Anderton
I wouldn't be so hard on Roland. Their expertise is as a hardware company, and of course Cakewalk is software, and IMHO the two never quite synched up the way it was hoped they would. During the acquisition Roland was straightforward in their dealings, and provided support on several levels during the transition.
 

Sorry if it sounded harsh. My analogy may sound negative but I meant it more as matter of fact.

Anderton
...Editor is a paid upgrade (typically $150)...

Apparently not at present. This offer has expired. There is a $149 upgrade to Assistant but not to Ediror.

I have to say I am disappointed with Melodyne. I was so excited to finally get a built-in tool that would help do some quick vocal harmonies, but it doesn't do a very good job, have to finalise in V-Vocal. I would have preferred if they had just tweaked V-vocal to do the few good bits of Melodyne.
 
I only have the version that comes with X3, but then X3 cost enough already.
 
I accept that the full version may be much better, but I find the manipulation of the waveforms is not as good as V-Vocal, it also seems to do strange things like moving other notes around elsewhere in the bar when I change a note. I would have thought with snap to scale off I should be able to put any note anywhere I want.
 
Again maybe its me, but why cant I put the play marker where I want in the Melodyne window? It sometimes jumps to where I click, but mostly doesn't, so I have to move it in the track window.
 
I think I can answer my own question - the most likely answer is that the full version is better and I should read up. Then my reply is I have not had to read a single thing to get very good results from V-Vocal, lazy I know, but I hate wasting time if the interface can be intuitive.
 
 

slumbermachine
This thread has illuminati all over it.

Excellent distraction (time to call the mothership ...)...

Thanks for taking the time to explain, I will play a bit more, I thought I had tried clicking just about everywhere for the play marker. It seems to work once then not again, maybe a bug.

The notes jump scale. If I set snap to scale and then move it all up, some don't sound right, so there are just a few individual notes in the piece I want to move, so I grab one and drag it up or down and another note further along jumps up or down, usually by quite a few steps. Try to put it back and the one I moved jumps. Turn off snap to scale and it still does it. Also there seems to be no undo, no curl z either. So I can't get it back to how it was. Once it has screwed up the clip I have to exit and remove the edit.

Everyone seem to love Melodyne, I'll just have to try harder I guess

I think Melodyne (I have Editor) is superior to V-vocal in sound. It is harder to use, but once you get the hang of it, it is a great piece of software.  I'm still far away from a power user, but I can get more natural sounding results about two semitones farther from the original pitch than with V-vocal, which is great for harmonies that still sound fairly normal.

 
Is V-vocal 64 bit?

The big problem with comparing them is that the version of Melodyne that comes with SONAR is missing the formant manipulation tools, which is really key to getting realistic sounding pitch shifts.
 
It's a shame that they didn't include that with the basic tool. While I understand wanting to hook users on the upgrade path removing essential tools doesn't help it stand as a true replacement tool.
 

hi all,
just read this thread from start to finish(it`s cold and wet outside)and am wondering what a newbie would make of it.
I can appreciate correction if you have constructed a backing track and all it needs is vocals but you are a guitarist and drum programmer etc but can`t hold pitch or tune and don`t have a vocalist available.This is fine if you are a songwriter/composer and literally a one man band but to me,reading this,there is an inference that voice correction is a production tool along with panning and eq.
I have yet to record a vocalist who doubted their ability,regardless of their technical prowess as by the time they are confidant enough or have saved enough to record they,or the band are happy with the sound they have.
Leo Kottke said his voice sounded like "geese farts in mud" and raw emotion and alternative phrasing can distinguish an artist or song.
i guess what i am trying to say is are there VV/ME equivalents for guitar,bass,horns etc?
to be a vocalist is no different to being any other musician-whether it be a chord chart or sheet music or a guide track,if you cannot replicate or successfully interpret the music in your chosen field then relying on post production correction,to me,will not encourage young vocalists to tackle the established technical trials that will improve their range and accuracy-why bother with singing lessons when you can fast track your way in post production?
don`t get me wrong,if i record a drummer who is reluctant to remove half a roll of gaffa tape from his/her kit i give them the option of Drumagog(without alignment!)on the skins and most are happy to accept and learn from it.
why should vocals be exempt from ability and technique when everyone else has to cut it?
once again,for the hobbyist it is probably a valuable tool to complete a project but,in my case, for live recording it seems counterproductive if you,as an engineer are striving to record as accurately as possible the music that is being played.
 
footnote:am currently tracking a demo for a pretty hardcore screamo band and if VV or ME can help me interpret the shouting/lyrics i will gladly give it a go
cheers
tony
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
Pitch correction is like any production tool - you can use it, or abuse it. When you've cut an inspired vocal but one of the notes in the middle of a complex run is flat, why drag down the session and re-cut another vocal, hoping you'll get something as good, when you can just dive in, fix that one note, and get on with the session?




that`s an excellent point-especially if time and budget are limited and as you say,why drag down the whole session.
usually,in my environment, the offender knows they have hit a bummer and request another take and it`s not unusual to have 3 or 4 takes to get it right and of course there is the ability to overdub later if necessary and if the band is tight enough,substitute the vocal take from a previous version.
 
thanks for the insight-I have very little knowledge of how a commercial,ie:professional studio runs and just plod along so I guess I will take your advice,get ME Editor and save myself and the singer(s) a lot of time and unnecessary  takes.
cheers
tony
 

I thought i would give an update, I have officially become a convert to Melodyne essentials.
 
What changed my opinion?
 
A couple of things.
 
Over a long time of using v-vocal I began to hear a certain unpleasant distorted coloration that v-vocal was adding to my vocals. That was before even adding pitch change or any edits. I suspect it is melodyne that is handing v-vocal a corrupted file to work with. None the less the v-vocal wave is terrible sounding to my ears now.
 
Also I found a way to disable melodyne's snap to grid pitch and timing features. So everything is free floating.
 
Also the tiny faint grid lines when I set melodyne to high contrast and zoom in I can actually see them now.
 
The copy of my vocals that ends up in the the melodyne editing window is much better sounding than how melodyne has been passing the wave off to v-vocal. Melodyne is like a virus once it was added to cakewalk the waves melodyne passed off to v-vocal are muddy and distorted.  If I use melodyne in a project and try and place a v-vocal wave on a clip my cakewalk freezes up. (Thanks melodyne)
 
Well melodyne essential has some nice features and sounds REALLY great (as long as I do not use its auto correct features and edits timing/pitch by hand). It is actually a lifesaver considering v-vocal is muddying my clips terribly now even when working in high def files. 
 
I will be using melodyne now exclusively. Too bad essentials does not have amplitude editing capabilities but track envelopes are a great workaround for that.
 
Bending notes and splitting notes are also a rub with melodyne essentials. If I fuss and fidget with the notes i can usually get most things to work. And there is always the option of simply re-singing a phrase so it is more spot on. 
 
V-vocal has officially been laid to rest, please send no flowers, just make a charitable donation to your favorite cause. :)
 
RIP v-vocal
 
Summers So Green - RexRed
http://www.reverbnation.com/rexredmusicartist/song/22972293-summers-so-green
 
Vocal edited with melodyne

I will only apply v-vocal to a tiny portion of a clip now if needed because of the muddy distortion I have noticed in the way v-vocal is handed the the original clip from melodyne.
 
It is called ARA a progress meter goes by real quick when v-vocal is processing the wave for editing. V-vocal is not receiving the same pristine wave for editing that melodyne is receiving from ARA. 
 
It takes a while to hear/detect/notice the distorted wave at first in v-vocal but now I hear the distortion all the time it is VERY slight but unacceptable to me.

Anderton
I'm at a disadvantage because I upgraded to Editor

Since you are prolly gonna be round for a while, I think you should setup 3 test-bed computers, one each with the default installation of each version of Sonar.
 
For you have volunteered to be Sonar's Mr. Wizard.

RexRed
I will only apply v-vocal to a tiny portion of a clip now if needed because of the muddy distortion I have noticed in the way v-vocal is handed the the original clip from melodyne.

The audio file does not pass through Melodyne unless you process with Melodyne. Why would you process with Melodyne, then hand it off to V-Vocal. That's like sending a reverb into another reverb... Sure - if your after something weird and wonderful it may work, but not normally.