John T
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/28 18:53:29
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Orphaned at Birth
Yes Alex could be annoying, but he didn't really do anything wrong, unless you count pointing out Cakewalks and Sonars issues and deficiencies, which of course aren't welcome here, so they seized the day and silenced him.
Well, that's one interpretation. Another would be this: There are people here day in day out, talking at length about Sonar issues and deficiencies as they see them, often fairly bluntly and harshly, and they don't, as rule, get banned. So you know, maybe it was the "being annoying" part that led to the ban.
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deswind
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/28 21:28:08
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Sorry - I do not have time to read this whole thread. Does LANDR affect eq or mostly dynamics? THANKS.
post edited by deswind - 2016/02/28 21:42:21
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Anderton
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/28 21:33:31
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☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2016/03/01 14:01:57
John T
Orphaned at Birth
Yes Alex could be annoying, but he didn't really do anything wrong, unless you count pointing out Cakewalks and Sonars issues and deficiencies, which of course aren't welcome here, so they seized the day and silenced him.
Well, that's one interpretation.
Another would be this: There are people here day in day out, talking at length about Sonar issues and deficiencies as they see them, often fairly bluntly and harshly, and they don't, as rule, get banned.
So you know, maybe it was the "being annoying" part that led to the ban.
Anyone who thinks that people aren't allowed to say negative things about SONAR in these forums either can't read or can't think.
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Anderton
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/28 21:34:16
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deswind
Sorry - I do not have time to read this whole thread. Does LANDR affect eq or mostly dynamics?
THANKS.
I've conducted some tests to see how LANDR would affect the parameters under test. So far I've identified EQ, multiband dynamics, and imaging. The extent to which it processes depends on which "intensity" you choose. I think LANDR's biggest user error issue is having the High intensity one be the default. A lot of people don't realize there are options.
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deswind
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/28 23:11:57
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Thanks Craig! I am interested to find out how it changed eq. For instance, does it have a preferred eq layout and then measures the eq of the song submitted and applies the changes. Would be interesting.
Eq is my most difficult tasking in finalizing or mastering. What is the reference. Everytime I figure out a CD for a reference, I hear a new one - and think - wow that one is awesome. So much to balance!
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Kamikaze
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/28 23:24:46
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Anderton
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/28 23:28:30
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☄ Helpfulby mdages 2016/03/02 16:32:50
Well I've done several tests with LANDR to try and reverse engineer what it does, mostly by trying to fool it  Long before there was any discussion at Cakewalk about LANDR, I wrote a column about online mastering for Pro Sound News (IIRC correctly it was in September). I basically detailed what I thought were the pros and cons, which over time, have been shown to be correct. Probably the test of greatest interest to you was I mixed two files, one with too much emphasis at around 400 Hz, and one with too much emphasis at around 1.5 k, then fed them both into LANDR to see what would happen. LANDR reduced the 400 Hz in the first file and the 1.5 kHz in the second file. It was not reduced as much as I would have reduced it, but I assume that's because LANDR thought the peaks must have been mixed up that high for a reason, whereas I would have just assumed someone didn't know how to mix . One element of mastering that has been consistently overlooked is there is not one and only one "correct" way to master a song. All mastering engineers make value judgments. The best example I can give is of a mastering job where I got the files just before the client went off to Italy. Normally I do a lot of back-and-forth with clients, basically interviewing them to find out what their vision of the music is so I can enhance it as much as possible. But I didn't have that opportunity because she was out of contact. The song could have been mastered as a more "chill" piece by pulling back on the kick a kit a bit and bringing down the highs where the percussion lived. Or, it could have been mastered as more of a club mix by bringing up the kick a bit, especially the beater, highlighting the high end a bit more, and speeding up the tempo by 2%. I had no idea which one she wanted, so I did two versions. When she came back, she said it hadn't occurred to her it could be done both ways...she ended up using them both, one as an alternate mix.
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bapu
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/29 12:46:24
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But, can a mastering engineer make EVERYTHING louder than EVERYTHING else or is that the eminent domain of the mixer?
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jpetersen
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/29 19:16:47
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So that sounds like spectral analysis is happening.
If a LANDR-processed file is re-submitted, I would imagine LANDR then does nothing?
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mettelus
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/29 22:01:19
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In theory that should be the case, but they specifically request headroom. However, one could get a master back from them, normalize it down to the headroom they specify and resubmit it to see. It would be interesting to see the results of that - whether they simply bump it back up so the masters match, or process it further.
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M@
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/03/01 11:02:54
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Just a thought:
If I'd programme (or rather;have someone programme) something like LANDR I'd encode some kind of (encrypted?) signature in each export with info on what/when has been processed.
Amongst others to avoid unwanted results.....
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chuckebaby
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/03/01 13:39:30
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Anderton
John T
Orphaned at Birth
Yes Alex could be annoying, but he didn't really do anything wrong, unless you count pointing out Cakewalks and Sonars issues and deficiencies, which of course aren't welcome here, so they seized the day and silenced him.
Well, that's one interpretation.
Another would be this: There are people here day in day out, talking at length about Sonar issues and deficiencies as they see them, often fairly bluntly and harshly, and they don't, as rule, get banned.
So you know, maybe it was the "being annoying" part that led to the ban.
Anyone who thinks that people aren't allowed to say negative things about SONAR in these forums either can't read or can't think.
I think these forums are very fair. cakewalk tolerates quite a bit...I think its because they value everyone's opinion. they also respect feedback good or bad. However, with that said, its the insults we could all do without.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/03/01 13:54:26
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2016/03/01 14:50:33
bapu
But, can a mastering engineer make EVERYTHING louder than EVERYTHING else or is that the eminent domain of the mixer?
Oh yes Edwidge........ 
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panup
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/03/01 14:14:58
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Anderton
I think LANDR's biggest user error issue is having the High intensity one be the default. A lot of people don't realize there are options.
Are you sure it's high? Medium has been default in all mixes I have sent to LANDR.
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gswitz
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/03/01 15:03:00
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In my experience, landr has picked different defaults for different mixes. It does not automatically go to one or another. By this in meaning the high, medium or low setting. I find not being in control of this tedious and a waste of time.
If you repeatedly submit the same mix you will follow some path of gradient decent I think.
There is not a pat EQ used. I have analyzed EQ applied repeatedly and in each track it has differed. It differs more between bands. In other words the EQ for the songs by one band might have more commonalities than landr EQ changes when contrasted with those for another band.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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batsbrew
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/03/01 15:08:13
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i have yet to hear one good landr mastered file.
post a pre-mastered wav..
and post the corresponding landr master.
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fitzj
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/03/01 17:20:35
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Is it free to use this software LANDR as part of the new update?
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fitzj
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/03/01 17:24:07
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What does it do to an already well mastered song?
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artturner
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/03/01 17:29:37
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batsbrew
i have yet to hear one good landr mastered file.
post a pre-mastered wav..
and post the corresponding landr master.
That's what I did in post 226 of this thread: http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3377938
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Jimmy Landry [Cakewalk]
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/03/01 18:04:15
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☄ Helpfulby tenfoot 2016/03/01 18:39:08
Hi all, I just finally got through reading this thread and I love seeing all the interaction. I try to jump in once in a while when I feel like I have something worthy to add, but as you can see from my profile I don't post often enough  A few folks mentioned they would like to see more Landr examples so I posted 5 masters of the same song to a SoundCloud Playlist. One of them is the actual master on the record by a well known facility (and guy) here in NYC that mastered the record, another is the original that I handed off to him. https://soundcloud.com/cakewalksoftware/sets/landr-test-1 All the titles are pretty much self explanatory. I've done more tests than this track and have had good results actually. I find that it really varies from genre to genre too. Before Cakewalk I did a lot of pop and rock stuff for my job, so I really pay attention to Kick, Snare and openness of Cymbals and room mics when it comes to this stuff. The HIGH setting crunched a few of the mixes I fed it, but I also tend to mix a bit hot. I personally think that having Landr as an option for SONAR is beneficial to the program as a whole, but that's just me (and for the record... "Landry" is not affiliated with "LANDR"?  ) Thanks, Jimmy
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kitekrazy1
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/03/01 19:04:13
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Jimmy Landry [Cakewalk]
Hi all,
I just finally got through reading this thread and I love seeing all the interaction. I try to jump in once in a while when I feel like I have something worthy to add, but as you can see from my profile I don't post often enough A few folks mentioned they would like to see more Landr examples so I posted 5 masters of the same song to a SoundCloud Playlist. One of them is the actual master on the record by a well known facility (and guy) here in NYC that mastered the record, another is the original that I handed off to him.
https://soundcloud.com/cakewalksoftware/sets/landr-test-1
All the titles are pretty much self explanatory.
I've done more tests than this track and have had good results actually. I find that it really varies from genre to genre too. Before Cakewalk I did a lot of pop and rock stuff for my job, so I really pay attention to Kick, Snare and openness of Cymbals and room mics when it comes to this stuff. The HIGH setting crunched a few of the mixes I fed it, but I also tend to mix a bit hot.
I personally think that having Landr as an option for SONAR is beneficial to the program as a whole, but that's just me (and for the record... "Landry" is not affiliated with "LANDR"?)
Thanks,
Jimmy
Post of the week!
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notscruffy2
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/03/01 19:12:00
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Bravest man I ever saw.
amk
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mettelus
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/03/01 19:13:15
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LOL, oh well, I started that one and only Jim can put it to rest.
Next venture will be RANDL(E) for dyslexic musicians (with 5.1 support).
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Anderton
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/03/01 19:38:59
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fitzj
What does it do to an already well mastered song?
I gave it a song I thought was well-mastered to see if I could fool it. On the low-intensity setting, it did essentially nothing. On the higher intensities, it goosed the dynamics.
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Anderton
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/03/01 19:47:35
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Jimmy Landry [Cakewalk]
A few folks mentioned they would like to see more Landr examples so I posted 5 masters of the same song to a SoundCloud Playlist. One of them is the actual master on the record by a well known facility (and guy) here in NYC that mastered the record, another is the original that I handed off to him.
https://soundcloud.com/cakewalksoftware/sets/landr-test-1
Very interesting...but what would have been more interesting is if you hadn't identified which was which, and asked people to rate them from "liked the least" to "liked the most." The takeaways would be 1) determining if one particular mastering "style" was a hands-down favorite, and 2) whether people could tell which were LANDRed and which weren't.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/03/01 19:50:30
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Yes , A Blind Test Please Kenny
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tenfoot
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/03/01 19:56:18
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kennywtelejazz
Yes , A Blind Test Please
Kenny
I'm with Kenny - that would be fun:)
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/03/01 21:39:06
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tenfoot
kennywtelejazz
Yes , A Blind Test Please
Kenny
I'm with Kenny - that would be fun:)
I would love to take the credit for that idea . Yet , Craig's post right before mine hinted at that Idea , It would be awesome if any one of the top tier power Cakewalk users here on the forum with a proven track record in the industry decided to post some music while using LANDR as some of the Mastered examples in a blind test .... I suppose if Jimmy wanted to , he could temporarily edit his song titles on Sound Cloud if that was something he wanted to do ...the music has only been up a short time ..a couple of hrs ...yet , it is not my right to say what anyone should do .... Kenny
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tenfoot
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/03/01 22:28:16
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kennywtelejazz
tenfoot
kennywtelejazz
Yes , A Blind Test Please
Kenny
I'm with Kenny - that would be fun:)
I would love to take the credit for that idea . Yet , Craig's post right before mine hinted at that Idea ,
It would be awesome if any one of the top tier power Cakewalk users here on the forum with a proven track record in the industry decided to post some music while using LANDR as some of the Mastered examples in a blind test ....
I suppose if Jimmy wanted to , he could temporarily edit his song titles on Sound Cloud if that was something he wanted to do ...the music has only been up a short time ..a couple of hrs ...yet , it is not my right to say what anyone should do ....
Kenny
Indeed it did. I'm with Kenny and Craig then:)
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skinnybones lampshade
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/03/01 23:06:22
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Okay, this is the first song I've ever shared .... it's one of my own, mastered on the low setting by LandR. I don't have a before and after right now but if you're interested I could supply the before (yes, this IS the after). Please don't rip me apart  .. I hope the link works. updated version link https://soundcloud.com/laura-thomson-723335445/mar16-pedal-faster11-to-landr-landr-low
post edited by skinnybones lampshade - 2016/03/05 17:25:04
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