The Maillard Reaction
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/29 08:58:34
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"It's kinda like that TV show Hill Street Blues."
My Father David worked with the Director of Photography on all the lighting down at CBS Studios Radford near Hollywood, Ca as the Gaffer on every Hill Street Blues show back in the day. Look for a David Lee on the end credits, he's their every week.
I will Scott.
I do a bit of gaffing myself so I'll keep an eye out for that... honestly I haven't seen the show in a while but now I have great reason to seek it out.
all the best,
mike
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Scott Lee
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/29 09:02:19
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Hi Mike,
Nice You in the 728 union? I still have my card active but been on the audio side of things for a long time. Its more of a backup.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/29 09:29:03
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No, Florida is weird... I work outside the loop at scale... the guys hate it... but that's what I do.
I'm represented by IBEW local 1200 out of Maryland because of some weird East Coast thing but that is for a few specific gig I do.
I'm known to many DPs and producers as the sound guy that gaffs.
My Dad used to run lights at the Jackie Gleason theater in Miami... he was actually a EE with a day job as well. Growing up with a real EE gave me the opportunity to understand electricity as well as the professional responsibility to not melt anything down.
I grew up taking photos and using stand lights etc.
If I lived in your market I'd be on the straight and narrow but I don't and there is no one job that is consistent enough for me to pay the large dues... so I just wait til they need help and then I get my call.
No excuses... just what it is.
all the best,
mike
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jm24
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/29 11:06:23
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I think the implementaion of the MS Tabbed-Ribbon paradigm is sad.
I support windows computers for about 12 small companies, and a couple dozen individuals. Those that moved to Office 2007 were way unhappy with the Ribbon: static tabs replacing menus and 1-click command bars added at least 1 click to nearly every action. (Vista and 7 added extra steps to the operation system; increased time to configure and support.)
Outlook 2010 now has full ribbon implimentation. And many 1-click buttons and 1-click toggles have been replaced with drop-down menus. Annoying at best.
An example in X1 is the staff view which now has a dropdown for note value selection.
The new interface not only moves stuff its implimentation has sacrificed speed for looking cool, by reducing button size and legibility (R) for looking cool Dots.
A great direction for new users. But as with many of my clients (most in business settings) are irate that they have to waste time looking for what has moved, and then finding they now have to learn extra steps, we find many long time CW software users experiencing the same confusion and amazement with X1.
I maintain that X1 is not Sonar. The MS Ribbon is not a good interface and Sonar's implemenation of it was not thought-through.
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Scott Lee
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/29 12:58:42
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Hi JM24,
My opinion about that matter is, I really actually love the new UI. I do come from the old school Cakewalk Pro Audio folks and actually much prefer the new workflow and look.
The problem that I am having is just the bugs, crashing and showstoppers. If everything worked as advertised (and some of the old cakewalk bugs eliminated) I would be one happy cookie.
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ba_midi
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Scott Lee
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ba_midi
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/29 14:30:22
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pwal
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/29 15:09:56
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Scott Lee
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/29 15:32:06
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"NO NO Scott -- I want the one that lets me adjust the colors!!" If you use the Hue / Saturation / Brightness sliders you can change the 2 bolts and silver handle.  Best,
post edited by Scott Lee - 2010/12/29 15:34:15
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jm24
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/29 18:10:26
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I too am unhappy about the years of unfixed features.
No doubt many new ways of doing stuff quicker have been added. But many have changed from 1-click buttons to 2 click change tabs, and dropdowns.
And that I will have to create screen sets so the edit tools can be set for each use to obviate the universal settings seems like something that should be built-in.
My experience with static-tabs with large pictures is that they result in slow down. Example: MS Office, changing windows: with menus: click window, click to select... with ribbon: click view to change tab, click window, click to select, and then click another tab to continue; at least 2 added clicks. This is not progress.
A drop down to change note values will add hundreds of extra steps and distraction. And for what purpose? Create "free" non-usable space?
I have read the SAVE button is gone. This is a good thing as I never SAVE, I always SAVE-AS. Save is destructive and destruction should always require confirmation. But still no SAVE-AS button.
I was hoping for project import/export. Essentially track templates with data. All the code exists but it is not connected.
And of course the many bugs and under-sights:
The envelope problems with copying/pasting that have existed for years.
Can't copy bus envelopes between buses.....
And so on.
Dissappointing for the non-fixed stuff, and changes that seem mostly in the interest of ease of use for new users (the ribbon).
MS office does provide for a quick start bar, 'tis a 1-click, customizable tool bar. Does X1 have this?
J
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ba_midi
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/29 18:19:18
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My experience with static-tabs with large pictures is that they result in slow down. Example: MS Office, changing windows: with menus: click window, click to select... with ribbon: click view to change tab, click window, click to select, and then click another tab to continue; at least 2 added clicks. This is not progress. A drop down to change note values will add hundreds of extra steps and distraction. And for what purpose? Create "free" non-usable space?
JM, I often wonder as well -- does a company like CW base their design decisions solely on an in-house approach? Meaning, does the head of whatever department dictate what will be? And if so, is there ANY effort to get feedback from outside? I'm sure CW would forcefully say yes, that they don't do things in a box, so to speak. But unless this forum is a horrible "sampling" of the user base (which it may well be, for all I know), then I would think that SOMEONE SOMEWHERE (Brandon, Seth, others, perhaps) were speaking out about at least a few of the decisisons. You pointed out a few areas, and I've made mention of one that I think really fits the "Wha???" groove: We USED to be able to click on the Edit menu, then Bounce To Tracks. It always was exactly in the same place each time because the top menus didn't move around. NOW, that 'function' (bounce to tracks) is in the Track View under Tracks tab. All well and good. BUT if you happen to use a mouse gesture to get to it, it moves it's location depending on whether you have the Inspector visible or not. So it's like a moving target. Of course there are those who will say "Just use a keybinding." Yes - doable. NOT always practical depending on where your mouse/hand/cursor is at the time. I think certain functions should be static, like this one. But, after all, we're not the design team -- we're just the users 
post edited by ba_midi - 2010/12/29 18:20:30
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B San
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/29 21:23:18
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ba_midi
We USED to be able to click on the Edit menu, then Bounce To Tracks. It always was exactly in the same place each time because the top menus didn't move around.
Yes I just installed X1 today (not on my main studio computer) & this was the first thing that I noticed that would cripple my workflow... Because I mix much of the time using hardware via the External Insert, 'bounce to tracks' is one of my most selected options. I use the widows short cut by hitting Alt, E, K... Now that 'bounce to tracks' is missing from the Edit menu - I would no longer be able to perform at the speed that I am accustomed to... This is reason enough for me to keep Sonar 8.5.3 as my main studio DAW for the foreseeable future!!
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650 3.0GHz, 8GB RAM Corsair xms2 (4 x 2B), Asus P5Q Delux, NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS, RME AIO, UA 2192, Lynx Aurora 8, UAD-2 Quad (x2), UAD-1 PCI, Duende PCIe, Powercore FW, Dual Boot system ft. XP Pro SP2 & Win 7 Pro 64bit, Studio One Pro v.2, Sonar 8.5.3, Samplitude ProX, Sonar X1d Expanded
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Scott Lee
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/29 21:29:45
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Speaking of Braydon, Seth, Robin and Noel, they've been quiet lately.
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HumbleNoise
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/29 21:36:44
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"NOW, that 'function' (bounce to tracks) is in the Track View under Tracks tab. All well and good. BUT if you happen to use a mouse gesture to get to it, it moves it's location depending on whether you have the Inspector visible or not." Billy, I'm not seeing that behavior, It's always in the track menu (makes sense to have it there to me) whether I have the inspector open or not. Of course this is coming from someone who isn't very set in many older ways as I'm just a part time user, but it seems to me it's just in a different place. Of course one can argue that moving familiar things is a bad thing but that horse left the barn. "I use the widows short cut by hitting Alt, E, K... Now that 'bounce to tracks' is missing from the Edit menu - I would no longer be able to perform at the speed that I am accustomed to... This is reason enough for me to keep Sonar 8.5.3 as my main studio DAW for the foreseeable future!!" B San, Bounce to track is still there, it's just under a different menu - and you can bind it to any key you'd like. Again I'm no power user but I can't see how this could be a problem other than learning another way to do the same thing. Still curious about your experience Billy re:bounce to track and the Inspector.
post edited by HumbleNoise - 2010/12/29 21:40:01
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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ba_midi
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/29 21:38:57
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B San
ba_midi
We USED to be able to click on the Edit menu, then Bounce To Tracks. It always was exactly in the same place each time because the top menus didn't move around.
Yes I just installed X1 today (not on my main studio computer) & this was the first thing that I noticed that would cripple my workflow... Because I mix much of the time using hardware via the External Insert, 'bounce to tracks' is one of my most selected options.
I use the widows short cut by hitting Alt, E, K... Now that 'bounce to tracks' is missing from the Edit menu - I would no longer be able to perform at the speed that I am accustomed to...
This is reason enough for me to keep Sonar 8.5.3 as my main studio DAW for the foreseeable future!!
Well it's fair to say you can just reassign your keybindings (since some of those are now used by X1). I made CTRL SHIFT T my "bounce to tracks". But keybindings are not always what I need. Sometimes my hand is already on the mouse and it's much easier to scoop up to a menu if it's handily available. Regardless, there are definite some strangely thought out things I'm finding.
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ba_midi
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/29 21:40:02
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Scott Lee
Speaking of Braydon, Seth, Robin and Noel, they've been quiet lately.
I would guess their shrinks or wives told them to stay far away from these forums until after the holidays LOL
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ba_midi
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/29 21:42:21
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Billy, I'm not seeing that behavior, It's always in the track menu (makes sense to have it there to me) whether I have the inspector open or not. Of course this is coming from someone who isn't very set in many older ways as I'm just a part time user, but it seems to me it's just in a different place. Of course one can argue that moving familiar things is a bad thing but that horse left the barn. I don't think you fully understood. So let me see if I can be clearer. When the Inspector is open, the literal position (coordinate) on the screen where one would click to get to the Tracks Tab is in one place. Now close the Inpector. That literal position has changed. Like this: Inspector open ---- "Tracks" Inspector closed --- "Tracks" See what i mean? And I must add - this has nothing to do with 'old ways.' This has all to do with workflow and speed of doing so.
post edited by ba_midi - 2010/12/29 21:50:50
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ba_midi
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/29 21:47:26
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Here's another oddity - and I can't tell if this was intended or not (I HOPE NOT!):
If I select a clip in the clips pane and then open the PRV which is in the multi-dock - the entire clip's notes default to 'selected'.
So, more often than not, I want to work on one note or a few notes, not ALL the notes in the clip at the same time in the PRV.
Therefor, I first have to do some gesture to deselect them or to use a gesture to select just the one I want to change/edit.
Boy that's a real slow-me-downer :(
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HumbleNoise
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/29 21:53:49
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Ahh.. I understand the literal position. The 'All Note Selected' dilemma was discussed in another thread and the general consensus was that that was by design and made design sense as well.
Makes me NUTS.
EVERY TIME!
My PRV ALWAYS defaults to 'show velocity' another PIA I can't change.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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ba_midi
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/29 22:00:43
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HumbleNoise
Ahh.. I understand the literal position. The 'All Note Selected' dilemma was discussed in another thread and the general consensus was that that was by design and made design sense as well.
Makes me NUTS.
EVERY TIME!
My PRV ALWAYS defaults to 'show velocity' another PIA I can't change.
I'll be honest/frank: I'm not happy with the PRV changes AT ALL. I can't believe how much it slowed me down tonight. It's the first time I've really dug in to editing some tracks. And again, this has NOTHING to do with old ways (I'm so not one of those stuck in mud types). Having ALL notes selected because I selected a clip to edit makes NO sense to me whatsoever. But that's not the end of it. The height of the controller pane is silly. Why couldn't the default height be some reasonable ratio? I don't want to see my velocity controller pane 80% of the screen with notes only 20%. Sure, I can maximize the PRV (ahem, another click), but that doesn't make sense. I dunno... I keep runnin' into some walls that are not fun.
post edited by ba_midi - 2010/12/29 22:01:48
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HumbleNoise
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/29 22:02:52
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Do you get default 'Show Velocity' with PRV? I have to click it 'on' then click it 'off' to get them to disappear - or my template is screwed up.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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ba_midi
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/29 22:03:22
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The 'All Note Selected' dilemma was discussed in another thread and the general consensus was that that was by design and made design sense as well. I don't recall that thread or post(s) -- what was the concept behind it making 'sense' to have ALL notes selected when going into the PRV? I'd love to see that thread because it really makes no sense to me (I'm being redundant, I know - but boy is it slowing me down!).
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ba_midi
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/29 22:04:56
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HumbleNoise
Do you get default 'Show Velocity' with PRV? I have to click it 'on' then click it 'off' to get them to disappear - or my template is screwed up.
I like having the controller pane showing rather than the velocity bars (ie, no controller pane). But as I said, when viewing the PRV, the controller pane takes up about 80% of that screen height leaving about 20% showing the actual notes. Wha????
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ba_midi
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/29 23:59:43
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Here's another cute slow-me-down:
IF I use Pro Channel on a track, and I don't have the track selected by clicking on it's track # (iow, so the track is active but not selected), there is no way to SOLO or MUTE that track without having to do some other gesture - like moving my mouse to the "M" ute on the track, or by clicking on the Pro Channel tab to get back to the track FX bin.
That doesn't make sense to me. An oversight perhaps, but not well thought out.
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Middleman
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/30 00:14:13
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ba_midi
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/30 00:26:26
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Middleman
From what view TV or CV?
TV. Let me be clearer: There simply is no M or S button in the Pro Channel view in TV. I may have that open and be working on some eq or compression while also having clicking somewhere in the clips pane. But then I want to solo the track I'm doing the processing on ... This forces me to move my hand/mouse somewhere else or to click on a different tab in the channel strip. This really isn't logical to not have M/S handily there. Check it out - you'll see what I mean.
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Middleman
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/30 00:34:27
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Got it. That is not an issue here. I have the Alphatrack and with the clik of a button I get the compressor view versus the track controls view. I do this using Screenset 1 for the Compressors view and Screenset 2 for the track view. I can then clik on the track, hit button 1 or 2 and move quickly to the control required. You could probably set this up under a key binding as well.
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ba_midi
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/30 00:53:58
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Middleman
Got it. That is not an issue here. I have the Alphatrack and with the clik of a button I get the compressor view versus the track controls view. I do this using Screenset 1 for the Compressors view and Screenset 2 for the track view. I can then clik on the track, hit button 1 or 2 and move quickly to the control required. You could probably set this up under a key binding as well.
Phil, I understand we all have different ways we like to work. I personally find not having Mute/Solo buttons right there where I'm already moving my mouse to make adjustments a worfklow inhibitor. I have workarounds as well, just like you do. But I think they could have given us those useful M/S buttons maybe up top near the preset area (there's some blank/unused space) and that would have been helpful. There's a saying in a book on contrapuntal technique I always remember, and it comes to mind here: "When a melody continually is falling or rising, the listener looses interest". I'm finding a number of issues with workflow that are wearing me down a bit. And this is not a matter of learning something new. I learn *really* fast. Always did. This is more a matter of understanding what's available to me as a tool and/or workflow -- and that which is not. At any rate, I would have preferred to have that functionality readily at my disposal. It would have come in very handy for the way I work on a tune tonight. BTW, I have a few control surfaces that also would let me mute or solo tracks, but it still would have meant moving my hand much further away unnecessarily.
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Middleman
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Re:A PLEA: To Cakewalk and staff.
2010/12/30 01:14:24
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Well I have the the inspector docked on the left side right next to the track controls. The compressor showing and the mute/solo is about 1 inch to the right for the track I am working. I agree we all have different ways of working but, it's a new paradigm and we have to adapt a bit.
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