cparmerlee
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/06/10 21:23:06
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Doktor Avalanche
Their big ultimate plan though is one OS to rule them all
During the Ballmer years, they got stuck on the idea that people actually wanted their phone and desktop to behave the same. Most people do NOT want that. Under Nadella, they have been aggressively backpedaling from that nightmare. They didn't go 180 degrees away from the mess that Ballmer's reign created, but at least they do seem to have some appreciation for the idea that people running big powerful multi-display workstations really aren't wanting to play with tiles and such. They typically have mission critical software. In our case, we are talking recording studio software. But it could just as easily be architectural software, investment, or 1000 other specialty fields. And you won't find most of that software on the "app store". The other big change is that Microsoft really is making good income from teh Surface hardware. They really got the tablet right with the Surface, IMHO. Because of the hardware revenue, they aren't as focused on the OS revenue as a separate stream. But I still say that a big part of the Windows 10 world will be "ancillary revenue streams". So get ready to have your OS pitching at you 24 x 7.
DAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/F: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen2
OS: Windows 10 64-bit CPU: Haswell 4790 4.0 GHz, 4 core, 8 thread Memory: 16 GB Video: GTX-760Ti
Storage: Sandisk SSD 500GB for active projects. ReadyNAS 20 TB for long-term storagesonocrafters.com
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John T
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/06/10 21:42:24
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☄ Helpfulby Doktor Avalanche 2015/06/10 22:28:05
I've been doing some interesting work recently doing sound effects for a company that makes slot machines. Not your grandaddy's slot machine, but big high-budget Las Vegas casino stuff. The machines are fairly astounding. Great speakers, great high-resolution touch-screens, just spectacular tech.
Anyway, even though I've done lots of work in games and software before, I've never encountered a less Windows-y environment. The machines themselves run a bespoke version of QNX, and all the dev work is done on Linux. They've had me in working on-site, and I needed a Windows machine, and they had to go out and buy one; literally not one single Windows laptop in the entire company.
I reckon that's Microsoft's worst nightmare, that kind of thing. And their best hold on the professional environment is, somewhat ironically, in keeping a hold on the home user environment. The fact that everyone knows Windows from childhood nowadays, might be the strongest factor preventing the more corporate world from abandoning it. Free Windows for the end user means Windows carries on being the de-facto OS for the greatest number of potential employees.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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cparmerlee
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/06/10 21:42:28
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I should add that the Cakewalk subscription model is fundamentally different. It isn't about treating the customer as an object from which to harvest ancillary income. It is simply a proposition that we want the Sonar functionality and Cakewalk needs a reliable revenue stream in order to fund that development. They were completely up-front about that deal. I have no objections to that type of marketing. I would suggest that we should expect Microsoft to be a lot less transparent in their Win10-based marketing moves.
DAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/F: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen2
OS: Windows 10 64-bit CPU: Haswell 4790 4.0 GHz, 4 core, 8 thread Memory: 16 GB Video: GTX-760Ti
Storage: Sandisk SSD 500GB for active projects. ReadyNAS 20 TB for long-term storagesonocrafters.com
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kevinwal
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/06/10 21:51:30
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☄ Helpfulby John T 2015/06/10 22:00:16
cparmerlee
That doesn't mean that Win10 is a bad thing per se. it just means that users must be very vigilant because their software suppliers may have interests directly opposed to the users' interests.
Any software supplier with interests opposed to its users will become completely irrelevant to them in short order. I find your characterization of any kind of monetization strategy as something users should be warned about and vigilant against as odd. We used to think it would be great if companies could write incredible software that they give away to everybody who wants to use it but we knew it would never happen because companies need to make a lot of money to create something on the scale of Windows or Android or OSX. Companies have finally figured out a way to do it without imminent threat of bankruptcy and rather than celebrate such a thing, we are now warning people to watch out for the pig in the poke. A huge trend for companies like Google, Apple and now Microsoft over the last decade or so has been the transformation of software from a cash driver to a commodity, much like music. Microsoft fought that trend tooth and nail for quite some time (and in some product lines is still fighting it) but the writing is on the wall for all to read. Expect more efforts to monetize user interaction, not less. I personally see the necessity for doing it and support it completely if it means continued innovation and improvement to the platform.
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Doktor Avalanche 
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/06/10 22:18:45
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Don't get me started on Capitalism and globalism  Not the right forum for that...
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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kevinwal
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/06/11 13:04:33
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Sorry, I don't mean to be mashing anybody's hot buttons and I wasn't trying to start a political discussion. I was commenting on the pressures OS vendors are struggling with as they explore business models that work in an era of free or nearly free software. Google's very existence depends upon monetizing the entire user experience and the software they develop truly is what a previous poster seems to fear, a platform designed to exploit every conceivable revenue opportunity that a user's attention span offers. If one considers that way of doing business as evil, Microsoft is a charming altar boy compared to the Borgia pope that is Google.
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kevinwal
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/06/11 13:14:47
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John T
I've been doing some interesting work recently doing sound effects for a company that makes slot machines. Not your grandaddy's slot machine, but big high-budget Las Vegas casino stuff. The machines are fairly astounding. Great speakers, great high-resolution touch-screens, just spectacular tech.
Anyway, even though I've done lots of work in games and software before, I've never encountered a less Windows-y environment. The machines themselves run a bespoke version of QNX, and all the dev work is done on Linux. They've had me in working on-site, and I needed a Windows machine, and they had to go out and buy one; literally not one single Windows laptop in the entire company.
I reckon that's Microsoft's worst nightmare, that kind of thing. And their best hold on the professional environment is, somewhat ironically, in keeping a hold on the home user environment. The fact that everyone knows Windows from childhood nowadays, might be the strongest factor preventing the more corporate world from abandoning it. Free Windows for the end user means Windows carries on being the de-facto OS for the greatest number of potential employees.
QNX is a specialized OS designed to support real time requirements which is not something Windows or OSX or even Linux does particularly well, and I can see it being a great choice for slot machine development. It's also a derivative of UNIX so using Linux as the development platform makes a lot of sense for them as well. MS offered Windows CE in that space and it was a pretty major player for awhile, but I'm not sure if CE is still offered. If Windows continues to offer value it will do well. If it does not, things can change in the blink of an eye regardless of their current market share.
post edited by kevinwal - 2015/06/11 13:21:05
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/06/11 13:50:41
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kevinwal
Sorry, I don't mean to be mashing anybody's hot buttons and I wasn't trying to start a political discussion. I was commenting on the pressures OS vendors are struggling with as they explore business models that work in an era of free or nearly free software.
I wasn't commenting about you, I was commenting about myself... must resist the temptation Must resist... "Starbucks are ...."... OK I have to leave the room now....
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/06/11 13:57:37
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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CadErik
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/07/07 22:46:58
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☄ Helpfulby ...wicked 2015/07/28 19:35:52
SilkTone
Right now it is impossible to get low latency on WinRT (aka "modern"/Metro/toy apps) since they have removed all audio APIs that had any chance if giving you low latency, and only left shared mode WASAPI. Meaning a 160 ms round trip latency at best. I was in the process of porting a real app to a "modern" app and gave up once I realized this.
And people wonder why there are no "modern" quality audio apps in the Windows Store.
Actually, for Windows 10, they enabled the real time Audio APIs on all the platforms including phone, Windows Store, etc... Microsoft has a whole team working on Pro Audio now for the audio part. They are not a joke and seem to be testing all kinds of pro audio equipment...
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cparmerlee
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/07/07 23:03:48
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CadErik
Actually, for Windows 10, they enabled the real time Audio APIs on all the platforms including phone, Windows Store, etc... Microsoft has a whole team working on Pro Audio now for the audio part. They are not a joke and seem to be testing all kinds of pro audio equipment...
That's good to know. Part of this falls into the category of improving Windows to serve as a real-time OS as opposed to a basic multi-tasking OS. I have a colleague from the days when we both worked in a mainframe company. One of his specialties was the optimization of hardware, firmware and OS code to allow very efficient CPU dispatching that is necessary for real-time systems (distinct from transactional systems). When the mainframe era started to wind down, my colleague went to work for Microsoft, and I believe he has been working on similar projects there. The nature of the beast is that you have to think at the microsecond or nanosecond level, and you must have an understanding of how the instruction pipelines and multi-level memory caches respond to rapid context switches. Believe it or not, these are things that neither the hardware engineers nor the OS developers intuitively understand in most cases. Because of that, the process is more complicated than changing a few lines of code here and there. One essentially has to be an evangelist, and these "religious conversions" may take several generations of hardware and software to be fully realized. He's been working on this a long time. There is no question that Windows SERVER has made great strides in this area, and that was his primary concentration early on. But I expect Microsoft is extending that evolution to the consumer-level products now.
DAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/F: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen2
OS: Windows 10 64-bit CPU: Haswell 4790 4.0 GHz, 4 core, 8 thread Memory: 16 GB Video: GTX-760Ti
Storage: Sandisk SSD 500GB for active projects. ReadyNAS 20 TB for long-term storagesonocrafters.com
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djwayne
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/07/28 15:38:54
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deleted
post edited by djwayne - 2015/07/28 16:11:58
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/07/28 16:22:24
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Basically M$'s development strategy is what Linux has been doing for years and years.
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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...wicked
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/07/28 19:38:54
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Well I had to scroll through quite a bit of chaff but Jason's post was great to see!
I would guess the big issue is going to be drivers, I'll be watching and waiting to see people's experiences before taking the plunge. Actually I've been putting off a full-on DAW upgrade until this happens. Guess I better start saving my pennies! :-)
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
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djwayne
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/07/28 22:41:13
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Well I think I'm going to go ahead and upgrade to Windows 10 and hope for the best. I've read a lot of good things about it and a new browser and OS would indeed freshen up my stale computer. Security features should be better in W10, and it's an upgrade not a fresh re-install, so I shouldn't have to re-install Sonar Platinum, that would take quite a bit of time. My only concerns are compatibility with Adobe Audition and my M-Audio M-Track interface drivers.
Wish me luck.
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djwayne
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/07/29 12:17:43
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Well I did it, I upgraded to Windows 10....took about 45-50 minutes to install. Everything went very smooth. All my settings and applications were saved and work just fine. Sonar Platinum works 100%, no problems so far. W10 is loaded with lots of very nice new features and is very fast. Lot's of information at the touch of a button. It blows W7 out of the water. Very nice upgrade, glad I got it.
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mudgel
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/07/29 12:52:45
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Is there a real benefit derived from the talk of lower latency? Is anyone able to confirm that latency under Win 10 is lower than before?
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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John T
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/07/29 13:03:56
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I gather the latency improvements only apply to using standard windows audio drivers, like on internal sound cards and so on. No change for ASIO interfaces.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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LaszloZoltan
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/07/29 13:53:49
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have you had to reactivate any vsts yet ?
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djwayne
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/07/29 13:56:58
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No to vst activations. The only problem I'm having with W10 is the new browser Edge doesn't handle Favorites very well. They're listed A-Z and you can't re-organize them. some favorites don't show up. Other than that it's a great OS.
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RaymondVanMelzen
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/07/29 14:45:56
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I just had to reactivate all XLN stuff (Addictive Drums, Addictive Keys). Otherwise the upgrade was smooth and everything runs perfectly.
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djwayne
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/07/29 15:18:12
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I had to register my computer with the XLN website by running the online installer. I had to delete one of my registered computers on their website, because you're only allowed two computers...why I had two I don't know, but I deleted one then added my computer with the new OS. The pop-up didn't have a selection for Windows 10 so I selected other and that worked fine. Now my XLN products are working....If that's all that's wrong I'll be happy.
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Steve Lum
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/07/29 16:03:54
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I was just looking at Native Instruments site and they recommend against upgrading to W10 until they have completed their testing. This is probably super-conservative protection-speak from NI, but have any of our W10 converts successfully run projects with NI plugs, e.g. Kontakt, etc. ?
Steve Lum Asus Sabertooth X79 Intel Core i7-4820K 32GB Focusrite Saffire Pro 40
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Thedoccal
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/07/29 16:14:51
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Cakewalk Roland UA-1G shows as "compatible" on the Microsoft Win 10 Compatibility search page...so I am going to go for it on this computer...
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cclarry
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/07/29 16:23:12
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I've been running Sonar Platinum on Win 10 for months...no issues...
I also run Pro Tools, Studio One 3 Prof, Reaper, etc..and they all
work just fine. All my drivers work just fine...so I wouldn't be afraid.
There could be problems with anything...but I took the chance and am quite
satisfied with the results...
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djwayne
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/07/29 16:32:57
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Well I have the favorites issues sorted out, not perfect, but I can live with it. A bit awkward but as with anything new, it takes time to get used to it. The Edge browser is really fast though, that's why I like it.
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outland144k
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/07/29 17:36:05
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I have a MOTU Midi Express 128 I am concerned about (before I switch to Win 10). The driver gets tossed in Win 7 often when starting Sonar (any version, really since Sonar 8) and I've some issues with other software in the past. I've gotten the impression over the years that MOTU's just not too interested in PC stuff generally, so I worry about driver issues with Win 10 not getting sorted out for a while if/when they occur. Anyone, perchance, have experience with this and Win 10?
post edited by outland144k - 2015/07/29 18:03:21
“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless. 
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Thedoccal
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/07/29 17:43:01
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After finishing the installation of Windows 10, My APro keyboard and UA-1G drivers are not working. They both show as incompatible with no new driver available
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outland144k
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/07/29 17:58:46
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Thedoccal
After finishing the installation of Windows 10, My APro keyboard and UA-1G drivers are not working. They both show as incompatible with no new driver available
What are your options? Is there anything at all on the manufacturers' websites?
“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/07/29 19:36:33
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☄ Helpfulby Thedoccal 2015/07/30 04:06:28
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Sonar + Windows 10
2015/07/29 19:39:37
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☄ Helpfulby Thedoccal 2015/07/30 04:06:46
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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