I have the ability to read..
 
If you subtract $99 from the multi-million sales figures of X1 i would suspect that said stated sales success would still be a sales success?...
 
 
pianodano

Mystic38


This is an excellent example of the pot calling the kettle black as there is an equal if not more so number of members whose sole contribution in the X1 forum (repeat X1 forum) is to rubbish and deride X1 cakewalk and its staff.. this quoted post included..
 
The not late breaking news is that Cakewalk's new DAW is X1..  and any crash and burn in cakewalk sales from your doom and gloom scenario would come primarily as a result of taking away the huge UI improvements introduced in X1...  and note your dollars are already NOT included in said stated sales success.
 
Given that X1 is a new product, you have exercised your personal right not to buy it, however luckily your 8.5.3 will continue to work perfectly for you, and, with a dedicated computer you will have a good ten years without having to learn or adapt to anything...
 
If you wish for ongoing support for 8.5.3 then there is a forum room where you can lobby for that... this room is for the X1 version of Sonar..
 
thank you.

pianodano

As a user myself that has spent years learning the complexities and ins and outs of Sonar prior to X1, I also think that it had a certain elegance and that it allowed power users to quickly and intituitvely do nearly anything with little effort.
 
There was a reason for that. It was because that it was developed and worked out over and with years of user feedback. That is important to understand. So now they serve up this complete redesign that was developed over a few months in some room by a few programmers that THINK they know what a DAW is supposed to look like.
 
They have made a grave mistake. The biggest car makers on earth had their clocks cleaned using the same thinking, ie; they knew what a car was supposed to look and perfom like. So people took their money elsewhere.
 
 I also think that what they have done has nothing to do with making a more sophisticated DAW. But rather instead, simply a dumbed down version of our great software that, as aleady stated, through the years dedicated users had provided untold thousands of hours of experience and feedback in efforts to get it where it was prior to X1.
 
So now from all reports, Cakewalk proudly states that X1 shows the biggest sales ever. As a businessman myself, I strongly believe that is spoken of as product turnover. Not gross sales.
 
In my mind, why anyone would even entertain the idea of converting somthing fabulous that was clearly worth much more than $500.00 retail, and turn it into something that offers gizmos  that most high end users would have zero use for, for a few bucks to generate revenue, is beyond belief.
The idea of selling more for less is completely foreign to me. The idea of business is to sell less for more.
  
But what really takes the Cake is to allow a few obnoxious forum members using some self perceived authority and grandiose sense of importance, free reign to repeatedly insult some of the very same longtime users that may have hung in there all those years though all the iterations of bugs and half baked starts to willfully show a callous disregard for serious customers.
 
What all this really tells me is that, they may have lost their way and that they don't even care if the established power user base to goes away; and that they (Cakewalk) have staked their future on the nickel and dime crowd. Well my experience tells me that is a fickle bunch of tightwads and in many cases, have to get the money from Mom or Dad.
 
But they can count on this. I'll only go away with a fight. I will be damned if I am going to willingly throw away nearly 10 years of Sonar experience without letting them know how I  (and I'd bet thousands of others likewise) feel about it.
 
 

 

Hi there Mystic.
 
Notice my siggy? I own X1.  

Boy..sure are a lot of bitter people around again.

I've gone to X1c here..I'm still 'learning'  how to use it's features and getting  to know my keyboard better as well. I am adapting to it's ways.

I am not all that bright but even I know when enough bickering and fussing is enough. Just take a few deep breaths and do some learning here.

and note your dollars are already NOT included in said stated sales success. Given that X1 is a new product, you have exercised your personal right not to buy it,

Mystic38

 

 

Right. If you say so.

,

Thank you for your post. And I believe you. With that said however, it seems that you are (Cakewalk) in desperate need of some intense moderation of some members. He (member quoted), along with at least two others, ( I can name names, routinely tell other user members that if they have a problem, take their money and go elsewhere while obnoxiously slinging insults. Nearly any reader would take such posts as having the full weight and authority of Cakewalk behind such posts. And especially for me, since in all the years I have been here, I have never seen even one such derisive post called down by Cakewalk.

I'm not defending the posts you are referring to in the slightest but there's a little "Pot, Kettle, Black" going on here. I fully sympathise with anyone not getting on with/liking/disappointed with X1 but anyone who does like it and prefer it over previous versions (such as myself) is then called a fanbouy(sic). Remember this?

I've been using Sonar since V2 so I'm hardly a noob.

Undoubtedly the next move will be to tell me I'm a bedroom hobbyist/amateur that doesn't understand what the grown ups use the program for.

Is it so inconceivable that there may be some of us that actually find X1 an improvement?

I will resist the temptation to call those that don't dinosaurs names, that'll make me as bad as those that call others fanboys.

,

I really do not pay much mind to claims like that anyways. 

I'm not so sure that any survey will be really all that thorough anyhow.

mike_mccue


How would someone advise a person to learn there are less tracks visible in track view in X1 than in any previous version of SONAR?

Here's the views of someone actually using X1...................

In the track view, in X1 I can see 36 tracks on my main monitor with all tracks collapsed. In 8.5 I can see 35 tracks.

Eh? I can almost hear people thinking.............. In X1 I have the option to hide the Control bar with a button press. In 8.5 the option to hide the toolbar still leaves me with a small toolbar at the top, hence less tracks.

Even taking the toolbar out of the equation (which is an unfair comparison because the facility to hide & recall it exists so why wouldn't anyone for who the track-count-per-view is so important use it?) I can still see 33 so the difference here is 1 track. Now for all the big boys with 300+ tracks per project I really fail to see how 1 less on display makes that much of a difference. I was going to include Benstats Sonar plus in full screen view which takes the X1 count up to 38 but that would be unfair on 8.5.

But......... just in case the one track really does matter that much, in X1 I can duplicate that view to another screenset hide the first 36 tracks and now see the next 36 tracks in one go and switch between the two with a corresponding CV if I want with a single keypress which correct me if I'm wrong would take more in 8.5 as the page down wouldn't update the CV.

I find there are two types of people in life, one type that gets on and says how am I going to achieve X...... and the other type who says I can't achieve X because of a, b, & c.

I know where I belong and where I'm happiest. Anyway sorry to gate crash the party, I'll carry on making music now and shut this laptop lid down else I'll get distracted on here all day.

FastBikerBoy

Thank you for your post. And I believe you. With that said however, it seems that you are (Cakewalk) in desperate need of some intense moderation of some members. He (member quoted), along with at least two others, ( I can name names, routinely tell other user members that if they have a problem, take their money and go elsewhere while obnoxiously slinging insults. Nearly any reader would take such posts as having the full weight and authority of Cakewalk behind such posts. And especially for me, since in all the years I have been here, I have never seen even one such derisive post called down by Cakewalk.

I'm not defending the posts you are referring to in the slightest but there's a little "Pot, Kettle, Black" going on here. I fully sympathise with anyone not getting on with/liking/disappointed with X1 but anyone who does like it and prefer it over previous versions (such as myself) is then called a fanbouy(sic). Remember this?

I've been using Sonar since V2 so I'm hardly a noob.

Undoubtedly the next move will be to tell me I'm a bedroom hobbyist/amateur that doesn't understand what the grown ups use the program for.

Is it so inconceivable that there may be some of us that actually find X1 an improvement?

I will resist the temptation to call those that don't dinosaurs names, that'll make me as bad as those that call others fanboys.

Of course I remember that.  WHy on earth would you consider the term Fanbouy as derogatory ? It should be seen as a badge of honour. 
 
My point is . . .
 
if you use extensive sample libraries in conjuction with likewise numbers large audio tracks, and if you do heavy midi work, and if you have been using the product as long as you state, then you know without a doubt that Cakewalk can and must do much better than X1.  Fwiw, I have no doubt that everything you stated is true. I just don't go along with the thinking that less and more cumbersome is better. 
 
I will gladly accept the term that you crossed out, that I am a dinosaur, but the legacy of dinosaurs (oil) fuels our world today.

Oh well............. looks like I've got myself distracted now...............

mike_mccue


"In the track view, in X1 I can see 36 tracks on my main monitor with all tracks collapsed. In 8.5 I can see 35 tracks."

LOL,

May I present you the Mr. Clever award?

That is some very high quality *spin*... a sure sign of hidden talent!

Why thank you...........

Why not make the comparison with the meters visible? I suggest, but only if you want to understand of course, that you try that if you want to understand rather than obfuscate the claim that SONAR X1 has less of what I liked about every other version of SONAR.

Well we could go on all day moving goalposts to suit our agendas couldn't we? I can see the meters in X1, they are in the track headers but I'm guessing they wouldn't be big enough for you? If I need a bigger view I use the inspector or with the luxury of two monitors, (which surely all the users with 300 tracks per project have, don't they?) have the CV visible in the other with meters galore. If I apply 8.5 thinking to X1 then yes, it is extremely limiting, of course I, and I think you do too, have the ability to adapt to what I am working with. If I couldn't then I'd either carry on using 8.5 or look for alternatives.

The results of that comparison are old news and have been published as screen grabs here at the forum numerous times.

Of course, any one that want's to can go look for themselves and see, if indeed, there is room for improvement with X1's track layout.

Let's bring on the improvements... I got my wallet out.

I've never said there's no room for improvement did I?

My conclusion is that you can see a lot less info about tracks in track view in SONAR X1 than you can in any previous version of SONAR.


best,
mike





Oh and also you haven't mentioned whether you had to make the control bar completely disapear to promote the claim of near parity.

Yes? No? On both? Or just X1? Maybe you can post a screen shot so we can point out what's missing? :-)

I thought I made that clear, the control bar was collapsed in X1 after all it's a feature of the program that it can be called up and hidden instantly with a button press so why wouldn't I use it. To be fair I also used that option in 8.5 but even using that there is still one small tool bar visible at the top.

If you're saying to me "use X1 like you would 8.5 but don't use any of the new available features" then you are quite correct X1 sucks in comparison, as it is I'm going to use every advantage I can get to make it work for me in exactly the same way that I have every other previous version.

To clarify I did not use Benstats Sonar plus mod though as that is external to what is provided but again if the track count is the important thing (as opposed to complaining for the sake of it ) then surely a user would use that as well. That takes the track visible count up to 38 using the "Full screen mode".

I'm merely trying to point out that if track count per view is of such great concern to any user they should look at the full picture rather than a blinkered view.

SteveStrummerUK

Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]

Also, Roland has literally nothing to do with these forums. These are our forums, not Roland's. 

 
I hope they're paying you guys a good rate for the banner advertising then Seth
 
 

Any non-competing third-party companies are allowed to advert on our forums. 


SP

Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]

SteveStrummerUK

Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]

Also, Roland has literally nothing to do with these forums. These are our forums, not Roland's. 

I hope they're paying you guys a good rate for the banner advertising then Seth

Any non-competing third-party companies are allowed to advert on our forums. 


SP

 

 
 

Right now I'm clear but if that screenshot suits your way of working, it looks a bit of a mess to me but if that's clear to you fair enough...........

You obviously have a larger monitor than me but that's irrelevant it's all relative. In V8.5 on my monitor I can get 18 tracks displayed as you have it.




If I use X1 to its full capabilities on my system I can show 20 tracks with the same info.




If I use X1 with no mods I'm down to 18, the same as V8



and if I put the control bar in I'm down to 16. I'm quite sure you'll consider hiding the control bar or using any X1 features as 'cheating', so we'll go with the lowest count.




Quite why anyone who has a fixation with getting lots of tracks on screen would not want to use the programs capabilities to achieve that is beyond me, but you seem to have an agenda so I'll give you that one.

To conclude then, I have 18 tracks in the best mode that V8 can manage and 16 tracks in a crippled X1 view, meaning that I'd have to have around 130 - 140 tracks before I'd have to push a button in X1 once more than I would in V8.

As it is I use X1 to the best of it's capabilites and so see more tracks per view, but that's just me..............

I'm afraid I'm completely missing the point.

 
But I always record all the talented stuff on track 19
 

If we are going to go on how many tracks I can jam onto my screen here..it be about the same.


Then again...how many rows and columns can your screen hold using Excel?