AT
And from the people here and out in the non-virtual world most SONAR users - a plurality if not majority, seem to be guitarists.  Singer songwriters or rock and rollers.

A long time ago I couldn't afford it, but I always thought that Cakewalk was built on MIDI.  That is was king of the software-synths-on-midi world.  I waited a long time before finally jumping on board with X1/X2 and discovered that the Cakewalk world was now built on audio, not midi.  Worse, the midi there was had problems. I was kind of disappointed.  What happened ?
 
I also want to record, but I need Sonar for synths and complex midi arrangements.  Drum kits are not high on my list.
 

This thread marches to a different drummer.

For what it's worth AD2 was a big reason I pulled the trigger on sonar as a first time user.

Drone7
 A well-produced world-class EDM track is a feast for the ears and emotions of any audiophile music-loving discerning listener, quite frankly, music-wise, IMO there's nothing better on the planet,
  

As I'm not very familiar with all the varieties of EDM artists out there, so can you please suggest some "well-produced" artists or songs that I can feast my ears on?  

Drone7
Do i detect disingenuous overtones? You're a funny man. Anyway, just for starters...
 
Try Samantha Jade "Firestarter". And not AAC or MP3 if you wanna hear it properly.
 
Try Ellie Goulding "Burn". And not AAC or MP3 if you wanna hear it properly.
 
Try Nicki Minaj "Pound The Alarm" (not the 'explicit' version). And not AAC or MP3 if you wanna hear it properly.
 
 
Remember, listening to the AAC or MP3 version is not conducive to displaying the "well-produced" aspect of it, just in case you needed to be reminded.
 
 

LOL......no danger.....no overtones.......just an honest question. :))
Thanks for that....I'll def. check them out.
 
Starting with Firestarter, Burn, and then Pound The Alarm..........(a fireman should arrive shortly).
 

Mesh
 
Craig, reading your comments on loops (which I haven't used in quite some time) has got me interested in them. Are these loops available in the current Platinum version (what you've described above (which Brian approved))?  
 
(During the installation, I only recall seeing the Loopmaster and other loop based stuff that was included in X3).

They were made specifically for the membership program, are not available anywhere else, and will be included with an upcoming update. However, eventually the loops may be available for sale to non-members. As amazing as it might seem, not everyone uses SONAR but they still need good loops 

denverdrummer
Craig's stuff sounds great, and it's well produced, even if it's just drum loops, and the creativity involved makes it unique.

But the only reason why the drums sound great is because the drummer is great. Now, I will take credit for cutting and pasting loops and inserting hits to create variations, but garbage in = garbage out. In this case, great drummer = great drummer out. (Concrete Limiter to bring up the ambience doesn't hurt, either!)
 
 

Agreed 100% that creating good EDM is just as challenging as creating good anything. And let me throw in a comment about club/producer DJs...try doing a four-set for 4,000 Germans whacked out on ecstasy without making a single mistake. Blow a beat match, and it's a train wreck. It's not easy, and to be able to create a musical ebb and flow that lasts over multiple hours takes serious skills. "DJ" is not synonymous any more with "the guy who played Barbra Streisand's 'Evergreen' over a crappy sound system at my cousin's wedding."
 

Well,
 
I wonder how AD2 came about 'as a major reason to the price hike'.  I haven't been able to find a copy of the financial plan for Cakewalk on the net anywhere.  I do however see that you are invested in a great set of tools, and don't value AD2 in your purchasing decisions.   Neither do I, but I do use them and SD3 when I am creating scratch tracks so that when I work with the drummer on a project, I can get my point across.  I for one, appreciate that Sonar has a good sounding set of reference drums and midi patterns.  So if I put it another way in a price point decision, if they took them out, I would not be exactly happy, but I can go back to my historical purchases, download, and re-install.  As a side note, I am grateful that the Bakers have given us this capability.
 
Going to have to check out the reference to discrete drums listed above.  Faster is appreciated.  In all - I really appreciate this forum, and everyones posts here.  Invaluable, you all are...
 
Best Regards,
 
L  
   

I'm impressed with this thread. It contains some very thoughtful, intelligent and valid points made in a constructive and productive manner from multiple points of view. The world may end this week.
 

denverdrummer" I'm for more music being created, not less,"

Thank you denverdrummer for keeping the truth front and center. I see you having much in common with Drone7.

ATI personally hope Cake continues to appeal to this bigger audience."

Thank you AT. Couldn't agree more.

AndertonDifferent people have different needs.

Absolutely Craig! This thread manages to capture the pro-active expression of -some- of those needs. Or wants.
....
 
The point was made that if one does not need/prefer AD2, don't buy it. That's not the point.
 
The issue is more about the -Membership- which is being marketed as the current release -plus- a full year of incremental releases of features, support and content without any concrete information as to what you will receive.

Anderton"It's on Cakewalk to provide something that causes people to renew."

Great! We and anybody else can speculate or hint as to what that might be. Or perhaps we can offer a suggestion at a pivotal point in the evolution of the platform. CW is taking a lead to change the business model and I'm sure they have a credible strategy for the first year. Just thinking now might be a good time for users to offer insights on what they regard as value.

cityrat  But it seems that the add-on path is getting a little saturated. Most people (esp those using a "platinum" level) already have more plug ins and stuff that they can actually use. And I see more and more threads about simplifying and streamlining personal workflow so you (I) dont spend (waste?) time messing with 10000 plugins.  

My observation as well cityrat, even if they are quality add-ons.

fireberd"Meat" not "fluff".

I agree with everything tlw said (post #81). I expect CW to continue to bundle 3rd party extras and other content to attract new users to the platform. Great! NP for me, -unless- 3rd party bundles, loops and amp sims are claimed as the major benefit of the -membership-. I have no problem not buying anything I don't value, but would be disappointed IF this is how it turned out. But I have no reason to assume this will be the case.

Drone7"Quality, not quantity".

Appreciating the comments Drone7 (post #82), not because I'm an EDM guy (I'm not), but because you've articulated a passion and commitment to the integrity of your craft which all genres could benefit from. I suspect that carries over into your opinions on how the Sonar experience could be expanded. Glad to hear it.
 
The configuration strategy is likely a reflection of running on a PC, (aptly noted by AT in post #86). The open platform concept for PCs has been more than validated by market share but comes with a greater support challenge as a result of that flexibility. However, that is -the- core feature for me and exactly why I moved to Sonar from Pro Tools/Mac platform. Separate registrations can be fussy, but have been a one and done for me.
 
It may depend on what you mean by "native support" but I question the ability of any company to deliver best-in-class for every feature that any genre might use, assuming anyone could even agree on what that is. Once a feature goes native it generally gets locked into the platform and becomes harder to enhance which could actually limit feature development. That being said, CW has demonstrated the ability to deliver some highly useful modules. (Quadcurve EQ, CA-2A, etc.)
 
I prefer a strategy to accommodate the widest range of preferences and imagine greater benefit by deploying CW resources on a core platform/feature set supporting the seamless integration of your preferred tools into a highly capable and robust platform. VST3, Rewire support, ARA integration, templates, etc. are examples of what I would consider core. If you meant ProChannel versions, yeah could see that for some things. This could easily include productive relationships with 3rd party vendors to ensure the robust integration of their flagship product into the core feature set. ARA is a nice start. CW is free to develop their own versions of existing capability but it will be a Product Managers challenge to define more value than what's currently available elsewhere.  

Development resources are always limited and my impression is CW bit the bullet last year to put the necessary architecture in place to support the new business model. Not very sexy or marketable, but a concrete demonstration of their commitment and ability to take on risk. I hardly have all the answers but see no problem in suggesting a strategy based on core features supplemented by optional genre specific bundles. Membership could be defined by pricing, availability, content etc. without lumping all users into a single like it or lump it category. I could go into plenty of pragmatic detail (already said way too much as it is), but intrigued by possibility of something like collaboration services, as mentioned by denverdrummer in post #100. Now -that- would be forward looking and a clear differentiator.

Please note I never once mentioned an actual cost. For someone who has literally spent hundreds of thousands of dollars over the course of a career, the price of a DAW and what you can do with it are just ridiculously inexpensive. It's really about the big picture as the industry as a whole evolves.
 

@Craig,
 
    I appreciate all the work you have done over the years  on the videos and tutorials and the tips. I have learned a lot from you. With that in mind I would like to see a video on how you use the loops and manipulate them etc. I can not for some reason get my head wrapped around the loop editor. I see that the tips are wrapping up so I thought I would mention this and ,again ,thanks for all you do.

Thanks Craig.  I wasn't trying to get you to do one right now, I know you are busy on other things , just something to consider down the road.  Of course if you wanted to do it now that would be ok, too.

kitekrazy1
 
I've never used it. But that would be something new.  As for working with loops you wont find many DAWs as simple or as good as Sonar. 

The Loop Construction window has other uses, like varispeed. I also noticed that if you open REX files in the Loop Construction window, SONAR places transient markers where they were in the 
REX file, which is a good place to get started when creating an Acidized wav.
 
I've written quite a bit about the LC window in my Sound on Sound column, but the articles are quite old and need to be updated.