Helpful ReplyLockedVery Bad Feeling about Cakewalk.

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brconflict
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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 15:41:14 (permalink)
dubdisciple
 
As far as the patch or lack of patch.  I seriously would rather they put their resources in the next version if it's already in the pipeline than spend too much time trying gto pacify every little complaint in a perpetually uphill battle.  We all know that at some point Cakewalk will provide the newer version dirt cheap anyway.



Prior to this remark, I think your response was sound, for sure. To preface, I don't mean this as a rebuke, but rather, just my "take". No pun intended, X2 brought us Take Lanes and took away Layers, which I personally liked. X2 provided fixes and such for X1a-d, which I wanted but introduced a new horror to some. I don't want the same thing to happen again. So, even if X3 is amazing, and fixes lots of things from X1a, it certainly will introduce new things I won't find so welcome, or that need adjustment.

Brian
 
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dubdisciple
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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 15:42:23 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Grem 2013/07/01 16:46:50
and the entire back and forth with Andrew is exactly why I have no problem with Cakewalk staff avoiding these kinds of threads.  Nothing he says short of  "yessa boss, we's a workin on dat night and daaaaaay and will have it purrrrfected   and X2b with coupon for a bj by noon"  will avoid the endless stream of things he obviously cannot give us any more info on.
 
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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 15:43:52 (permalink)
There were also more than 250 bugs fixed with X2a.
 
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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 15:46:27 (permalink)
@brconflict..i realize not everybody feels the same as I do about the patch, so i don't take it personal.  Believe me, it annoys me that Take lanes kind of suck in actual practice.  Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I kind of expect new features to go through growing pains.  I just realize there is a certain point where the decision has to be made whether to in vest in endless tweaks of the old house or build it right from the ground up with the new house.  The answer is rarely black and white.
 
I guess for me, regardless of the path they take, I would prefer they spend it working instead of doing this.
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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 15:47:37 (permalink)
Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]

Thanks for being so positive. There is no wink wink or nudge here. We don't have a comment on the future of SONAR other than we believe it to be very bright and we are listening to all our customers. Please don't take our communication here to mean anything else or read between the lines. That wasn't the intention at all.




Well I do certainly hope X2 will get the attention it deserves before any new release because it is a great program. I'm sure you guys have already perused it but if not the more constructive thread I was referring to from earlier this week is linked below.
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Yet-another-thread-about-the-current-lack-of-an-X2b-m2850642.aspx
 
I blathered on for probably too long in there but the general tone of the thread was positive and hopeful but somewhat anxious and a little frustrated. It's probably a better example of how your more committed customers are feeling than this thread which is turning into a turd flingers convention.
 
I truly do feel for you guys because of the abuse you take on the forum when you show up. It would tick me right the heck off. It also unfortunately drowns out the legit concerns and suggestions which is a drag for those who don't aspire for gold in the turd Olympics.
 
Cheers and thanks for popping in.
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brconflict
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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 15:52:49 (permalink)
And it is encouraging that Cakewalk is telling us that they are aware of our grumblings and such and that these things are being taken into account. I dunno, I guess I was fairly disappointed with how X2 came in. I was expecting an X1e. It's something that is difficult to navigate and not burn too much money, and it's reassuring to see that at least we're going to all get something out of what is brought out next.
 
Still, it's frustrating.

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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 16:00:56 (permalink)
br..I really do empathize.  I have a laundry list of things that annoy me about Sonar, but i honestly can say that about most of the software that i use. I think i may be a little more patient because I have had far worse experiences with other companies.  I have had Avid practically go tell me to eff myself unless I was using one of the exact computer models they listed on their site.  Steinberg outright ignored me when I told them their dongle was crashing my system to high hell.  For me, Cakewalk has been roses and sunshine in comparison.  Does not excuse the bumps in the road but puts them in perspective. 
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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 16:09:55 (permalink)
dubdisciple
and the entire back and forth with Andrew is exactly why I have no problem with Cakewalk staff avoiding these kinds of threads.  Nothing he says short of  "yessa boss, we's a workin on dat night and daaaaaay and will have it purrrrfected   and X2b with coupon for a bj by noon"  will avoid the endless stream of things he obviously cannot give us any more info on.
 


 
totally agree here with dub
robert_e_bone
There were also more than 250 bugs fixed with X2a.
 
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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 16:17:20 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Grem 2013/07/01 16:50:15
all im saying is every time one of these "why I hate x2a" threads comes out its a pile on every single time.
 
some of those users have some very valid points and actually help the cause by making suggestions.
I know of 5 people here that aren't happy but still make use, and stay positive.
(I know its tough)
they still do.
 
 
 

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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 16:20:11 (permalink)
chuckebaby
all im saying is every time one of these "why I hate x2a" threads comes out its a pile on every single time.
 
some of those users have some very valid points and actually help the cause by making suggestions.
I know of 5 people here that aren't happy but still make use, and stay positive.
(I know its tough)
they still do.
 
 
 




Attacking the Bakers and other users creates a situation where they may not want to post as much if at all. Then we all lose.
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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 16:35:49 (permalink)
Guitarmech111
I would like to use what I paid for as a loyal Cakewalk supporter and user, but I don't know how long that will last.




Probably as long as your current mobo, discs, memory and vid card are stable?
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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 16:41:19 (permalink)
mike_mccue
I think they are waiting on Karl to finish the video.
 
I'm hoping that X3 has touch anything custom color choices, that actually work, and that each take lane will have layers, that actually work.
 
It is going to be awesome.
 
 
 
best regards,
mike




Nice to hear you so positive Mike... I sure am looking forward to being "rewarded" for this long quiet treatment and wait for fixes...
 
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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 16:51:36 (permalink)
Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
It's not realistic to expect us to communicate about product plans, road maps, or business plans. I understand the frustration but don't take the silence as a sign of something bad. FWIW, this kind of speculation has been happening for over a decade. It's nothing new. We are all hard at work and when we have something we can discuss, we'll definitely communicate that to our customers via our website, emails, and forums. 
 
I do want to stress that anyone having serious issues should always contact Cakewalk support directly. We are happy to help out and often times a quick call can resolve an issue. 
 
 


Thanks for dropping by and posting a note Andrew...
 
Even this is better than not hearing at all... Yes, we've all complained about this many times before... But let's face it, this is often our only way to work at getting "your'" attention and hopefully get some kind of news... Sorry if it's pesky, but if we're having issues with design "flaws" as opposed to hard core bugs, there's noting that a service call could do...
 
I appreciate your hard work for many years as well as the other members of the Cakewalk team, but as the size/numbers increase there is less personal contact with the company and  that is understandable...
 
So I, myself apologize for the nag, but I think you can understand the frustration on the users' side as well... We don't expect you to give away secrets or announce timeline that will be mocked if not met... Simply to do as you just did... Remind us that we're being heard and that the future looms large! ;-)
 
Thanks again for the words... I feel better even tho I know no more!
 
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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 16:56:43 (permalink)
While it's certainly refreshing to see bakers participate in this thread, I think it's safe to say the vast majority of users would interpret the "can't comment on whether or not X2b is coming" as "X2b isn't coming and you can expect to have to upgrade to X3 to get any updates to your product", and I don't see how that's any better than maintaining unneeded suspense on the matter more than 6 months after the last patch, regardless of whether X2b would come out next week or next year.
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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 17:01:54 (permalink)
dubdisciple
and the entire back and forth with Andrew is exactly why I have no problem with Cakewalk staff avoiding these kinds of threads.  Nothing he says short of  "yessa boss, we's a workin on dat night and daaaaaay and will have it purrrrfected   and X2b with coupon for a bj by noon"  will avoid the endless stream of things he obviously cannot give us any more info on.
 




Exactly! And they proved it over and over again no matter what CW reps said!
 
Very well said dub! Couldn't have put it better myself.
 
On a side note:
Why would someone want to kick a dead horse straight in the balls? And then be proud of that fact?
 
I wonder about humanity sometimes.

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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 17:02:45 (permalink)
Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
mike_mccue
 
"FWIW, this kind of speculation has been happening for over a decade."
 
Yes, very much so. Each year we have waited only to learn that we are going to have to pay for the bug fixes.
 
Indeed, there was a claim by Cakewalk's CTO that X1 featured fixes for 10 year old bugs in it.
 
I don't need to speculate, I paid for 10 upgrades and I got some bugs fixed by being patient.
 
When does X3 come out?


There's more to every release than just some bug fixes. Narrowing it down to just that is pretty misleading and unfair. All new versions of products have fixes for old things... that's not exactly unique to SONAR. There was a lot of other work and tons of new features that went into the last 10 versions. Surely you can't ignore that?


 
Wow! Ryan too!
 
Thanks for chiming in Ryan... I guess something must have just "broke" allowing the two of you some time to talk with us...
 
I have always been pleased with Cakewalk's relationship with the users and all the many extras "you" have always supplied with giving us more than we ask for most of the time... Very pleasing even when much of it is not useful to me. Sonar has come a long way and I look forward to my future with you guys with great relish.
 
I know I'm frequently harsh in some of my attitudes. But over the years I've found that many of these things I stand up about get resolved eventually, so my staying on it seems to be working! ;-)
 
So, now onto the future!
 
Again, thanks for joining in the chat here...
 
Keni
 

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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 17:07:29 (permalink)
Nicely said Ryan...

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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 17:12:08 (permalink)
Andrew and Noel both have made it quite clear, in this thread, and in previous threads...

That Cake will do what they want, when they want, whenever they want...
and that they will tell you "only what they want to tell you"!!!
 
If you don't like it....abandon ship....that's the only choice there is...

I'm not being negative, just realistic..they have openly stated that...

So why go on and on about it?  Use it...or lose it....simple...

I, personally, continue to use it, in the hopes that things change...and because I've already invested in it...
but I haven't limited myself to JUST X2...the other things I need to do, that X2 doesn't provide, I do elsewhere...

You'll never get "all your eggs in one basket" so you might as well face it...

The only advantage to the other programs is that their companies communicate to the users, in both company AND non-company forums...
and they get fixes out ASAP....

So, if the silence bothers you, then find another "ship" to sail...that's all I'm sayin'....

I've got 5 ships in the water...and they ALL get me where I'm going...just some do it faster and 
better then the others...but sometimes you have to call one of the others up if the "engines" go out...
and you have to get the passengers off the boat...

Happy Sailing boyz....


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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 17:13:44 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby dubdisciple 2013/07/01 17:57:23
Let's see, there are maybe half a dozen people posting here that claim to be so unhappy with the lack of news on an X2b update they're ready to jump ship.  Some of those people don't even own X2 yet.  Some who do, haven't even't contacted support with their issues, at least some of which are probably fixable.  Yet even after an answer has been given (we're aware of your concerns, thank you for the input) they're still here, complaining about the same thing, asking the same questions, and making the same threats.  How droll.  
 
Meanwhile, there are thousands of satisfied Cakewalk customers who are making the software work for them.  Do I want to see an X2b?  Yes, of course I do.  But the responses from Andrew and Ryan have more than satisfied me that our concerns have been heard, loud and clear.  So at this point, it's really up to Cakewalk.  All this kvetching is rather silly, honestly.   
 
Cakewalk has left me hanging on bug fixes before.  There was a quirky little MIDI bug in 4.0 hardly anyone knew about, but that affected my particular setup.  A fix never made it into any patches.  When I finally upgraded to 8, and then X1, I found the bug was gone.  It probably never really got "fixed"...it just didn't survive the major changes to the code.  And that may be what some of the X2a bugs require.  Sorry--that's just the way it goes.  
 
The folks at Cakewalk are incredible programmers and engineers, but they're not magicians.  X2a is already a great product, even considering a few minor glitches.  So the execs at Cake have to decide if devoting their resources to fixing minor issues in the current release is more profitable than working on the next version.  What do you think the answer to that is going to be?  I honestly don't know, but my feelings are leaning towards putting the fixes in the next major release.  That may not be what people want to hear.  But think of it this way.  If X3 has some really appealing new features, how many of us wouldn't jump on that, especially knowing any niggles in X2a have been fixed?  Given that, I'm not sure it makes sense for them to release an X2b.  I hope they do, but if they don't...well, okay.  It's not going to make me stop using and loving Sonar.  
 
I freely admit I'm a big fan of Cakewalk.  But there's a reason for that.  It's not just blind loyalty.  They offer a product that suits my needs and style to a T.  There may be a few gotchas in X2a, but that's nothing new to any software.  If and when I bump into any specific issues that stop my workflow or prevent me from doing what I want to do, I'll certainly bring them up both here in the forums, and with tech support.  What I won't do is start ridiculous threads about how "bad" I feel about Cakewalk, threatening to jump ship if I don't get my way.  
 
Just my two cents.

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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 17:37:50 (permalink)
HeatherHaze
 
If X3 has some really appealing new features, how many of us wouldn't jump on that, especially knowing any niggles in X2a have been fixed?  Given that, I'm not sure it makes sense for them to release an X2b.




Marketing guys eat this up. Sure, it makes sense to bypass X2b. If the features in X3 aren't enough to get people to upgrade, the fixes might do the trick. This is an age-old trick that happens to work.

Brian
 
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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 17:48:11 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Grem 2013/07/01 18:09:10
I heart these threads. I've been a fan of them since this was a newsgroup before Cakewalk even had audio. The sincere but totally unfocused and naive rants get my pulse up. The technical retorts make my pride soar. The ensuing angst makes me reconsider my own position and take a real look around the industry. And then I realize these threads are on EVERY DAW forum out there. Some worse than others. 

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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 17:56:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Grem 2013/07/01 18:11:43
It is an age old marketing tactic and probably a necessary one in a world overrun by complexity.  Let's not pretend Cakewalk or any large company exists strictly our of benevolence. Even the most "caring" company has an ulterior motive for that care, even if some of it genuine. No software will ever be perfect for every user 100% of the time.  They could patch to infinity and there would always be something.  It seems like I get  100mb adobe acrobat reader patch every other day.   It simply comes down to pragmatism for any software company. 
 
I don't know about rest of you, but I honestly don't know if this forum represents  the majority or even a significant portion of the Cakewalk user base.  It may simply just attract the most vocal or even just the people with the most free time to post.  Cakewalk/ Roland cannot survive by hitting the panic button every time a negative thread pops up. It's difficult to balance being responsive to the needs of the many and yourself and trying to literally stick a pacifier in the mouth of every baby in the nursery, knowing that some will continue to cry anyway. 
 
Again, Cakewalk staff would not even bother with this exchange if they were as "take it or leave it" as some of you claim.  That's like me voluntarily picking a fight with my gf that I already know I can't win.  They could easily just skip this topic and and save everyone multiple pages of BS.  I'm not trying to insult people who are simply frustrated.  There are many of you who seem like decent people who are just annoyed.  Then again there are people who are downright troll like and simply find a way to find the absolute most negative thing to pitch in.  These are the types that would stand in the crowd during a lynching and volunteer rope without regard for  whether it was justice.  They just liked the chaos.  Having worked customer service in the past, there is nothing more deflating than trying to be helpful to someone who seems determined to be belligerent.
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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 17:56:59 (permalink)
I've always had good response from support....maybe not in the forum, but support nonetheless.
 
Anyone who wants to ditch Sonar because of no response from the bakers should go onto the other DAW forums....it's the same everywhere (yes, even the Steinberg forum). Actually, the worst is the Avid forum. Want to talk about zero customer support? Yet Avid manages to squeeze $700 from users for a terrible DAW (Pro Tools). I have moved onto Mac just because I need better video features, but Sonar X2 is always my go-to tool for everything else. And believe me, the other big DAW's have their share of bugs!  
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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 18:14:14 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby dubdisciple 2013/07/01 18:20:19
brconflict
Marketing guys eat this up. Sure, it makes sense to bypass X2b. If the features in X3 aren't enough to get people to upgrade, the fixes might do the trick. This is an age-old trick that happens to work.

Yes, but it's not a foregone conclusion.  We did, after all, get an X2a.  And X1 got as far as X1d.  That's not nothing.  Sometimes it makes better business sense to invest your resources in your current release, while other times it's better to focus on the next major release.  Since we aren't privy to what's happening behind the scenes, it's anybody's guess which way it'll go this particular time.  Historically, however, Cakewalk has a good record of supporting their product with updates and bug fixes.  And although X2 has been out a while now, it hasn't been all that long, and has already been patched once.  If an X2b is coming or not depends on how much development is going into X3.  

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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 18:14:41 (permalink)
Heather, wicked, and dub have said it perfectly. Better than I could.
 
 

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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 18:21:28 (permalink)
All DAW have bugs...
But other DAW have more interesting idea today. Today Sonar X2a is old-school, not the modern DAW. We need fantastic update if we want to have a modern DAW.

CW, please make Sonar X* better and stop making other unnecessary pieces.
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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 18:24:32 (permalink)
OK, I'll bite.
 
>> Today Sonar X2a is old-school, not the modern DAW. We need fantastic update if we want to have a modern DAW.
 
Just what, exactly, would you consider to be a feature of a modern DAW that SONAR doesn't have?
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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 18:46:51 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Guitarmech111 2013/07/01 18:54:21
Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]SONAR is not going anywhere.

 
I'm not sure you really wanted to put it that way..........
 
But seriously in the time it takes to walk across the hall and get a cup of coffee a CW spokesperson could easily post a simple "we're working on a bug fix version of X2a"....unless the truth is "we're working on a paid X3 upgrade".....then I'm pretty sure after reading all the threads here you probably wouldn't want to announce that.........
 
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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 18:53:43 (permalink)
I don't think of the Roland folks climbing in on here and offering basically nothing but damage control is awesome or excellent customer service. It is marketing damage control.

I think a patch would show much more awesomeness and excellence! With X2a being out for so long and many reported issues yet to be fixed that we would get a bone.
 
I understand the lifecycle of software. I also understand that releases aren't ready until they are ready and there may be contractual agreements to prevent the release date of a product. With the software companies code to market strategies, there has to be some sort of tentative release date for a patch if one is being worked on. They must be having some major issues or we would have been notified by now of a potential time frame. With September coming along and possibly X3 very soon, We should know something is around the corner.
 
I would be happy just to hear oficially that there will be a patch. With the Roland folks hush hush on that, that concerns me. I am sure that if it meant enough $$ that someone who was in charge of the release management would say something.
 
I am just more concerned that there will be no X2b. All I want to know is if there will be one or not. I don't even need a date. I do not think that is asking too much. That would shut me up to know that oficially.

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Re: Very Bad Feeling about Cakewalk. 2013/07/01 18:56:16 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jbow 2013/07/02 21:08:48
Not a modern DAW ....wow. So what do you consider a modern DAW? Sonar has been on the for front of many modern features.

I am sure that Cakewalk has a separate group of developers working on bugs and a separate group working on new features and X3. Historically, they will eventually roll them into one and call it X3, a paid up date. I am excited to see what X3 has to bring, hopefully some bug fixes and some more cool features. If it is not a big up date and I feel that it is not worth the purchase, I will simply skip a round. Nothing in X2 is a show stopper for me.

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