" Gapless Audio Engine " ..... any chance X1b will [ contine to ] improve this ?

Sonething I have  always been quite jealous of with my  Live  [ and now S1 ]  colleagues is their Gapless Audio Engine - it feels incredibly liberating to just keep the engine / song playing whilst you do [ virtually ]  anything to it
 
Sonar 8.5.3 - and now X1 - has come a long way in this respect, but equally, in this respect  [ gapless audio engine ]  8.5.3 / X1 is a *long* way behind.
 
I recall very well - I think it was Sonar 3 or Sonar 4 - that CW advertised its main feature as " gapless audio "  - but it [ barely ]  worked at all - I remeber CW felt quite  "burned" by that episode and retracted the "gapless audio" claim very soon after release.
 
However ..... to their credit, with each versiion, they have worked on this, but it still remains a long way behind   LIVE / S1.
 
Anyway ......... long-way-short .........  with all that is on the current X1b  "plate",   may we also see some further steps in this direction.
 
Thx,
Tim

I suspect X1b will be bugs only (well I hope it's just bugs only - however trivial/minor/major). This appears to be an enhancement request.

"It'll probably be in a "paid" upgrade LOL"

heh,

Didnt we pay for a "gappless audio engine" in Sonar 3 billy? 

But of course it could be called "The even more gapless audio engine!" this round.

Best,

"If nothing else, I think the  8.5.3<->X1 is the last time we will see  1 x Annual  *major*  release - smaller updates + smaller proces + more bug fixing I think will be the new model for some time at least." 

I don't think this will ever happen. Would be a tech support nightmare. 

I think sonar would need complete rewrite for this-

Ive heard studio one does this. This would be suuwweeeet- Ive mentioned this more than once here on the forum-

Lanceindastudio


I think sonar would need complete rewrite for this-

Ive heard studio one does this. This would be suuwweeeet- Ive mentioned this more than once here on the forum-

Haven't we all - for years ;)
 
 

I remember reading Ron Kuper post in another forum that "Gapless Audio Engine" was something that he wished he never heard of.  To the point that it was affecting his private life.

I don't think that this will ever be accomplished with SONAR as we know it.

ba_midi

timboe


Hi Billy  and Scott

" ........ It'll probably be in a "paid" upgrade ........... "

If it meant an audio engine that is truly at least as good  [ or ideally better ]  than  LIVE's  gapless audio implementation, I'd happily pay for it.

Imagine  8.5.3  + key bugs fixed +  Pro Channel + Pro Channel as standalone VST's +  Media Browser + screen sets
+ further Audio Engine optimizations + a  minor  GUI de-cluttering .......... but I digress !!!

Having said that, I reckon the whole " X1 maelstrom "  could well result in  more-incremental-paid-updates [ at lower prices ]  but with key features added and implememented each time.

If nothing else, I think the  8.5.3<->X1 is the last time we will see  1 x Annual  *major*  release - smaller updates + smaller prices + more bug fixing I think will be the new model for some time at least.

Tim

Considering I bought Studio One Pro for a couple hundred just to check out what else is out there, I DEFINITELY would be willing to pay for a serious audio engine overhaul (gapless) and some big bug fixes.
 
I can't speak for everyone - we all have different budgets and price-points, but I do think it'd be worth it to me (if it was reasonable).
 
IF these things were addressed with a full commitment from CW, I think it would be really hard to beat Sonar in the DAW market.
They are so close, but just not there yet, imho.
 


When is the last time CW has made a FULL COMMITMENT to any thing ???  For the last few years it has been nothing but a bunch of bugs that have not been fixed, (that have been present through multiple versions), half baked ideas, unfinished bullet points, and plugins that are 2nd rate when they do work !!

SONAR CLASSIC..................BUG FIXES,      NO BLOAT...........................and a return to the 8.5 GUI !!!
 

If you wanted gapless Cake should have continued development of P5.

@

He apparently mixed up gapless with CAPLESS.

What a good Samaritan.

Best,

I think it is important to differentiate between different causes of gapping. There is the gapping caused by a change of state of the audio engine. By that I mean things like changing the routing, adding or removing FX plugins, adding or removing Instruments, adding or removing tracks or busses. There is also gapping caused by things that should not affect the state of the audio engine. By that I mean things like editing audio or MIDI clips. Changing loop points. Saving the project etc.

A small gap caused by an audio engine state change like when adding a heavy plugin to an already heavy project is relatively benign as far as I am concerned. Of course if Cakewalk can somehow prevent this or minimise it then so much the better. On the other hand a gap caused by anything that doesn't change the audio engine's state like changing the loop points or saving is utterly unacceptable in a modern DAW as far as I am concerned.

First there is the technical aspect: I think that a well designed DAW shouldn't need to glitch when doing anything that doesn't affect the audio engine directly. If things are properly prioritised, the audio engine should always get all the necessary resources to perform it's work. Everything else should be subordinate to this.

Secondly there is the experience of the user: If you are performing a task that affects the state of the audio engine, you will more or less expect an audio glitch. If you are working in an analogue studio, you will expect a glitch when you plug or unplug a piece of equipment (and will probably mute or dim your monitoring before you do it) but when you are just editing a MIDI clip, changing loop points or simply saving the project, you do not expect the audio to be affected and the glitch always comes as a hard jarring that snaps you out of the creative flow not to mention an annoying auditory experience.

I really think that after X1b comes out (I don't expect a fix for gapping in this version) the development team should first and foremost focus their attention on the audio engine. There really is no point in spending resources on anything else in Sonar until this works because they have to make sure that anything else they change will not affect the audio engine once it is fixed. There is no point in continuing any development if the base of the software is broken.

Fixing the audio engine in Sonar really should be priority number one at Cakewalk if they want to be taken seriously in the music industry. This should not be a paying upgrade. Don't push this back to X2 (or even further). Cakewalk promised a gappless audio engine in Sonar 3. It is about time they delivered on their promise.

UnderTow

spanky


Gapless audio doesn't mean hoot to me either Kalle Rantaaho. The only thing I seem to do while the engine is playing is either saving or scrolling through the options to do something else. I have no problem stopping the song for 2 seconds to insert something. But I guess if the other guys do it, Sonar should too, right?

The only thing a DAW has to do is play audio. Sonar is and has always been the worst at doing that. It will stop for absolutely no reason. Any little glitch causes a drop out. This is the problem that needed to be dealt with not some silly GUI.

spanky

10Ten

spanky


Gapless audio doesn't mean hoot to me either Kalle Rantaaho. The only thing I seem to do while the engine is playing is either saving or scrolling through the options to do something else. I have no problem stopping the song for 2 seconds to insert something. But I guess if the other guys do it, Sonar should too, right?

The only thing a DAW has to do is play audio. Sonar is and has always been the worst at doing that. It will stop for absolutely no reason. Any little glitch causes a drop out. This is the problem that needed to be dealt with not some silly GUI.

Then why do you use it?

Because I have already spent the money  on Sonar and they won't give it back. Sonar X1 has me looking to spend $600 on someone else's product though. Thanks. This question and answer will look great on Google.

UnderTow

On the other hand a gap caused by anything that doesn't change the audio engine's state like changing the loop points or saving is utterly unacceptable in a modern DAW as far as I am concerned.

+1E99

spanky


Gapless audio doesn't mean hoot to me either Kalle Rantaaho.

That isn't exactly what Kalle Rantaaho wrote... But much more importantly, what is that thing with the blue hoops beside your left monitor?

The only thing I seem to do while the engine is playing is either saving or scrolling through the options to do something else. I have no problem stopping the song for 2 seconds to insert something.

See my post. It isn't just when inserting things. It happens all the time and for things that shouldn't affect playback.

But I guess if the other guys do it, Sonar should too, right?

If Cakewalk want Sonar to be considered a modern DAW, yes. If Cakewalk want to compete with the likes of Steinberg, Presonus, Ableton, Avid, yes. If Cakewalk want Sonar to appeal to musicians that like to get into the flow of things without continuous disruptions, then yes. In other words, yes.

I am quite sure that if Sonar was gappless and you got used to that condition, you would start caring about it and wouldn't want to go back.

UnderTow