sergiobklyn
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/04 20:50:45
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musicman100
Please you newcomers, do a search on this topic. It has been begged for and the topic beat to death for many years. Threats, comparisons, boycotts, etc, have all been broached. True integrated scoring is not going to happen.....Just accept it or move on /
Newcomers? I've been a member of this forum longer than you. Maybe you should be the one to do a search on this topic and read the same question that I posted when X1 came out ( http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2119593). The first reply came from Brandon: We do realize Staff View is important to a good portion of SONAR users and we do still hope to enhance the Staff View more substantially in the future under the framework of the new Skylight interface. I don't think that, with a reply like that, it's unreasonable for us to expect notation improvement. I don't want full notation capabilities but something simple that does work. Try viewing a triplet rest under staff view. That's just plain sad. Sergio
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John
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/04 22:04:30
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djwayne
Sonar is what it is. Expecting something more and crying about it is like going to a restaurant ordering a steak then complaining because it doesn't come with shrimp too.
Sonar is what it is today. That has no barring on what it will be tomorrow. Through the years we as users have asked for and gotten a great many improvements in Sonar. There is no reason for us to stop asking for this improvement simply because it is taking a long time to get. All that means to me is we need to put more pressure on it. You sir benefit greatly by our efforts. Would like me to list what I have asked for over the years and gotten? Everyone that proposes an improvement to Sonar is doing us all a service. Because this issue is a long standing one does not mean it is never going to be implemented as requested. Its simply a matter of will on the part of CW to get it done. Judging by CW's responses through the years it is in fact something they know about and would like to address. I also strongly believe it is a very important issue. One that should be brought up from time to time until we get it. But it will come that I am sure of. The question is when.
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Jimbo 88
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/04 22:09:54
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sergiobklyn
musicman100
Please you newcomers, do a search on this topic. It has been begged for and the topic beat to death for many years. Threats, comparisons, boycotts, etc, have all been broached. True integrated scoring is not going to happen.....Just accept it or move on /
Newcomers? I've been a member of this forum longer than you. Maybe you should be the one to do a search on this topic and read the same question that I posted when X1 came out (http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2119593). The first reply came from Brandon:
We do realize Staff View is important to a good portion of SONAR users and we do still hope to enhance the Staff View more substantially in the future under the framework of the new Skylight interface.
I don't think that, with a reply like that, it's unreasonable for us to expect notation improvement.
I don't want full notation capabilities but something simple that does work. Try viewing a triplet rest under staff view. That's just plain sad.
Sergio
John
djwayne
Sonar is what it is. Expecting something more and crying about it is like going to a restaurant ordering a steak then complaining because it doesn't come with shrimp too.
Sonar is what it is today. That has no barring on what it will be tomorrow.
Through the years we as users have asked for and gotten a great many improvements in Sonar. There is no reason for us to stop asking for this improvement simply because it is taking a long time to get. All that means to me is we need to put more pressure on it.
You sir benefit greatly by our efforts. Would like me to list what I have asked for over the years and gotten? Everyone that proposes an improvement to Sonar is doing us all a service. Because this issue is a long standing one does not mean it is never going to be implemented as requested.
Its simply a matter of will on the part of CW to get it done. Judging by CW's responses through the years it is in fact something they know about and would like to address.
I also strongly believe it is a very important issue. One that should be brought up from time to time until we get it.
But it will come that I am sure of. The question is when.
THANK YOU John THANK YOU Sergio So better said than anything I have..... musicman100 is a good guy with a good point tho
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Beepster
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/04 22:45:18
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The thing some folks need to understand is yes the forum is a great place for us to learn and chat but it also serves a HUGE purpose to Cakewalk and its parent company Roland. This is pretty much the best form of free market research you can get. If everyone just clammed up and were afraid to voice an opinion lest *gasp* someone may find that view contrary to their own you would end up with products that are based on blind boot licking that serve no real purpose or function to anyone in the real world. Cake gave us this forum to voice our opinions and connect with each other. Not to placate their egos. As John said, when people here speak their minds the products get better. That is a good thing. Peace.
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skylightron
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/04 23:36:15
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Sergio and everyone who wants better integrated Notation for X2... It's not happening just like I have to accept that X1e isn't happening. We all want something and somethings improved but it doesn't mean we'll get what we ask for. Notation isn't high on their list of features unless they are just taking their time and plan on rolling it out in a future version. Heck, all of the Expanded features were meant to be X2 features from the get go but they rolled those features out as an upgrade and continued work on the remaining features of X2 because they weren't ready to take the cake out of the oven. They never planned on continuing to do an Expanded version, it was solely for X1 and they already knew it would be back to the 3 versions.
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aj
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 06:15:04
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Eventually I tired of waiting for notation improvements and after staying with Sonar from version 2 right through to 8.1, I jumped ship to Reaper. But wait, I hear you say. Reaper has no notation functionality at all!. Absolutely true, but there was no reason for persevering with Sonar's less than stable audio engine and quirkiness as a VST host any longer. I swapped these for rock-solid stability and decided to do any notation stuff externally. Every few years I pop back to the forum when a new version of Sonar is announced, in the (vain) hope that Cakewalk will actually do something about this - I'd definitely upgrade to a new version of Sonar if - finally - the integrated notation was actually improved beyond the point of marginally usable. It mystifies me utterly that Cake ignore this area. It's like having a word processor that only has one font and in capitals only, doesn't do justification and can't insert page breaks. I can only conjecture that Cake's target market (in their marketing people's minds, at any rate) are teenage rap artists and bedroom tinkerers with a keyboard in the corner on which are sticky labels with note names, who believe that, if only they had a perfectly accurate emulation of some vintage console channel strip, they'd be making hit records. That's utterly condescending to the majority of *real* users, of course - and, by the way I mean no offence to teenage rap artists - I just infer that, quite rightly, they don't really need notation - but I just cannot figure out any other rational explanation for the current situation.
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synkrotron
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 08:38:29
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post edited by synkrotron - 2012/08/11 04:11:07
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djwayne
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 09:09:21
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It's not a matter of "bootlicking" it's a matter of appreciating what is there. Sonar works well for me and my needs. I don't need notation and I don't want to be forced into paying for it or the developement of it. You guys have been bashing Sonar over this for quite some time. It's time to get a life. Sonar, love it or leave it.
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John
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 09:17:01
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djwayne
It's not a matter of "bootlicking" it's a matter of appreciating what is there. Sonar works well for me and my needs. I don't need notation and I don't want to be forced into paying for it or the developement of it. You guys have been bashing Sonar over this for quite some time. It's time to get a life. Sonar, love it or leave it.
This is a joke, right? In case it isn't the last line is so cliche that it reads like a joke. I wont comment on the other ideas held within your post except to say, how selfish.
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djwayne
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 09:22:03
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Why should I have to pay for software developement that YOU want ?? I would prefer Cakewalk spends their developement money on stability and new features. Notation is something I don't need.
You're asking me to chip in and pay for this developement. Forget it !! Maybe you'd like to buy me some software ?? Of course you wouldn't. But I'm being selfish ????
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djwayne
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 09:43:13
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Let's look at it this way...Let's say Cakewalk does develope notation software and makes it so it is integrated, how many of you would pay the extra $500 that it costs ?? You think software grows on trees ?? It costs money to develope it and Cakewalk would have to recoupe that somehow...
Look if I want notation I'll buy a notation program or use one of the free ones out there. But I don't use it !!
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John
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 09:46:00
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djwayne
Why should I have to pay for software developement that YOU want ?? I would prefer Cakewalk spends their developement money on stability and new features. Notation is something I don't need.
You're asking me to chip in and pay for this developement. Forget it !! Maybe you'd like to buy me some software ?? Of course you wouldn't. But I'm being selfish ????
You've been paying for it all along but not getting much from it. If it were improved it may prove to be worth what you contribute. It also might bring forth new users that would share the cost and thus bring it down. That assumes that your part in it is measurable.
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John
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 09:47:49
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djwayne
Let's look at it this way...Let's say Cakewalk does develope notation software and makes it so it is integrated, how many of you would pay the extra $500 that it costs ?? You think software grows on trees ?? It costs money to develope it and Cakewalk would have to recoupe that somehow...
Look if I want notation I'll buy a notation program or use one of the free ones out there. But I don't use it !!
You do know that it is already in there. Its called the Staff View. Take a look at it.
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djwayne
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 09:52:58
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Yes I'm well aware of the current staff view, and that is more than what I need.
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Elffin
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 10:07:18
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I've invested in cakewalk products since version 1. I've spent years developing templates, drum maps and developed workflow strategies without even counting the number of projects created during the last decade or so..
Really appreciate the advice to leave Sonar.. That really does provide me with a 'fix'.
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djwayne
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 10:23:21
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The more things you demand from Sonar, the higher the price will be.
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pathos
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 10:29:24
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djwayne
The more things you demand from Sonar, the higher the price will be.
Then using your own philosophy I think they should get rid of Pro Channel only because I don't use it, I shouldn't pay extra for it & it's development. Doesn't make sense , does it?
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Brando
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 10:31:54
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djwayne
Look if I want notation I'll buy a notation program or use one of the free ones out there. But I don't use it !!
It is not (only) about notation. If it were, I don't think as many would be upset about it. It is about using an existing view (the staff view) for composition, just as many use the piano roll, etc. Fixing an existing feature that is broken and hasn't worked right for years, while other features (step sequencer, matrix view) have been added. (As many have said - just exporting a MIDI file (or an XML file) to a notation program does not provide the same accuracy/workflow advantage of being able to compose right in the DAW.) You might not listen to your radio in your car - but you expect it to work when you turn it on, right?
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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John
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 10:38:02
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djwayne
The more things you demand from Sonar, the higher the price will be.
Where did you get that idea from? It seems to trend in the opposite way. Let me see if I recall Sonar 1 XL had very few things in common with X1 as far as features. It didn't even support VST or ASIO. No audio snap. No making on the fly buses, meaning to add a buss one had to restart Sonar. The feature list in Sonar X1 would overwhelm Sonar 1 XL. Yet the price has gone down drastically both for upgrades and for new purchases. This is a fact. You have no evidence to support your position. It seems by any measure you are more than just wrong in your assessment but obtusely wrong. Making things up is no way to persuade others to your view point. All it does is destroy your credibility.
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John
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 10:41:00
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lowdown
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 10:45:44
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I would prefer Cakewalk spends their developement money on stability and new features
Would this be new features you want - and maybe others don't ? Garry
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djwayne
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 10:45:58
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Well I have no say in it, you'll have to talk to the developers at Cakewalk. They'll be the ones to decide on what program features to develope.
So you're on you own guys.
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John
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 10:51:29
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Well thank you for your support.
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djwayne
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 10:51:32
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thebiglongy
Perhaps you should get a petition on the forum lol. Get all members to agree NOT to upgrade until they give clear information on what if anything is happening with the Notation abilities of Sonar. It's not as if this is a new issue, I've watched this come up over and over again yet nothing done, a little show of solidarity for those who compose using notation wouldn't go a miss. I for one, will happily hold out to support those who need notation (don't use it myself).
I absolutely will NOT boycott upgrading Sonar over this issue.
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vintagevibe
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 10:58:07
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Whenever this issue comes up the trolls come out of the woodwork. They are appalled at the idea of Cakewalk working on anything they personally don't need and the don't understand the roll of notation in a DAW. Many times they are 12 year old kids and the conversation progresses accordingly.
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djwayne
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 11:03:45
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vintagevibe
Whenever this issue comes up the trolls come out of the woodwork. They are appalled at the idea of Cakewalk working on anything they personally don't need and the don't understand the roll of notation in a DAW. Many times they are 12 year old kids and the conversation progresses accordingly.
And who do you think you are ?? Beethoven ?? You want to score music like Beethoven ?? Well get a piece of paper and a pencil and get to work.
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trimph1
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 11:05:33
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djwayne
vintagevibe
Whenever this issue comes up the trolls come out of the woodwork. They are appalled at the idea of Cakewalk working on anything they personally don't need and the don't understand the roll of notation in a DAW. Many times they are 12 year old kids and the conversation progresses accordingly.
And who do you think you are ?? Beethoven ?? You want to score music like Beethoven ?? Well get a piece of paper and a pencil and get to work.
I don't use it much myself but, seriously DJ, get a life..... 
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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vintagevibe
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 11:18:35
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djwayne
vintagevibe
Whenever this issue comes up the trolls come out of the woodwork. They are appalled at the idea of Cakewalk working on anything they personally don't need and the don't understand the roll of notation in a DAW. Many times they are 12 year old kids and the conversation progresses accordingly.
And who do you think you are ?? Beethoven ?? You want to score music like Beethoven ?? Well get a piece of paper and a pencil and get to work.
Point illustrated.
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djwayne
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 11:53:57
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pathos
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Re:Sonar X2 Notation
2012/08/05 12:04:37
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vintagevibe
Whenever this issue comes up the trolls come out of the woodwork. They are appalled at the idea of Cakewalk working on anything they personally don't need and the don't understand the roll of notation in a DAW. Many times they are 12 year old kids and the conversation progresses accordingly.
Correct, then again sometimes the 12 year old kids have more common sense than some of the old farts.
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