Helpful ReplySonar Platinum - Being retired soon ???

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Tripecac
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2016/06/02 01:32:03 (permalink)

Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ???

Please correct me if I have these dates wrong:
 
Sonar X3 was launched in September 2013.  Its last update (X3e) was March 2014.  Therefore, its "lifetime" support (in terms of updates) was effectively 6 months.
 
Sonar X2 was launched in September 2012, and last updated in March 2013 (again, 6 months).
 
Sonar X1 was launched in December 2010, and last updated February 2012 (14 months).
 
The entire "X" series lasted from December 2010 to March 2014, which was 3 years 3 months.
 
Sonar Platinum was released in January 2015.  After about 1 year 5 months Cakewalk [apparently] realized they weren't making enough money from the subscription model, so are going back to the "lifetime updates" model.  Apparently.
 
To calculate whether the $199 "lifetime deal" is worth it, we need to estimate how many more months or years Sonar Platinum will be actively developed/maintained.  It if only lasts as long as X did, then we have less than 2 years left, so $199 is not worth it (compared to $99 per year, especially for those of us who have a lot of time left on our current subscription).  I guess we just have to cross our fingers that Platinum lasts [significantly] longer than X did.
 
Of course, it would be very frustrating if we pay for Platinum's "lifetime" updates now, and then a year or two from now, Cakewalk retires Sonar Platinum and instead releases a new product (which doesn't count as an "update" and therefore requires us to pay all over again). 
 
Or. what if Cakewalk starts deliberately packaging updates with paid add-ons?  "Sorry, but to get that Piano Roll bug fixed, you have to buy the new version of Dimension Pro."  Or even "If you don't like the current piano roll, then buy our new Advanced Piano Roll plugin, for only $19.99".  In other words, micropayments.
 
What are Cakewalk's options?  Can they really afford to give us free updates every year, for 5, 10, 15, 20 years?  With no requirement for us to ever pay them again?  Hmm...
 
Until now, Cakewalk has gotten about $100 a year from me, just on Sonar upgrades.  Something tells me it's EXTREMELY unlikely that they will accept 2 years' advance payment and in return enslave themselves to us for the rest of their (and our) natural lives.
 
So how will they survive, as a company?  Will they resort to ads, embedded in parts of the Sonar UI?
 
What road will Cakewalk take?  And when?
 
What is Sonar Platinum's life expectancy?

Any guesses?

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#1
vmw
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 02:21:00 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby astaub 2016/06/02 03:11:57
I would suspect Marketing will wait until they have OSX Sonar running solidly and is comparable with Win Sonar. To help achieve this process they may need an injection of cash (assumption) like from lifetime payment. The extra cash could be used to hire in OSX programmers, outsource OSX coders, buy in code from 3rd parties for aspects of OSX version.

Once they have two operating systems running they will release Sonar "Diamond" and by having both win and OSX they can get good marketing leverage in mags and shows.
 
Just one of many applicable theories.
#2
SEVerstraten
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 02:37:55 (permalink)
I can barely imagine Cakewalk would only now start developing the OS-X version... I think they already have Mac developers on board for a while now.


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#3
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 03:11:00 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] 2016/06/02 08:02:12
The whole thing about Sonar Platinum was that it was to be the end of versions, to be updated continuously.  The model is similar to Windows 10 - supposedly the last version of Windows ever, to be updated indefinitely.  That's why it was not called X4.  So you can't compare the life expectancy of Platinum against previous versions like X2 or X3, etc.  The model is now completely different.
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vmw
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 03:12:35 (permalink)
SEVerstraten
I can barely imagine Cakewalk would only now start developing the OS-X version... I think they already have Mac developers on board for a while now.



I agree with you completely - I was just looking at it as a point of accelerating to the end point. 
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 03:40:54 (permalink)
BRuys
The whole thing about Sonar Platinum was that it was to be the end of versions, to be updated continuously.  The model is similar to Windows 10 - supposedly the last version of Windows ever, to be updated indefinitely.  That's why it was not called X4.  So you can't compare the life expectancy of Platinum against previous versions like X2 or X3, etc.  The model is now completely different.


Someone gets it 

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#6
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 04:17:49 (permalink)
Bristol_Jonesey
BRuys
The whole thing about Sonar Platinum was that it was to be the end of versions, to be updated continuously.  The model is similar to Windows 10 - supposedly the last version of Windows ever, to be updated indefinitely.  That's why it was not called X4.  So you can't compare the life expectancy of Platinum against previous versions like X2 or X3, etc.  The model is now completely different.

Someone gets it 



Except that the consumer consciousness has been conditioned to expect a newer model periodically. The market, the world, all are in a constant state of neverending change. The current philosophy will only last as long as it yields sustainable results. The moment it fails to, change will happen.
 
(edit) To clarify, Cakewalk is entirely free to offer whatever they wish however they wish. It's the consumer's choice to buy in or not. My simple point is "nothing is forever".
post edited by soens - 2016/06/03 04:08:35
#7
slartabartfast
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 04:21:12 (permalink)
BRuys
The whole thing about Sonar Platinum was that it was to be the end of versions, to be updated continuously.  The model is similar to Windows 10 - supposedly the last version of Windows ever, to be updated indefinitely.  That's why it was not called X4.  So you can't compare the life expectancy of Platinum against previous versions like X2 or X3, etc.  The model is now completely different.



The choice of Windows 10 is probably a bad one if you are trying describe an infinitely upgradeable last version ever model. Microsoft will end all support for Windows 10 October 14, 2025, and mainstream support (after which only security updates will be offered with no other new features) in just a little over four years. 
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows/lifecycle
 
That is pretty clear information from Microsoft that Win 10 is not a forever product in any way. Although it was announced a week prior to the release of Windows 10, the myth of the last Windows ever, and the promise of never having to buy a new version of Windows still persists. The OP raises a legitimate concern for anyone considering an upgrade and expecting the "core" support to last forever. A date certain for an end to the support lifecycle for this version of Sonar would be useful. 
 
post edited by slartabartfast - 2016/06/02 04:53:41
#8
SupaReels Music
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 04:43:49 (permalink)
Oh dear, yet another company rip off! I use platinum nearly day and really love it, I look forward to the updates like a kid looks forward to' what's in the big box at Christmas. So I have paid for the updates, thinking warmly of the Sonar team beavering away making changes to the software. Now I am confronted with making a payment for updates that will continue forever although given previous comments 'forever' may not be forever! As I understand it, my payment has a discount for the updates already paid for earlier although it's time sensitive so if you can't afford it yet ... well. Not happy that I have no idea how long Platinum will be supported or the way Cakewalk seem to be stringing us along! Might be time to cut and run ... PRO TOOLS? 
post edited by Song Smith Steve - 2016/06/02 05:19:51
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Lord Tim
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 06:27:11 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Song Smith Steve 2016/06/02 14:59:58
Alternatively, upgrade each year for the same price. If you were happy before with this idea, what's changed now that you only have to pay it once and get updates until whenever the product is retired? You'll at least get your money's worth. I dunno if I could say the same thing about the pricing structure of ProTools.

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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 08:33:10 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby BobF 2016/06/02 09:18:35
All that worries...
 
Rather simple logic: the first life-time offer was targeting MOST LOYAL CUSTOMERS, some are more then 20 years "with" Cakewalk products.  Does someone seriously think that CakeWalk has hidden intentional plan to rape them ALL with "fake" life-time update which they are going to drop 1 year later?
 
And in case they drop it 2 years later, the price is the same as the membership for 2 years (including current one). Still there will be horrible negative impact, but for THEM and not for YOUR wallet!

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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 08:53:47 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby FCCfirstclass 2016/06/02 12:02:44
All points considered, let's not forget we're using software from cakewalk. They've more than earned the trust I have in them. I love the new lifetime model. I signed up within minutes of receiving the email. I've been fortunate enough to get some no-brainier deals here and there in the last few years, but this lifetime deal reigns at the #1 no-brainier I got to take advantage of... Happy and surprised long time user here!

 
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#12
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 09:01:07 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby FCCfirstclass 2016/06/02 12:03:19
This has to be the most cynical notion yet posted on these forums. 
 
In order to have such a view the OP must be able to point to things Cakewalk have done to provoke this conclusion. 
 
Is there a promise that CW has made that one can point to as precedent? On what grounds is this assertion made?   

Best
John
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MarioD
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 09:31:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tenfoot 2016/06/02 23:01:36
Why all the negativity?  Why worry about something that you have no control over?  It will be what it will be!  Live with it.
 
I'll bet that some people would win a million tax free dollars/euros/whatever then **** because they would have to drive 500 miles/804 kilometers to pick up their check!
 

The reason people say the vinyl sounds better is because the music was better.
 
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SupaReels Music
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 10:11:22 (permalink)
 
Alternatively, upgrade each year for the same price. If you were happy before with this idea, what's changed now that you only have to pay it once and get updates until whenever the product is retired? You'll at least get your money's worth. I dunno if I could say the same thing about the pricing structure of ProTools
 
Good point
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...wicked
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 10:18:17 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Klaus 2016/06/02 17:41:15
This post makes so many conjectural claims that it should be fan fiction.
 
Arbitrarily thinking X(number) is the full product life-cycle they're talking about is incorrect. So, right from the start this whole "sky is falling" doomsday scenario you're cooking up is just to stir the pot. 
 
It blows my mind that some people will contort all manner of horsecrap to remain negative at all costs. Boo on you Tripecac.

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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 10:20:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Zargg71 2016/06/02 16:53:56
Song Smith Steve
Oh dear, yet another company rip off! I use platinum nearly day and really love it, I look forward to the updates like a kid looks forward to' what's in the big box at Christmas. So I have paid for the updates, thinking warmly of the Sonar team beavering away making changes to the software. Now I am confronted with making a payment for updates that will continue forever although given previous comments 'forever' may not be forever! As I understand it, my payment has a discount for the updates already paid for earlier although it's time sensitive so if you can't afford it yet ... well. Not happy that I have no idea how long Platinum will be supported or the way Cakewalk seem to be stringing us along! Might be time to cut and run ... PRO TOOLS? 


How does this announcement change the fact that you had no idea on May 31st how long Sonar would be supported?
 
The reality of the lifetime update offer is if you upgraded in 2015 and renewed in 2016, you are effectively pre-paying your 2017 annual update 6 months early to get free updates after that.  Everyone will have to evaluate for themselves if its worth it or not.

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#17
The Grim
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 10:40:47 (permalink)
John
 
Is there a promise that CW has made that one can point to as precedent? On what grounds is this assertion made?   




[playing the devils advocate] if you cared to take the time to look you could find untruths, perhaps not a broken promises as such, but certainly back flips to stated things, for example there will be no mac version for sonar to name one, and what do we have now? we all know that has been stated many times over the years, i am just stating a fact. if you are going to pretend to be squeaky clean, you best be squeaky clean. i know this will be roasted, turn inside out and flipped on it's head by the fanatics, but it is the truth none the less.
 
i am just pointing it out in relation to the apparent belief that there is no guile to be found in this company. companies are all the same, at the end of the day it is all about what is best for them, their survival first and foremost, everything else is secondary, anyone who tells you different is either deluded or flat out lying.
 
anyway, the news has broken, didn't really excite me much, very thankful for the $99 lifetime deal, the latest version seems fairly good, however not near enough to drag me from my daw of choice. now as a lifetime member i can check back every now and then until sonar ceases to exist in its present form and see how things are going at no extra cost to me, i wasn't going to renew my subscription next year, but this was to good to pass up, you never know what the future brings, i am not tied either emotionally or any other way to a particular daw or company as many others here seem to be, i will go with what i see as the best at the time, the best for me, and that is not sonar at this time on either count, perhaps down the road aways it may have those things i desire, or perhaps it may be another daw all together, but for now i am more than happy where i am
#18
bronsoncox
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 11:12:23 (permalink)
soens
Bristol_Jonesey
BRuys
The whole thing about Sonar Platinum was that it was to be the end of versions, to be updated continuously.  The model is similar to Windows 10 - supposedly the last version of Windows ever, to be updated indefinitely.  That's why it was not called X4.  So you can't compare the life expectancy of Platinum against previous versions like X2 or X3, etc.  The model is now completely different.

Someone gets it 



Except for the fact that this "model" goes against the well established marketing model built on the foundation of "change is necessary to maintain sales". The consumer consciousness has been conditioned to expect a newer version periodically. The market, the world, all are in a constant state of neverending change. The current philosophy will only last as long as it yields sustainable results. The moment it fails to do so, change will happen.




X2 becomes X3 becomes Frankfurt becomes Guggenheim becomes 2016.05 becomes 2016.06 Update 1, et al...
 
They've changed revision naming almost as often as they've changed their sales strategy.
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azslow3
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 11:23:54 (permalink)
The Grim
John
Is there a promise that CW has made that one can point to as precedent? On what grounds is this assertion made?

[playing the devils advocate] if you cared to take the time to look you could find untruths, perhaps not a broken promises as such, but certainly back flips to stated things, for example there will be no mac version for sonar to name one, and what do we have now? we all know that has been stated many times over the years, i am just stating a fact. if you are going to pretend to be squeaky clean, you best be squeaky clean. i know this will be roasted, turn inside out and flipped on it's head by the fanatics, but it is the truth none the less.

I will not flip anything, I am not fanatic and I normally disagree with John's statements.
 
But what you have written make no sense. Which answer could you get asking IBM officials on question either you are able to care a computer in your pocket in year 1960?

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#20
John
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 11:26:30 (permalink)
The Grim
John
 
Is there a promise that CW has made that one can point to as precedent? On what grounds is this assertion made?   




[playing the devils advocate] if you cared to take the time to look you could find untruths, perhaps not a broken promises as such, but certainly back flips to stated things, for example there will be no mac version for sonar to name one, and what do we have now? we all know that has been stated many times over the years, i am just stating a fact. if you are going to pretend to be squeaky clean, you best be squeaky clean. i know this will be roasted, turn inside out and flipped on it's head by the fanatics, but it is the truth none the less.
 
i am just pointing it out in relation to the apparent belief that there is no guile to be found in this company. companies are all the same, at the end of the day it is all about what is best for them, their survival first and foremost, everything else is secondary, anyone who tells you different is either deluded or flat out lying.
 
anyway, the news has broken, didn't really excite me much, very thankful for the $99 lifetime deal, the latest version seems fairly good, however not near enough to drag me from my daw of choice. now as a lifetime member i can check back every now and then until sonar ceases to exist in its present form and see how things are going at no extra cost to me, i wasn't going to renew my subscription next year, but this was to good to pass up, you never know what the future brings, i am not tied either emotionally or any other way to a particular daw or company as many others here seem to be, i will go with what i see as the best at the time, the best for me, and that is not sonar at this time on either count, perhaps down the road aways it may have those things i desire, or perhaps it may be another daw all together, but for now i am more than happy where i am


When CW responded about not having a Mac version in the future that was under a different owner and not once did they say it would never happen. At that time it wasn't in the pipeline. Nor can anyone characterize it as a lie or going back on a promise. They never promised that a Mac version would never happen.
 
I reject your putting all companies in the same boat. They are as different as the people in them. Some companies shine when it comes to integrity others not so much.  
 
 

Best
John
#21
bapu
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 11:37:15 (permalink)
The Grim
John
 
Is there a promise that CW has made that one can point to as precedent? On what grounds is this assertion made?   




[playing the devils advocate] if you cared to take the time to look you could find untruths, perhaps not a broken promises as such, but certainly back flips to stated things, for example there will be no mac version for sonar to name one, and what do we have now? we all know that has been stated many times over the years, i am just stating a fact.

Added to that, the "no Mac version" statements were strongly asserted in Pre-Roland and Roland days.
 
TBH I've not heard it STRONGLY asserted since Gibson bought CW. So I conclude that from day one Gibson probably had this plan on the table and with lifetime updates they just bumped the financing of the project.
 
If the naysayers really want to speculate they need to start saying that Gibson is planning to build up CW and sell it off.
 
Oh snap, did I just say that? My bad.
#22
Reckedtrek
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 11:48:42 (permalink)
I never mentioned it, but will now. Has anyone else noticed the SPLAT logo looks like a symbol of a black hole! They are going to suck us all in, take all of our money, and we'll never be heard from again. i KNEW it! I just knew it.
 
<sarcasm off>
 
Stop children, what's that sound...

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#23
jdownin
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 12:01:57 (permalink)
I don't know if I should bite.  New ownership usually brings change and Gibson could be planning to discontinue in the near future.  Support has already gotten worse.  I used to be able to call Sonar for support, but now every time I try they tell me all agents are busy and I need to send an email.  
 
I do, however, love the support I get from the forum.
 

Johnny B


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#24
Tripecac
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 12:38:07 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby richlion821 2017/05/17 17:35:59
Once they have two operating systems running they will release Sonar "Diamond"

So, the more people who buy the lifetime upgrade, the sooner Sonar Platinum will be discontinued?
 
The whole thing about Sonar Platinum was that it was to be the end of versions, to be updated continuously.

Continuous updates only work if there is a continuous income stream.  If all Sonar users converted to lifetime subscriptions (including the upcoming Mac users) and stopped buying other Cakewalk products, then the income stream would dry up.  How long could Cakewalk possibly deliver updates?  How long could they "coast" on the lifetime update injection?
 
The current philosophy will only last as long as it yields sustainable results. The moment it fails to do so, change will happen.

The lifetime offer is a huge change.  Does this mean the subscription model failed to yield sustainable results?  And, going back, did the "standard" model (1.0 through X3) fail to yield sustainable results as well?
 
To me, these drastic changes imply financial desperation.  If something is working well, why change it?
 
I use platinum nearly day and really love it, I look forward to the updates like a kid looks forward to' what's in the big box at Christmas.

I can see the appeal of this.  I, too, would be excited for new updates, if only Cakewalk would fix the bugs I've reported over the years.  Some of those bugs, which bother me every day, are STILL not fixed, and Cakewalk has STILL not even responded to my bug reports.  So, each time I open the monthly "big box" I check to see if the bugs are fixed, and when they are not, I get more and more bitter (or "cynical" as John puts it).  Like a kid who keeps asking for a lego set but keeps receiving Barbies.

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#25
John T
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 12:43:02 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Rocsee70 2016/06/07 05:23:13
Tripecac
Continuous updates only work if there is a continuous income stream.  If all Sonar users converted to lifetime subscriptions (including the upcoming Mac users) and stopped buying other Cakewalk products, then the income stream would dry up.

Ah, but the lifetime offer is a/ only available til the end of August and b/ limited to people buying or renewing Platinum. So it's not even a majority of users, never mind "all".

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#26
letyourlightshine
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 12:44:18 (permalink)
MarioD
Why all the negativity?  Why worry about something that you have no control over?  It will be what it will be!  Live with it.
 
I'll bet that some people would win a million tax free dollars/euros/whatever then **** because they would have to drive 500 miles/804 kilometers to pick up their check!
 
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Thanks you !
#27
kitekrazy1
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 12:59:58 (permalink)
I think you will find some will opt for the membership model over lifetime updates.  As with most software people may prefer not to upgrade at all if it alters their workflow preference.  Some prefer stability over new. Look how long it took people to finally ditch XP.

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#28
Sylvan
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 13:18:21 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby John 2016/06/02 13:47:02
The Grim
companies are all the same, at the end of the day it is all about what is best for them, their survival first and foremost, everything else is secondary, anyone who tells you different is either deluded or flat out lying.



Wait a minute. Do you mean that companies go into business to make a profit? What nerve! How dare they make decisions based on staying in business! This is an outrage!
 
They should require their employees to spend 40 hours a week working for free out of the goodness of their hearts while their families starve in the streets, all to make products and services to benefit everyone else.
 
To actually think that any company could have the audacity and evilness to go into business to make a profit, so they can earn a standard of living for themselves and their families is so vile it should be condemned for all time!

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#29
joden
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Being retired soon ??? 2016/06/02 13:38:29 (permalink)
The lifetime offer on the face of it seems okay to me. I agree with the OP that once the OSX version is rolling out the door with paid for versions, the goalposts will be moved. The lifetime upgrades will be exactly that, for the lifetime of Platinum.
 
There will be another momentous announcement of a brand new Sonar (or whatever it is to be called) melding everything that has gone before into a new hybrid product. And yes, this will require folks signing up for, yes, a new SUBSCRIPTION model...there will be no lifetime upgrade offers with that!
 
Remember as "folksy" as the people who work for Gibson try to be, the company is STILL a company and have no real regard for the personal happiness of people who licence the software. They gamble on the premise that possibly up to 95% of existing Sonar owners are so committed to the software (and not just becasue of "liking it" but also because there would be a huge upheaval in modifying personal music data to change DAW's) that they will simply accept the new "model" albeit with lots of grumbling (although there will always be apologists) and after a time it will all settle down and Gibson will go on its merry way.
 
Politicians count on it all the time, the publics' short (extremely short) attention span for remembering what decisions were made and how those decisions adversly affected lives. Corporations, companies, Governments, they all operate on the same premise.
 
Personally I bought the lifetime upgrade as I figure it will take approx two years to get an OSX version fully ready for market (but who knows maybe Gibson have been developing OSX versions even while denying it will ever happen??? so my guess could be way off)......this cost me $146 (Im in Oz) which is a lot cheaper than paying for two more years worth of subs.
 
I make no criticism of Gibson - business is business and were I in its position I might do the same. However I would appreciate them not trying to be so "buddy-buddy" about it, as if all of us (users) and all of them were somehow part of one big "family" all looking out for each other.
 
As always, jmo
 
 
post edited by joden - 2016/06/02 14:00:16
#30
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