Upgrading to X1? big mistake

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tommo_1
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2011/10/31 02:22:57 (permalink)

Upgrading to X1? big mistake

My opinions on X1.
 
Everything is so much harder. Why change everything? I was fine without the stupid multidock, track view WAS easy to work with when i could maximise and minimise easily, into piano roll, out of piano roll, into mixing view, out of mixing view. This new layout is rat****.
And the "smart" tool? ****ing ridiculous pointless waste of time. Draw tool, GONE! now it just plots notes everywhere.
 
I was coping with smart tool, but now i cant drag notes to the right only to the left? WHY?!!!. Final straw. What a waste of money.
Pretty much ruining my life.
 
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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/10/31 03:47:04 (permalink)
    Wow....... How about opening your mind a little to some new possibilities, I bet someone once upon-a-time started moaning about why they'd ever need a wheel when they can walk everywhere............

    Maximising views is far easier in X1. Put it in the multidock press shift+D (do that once only) then press D to open close it.

    PRV in the multidock as above. If you have multiple windows open in it switch between them by either clicking on the corresponding tab or press Ctrl+Shift+arrow key.

    The draw tool is part of the smart tool, Either double click or hold Alt + click. If that isn't good enough, select the "still in my version" draw tool by pressing F9 or middle mouse button and selecting it from the tool HUD.

    If I opened up X1 with 8.5 head on and click around for half an hour I'd come to the same conclusion. However I spent a little time working with it and it all made far more sense.

    IMHO of course...........

    Posts such as yours above are unlikely to get you much help, why not ask on here how to do something the 'new' way - you may be pleasantly surprised and like the new way or then again perhaps you've already made your fair and open mind up.

    Just my advice take it or leave it as you see fit...........
    #2
    RnRmaChine
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/10/31 04:06:29 (permalink)
    Hey tommo_1,

    I feel for ya dude, but X1 is quite good once ya get use to the new way of doing things. 8.5 feels odd now when I open it.

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    #3
    tommo_1
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/10/31 04:45:21 (permalink)
    Ouch...
    Double clicking works on the draw tool yes, and holding alt all the time works. But how is that any quicker or smarter? Its like taking the round wheel and replacing it with a log, still works! but a ****load harder to push.
    So when i plot a note by double clicking how do you drag it into postion mate? you cant! unless you want a blur of plotted notes. You have to hope you get it exactly right everytime...where as every other cakewalk program in the past you could drag it. A big backwards step in my opinion, and just plain dumb
    I would usually be one to praise sonar software.
     I have persisted with this p.o.s program and used the smart tool for months, now all of a sudden i can only drag notes one way! ****en killing me!
    I understand some of you are much more advanced than myself, happy to spend hours working this **** out but it took me ages to get used to music creator ie sonar and i loved it but now its just ****ed!

    PS: pressing f9 and selecting draw tool DOES NOT stop the draw tool plotting notes continously.
    #4
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/10/31 06:44:38 (permalink)
    So when i plot a note by double clicking how do you drag it into postion mate?

    Holding the last click and dragging works here, can't think of an easier way.
    #5
    John T
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/10/31 07:06:57 (permalink)
    I think it's a bit oddly self-defeating when, if something is "pretty much ruining [your] life", to hold to a position of "I don't have time to RTFM". Here's a fact for you. A rock solid home truth. Sonar may be good, Sonar may be bad. Whatever, that's nowhere near being your most pressing problem. What's more important is that you are not going to make it no way no how as a musician or audio engineer going at it with that "I ain't got the time" attitude. Seriously. This is the best advice you're going to get in this thread, possibly ever. I'm not joking.

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    The Maillard Reaction
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    , 2011/10/31 08:28:39 (permalink)
    ,
    post edited by Bash von Gitfiddle - 2018/11/30 20:19:08


    #7
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/10/31 08:56:34 (permalink)
    John T


    I think it's a bit oddly self-defeating when, if something is "pretty much ruining [your] life", to hold to a position of "I don't have time to RTFM". Here's a fact for you. A rock solid home truth. Sonar may be good, Sonar may be bad. Whatever, that's nowhere near being your most pressing problem. What's more important is that you are not going to make it no way no how as a musician or audio engineer going at it with that "I ain't got the time" attitude. Seriously. This is the best advice you're going to get in this thread, possibly ever. I'm not joking.


    I have to say, I totally gree with you John.

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    #8
    berlymahn
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/10/31 13:02:26 (permalink)
    Bird....

    Bird is the word.....

    Do dah dah, do, dah do do
    MA ma ma ma, ma ma , ma ma mama ma

    Loving my X1

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    #9
    wayofmind
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/10/31 14:39:50 (permalink)
     
    John T, I. Love. You. You just struck a very personal chord with me - friendships lost over personality conflicts of this very sort.

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    #10
    Mully
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/10/31 20:34:08 (permalink)
    John T is spot on! Well pointed out. As for multi dock being stupid..? ...wow. Cheers(?)

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    #11
    rmfluzon
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/10/31 21:49:13 (permalink)
    I don't really understand why you chose to upgrade if X1 only contains stupid pointless broken things that you don't want...I upgraded because it contained certain things that I did want, but I have been put off by certain bugs that have yet to be resolved.

    If I wasn't doing this I'd just be doing something else...

    Robert Fegley at ReverbNation
    #12
    offnote
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/10/31 22:03:07 (permalink)
    tommo_1


    My opinions on X1.
     
    Everything is so much harder. Why change everything? I was fine without the stupid multidock, track view WAS easy to work with when i could maximise and minimise easily, into piano roll, out of piano roll, into mixing view, out of mixing view. This new layout is rat****.
    And the "smart" tool? ****ing ridiculous pointless waste of time. Draw tool, GONE! now it just plots notes everywhere.
     
    I was coping with smart tool, but now i cant drag notes to the right only to the left? WHY?!!!. Final straw. What a waste of money.
    Pretty much ruining my life.
     

    don't understand, if you were fine with previous version why in hell did you upgrade? especially that you had the option to download trial version and evaluate it... 
    #13
    tommo_1
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/11/01 01:40:22 (permalink)
    Thankyou for your valuable opinions and spending the time to reply
     
    Biker boy: You seem to be misunderstanding what i am saying. I CAN ONLY DRAG ONE WAY! And yes, i can think of an easier way, one click, hold to drag (BOTH WAYS!).
     
    John:   "ruining my life" was intented to be sarcastic as you probably know already. This is my hobby, not my career, but thanks for the advice.
     
    Berlymahn: Your photo says it all
     
    Offnote and others: Your right, why the hell did i upgrade. Big mistake. as the thread title suggests.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    #14
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/11/01 03:02:18 (permalink)
    I CAN ONLY DRAG ONE WAY!

    Drag only one way has 360 different possibilities in the context of a direction. Do you mean limited to one direction forward, up, down backwards?

    Anyway that is partially irrelevant because whatever you are seeing isn't how it should work. You should double-click and instead of releasing the last click hold it down and drag note to wherever you want it. That's what you should be seeing and I'm guessing because I've never seen it mentioned here before that's what 99% of everyone else is seeing as well. Therefore it must be specific to your system/workflow method.

    More detail on the direction you are "stuck" in may help myself or others help you fix it.


    And yes, i can think of an easier way, one click, hold to drag (BOTH WAYS!).

    That's how it does work as mentioned above.
    #15
    SteveStrummerUK
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/11/01 06:42:36 (permalink)
    tommo_1


    And the "smart" tool? ****ing ridiculous pointless waste of time.

    I use X1 exclusively now (as opposed to dipping back into 8.5.3) and I've got used to it now. I actually prefer some of the new ways of doing things - not all by a long chalk, but maybe that's understandable with such a big change in layout and way of working.
     
    However, I have to agree with what you've said here Tom, try as I might I simply cannot get to like the Smart Tool. It just doesn't feel intuitive to me at all. I'd much prefer to have the various option buttons it displays available in a Module for the Control Bar.
     
     

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    LixiSoft
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/11/01 06:52:26 (permalink)
    you had the option to download trial version and evaluate it


    Yeah..............many months AFTER the release of DAW 2.0 (X1) !!  I got sucked into all the HYPE of X1 (my bad), it was so full of bugs I had to wait for X1c before it was of any use.  Lesson learned, I will never buy another CW release until I try out a DEMO version.  At least it was only $99 and I can use it as a tax deduction

    And please believe me............I love CW and have supported them since DOS v2, but X1 was a real fustercluck when first released.  It contains many work flow "enhancements" that are not well thought out, much wasted space, and is bloated with unpolished or unfinished "features".

    Just say'n, I love CW..........but X1 has been a real test of my love

    LixiSoft
    #17
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/11/01 07:40:59 (permalink)
    Tommo..

    I came from Music Creator, a very simple, and basic DAW with just enough stuff to get the job done. So imagine my surprise when I had to learn a new GUI. 

    So I set about doing it.... took a few weeks to get comfortable in it but there are some things I like better. And a few that I don't. 

    I chose to upgrade as did you. Take the time to learn. Especially about the screen sets.... very handy things. 

    As far as bugs, I have not encountered the problems others here speak of.... 

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    #18
    tommo_1
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/11/02 01:42:45 (permalink)
    Biker boy:
    Double clicking and holding the second click with the draw function in the smart tool will let me plot and drag it anywhere but the direction left (backwards) of where i plot it. This is the problem. I cant find any way in the help guide to remedy this, if you can steer me in the right direction it would be much appreciated.

    When using the control bar draw tool (f9 or as you say "still in my version") and clicking ( or double clicking) and holding to drag the note to position it just plots notes everywhere you drag it too, that is absolutely ridiculous. Why have the option of clicking on the draw tool in the control bar if it doesnt even work?
     
    I Just dont know what cw were thinking when they decided that this would be a better way to do things. Did they have to prove that X1 was actually that different from previous versions by adding things that we really dont need, resulting in much less user friendly DAW, because thats what it seems like.
     Must have be on some gnarly drugs cuz the way piano roll used to work was excellent. 
    #19
    Earlybird
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/11/02 02:45:02 (permalink)
    You pays you money and takes your choice. X1c is now become a pro interface and works like one, who needs Pro Tools ! My work has taken a big step foward on speed. Also check out Eli Kranzburg tutorials on Sonar X1 at www.groove3.com .Great teacher.
    #20
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/11/02 04:03:54 (permalink)
    tommo_1


    Biker boy:
    Double clicking and holding the second click with the draw function in the smart tool will let me plot and drag it anywhere but the direction left (backwards) of where i plot it. This is the problem. I cant find any way in the help guide to remedy this, if you can steer me in the right direction it would be much appreciated.


    I don't know that I'll be able to help much. I do know that you should be able to, so what you are seeing is not normal. I can't really think why you can't either. It must be butting up against something. Can you draw a note where you are trying to drag it? The only time I can't go backwards (in time) is if I'm up against measure 1. Have you tried CW support? It may be an issue they are aware of.


    When using the control bar draw tool (f9 or as you say "still in my version") and clicking ( or double clicking) and holding to drag the note to position it just plots notes everywhere you drag it too, that is absolutely ridiculous. Why have the option of clicking on the draw tool in the control bar if it doesnt even work?
     
    The draw tool has seven different modes. Make sure freehand is selected as opposed to line, because that will make a difference. Having said that what you are seeing is how it's supposed to work, it's drawing. You shouldn't AFAIK be able to move the note in draw mode unless you hold down the ALT key, then you can draw, hold & drag notes. When you try that can you move notes backwards (in time)? That may give a clue as toi why the smart tool won't let you.

    I Just dont know what cw were thinking when they decided that this would be a better way to do things. Did they have to prove that X1 was actually that different from previous versions by adding things that we really dont need, resulting in much less user friendly DAW, because thats what it seems like.
     Must have be on some gnarly drugs cuz the way piano roll used to work was excellent. 

    I guess that's all matter of opinon which has been flogged to death on here. There'll be plenty agree with you, and plenty disagree too. IMHO I think more customisation will be a good thing but generally I like it.

    #21
    tommo_1
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/11/02 04:45:48 (permalink)
    you say

    The draw tool has seven different modes. Make sure freehand is selected as opposed to line, because that will make a difference. Having said that what you are seeing is how it's supposed to work, it's drawing. You shouldn't AFAIK be able to move the note in draw mode unless you hold down the ALT key, then you can draw, hold & drag notes. When you try that can you move notes backwards (in time)? That may give a clue as toi why the smart tool won't let you.

    Dont know what afaik means.
    In draw mode (that is having the draw symbol checked in the control bar, on freehand) your saying that holding the alt key lets you draw, hold and drag  notes?

    Are we using the same X1? It doesnt sound like it.

    When in this mode (that is having the draw symbol checked in the control bar, on freehand) it will plot notes but not let you drag that single note, if you try to drag it will plot continuous notes as far as you drag it, however it will let you drag backwards but plotting continuous notes along the way. If you hold ALT in this mode it does nothing.

    In smart tool mode (that is having the smart tool icon checked in the control bar) it works as it should, hold alt and it will plot and let you drag that single note everywhere BUT backwards (left) from where you plot that note, that cant be right, but... 
    I havent changed anything at all in the settings,  brand new out of the box and all ive done is try to work out how to use the ****in thing.
    Thanks for trying mate but i think sonar x1 is a piece of  ****
     
    post edited by tommo_1 - 2011/11/02 04:53:38
    #22
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/11/02 06:44:35 (permalink)
    tommo_1


    you say

    The draw tool has seven different modes. Make sure freehand is selected as opposed to line, because that will make a difference. Having said that what you are seeing is how it's supposed to work, it's drawing. You shouldn't AFAIK be able to move the note in draw mode unless you hold down the ALT key, then you can draw, hold & drag notes. When you try that can you move notes backwards (in time)? That may give a clue as toi why the smart tool won't let you.

    Dont know what afaik means.

    AFAIK = As far as I know
    In draw mode (that is having the draw symbol checked in the control bar, on freehand) your saying that holding the alt key lets you draw, hold and drag  notes?

    Yes that's exactly what happens here. See short video

    Are we using the same X1? It doesnt sound like it.

    Given the problems that some users see compared to my own experience I've long suspected That I have a "special edition".
    #23
    Eyes
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/11/02 07:13:42 (permalink)
    Hey mate, I do partially agree with you regarding X1, 8.5 was such a lovely tool but so many midi functions have been removed it can be fustrating. Regardless Cakewalk ignore these forums, best option is to put in a feature request for ability to edit tools etc. http://www.cakewalk.com/s...ct/featurerequest.aspx
    #24
    tommo_1
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/11/03 02:21:54 (permalink)
    thanks eyes, dont think it will make much difference though, i wont be buying or upgrading anything from cw again,

    bikerboy: That video is  not how my sonar x1 works, all i can guess is that cakewalk have no consistency with the product they are selling/shipping to users. 

    Id like to say that its pilot error, i'd like to to find out that i had the "dont let me drag notes backwards' option on
    I'd like to know how many other users have experienced this glitch,  and will start a new thread to find out, but at the end of the day this is the last on a long list of things that are counter intuitive in X1.

    And i want my money back.
    #25
    tommo_1
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/11/03 02:23:44 (permalink)
    Thanks alot for putting in the time to reply but mate 
    #26
    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/11/03 04:55:30 (permalink)
    tommo_1


    bikerboy: That video is  not how my sonar x1 works, all i can guess is that cakewalk have no consistency with the product they are selling/shipping to users.  


    And i want my money back.
    It's more than unlikely, that there are differences between the versions shipped to customers. There must
    be something else. In the first post you say you can't drag to right, but later the opposite. I suppose the first
    one is a typo, and the situation is you can't drag to the left (??).
     
    This is a far shot, and might be just stupid, but...
    One thing that could prevent dragging to left is if something is linked to earlier events  thus "blocking" the way (you can't move anything to minus-time). It's obvious with clips, but I don't really know if something similar can take place with individual notes.
     
    Generally speaking, about how annoyed you are with X1(bugs aside): The workflow and details of the software are obviously not what you've been used to. You can't change X1, so your only option is to learn to use it, and forget how you'd like/expect things to be done, or use another DAW. So many have gotten over the rebellion against the changes, that perhaps X1 is better than you think, after all.

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    #27
    The Maillard Reaction
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    , 2011/11/03 07:19:53 (permalink)
    ,
    post edited by Bash von Gitfiddle - 2018/11/30 20:19:41


    #28
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/11/03 07:35:41 (permalink)
    disagree, I think the slow acceptance simply documents the human capacity for adaptation. Adaptation has not, historically, always improved the human experience... it is simply adaptation.

    While of course that may be true for some, I for one, genuinely find X1 on the whole much better than previous incarnations.

    My workflow speed has 'expanded' (<---- ) expotentially.
    #29
    John T
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    Re:Upgrading to X1? big mistake 2011/11/03 07:44:01 (permalink)
    This forum is pretty much the last place you'd find evidence of the human capacity for adaptation.

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