fitzj
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 18:48:02
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HumbleNoise
fitzj
Noel are you saying that adding vst on the fly is down to the vst and not the sonar audio engine. I have tested the same plugin on the fly with studio 1 and no issue.
No, that's not what he's saying. How do I know? I read his post. He said it's not that simple and probably some combination of both and needs to be taken as a separate technical issue in order to be resolved.
I never asked you anyting I asked Noel and you jumped in. You also mention "abusive attitudes" perhaps you should look at your self before you start shouting down some one throat. Its members like you that makes people not wanting to post here any more. abusive attitudes.
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HumbleNoise
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 18:51:14
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Sorry fitzj,
Did not intend to shout down your throat or be abusive. If it came across that way it's probably my frustration coming through and that doesn't belong in this thread or on this forum.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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fitzj
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 18:54:15
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HumbleNoise
Sorry fitzj,
Did not intend to shout down your throat or be abusive. If it came across that way it's probably my frustration coming through and that doesn't belong in this thread or on this forum.
OK I accept that.
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UnderTow
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 19:03:02
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]
Its blowing my mind that I have to come out on a public forum and justify every line I write here because people read it like a Rorschach test.
Sorry to give you a hard time but my concerns are genuine. Please keep it professional and have some faith in what we do as a company.
Gapless playback was promised 7 years ago... I really think it is up to Cakewalk to earn that faith at this point in time. Thanks again for the constructive replies listing concrete use cases and problems that affect you. Thats all that we need. Thanks.
I asked you before in an other thread but you didn't respond. Did you ever see my suggestions list for X1? ( http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2193406 ). Is there any point in continuing with that list? It would be nice to know that such efforts are not in vain. And an acknowledgement that such efforts are being received by the key people developing Sonar would be nice and dare I say professional and it might help to instil some faith and goodwill. UnderTow
post edited by UnderTow - 2011/01/27 19:04:35
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 19:11:39
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Noel are you saying that adding vst on the fly is down to the vst and not the sonar audio engine. I have tested the same plugin on the fly with studio 1 and no issue Please quote the specific VST and we will investigate it. Also check if you can create a minimal test project (say with a couple of audio tracks and no other plugins) and then insert the VST into that while its playing. Does it still drop out for you?
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Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 19:12:16
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Jeff Evans
Brundlefly you are correct, that video really does not show anything at all and yes Sonar could easily do this. What it does not show is try dragging a big instrument right out from the browser onto the session. Sonar will stop in its tracks then. S1 will not, it will open up and you can even search presests etc, have a little rehearsal etc and go in and out of record all while it never stops. That is the sort stuff I am talking about.
I agree with fitzj some VST's have been mentioned that cause problems but the same VST's in S1, even the Sonar instruments like Dimension and Rapture. z3ta+ and even Perfect Space has been mentioned here is problematic, do not cause any issues in s1 either.
What do you mean when you say SONAR will stop dead in its tracks? I certainly don't' see this. Here's what i just did with a little something I'm working on. 2.2ms ASIO drivers X1a x64 maybe 14 tracks or so in the project with 3 existing virtual instrument and maybe a dozen or so effects 1) Hit play with entire piece looping 2) Add audio track (very tiny silence - no stopping - in audio playback) 3) Change input to different input (almost imperceptible silence) 4) Drag in GR4 Pro to insert (no perceptible glitch or silence whatsoever) 5) Change presets in GR4 and play (no stop or glitch or silence gap) 6) Drag in Kontakt 4 (small silence/stutter while it inserts - maybe 1 sec in length) 7) Load a number of presets and play from keyboard (no perceptible silence, gap or dropout) 8) Drag in FM8 (same as above) 9) Drag in Pentagon (same as above) 10) Armed record on track with GR4 on it (no perceptible glitch, gap , or drop whatsoever) 11) Engaged record and recorded guitar part through GR4 (no perceptible glitch, gap , or drop whatsoever) 12) Disengaged record and turned off record arm on audio track (no perceptible glitch, gap , or drop whatsoever) 13) Finally I stopped playback So what's my point? SONAR should not gap when you change loop points. Right. And there are a few other areas where seamless playback of audio would be nice and it looks like we're identifying those. But this idea that SONAR inherently can't handle any functions or it stops dead in its tracks just doesn't seem true to me. It's so easy for these conversations to get totally hyperbolic as people add their own anecdotal experience (at least some of it surely anomalous), and sometimes interjections of general discontent to the discussion that the underlying issue gets blown out of proportion - IMHO. Yes things can be better and we have an interest in making them so. We want SONAR to be the best in as many areas as it can be. But reading this thread alone, one would think SONAR is completely unusable as a real-time music creation system and I think my results above and the experience I just had with my own two eyes and ears say otherwise. I know what my experience had been but I wanted to sit down and really analyze what I was seeing to understand - consciously - what the situation is. Can it be better? Yes, of course. But let's not blow it out of proportion as it can function rather seamlessly for most things.
post edited by Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk] - 2011/01/27 19:23:16
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG SONAR Platinum | VS-700 | A-800 PRO | PCAL i7 with SSD running Windows 8 x64 | Samsung 27" LCD @ 1920x1080 | Blue Sky monitors with BMC | All kinds of other stuff
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 19:17:19
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FWIW, The last time I fooled with Prochannel my system went into digital runaway distortion... the first time I have ever experienced this in SONAR.
As a matter of fact, I don't think I have experienced this in my studio in years.
I suddenly appreciated the soft dropout feature in SONAR that I have come to take for granted in the past several versions.
Something is up... I hope X1B fixes it.
I really appreciate that everyone at Cakewalk seems to be working hard on all this stuff.
All the best,
mike
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 19:18:26
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I asked you before in an other thread but you didn't respond. Did you ever see my suggestions list for X1? Yes I did and even commented within the context of the effects chain thread to some of your queries from that post. Perhaps you missed that. In any case thanks for posting your suggestions they were forwarded to product management.
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UnderTow
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 19:24:55
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]
I asked you before in an other thread but you didn't respond. Did you ever see my suggestions list for X1?
Yes I did and even commented within the context of the effects chain thread to some of your queries from that post. Perhaps you missed that. In any case thanks for posting your suggestions they were forwarded to product management.
That is good to hear. Thanks for the response. UnderTow
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ba_midi
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 19:31:54
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Is there anything anyone wants to add regarding the when and how SONAR gaps or drops for you and is there anything anyone wants to add regarding what operations they feel should be seamless? One thing I'd like to mention regarding looping (ie, setting loop points), is that there seems to be more drifiting out of sync when looping with some plugins (like Maschine, etc). I know some plugins have their own set of bugs, but interestingly I've been experimenting with Studio One on some of these issues and I haven't had it go out of sync doing the same things I would in Sonar. So I'm wondering if this area needs looking into as well.
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...wicked
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 19:33:43
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]
Its blowing my mind that I have to come out on a public forum and justify every line I write here because people read it like a Rorschach test. Its almost impossible for us post here without it degenerating into this nonsense. Please keep it professional and have some faith in what we do as a company.
Noel I agree with you. It's certainly free and easy to toss around comments and language along near-hateful lines...or at least with great bravado...on a forum like this. Just to give the other side its due, it's also pretty nice to be able to make a good-intentioned suggestion and have the dev response be open-eared...and frustrating when it's not. I'm no coder, but I can certainly see the point in name-checking Live's engine. Whatever may be going on under the hood it is notoriously stable for playback...certainly moreso than linear DAWs. I don't think it's a crazy thing to envy and for people to nod at when talking about playback stability. But usually what Cake folk bring back is a non-acknowledgment of the asset. Look, I know X1 has had a very dynamic reaction curve since it came out, so I can understand some sensitivity. In fact, I think Cake has shows a tremendous amount of decorum and professionalism over this release. But at the same time I think it's a little evasive to talk around something so obvious as Live's engine...or, say, returning customizations to the UI in X1...things like the lasso bug... etc. You can't please all the people all the time, and certainly not this lot (of which I admit my own culpability), but it's okay to be honest about the strengths, areas of improvement, and issues of software. You're not running for President after all. 
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
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ba_midi
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 19:36:08
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Its blowing my mind that I have to come out on a public forum and justify every line I write here because people read it like a Rorschach test. Its almost impossible for us post here without it degenerating into this nonsense. Please keep it professional and have some faith in what we do as a company. I hope the distractions of the personal interactions of some users don't stop you from continuing to investigate this area and our needs regarding it. I, too, wish these threads would not degenerate so often, but there really are important things being discussed here and I'm glad you've gotten involved and are showing your interest in these things!
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thomasabarnes
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 19:40:18
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Brandon, thanks for your posts. I can do most of the things you mention seemlessly (and what may be of note is I can seemlessly add VSt effects during playback.) What I can't do without a veryshort interuption in the playback is to Insert softsynths. I know you said you can't either (as you get small silence/stutter, same as I get.) Forgive my ignorance, but how do you drag in a softsynth to a project in X1? In the Browser, I only see VST effects. The method I use is to go to the Browser's Browse Synth Rack tab and use the + to add a synth. Also, it's probably not a high demand request to ask for seemless functionality with inserting a softsynth during playback, but I thought I would make the request since Noel gave us the opprotunity. I much more prefer to have the seemless functionality with the adjusting of loop points. Also, this is probably a common knowledge question, so maybe someone else can answer this for me.
post edited by thomasabarnes - 2011/01/27 19:50:57
 "It's not a song till it touches your heart. It's not a song till it tears you apart!" Lyrics of Amy Grant. SONAR Platinum X64 (jBridge), Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit, Core i7 990X Extreme Edition Processor 3.46 GHz 6 Cores, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, Crucial Ballistix 24GB 1333MHz DDR3 @1333 MHz, TASCAM UH-7000, Behringer X-Touch, EVGA GTX 980TI Superclocked 6GB, 1TB Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 150GB, 320GB, 1TB 7200rpm HDDs
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brundlefly
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 19:46:03
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Forgive my ignorance, but how do you drag in a softsynth to a project in X1? In the Browser, I only see VST effects. Instruments button on the Plugins tab. P.S. There's an a in seamless.
post edited by brundlefly - 2011/01/27 19:49:53
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 19:50:04
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But usually what Cake folk bring back is a non-acknowledgment of the asset. I'm not sure if you were referring to this thread or generalizing. What do you see as non acknowledgement here? I'm out here asking for specifics in an area that we acknowledge needs improvement for the live interactive user workflow. Live is a good example of an app that was designed explicitly for this scenario. SONAR has a vast arsenal of tools and we're constantly trying to improve areas we are deficient in. That said there is no perfect app out there that is flawless for every users needs - not yet :)
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 19:54:30
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Forgive my ignorance, but how do you drag in a softsynth to a project in X1? In the Browser, I only see VST effects. The method I use is to go to the Browser's Browse Synth Rack tab and use the + to add a synth. Also, it's probably not a high demand request to ask for seemless functionality with inserting a softsynth during playback, but I thought I would make the request since Noel gave us the opprotunity. Go to the plugins tab and then click the Instruments button. That will browse synths. Then drag and drop a synth to any blank area of the track view to insert a new synth. You can also double click it to insert it. Asking for seamless playback when inserting a synth is not asking for too much. We'll look into improving it.
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thomasabarnes
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 19:59:02
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brundlefly
Forgive my ignorance, but how do you drag in a softsynth to a project in X1? In the Browser, I only see VST effects.
Instruments button on the Plugins tab.
P.S. There's an a in seamless.
HolyCow, I never even noticed the icon on the plugins tab. Thanks brundlefly. And to your P.S.. OK I reckon that that "a" is significant in the spelling. LOL I'll remember for next time. :)
"It's not a song till it touches your heart. It's not a song till it tears you apart!" Lyrics of Amy Grant. SONAR Platinum X64 (jBridge), Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit, Core i7 990X Extreme Edition Processor 3.46 GHz 6 Cores, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, Crucial Ballistix 24GB 1333MHz DDR3 @1333 MHz, TASCAM UH-7000, Behringer X-Touch, EVGA GTX 980TI Superclocked 6GB, 1TB Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 150GB, 320GB, 1TB 7200rpm HDDs
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thomasabarnes
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 20:06:40
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Forgive my ignorance, but how do you drag in a softsynth to a project in X1? In the Browser, I only see VST effects. The method I use is to go to the Browser's Browse Synth Rack tab and use the + to add a synth. Also, it's probably not a high demand request to ask for seemless functionality with inserting a softsynth during playback, but I thought I would make the request since Noel gave us the opprotunity.
Go to the plugins tab and then click the Instruments button. That will browse synths. Then drag and drop a synth to any blank area of the track view to insert a new synth. You can also double click it to insert it.
Asking for seamless playback when inserting a synth is not asking for too much. We'll look into improving it.
Noel: Thanks so much for the lesson/instructions and for recognizing my request. How about addressing that adjusting of the loop points matter, too? 
post edited by thomasabarnes - 2011/01/27 20:27:19
"It's not a song till it touches your heart. It's not a song till it tears you apart!" Lyrics of Amy Grant. SONAR Platinum X64 (jBridge), Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit, Core i7 990X Extreme Edition Processor 3.46 GHz 6 Cores, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, Crucial Ballistix 24GB 1333MHz DDR3 @1333 MHz, TASCAM UH-7000, Behringer X-Touch, EVGA GTX 980TI Superclocked 6GB, 1TB Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 150GB, 320GB, 1TB 7200rpm HDDs
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brundlefly
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 20:22:40
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HolyCow, I never even noticed the icon on the plugins tab. Thanks brundlefly. Sure thing. Easy to miss with X1 being so cluttered.
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thomasabarnes
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 20:23:15
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I just noticed there's also the stutter or short interruption of playback upon applying Edit/Undo after inserting a softsynth. In other words, when a softsynth is removed after inserting it.
post edited by thomasabarnes - 2011/01/27 20:29:42
"It's not a song till it touches your heart. It's not a song till it tears you apart!" Lyrics of Amy Grant. SONAR Platinum X64 (jBridge), Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit, Core i7 990X Extreme Edition Processor 3.46 GHz 6 Cores, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, Crucial Ballistix 24GB 1333MHz DDR3 @1333 MHz, TASCAM UH-7000, Behringer X-Touch, EVGA GTX 980TI Superclocked 6GB, 1TB Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 150GB, 320GB, 1TB 7200rpm HDDs
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Jeff Evans
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 20:28:33
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Brandon thanks for doing those tests I appreciate it. It seems that you are getting different results to me and the only thing I can think of is that your computer is pretty well spec'd up whereas mine is slightly under the min specs to run Sonar. Interesting though that I am enjoying as good as gapless performance as you under S1 (or even better as I never even get a glitch at all) and yet it is on a machine that is way under powered compared to yours. To me that means the code is better in this regard and more effecient. But having said that I am on the upgrade path too myself so I look forward to better gapless results under Sonar.
Others here though have similar computer setup to yours and they still get glitching and bad under certain circumstances.
What I would not mind knowing is if you can do a midi test with some external hardware. This may be difficult as I see that you are probably using a lot of virtual synths. I cannot get seamless operation switching tracks (midi only here) without having to stop Sonar. Is this something that is still related to my computer or a bug, not sure. I want to be able to go in and out of record, switch tracks etc all without stopping using external hardware while looping etc..
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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neiby
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 21:26:16
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]
I asked you before in an other thread but you didn't respond. Did you ever see my suggestions list for X1?
Yes I did and even commented within the context of the effects chain thread to some of your queries from that post. Perhaps you missed that. In any case thanks for posting your suggestions they were forwarded to product management.
That's excellent news. I think UnderTow has a number of excellent suggestions that are worthy of consideration. Noel, thanks again for taking the time to do this. We appreciate it.
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Danny Danzi
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 21:51:24
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Brandon, Noel, thanks soo much for taking part in this for us and please try not to get too frustrated. Though I wouldn't come off as harsh as Undertow, (sorry UT, I dig you brother but your passion is even more intense than mine...and that's scary lol) reading his posts (from a cluless consumer like myself perspective) it makes me ask "why can't they just implement what the other DAW's are doing that don't have this problem?" Surely it would be easy to implement the code and modify it for our stuff? Or isn't it that simple?
Or at least implement a code similar in different areas or something if it's too intense? Like maybe have the whole "live thing" enabled for mixing or editing or whatever. Some sort of trade off until we can figure out how to solve the issues completely? Like a work-around "for now"?
Here's an issue I have that drives me nuts that I forgot about. If I create a bus in Sonar...lets say a Verb bus. I have it already routed to the the track I need but haven't inserted the effect yet. If I bring even the Cakewalk FX verb into that bus while audio is playing back, I not only get a slight pause, the track that the verb was sent to plays out of time. I have to stop playback so it syncs back up. I also get this same thing minus the pause when enabling/disabling the bus (on/off light) on the track. It will get out of time until I stop and press play again. I've got a pretty slamming new machine buit by Jim Roseberry with a good i7 and 12 gig of RAM, great hard drives etc so I'm not so sure it's my machine.
I get this same exact thing if I bring in a UAD plug or Voxengo Prinstine Space. Every single time I get a pause and the audio that effect was sent to, is totally out of time. Could this be due to me using 4096 samples during mixing? I've never tried mixing using lower buffer sizes because I use so much stuff, I like to keep cpu usage down.
Could the poster that mentioned something about the "latency adjustment/reported asio" thing be onto something? Do you guys use that feature?
How hard would it really be to just do whatever Cubase, PT and some of the others are doing to totally eliminate this problem? I'm seriously asking that question....I don't mean it in the sarcastic way like "pfff...c'mon, how hard could it be..." Wouldn't it just be easier to attack one of their set-ups for this particular area and implement it in for us and be done with this once and for all? What functionality would we lose?
If you've read Fast Biker Boy's post on his issues, they are exactly the same as mine minus the loops thing because I don't use it. I'm all for helping you out and uploading a project for you any time you need me to as I'd like to see this get fixed and really appreciate your being here to see this through. Thanks.
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 21:57:42
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the track that the verb was sent to plays out of time. I have to stop playback so it syncs back up. I also get this same thing minus the pause when enabling/disabling the bus (on/off light) on the track. It will get out of time until I stop and press play again. I've got a pretty slamming new machine buit by Jim Roseberry with a good i7 and 12 gig of RAM, great hard drives etc so I'm not so sure it's my machine. I get this same exact thing if I bring in a UAD plug or Voxengo Prinstine Space. Every single time I get a pause and the audio that effect was sent to, is totally out of time. Could this be due to me using 4096 samples during mixing? I've never tried mixing using lower buffer sizes because I use so much stuff, I like to keep cpu usage down. That's a PDC issue... (Plugin Delay Compensation) The audio stream is playing back... then you insert a plugin (and the result is slightly delayed). Upon stopping/starting the transport, PDC corrects for the latent plugin... and all audio plays in sync. FWIW, I know Samplitude has to stop/start the transport for PDC to function correctly in this same type of scenario. I'm sure Sonar's behavior could be changed (to make the adjustment on-the-fly)... but it may not be a trivial task.
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simpleman
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/27 22:10:05
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Jeff Evans
Brandon thanks for doing those tests I appreciate it. It seems that you are getting different results to me and the only thing I can think of is that your computer is pretty well spec'd up whereas mine is slightly under the min specs to run Sonar. Interesting though that I am enjoying as good as gapless performance as you under S1 (or even better as I never even get a glitch at all) and yet it is on a machine that is way under powered compared to yours. To me that means the code is better in this regard and more effecient. But having said that I am on the upgrade path too myself so I look forward to better gapless results under Sonar.
Others here though have similar computer setup to yours and they still get glitching and bad under certain circumstances.
What I would not mind knowing is if you can do a midi test with some external hardware. This may be difficult as I see that you are probably using a lot of virtual synths. I cannot get seamless operation switching tracks (midi only here) without having to stop Sonar. Is this something that is still related to my computer or a bug, not sure. I want to be able to go in and out of record, switch tracks etc all without stopping using external hardware while looping etc..
You are always so consistent and wonderful in your description about S1's perfection. Can you for example; Start the S1 engine. Build a song of lets say forty midi tracks, forty audio and vocal tracks. Your engine keeps running as you bring in and delete various loops. Edit your midi, adds your FX and envelopes. The engine keeps running gapless as you rehearse and record your vocal chops. The engine never stops and gaps as you correct vocal pitches and then create harmonies. Then as you continue without stopping bounce down to a stereo master track. No gapping either as it burns a CD, proceeds to convert to mp3 and publish to the Cloud. Wow! silky smooth S1 really can do this. I have a hunch the programmers who writes Studio One has a secret coding recipe that Sonar will never know unless they "buy it". They will try to eliminate it as much as possible but will never achieve the silky smooth perfection S1 has. Me I am a bit lazy, not as proficient and need to take a break often enough. This makes Sonar okay for me. I set up loop points here and there to practice or edit segments, doing this I may get a glitch depending on the cross-over point; this can be a nuisance.
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brundlefly
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/28 03:07:59
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mike_mccue
FWIW, The last time I fooled with Prochannel my system went into digital runaway distortion... the first time I have ever experienced this in SONAR.
As a matter of fact, I don't think I have experienced this in my studio in years.
I suddenly appreciated the soft dropout feature in SONAR that I have come to take for granted in the past several versions.
Something is up... I hope X1B fixes it.
I really appreciate that everyone at Cakewalk seems to be working hard on all this stuff.
All the best,
mike
Mike, I've been meaning to ask whether you have made any changes to the ZeroFilldB or ZeroFillMethod settings in Aud.INI related to preventing denormal errors. It's a long shot, and I don't even know if a denormal error could cause something like what you experienced, but if you did make changes, possibly the settings that worked for 8.5 are not suitable for X1.
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brundlefly
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/28 03:15:23
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What I would not mind knowing is if you can do a midi test with some external hardware. This may be difficult as I see that you are probably using a lot of virtual synths. I cannot get seamless operation switching tracks (midi only here) without having to stop Sonar. Is this something that is still related to my computer or a bug, not sure. I want to be able to go in and out of record, switch tracks etc all without stopping using external hardware while looping etc. Jeff, I use hardware synths regularly. If you can clarify the circumstances under which you experience problems, I will be glad to do tests in both 8.5 and X1. What exactly do you mean by "switching tracks"?
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timboe
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/28 04:34:34
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Well ........ over 200 posts and over 3600 views just on the topic of " gapless audio " + substantial input and discussion from the CTO and others from CW.
This is very heartening.
Whislt clearly we will see nothing specifc in X1b ......... I'd be amazed if this whole " making the audio engine as gapless as possbile " was not very high on the X2 List - the fact that so many other leading DAW's do it [ a lot ] better than X1 means it is just too big a comparative / relative issue to ignore.
Tim
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Jeff Evans
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/28 05:42:30
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Hi Brundlefly I would appreciate you doing this so thanks. Basically setup some external synths say 3 or 4 and create a separate track for each. Drums, bass, synth etc.
Setup a loop say from bar 2 to bar 6. Metronome on. Park on first track. Start and go into play, stay in play for the moment and rehearse what you might play on this first track. Go into record on the fly and when the loop comes around to start of bar 2 play in some music for 4 bars. While still looping and without stopping, switch tracks or jump down onto next track using down arrow. You are now on next track below. You should still be recording. You could come out of record (on the fly) and rehearse the next part. When you know what you are going to do pucnh into record on the fly, record some music on the second track.
Maybe stay in record and jump using down arrow onto next track and start playing some stuff there.
In Sonar I cannot do this. It won't let me jump tracks. Sometimes the music on the first track goes away or I have to stop before I can go onto next track. Any newly recorded data wont stick or stay behind until I stop.
Studio One allows me to do all of it, track switching, in and out of record etc..without a glitch, very fast and musical. New data just appears and remains behind as a midi clip. If I am in record, S1 stays in record, if I am play it stays in play etc..
This is only a midi situation right now, not using audio engine at all here as such. I am only on 8.5 right now but I would be interested in how your system handles this both in 8.5 and X1. Thanks again.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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Guest
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Re:" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?
2011/01/28 10:19:17
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Here's a question on something Brandon said in an earlier thread. Let's say I have 16 measures of audio on a track and I slip edit it to one beat. Then I copy that on beat and paste it 47 times on the next 47 beats giving me 48 beats of the exact same slip edited clip that is one quarter note long.
Am I silently streaming the same 16 measures of audio 48 times over the 16 beats of playback? If so, doesn't that seem very inefficient ?
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