etc. That is something that Sonar just can't do properly.
Tow, other than the BUS automation problem, you do know that you CAN copy automation with the clip, right? It's an option in the copy dialogue. I do it all the time without problems.
Yes I am aware of that but there are still many issues.
I just tried the following in a current project: CTRL-A to select everything. I then select a section of the track from the timeline. (Bar 65 to 81 to be precise). I then hit ALT-P-S to open the Slide window. Enter 8 measures. Press enter. Clips slide, automation doesn't. I can even see that the nodes of the automation in that section were selected before I did the slide operation. Still, they didn't slide. That to me is bad workflow.
PS: Just to make sure, I also tried making the time selection by using the Selection Toolbar. Same problem. I see the track with automation selected. I see the nodes being selected. They don't slide when performing the slide operation.
UnderTow
I don't use slide that often, so I'll have to check when I'm at my DAW -- but is there a dialogue option to slide controllers as well? If not, that would be a problem.
|
UnderTow
Max Output Level: -37 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3848
- Joined: 2004/01/06 12:13:49
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 14:17:24
(permalink)
ba_midi
I don't use slide that often, so I'll have to check when I'm at my DAW -- but is there a dialogue option to slide controllers as well? If not, that would be a problem.
No. The only options are "Events in Tracks" and "Markers". I have both ticked. No difference. But Billy, do realise this is just one example of what I call incomplete (or even broken) implementation. When I am working fast on large Sonar projects I really have the feeling I am working in a mine field and have to pay attention all the time or things will get skewed ore are just not possible to do without resorting to massive workarounds. When I work in PT, I am thinking of the material I am working on. I am being creative. I am not worrying about the interface. You can't see that by comparing feature lists. You can only know how different it is by extensively using both products. I hope things have improved substantially in X1. UnderTow
|
Jose7822
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10031
- Joined: 2005/11/07 18:59:54
- Location: United States
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 14:52:38
(permalink)
UnderTow
You can't see that by comparing feature lists. You can only know how different it is by extensively using both products.
I hope things have improved substantially in X1.
UnderTow
Yeap, Sonar has a comprehensive feature set that's comparable to the rest of the other DAWs. The question is, how well were those features implemented? That's where the problem arises and where I'm told Sonar falls short by a BIG margin compared to Pro Tools, Reaper and Cubase. In all honesty, I'm not that familiar with the other DAWs, but I've seen them in action in studios and I can tell they do stuff much reliably than I can in Sonar. I constantly have to double-check my edits just to make sure I didn't screw something up, where a simple ripple edit and/or having reliable editing tools would suffice. That's why I'm also hoping that the Smart Tools in Sonar X1 will address most of the existing editing issues.
Intel Q9400 2.66 GHz 8 GB of RAM @ 800 Mhz ATI Radeon HD 3650 Windows 7 Professional (SP1) x64 Cubase 6.03 x64 Sonar PE 8.5.3 x64 RME FireFace 400 Frontier Design Alpha Track Studio Logic VMK-188 Plus http://www.youtube.com/user/SonarHD
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 15:11:51
(permalink)
UnderTow
ba_midi
I don't use slide that often, so I'll have to check when I'm at my DAW -- but is there a dialogue option to slide controllers as well? If not, that would be a problem.
No. The only options are "Events in Tracks" and "Markers". I have both ticked. No difference. But Billy, do realise this is just one example of what I call incomplete (or even broken) implementation. When I am working fast on large Sonar projects I really have the feeling I am working in a mine field and have to pay attention all the time or things will get skewed ore are just not possible to do without resorting to massive workarounds. When I work in PT, I am thinking of the material I am working on. I am being creative. I am not worrying about the interface. You can't see that by comparing feature lists. You can only know how different it is by extensively using both products.
I hope things have improved substantially in X1.
UnderTow
I have to say that I agree on much of this. There ARE a number of areas where Sonar needs updating/fixing, without doubt (all the DAWs have their issues, as we know). And I have, for a long time, said that some of these things are way overdue. It is my hope that as they roll out this new major GUI update that it gives them the foundation for addressing many of the longstanding issues (like the one we're currently discussing). I do think the GUI plays a big role in this, though - and I think this may end up being a good thing. IF what little we've seen via the pre-release info gives the impression that automation IS being addressed, that would certainly be a big biggie. I have been saying regularly that we should probably lower our expectations a bit --but I think it would be somewhat ludicrous to release a major version upgrade only to find out it's "mostly" GUI and not much substance beyond. So I guess we'll see soon enough. And, with regard to this particular issue (or set of) -- I DO hope this is at least one of the major upgrades. I'll keep my wires crossed (my fingers are busy typing) :)
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 15:17:52
(permalink)
That's why I'm also hoping that the Smart Tools in Sonar X1 will address most of the existing editing issues.
I also hope these "Smart Tools" aren't just a fancy name for a weak implementation. I keep seeing the PR for "The Matrix" addition - or (ahem) "Beatscape" (which is now dead) in my mind. And we've seen CW, in the past, do these "preliminary" release of features that just fall by the wayside later on. Every company has a certain "culture" to it -- so I hope that kind of "let's see how it flies" approach is not gonna bite us all in this X1 release. Those of us who have solidly supported Sonar throughout the years deserve to get some of the things we REALLY need fixed/updated, etc. Or it will leave room for the other DAWs to seep into Sonar's user-base, even if only out of curiosity. One reason I started getting into LIVE is because of features it has that Sonar doesn't. I don't want Sonar to be Live and visa versa, but some of the "basics" necessary for "today's" approach to production are imperative now.
|
...wicked
Max Output Level: -1.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7360
- Joined: 2003/12/18 01:00:56
- Location: Seattle
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 16:16:26
(permalink)
Ugh Beatscape... that was not a "winner". Shame too, a comprehensive beat-building tool would've been awesome. They should've just bought Phatmatik.
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
|
Lanceindastudio
Max Output Level: -29 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4604
- Joined: 2004/01/22 02:28:30
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 16:20:22
(permalink)
I don't "use" pr tools, but I have LE in case I need to transfer a project-
I don't loose clients because I don't have pro tools. I say, listen to my work and then decide if they question the sonar thing, which they rarely do.
It always works ;)
Asus P8Z77-V LE PLUS Motherboard i7 3770k CPU 32 gigs RAM Presonus AudioBox iTwo Windows 10 64 bit, SONAR PLATINUM 64 bit Lots of plugins and softsynths and one shot samples, loops Gauge ECM-87, MCA SP-1, Alesis AM51 Presonus Eureka Mackie HR824's and matching subwoofer
|
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31918
- Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 16:35:42
(permalink)
"Clips slide, automation doesn't."
uuuuGGGHHHHH
I played a nice MIDI edrum kit part today and when I went to clean up with some quantize processing. I had to follow up by hand editing all of the hi hat controller data to get the hi hat *feel* back. It seems way harder than it should be.
best regards,
mike
|
Lanceindastudio
Max Output Level: -29 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4604
- Joined: 2004/01/22 02:28:30
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 16:51:43
(permalink)
you can get automation to slide on tracks (not busses) by copying the midi clip to the separated synth clip and then whenever you slide the midi slide the clip in the synth track too... the automation will go with it!
Asus P8Z77-V LE PLUS Motherboard i7 3770k CPU 32 gigs RAM Presonus AudioBox iTwo Windows 10 64 bit, SONAR PLATINUM 64 bit Lots of plugins and softsynths and one shot samples, loops Gauge ECM-87, MCA SP-1, Alesis AM51 Presonus Eureka Mackie HR824's and matching subwoofer
|
Lanceindastudio
Max Output Level: -29 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4604
- Joined: 2004/01/22 02:28:30
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 16:54:54
(permalink)
I too have to manually edit quantized material sometimes to get a feel Im looking for.
A Lot of times perfect time isn't perfect feel. Sometimes it is though, which I see you are sensitive too.
Another thing is changing the strength of quantizing, using groove quantize etc.
Finally, the best thing of course is just playing it the way you want it, which needs ultra low latency settings of course, which may require antrol shft y to disable all plugs and /or freezing some stuff-
Manual editing is never fun, but for me, it is always worth it if I need a certain feel.
mike_mccue
"Clips slide, automation doesn't."
uuuuGGGHHHHH
I played a nice MIDI edrum kit part today and when I went to clean up with some quantize processing. I had to follow up by hand editing all of the hi hat controller data to get the hi hat *feel* back. It seems way harder than it should be.
best regards,
mike
post edited by Lanceindastudio - 2010/11/09 16:56:18
Asus P8Z77-V LE PLUS Motherboard i7 3770k CPU 32 gigs RAM Presonus AudioBox iTwo Windows 10 64 bit, SONAR PLATINUM 64 bit Lots of plugins and softsynths and one shot samples, loops Gauge ECM-87, MCA SP-1, Alesis AM51 Presonus Eureka Mackie HR824's and matching subwoofer
|
kubalibre
Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
- Total Posts : 614
- Joined: 2007/07/31 18:25:06
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 17:04:39
(permalink)
Sonar vs. ProTools??
Birds vs. Guns??
I don´t get the question...
--------------------------------------------- all crash on the louspeaker
|
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31918
- Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 17:31:54
(permalink)
What I am saying is that note event start time moves with the process but the controller nodes stay in the original position... so the relationship isn't realistic anymore.
This happens each and every time I want to quantize stuff I play on my e-drum kit... because the e-drum kit supplies the hi-hat foot controller data to SONAR.
I have to hand edit the corresponding controller data to maintain a familiar relationship with the start times.
e.g. the Hi Hat foot shut note is quantized a bit earlier but the Hi Hat position controller isn't quantized and now seems very late. Until I hand edit the controller data node by node.
stuff like that.
all the best,
mike
|
4partmusic
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 67
- Joined: 2003/11/15 13:50:17
- Location: Blue Springs MO
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 17:32:37
(permalink)
There have been some pretty interesting posts here in regard to two of the major DAW's out there. I think we are going to see major changes in software usage in the next 5 years that will have both Sonar and PT busy trying to keep up.
1. The term "Professional" users and musicians will become harder to define. We have not seen the end of the distribution market changes in the recording industry and the indy market will continue to thrive I believe. Price will become a driving factor as most indy users are not going to have big bucks. They will however have the power of the internet to market themselves in a very creative way. I do have to agree with the comments here that professional is more about the output than the tools. It is what you are comfortable with. A lot of the younger generation I know are tech savy and are very collaborative with their peers. As such they can accomplish things through trial and error and information sharing. They have the luxury of time to learn the tools from good old trial and error.
2. The concept that the hobbiest and the casual user is a larger market is pretty easy to figure out. "Professional" users in the way we use the term today are that elite 1-5% of the market in their trade. While they make the big bucks for their work because the are worth it, they do not do it with an unusually larger number of software licenses. The casual user however provides the same level of income to the software manufacturer be it Cakewalk or AVID for each unit of software sold.
3. I wonder if we are ready for what some of the younger musicians are going to expect. With the introduction of Android devices and iPhones you are seeing people start to create music on the fly. I know many of you will say, yes but they can't get the same quality I can out of my powerful studio set-up. Well that might be true today but I see a time in the future where things like an iPad are simply an appliance as the technology world calls them. They are simply the window into the world of the large on -demand server that someone hosts that is tuned for music production. This whole concept of the "cloud" is going to change a lot of things. Think about where streaming video was 5 years ago compared to where we are at today.
I hope I am not too far off topic here but when I think of these things I see 4 things that I think will drive the market.
-Ease of Use
-Lower learning curves
-Light and flexible interfaces
-Lack of platform dependence
When I look at the limited look of what Cakewalk has done with the interface in X1 I wonder if they are not thinking in that direction as well.
Just some random thoughts!
4partmusic
|
brundlefly
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14250
- Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
- Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 17:41:23
(permalink)
What I am saying is that note event start time moves with the process but the controller nodes stay in the original position... so the relationship isn't realistic anymore.
I thought we went through this once before, but maybe it was another user. Unchecking "Only Notes and Lyrics" in the quantize dialog should take care of that. EDIT: Ah, yes... Mind like a rusty steel trap: http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=1956652 i guess the issue was getting the controllers to maintain their positions relative to the notes, and not be quantized toward the the grid any more or less than the notes are...?
post edited by brundlefly - 2010/11/09 17:47:03
|
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31918
- Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 18:03:40
(permalink)
I do remember asking about that... I do not remember learning there was a solution. You have just changed my life for the better. :-) Thanks VERY much!!! best regards, mike
post edited by mike_mccue - 2010/11/09 18:05:17
|
SongCraft
Max Output Level: -36 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3902
- Joined: 2007/09/19 17:54:46
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 18:05:56
(permalink)
Ba-Midi
I have to say that I agree on much of this. There ARE a number of areas where Sonar needs updating/fixing, without doubt (all the DAWs have their issues, as we know). And I have, for a long time, said that some of these things are way overdue.
Reading that including others; UnderTow, Jose and Mike's post above. I have to agree 100%. There's still a lot of refinements, enhancements, additions, that needs some serious improvements especially in areas such as;
. Matrix
. Beatscape
. Audio Snap
. Pitch Correction (inline, not V-Vocal)!
. Automation
When I first started using Sonar I noticed at the heart, the very core of that Sonar is not true stereo IMHO this is a very serious concern although somewhat addressed with the addition of 'Stereo Tools' there's been some users who have issues using more than one instance of Stereo Tools. And is Stereo Tools available in Essential X1? you would think so since Stereo imaging should be core essential!!
ProTools on the otherhand started off as an audio program aimed at professional studio to replace tape. What I noticed is that ProTools has 'immediate' excellent stereo imaging without the need for additional stereo tools.
Sonar still excels with Midi editing and this is one area I think ProTools falls behind?
Now to be fair, I think CW have done a lot of good work on redesigning the new X1 (Skylight) along with all the additional new workflows enhancements (Smart Tools, Filter Tool, FX-Chains, Additional Drag/Drop Workflows)....
but sadly no further improvements in areas a lot of people were hoping for and now that PT9 is released I can see PT getting far more attention. There's a lot of excitement buzzing around and a lot of that is about PT9.
-
|
yorolpal
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13829
- Joined: 2003/11/20 11:50:37
- Status: offline
Re:SONAR X1 vs Pro Tools 9?
2010/11/09 18:41:40
(permalink)
john5193
DonM
yorolpal
I use about 15 different packages that require iLok and other than iLoks screwy website and sketchy update methods (which once caused one of my two iLoks to just turn off) I've never had any day to day problems with them or running the software protected by them. HOWEVER, my two iLoks are plugged into my studio computer and don't travel ANYWHERE. Quite honestly there john5193, ol pal, you ARE NOT carrying a "$40 key chain" you may be carrying a "$4000 key chain" around so nonchalantly. If you lose that $40 key chain or drop it and break it...which is quite possible for ANY key chain...you are up the proverbial creek without the proverbial paddle. No foolin.
With this in mind .... does anyone use Pace's Zero Downtime? ( https://www.ilok.com/ilok-zero-downtime.html )
I have not paid for this service with my current iLok, but may. Anyone doing this.
And by the way .... I can't say enough about the sensible and customer friendly manner in which Cakewalk deals with registration and installation - please never ever change this. I have a post over at the DUC (or is it AUC now?) regarding a failed PT install that was unbelievable .... Cakefolk please stay away from this!!!!
-D
I do use the ZDT service. I have had to make use of it 4 times. I am a very clumsy person so the average life of an Ilok with me is about 5 months or so. :/ It is worth it if you are clumsy like me or just work in a non Ilok friendly environment.
You mentioned in another post that it takes about two hours to get a new iLok up and running. Does this also apply if you lose your iLok?? I can see how the ZDT would help for broken iLoks which you have to forward to the company but I was under the impression that if your iLok was lost or stolen you were just shoot out of luck. Is this not the case??
|