Helpful ReplySonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on renewal

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kitekrazy1
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 00:54:54 (permalink)
Leadfoot
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What are your thoughts on DrumCore? Same "real drummer" feel with great flexibility, but stuck in limbo on the way to v4 (64-bit) ever since SonomaWireworks acquired it and has tried to rework v4 from scratch — endless beta, with pre-paid people upset due to delivery being around 14 months late. (Sonoma acquired Discrete too in 2009).

I have Kitcore and absolutely love it, especially the Matt Cameron kitpack. But I got BFD3 for Christmas last year and have been using that pretty exclusively. I would like to upgrade Kitcore, though. The main reason I got BFD3 is I was tired of using jBridge just to be able to use Kitcore. And we all know how long we've been waiting for Kitcore and Drumcore to be updated to 64 bit. I just got tired of waiting for Sonoma to get their head out of their rears.



 I had Drumcore deluxe and removed all traces of it and Kitcore.  I don't want to buy an upgrade to use 64 bit.  EZ Drummer, AD, SSD and loops work fine for me. 
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 01:00:44 (permalink)
Drone7
I'm of the honest opinion that overall Addictive Drums II sounds better than both Superior Drummer and BFD. IMO Cakewalk has made the right decision. And also, look at it this way, apart from real-life and real-time dynamics of a real drummer (which every drum replacement is at a loss for) if someone can't make convincing fill-drums with Addictive Drummer II, then something's very wrong.
 
Compared to my days with a Roland D50 and D20 and later the Roland XP80 and a Korg Trinity, the samples we have to work with these days are a dream come true, very high-quality and convincing, it simply can't get any better. Even the current Yamaha Motif XF and Korg Kronos don't have anything that sound as good as this, so you tell me; some people are just spoiled these days. Herbie Hancock or Midnight Star never had access to these samples we have today, but that didn't stop them...
 
I make EDM-Pop music, but there are times when i like to incorporate some realistic drum sounds for a break-down beat, and Addictive Drummer II will do me just fine.   
 
I've got an opposite complaint to the OP, i want Cakewalk to give us a version III of the PSYN softsynth and a version II of Pentagon and add a dedicated EDM Drum-Machine.




 Those are becoming a dime a dozen.  Use Rapture, DP or Z3ta instead.
 
#32
AT
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 01:19:00 (permalink)
At $150 (or $199 after the sale), Cake ain't likely paying too much for AD2 and the libraries.  Most of these cross-software items are to get you into AD, or Overloud, etc. so they can sell you upgrades and/or sell you their next generation item.  Cake has intimated that a lot of time/money went into the website stuff.  There are a few new toys, but most of the work done seems to be on the non-sexy innards and smoothing the interface.  Which is fine.
 
But to complain that you have a program that costs more than SONAR and the included "freebee" doesn't match up, well, that is just kinda silly.  REmatrix is a lot better than REmatrix solo, but I ain't complaining that SOLO doesn't compare to Altiverb.  AD2 is a good program and you can get good results with it.  Is it John Bonham - of course not.  But upgrading to AD2 for a fraction of $150 - that is a good deal. 
 
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#33
Drone7
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 01:56:28 (permalink)
AT

but I ain't complaining that SOLO doesn't compare to Altiverb. 


Not sure how you came to that conclusion. REmatrix Solo shares the same IR Convolutions from the full version, which are second to none. REmatrix Solo in contrast to the full version is merely a top-flight Convolution Reverb unit, it just doesn't have the multi-aspect feature that it's big brother has to allow full-blown customization and sculpting. Other than that, it is definitely top-tier in it's own right. Take a listen and then dare to tell me different. Just saying.
#34
willif
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 02:19:50 (permalink)
This is Great. Open discussion.  But don't get me wrong here. My deal is this.. in my over 30 years in sales retail/management, in electronic & professional gear - NOTHING is free. Sonar has to pay ADII money to allow us as members to choose $300 or so worth of their product, and when there is a cost we the consumers get to pay it.
 
Jeff you are right in we are not all the same, so why do we ALL have to take drums? Also remember Sonar lets you keep whatever is added so new people buying in get the 3 ADII packs now.
 
Jeff I'll use your currency, for my example, alway nice to talk to someone from the other side of the globe.
 
SONAR Platinum MEMBERSHIP RENEWAL Program:
Membership renewal price Platinum $79.00
Membership renewal special bonus offers for $100.00
Choose 1 from: 3 ADII Drum pks
                       3 Sound Libraries for D Pro
                       3 Sound Libraries for Rapture
                       X# of Prochannel effect plug-ins 
                       The complete sound library for the Cakewalk Sound Player
or my Fav
 
The Grand Slam - ALL of the above for $579. plus 1 bonus selection from supplied list, monthly payments avail.
 
or
 
I don't need any extras just update my Platinum DAW for $79.00
 
Sonar has started a membership program, let's tell them what we as members would like to from them, and now is the time because it gives us at least 6 months (based on my past experiences) before the programs start to get set in stone.
 
Myself I want Sonar to be the BEST Recording/Mastering DAW Period. Not a reseller of other's software.
 
Sonar are U listening.
 
WiLLi & MMX3P
#35
Drone7
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 06:21:13 (permalink)
kitekrazy1
Drone7
I've got an opposite complaint to the OP, i want Cakewalk to give us a version III of the PSYN softsynth and a version II of Pentagon and add a dedicated EDM Drum-Machine.



 Those are becoming a dime a dozen. Use Rapture, DP or Z3ta instead.
 




 
I don't like Rapture, it's years old and the soundsets are average at best. Dimension Pro is well-overdue for an update (the sounds are sub-par and archaic) and i already have Z3TA+ II but that alone can't carry a track.
 
A version III update of PSYN and a version II update of Pentagon I would really help Sonar cement itself as a premium world-class DAW, and that's what i thought Cakewalk was aiming for.
It's good to clean-out old cobwebs and put a spring-clean into the situation without neglecting any aspects or tools of a DAW. I hope Cakewalk will realize this.
Sonar is still not considered the go-to DAW among 90% of producers, and there's a reason for that. Every element and detail has to be taken care of. Cakewalk can't just cater to traditional Rock bands and acoustic players without expecting the majority to frown at Sonar. Cakewalk must not rest on its laurels just yet, they have some work to do.
But actually only a few minor things need taking care of, then many more producers will lift an eyebrow toward Sonar, and i reckon overhauled upgraded versions of Pentagon I and PSYN II combined with a dedicated high-performance Arp and adding a dedicated EDM Drum Machine will definitely make many more producers sit-up and take notice. Value for money is still a magnet by anyone's standards, and EDM producers make-up a 'huge' percentage of producers these days, so i hope Cakewalk realize this. If it's all about market share and making a profit, then cater to every level of producer and the majority of producers will take notice. Value-add combined with 'Quality, not quantity' is what it's all about...
 
And Cakewalk, one more thing... if and when you upgrade the sounds, i say never ever use compressed sounds (MP3/AAC/OGG-VORBIS - the very mention of those makes me shudder), that would be ludicrous. Only uncompressed 16-24bit WAV files. Preserve the integrity of our songs and our output, i beg of you.   
 
#36
mettelus
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 06:59:47 (permalink)
I also agree with the "less extras/samples and more functionality" with upgrades. As far as partnerships, I think CW and FXpansion's Geist would be an excellent benefit to all SONAR users as it fills many feature requests that hit the forums on occasion:
  1. Sampling ("what you hear") via the Geist's "Spitter" utility.
  2. Elegant slicing/pad assignments, layering, FX embedded into the Geist engine.
  3. Time stretching.
  4. Incredibly powerful Step Sequencer (allowing for 1024 samples to be individually fired per Geist instance).
A fully integrated version of Geist for SONAR would immediately close a lot of these gaps (and far exceed user expectations for step sequencer/drumming needs).

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#37
Drone7
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 07:12:55 (permalink)
Just because you like Geist that doesn't mean we need it. That pet like of yours is for you, not for us. I don't see why Cakewalk should expend time and money for your arbitrary whim. This Geist is a toy plugin, not a universal plugin applicable to all users, it will not benefit the large majority of users in any way. Sonar already has Drop Zone for samples, ample effects and a competent grid sequencer, I don't see anything about Geist that might be universally useful to all Sonar users. It is a third-party extra type of plugin. If you want it then go buy it yourself, this is not what i deem relevant. We need solid basics relevant to the majority.
post edited by Drone7 - 2015/02/01 07:19:55
#38
mettelus
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 07:52:13 (permalink)
The SS internal to SONAR is the only part of the program I can continually crash given enough time, so it is pretty universal (unless someone works with audio only). My post above was simply a suggestion, but thank you for your opinion of what "you deem relevant."

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#39
Drone7
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 08:01:39 (permalink)
What the hell is SS? Have we got mind-readers written on our stupid foreheads have we??? Geezzz. I'll take a guess and assume it means Sonar Sampler, but really, stop being lazy man, it's pretty hard to interpret such an acronym. I say again, if you want Geist then go get it, we don't need it. I will reiterate, your suggestion is merely your own want, it is not relevant to the majority of users, so why expect Cakewalk to even entertain such a wish?
#40
kevinwhitect
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 08:14:25 (permalink)
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Paul P
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 08:21:26 (permalink)
willif
SONAR Platinum MEMBERSHIP RENEWAL Program:
Membership renewal price Platinum $79.00
...



I too would prefer an updated-core-only option for 75$ or similar.  An update that you could buy every once in a while to get the core up to date with all the bug fixes to that point.  This has been mentioned in the past.
 

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kevinwhitect
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 08:21:29 (permalink)
willif
 
I don't need any extras just update my Platinum DAW for $79.00
 
Sonar has started a membership program, let's tell them what we as members would like to from them, and now is the time because it gives us at least 6 months (based on my past experiences) before the programs start to get set in stone.
 
Myself I want Sonar to be the BEST Recording/Mastering DAW Period. Not a reseller of other's software.
 
Sonar are U listening.
 
WiLLi & MMX3P



Ditto on that.

With the conversion to subscription based upgrade in programming, the issue will be keeping essential bells and whistles relative to the core purpose up and the ongoing subscription rate down. The key to the success of the model is lower cost=more consistent subscribership.




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#43
Drone7
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 08:29:36 (permalink)
Paul P
I too would prefer an updated-core-only option for $75 or similar. An update that you could buy every once in a while to get the core up to date with all the bug fixes to that point.  




 
Are you suggesting that we pay for bug fixes?????????????????????????
#44
Paul P
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 08:51:44 (permalink)
Drone7
Are you suggesting that we pay for bug fixes?????????????????????????



We always have .
 
I used to believe in a perfect world too, but I've given up on that and now I sleep better.
 
 
EDIT:  the core also receives improvements and expansions, not just bug fixes..
 
post edited by Paul P - 2015/02/01 09:02:07

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#45
Drone7
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 09:27:48 (permalink)
I hear ya. But I don't think we have ever paid for bug fixes, those are just ongoing inconvenient truths. We pay for the DAW upgrade, the bug fixes are simply and ever present reality, we don't pay for them, that's my point. But yeah, the imperfect world gets closer to perfect when we put our uncompromising stamp on it, our stamp of 'Quality, not quantity' and show people that God is in the details instead of the devil. I admire people who strive for perfection though, because perfection is nice when one gets very close to it.
#46
g_randybrown
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 09:40:44 (permalink)
Different strokes for different folks I reckon...the AD 2 package is the main reason I upgraded!

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#47
John
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 09:45:12 (permalink)
Drone7
Paul P
I too would prefer an updated-core-only option for $75 or similar. An update that you could buy every once in a while to get the core up to date with all the bug fixes to that point.  




 
Are you suggesting that we pay for bug fixes?????????????????????????


Isn't that what Artist is ? 

Best
John
#48
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 09:46:50 (permalink)
Drone7
What the hell is SS? Have we got mind-readers written on our stupid foreheads have we??? Geezzz. I'll take a guess and assume it means Sonar Sampler, but really, stop being lazy man, it's pretty hard to interpret such an acronym. I say again, if you want Geist then go get it, we don't need it. I will reiterate, your suggestion is merely your own want, it is not relevant to the majority of users, so why expect Cakewalk to even entertain such a wish?

Given the context of the previous exchange, I would have thought SS referred to Step Sequencer.

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#49
SuperG
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 10:03:25 (permalink)
Can't please everyone..... Me? I'm happy with AD2, and I really like the fairfax kit - it's got some nice presets. Of course, I'm coming from EZDrummer so...

laudem Deo
#50
cityrat
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 10:19:47 (permalink)
This is another tough one for CW.  As I said before, only CW knows what it costs for the add-ons like AD2 - but nothing is free that's for sure.
 
On one hand you have people who want the "core" and "functionality" as the focus.  On the other hand lots of people love that they can get a program like Melodyne, AD, BlueTube etc thrown in as part of the upgrade.  There's a real temptation to do the calculation and decide that the upgrade price is worth xxx because the cost of add-on is xx.  But if you weren't going to by add-on xx in the first place you're just rationalizing a new toy.   DimPro, Rapture etc are a little different as CW owns them and it seems like they're depreciated enough that it's probably null cost of the upgrade.
 
But it seems that the add-on path is getting a little saturated.  Most people (esp those using a "platinum" level) already have more plug ins and stuff that they can actually use.  And I see more and more threads about simplifying and streamlining personal workflow so you (I) dont spend (waste?) time messing with 10000 plugins.
 
Personally, I like stuff like the CA plugs as they sorta use what is there but make my life easier with how good they are.  And I'd like work on the staff view, varispeed, etc vs 3rd party plugins.
 
Not sure where the membership will take us - but should be fun finding out.  I have to believe that there will be more updates to the actual SONAR than new "bundles" but only CW knows.  Will be an interesting year!
 
 
 

Sonar Platinum | Windows 7 64 bit SP1 | Intel i5 3570 3.4GHz | 8GB RAM | Gigabyte GA-B75-D3H | OCZ SSD | RME 9632
#51
Drone7
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 11:04:52 (permalink)
SuperG
Can't please everyone..... Me? I'm happy with AD2, and I really like the fairfax kit - it's got some nice presets. Of course, I'm coming from EZDrummer so...


AD2 is quite frankly amongst the best sampled drums I've ever heard. I think Cakewalk chooses very carefully before deciding what to include. The only drawback i can see about including third-party products is all the separate accounts and registrations required... Just more unecessary hassle. The benefit of DAWs like Cubase and Logic Pro X is that 'all' their included plugins are proprietary designs included by the DAW maker, and thus saving all the extraneous installation and registration issues. I am so sick to death of dealing with ten million different accounts for ten million different products. I am tempted to design my own DAW and show them how it should be done. Only uber quality all the way combined with true simplicity and only the necessary bases covered. Get rid of the learning curve and excessive menus and navigation hassles. Forget being all things to all people, we just need essentials only and ingenious simple design without all the menus. Trying to accommodate too many methodologies is the problem with these DAWs. Mixcraft 7 is the epitomy of effective simplicity and a brilliant interface, but their included plugins and sounds are pure garbage.
post edited by Drone7 - 2015/02/01 11:11:57
#52
VariousArtist
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 11:15:23 (permalink)
willif
This is Great. Open discussion.  But don't get me wrong here. My deal is this.. in my over 30 years in sales retail/management, in electronic & professional gear - NOTHING is free. Sonar has to pay ADII money to allow us as members to choose $300 or so worth of their product, and when there is a cost we the consumers get to pay it.
 
Jeff you are right in we are not all the same, so why do we ALL have to take drums? Also remember Sonar lets you keep whatever is added so new people buying in get the 3 ADII packs now.
 
Jeff I'll use your currency, for my example, alway nice to talk to someone from the other side of the globe.
 
SONAR Platinum MEMBERSHIP RENEWAL Program:
Membership renewal price Platinum $79.00
Membership renewal special bonus offers for $100.00
Choose 1 from: 3 ADII Drum pks
                       3 Sound Libraries for D Pro
                       3 Sound Libraries for Rapture
                       X# of Prochannel effect plug-ins 
                       The complete sound library for the Cakewalk Sound Player
or my Fav
 
The Grand Slam - ALL of the above for $579. plus 1 bonus selection from supplied list, monthly payments avail.
 
or
 
I don't need any extras just update my Platinum DAW for $79.00
 
Sonar has started a membership program, let's tell them what we as members would like to from them, and now is the time because it gives us at least 6 months (based on my past experiences) before the programs start to get set in stone.
 
Myself I want Sonar to be the BEST Recording/Mastering DAW Period. Not a reseller of other's software.
 
Sonar are U listening.
 
WiLLi & MMX3P


I agree with the concept of paying to get the top features of Sonar without the third party add-ons and FX

- A kind of "Sonar Platinum Lite"....lol

www.petermatuchniak.com ~ Latest Release ~ YouTube ~ Facebook ~ Discography
 
#53
bapu
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 12:03:32 (permalink)
This thread keeps drumming on, no?

My name is Ed. I Am still bapu though.
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 12:08:04 (permalink)
Anderton
 
There's also some crossover. I thought Drum 'n' Bass demanded electronic drums, but heard a human drummer playing DnB once and he added a whole different flavor. It was a cool alternative.



To be fair, DnB was always about slicing loops of real drumming and playing them back super fast, especially in the early days. I remember when it first started appearing on the rave scene in the UK in the early 90's, back when they called it "Jungle" and most of the tracks used the classic Amen break or some variation chopped up and rearranged. The real drum loops made a refreshing change to the 808 and 909 sounds that dominated the rest of techno at the time and gave it more of an organic feel. Of course in recent years synthetic drums have been used a lot more for DnB.

James
Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
#55
sharke
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 12:08:41 (permalink)
Nothing beats a real drummer, but Jamstix outputting MIDI to a great drum VST like AD comes pretty close.

James
Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
#56
swamptooth
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 12:28:14 (permalink)
sharke
Anderton

There's also some crossover. I thought Drum 'n' Bass demanded electronic drums, but heard a human drummer playing DnB once and he added a whole different flavor. It was a cool alternative.



To be fair, DnB was always about slicing loops of real drumming and playing them back super fast, especially in the early days. I remember when it first started appearing on the rave scene in the UK in the early 90's, back when they called it "Jungle" and most of the tracks used the classic Amen break or some variation chopped up and rearranged. The real drum loops made a refreshing change to the 808 and 909 sounds that dominated the rest of techno at the time and gave it more of an organic feel. Of course in recent years synthetic drums have been used a lot more for DnB.


Not to mention other electronica acts like Chemical Brothers, Crystal Method, MBM, Massive Attack either live or with session drummers in studio -- oh and DJ Spooky had a great album with Dave Lombardo!

 
Arvid H. Peterson
Sonar X3E Prod / X2A  / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure Data
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#57
AT
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 14:09:42 (permalink)
Drone7
AT

but I ain't complaining that SOLO doesn't compare to Altiverb. 


Not sure how you came to that conclusion. REmatrix Solo shares the same IR Convolutions from the full version, which are second to none. REmatrix Solo in contrast to the full version is merely a top-flight Convolution Reverb unit, it just doesn't have the multi-aspect feature that it's big brother has to allow full-blown customization and sculpting. Other than that, it is definitely top-tier in it's own right. Take a listen and then dare to tell me different. Just saying.



I'm was agreeing with your POV.  I was disagreeing with those who thought Cakewalk should include a different full-priced drum collection that they prefer.  If they were to include something else, my vote would be for Heavyocity, even tho I already have several of their libraries.
 
As to synths, personally I never really like Pysn or Pentagon.  There are much better VAs out there with a thicker, richer more VA sound including Z3TA.  They work better with the more cutting sound of Rapture and DimPro - and there are 3rd party SFZ sounds and libraries that open those SFZ synths up.  Granted, Cake really should do more libraries to keep them relevant - and make the SFZ files available for each synth at the same time.  But Alchemy and both of those Cake synths cover most of the sonic ground.  Here's hoping that Cake does buy Alchemy, but I ain't holding my breath.
 
FYI, in the contest of Giest, SS applies to SONAR's internal Step Sequencer. 
 
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there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
#58
declan
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 14:27:32 (permalink)
g_randybrown
Different strokes for different folks I reckon...the AD 2 package is the main reason I upgraded!




This particular time the AD2  stuff is the only reason I upgraded.  And I'm not being a jerk here, I just think it's a testament to how great X3e is/was (at least for me) and of course next year what ever they may tempt me with is $199 so...
 
I understand where the OP and others are coming from in that the 3rd party stuff usually holds no appeal for me, but I just happened to be at a crossroads when it came to drums (waiting on new stuff to come out) so the timing was just perfect & dirt cheap for me.  And I think AD2 sounds very good.
 
 
#59
willif
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Re: Sonar Platinum - Please NO MORE Drum packs as the major reason for Price Hike -on rene 2015/02/01 15:22:51 (permalink)
Hi Members, excellent feedback but Please remember that I'm talking about Membership RENEWAL in 2016. The original deal to BUY-IN has been set. As for pricing, I've waited til near the end of the year of release to buy X2 Producer for $60.00US no extras, and X3e Producer for $75.00US no extras, just before they release a new series. They already sell us the bug fixes & updates for well under $100.00US so why now should we start paying $200.00US/year on an ongoing basis for the bug fixes & updates? For those who are just getting into Sonar all the "FreeBee's" are very valuable to them, so let them pay more to get all the extras, but even they will have different uses for Sonar and not ALL want drums. Us long time supporters of Sonar and Cakewalk prior have paid our dues in upgrading regularly to get to the levels were at, and it was a whole lot more expensive for what U got 5 years ago then it is now.
 
As stated earlier Sonar has changed the playing field with the introduction of a Membership Program. Now is the time to voice our opinions so this new Program will suit the needs of it users.
 
Sonar wants a Membership, were the members - let's steer the ship! 
 
WiLLi & MMX3P
#60
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