I'll opt out. FWIW the feature I most want improved in SPlat is notation, and it's also the feature I almost never use (in Sonar), because, frankly, well... you know (insert dead horse emoticon here). How is someone going to gauge how to improve this, and other less-than-optimally implemented features (like, say, touch), for example from "analytics"? The suggested fix for Video issues in Sonar is commonly "Get Vegas". As a result, analytics might suggest that video in Sonar is rarely used, when in fact it's implemented state has caused users to move on to use something else, either in conjunction with, or instead of, Sonar. Step Sequencer? ("Use FL Studio (Reason/Geist)") Substitute your own example of a feature you don't use much but, which, if it was better implemented, you would use a lot.
In my estimation analytics will tend to drive improvements on features that are already well implemented and used (and while I agree that this should result in an improved focus on workflow of the most commonly used features - I am afraid the result will be more "Add Track" buttons), and away from user Feature Requests.

It sure feels that the feature requests users have been submitting/posting/waiting for have been a waste of time. I am frankly disappointed in the implementation rate of user feature requests - as I see it emphasis on "analytics" is going to further escalate the slide.

Sorry but the whole thing seems like a(nother) gimmick to me.
I know - just shut up and turn it off. Will do.

tenfoot
 ... there are no doubt many more casual users/dabblers that use Sonar than there are people who use it productively. Add to that the likelihood that experienced computer users are far more likely to turn data collection features off -   I hope in the aftermath of all of the skewed feedback we don't see a dumbing down of Sonar...

 
Completely agree.
 
As a confirmed dabbler, hobbyist, and experienced computer user, I share the concern about these behaviors skewing the results.  Even as a dabbler, I want the most sophisticated DAW, not a "dumbed down" feature set.
 

Paul P
I'd like some more detailed examples of what might be collected and how it could help in Sonar's future.  There are very powerful functions that many probably don't know about so will never use, or that have bugs so that those that know of it won't use it either.  Does that mean the function can be removed because no one is using it ?

 
Again, I completely agree here.
 
As an example, I no longer use the Notation View.  I have moved to a second DAW's pre-release software for Notation due to the legacy feature's problems and sub-optimal workflow.  Analytics would indicate that Notation is not an important feature to me, while the truth is that I would be a heavy user if the feature's problems were corrected.
 
The collection of analytics is of no concern to me.  Only the questionable information and false conclusions that they may provide.

-- Ron

John T
Well, they're not saying "we're now going to base all decisions on this new analytics data and disregard all other input".

No they're not - but honestly, how would you assess the rate of implementation of user submitted feature requests to date? IMO, I don't think I could give them a C grade in that respect (but concede they scored a couple of A's for features that were not User originated.) I see analytics as a further step backwards from the vantage point of a user still holding out hope that there will be a concerted effort to implement user submitted improvement ideas. (My 2 cents).

BRuys
 
I'm a little tired of protest for protests sake.

To be honest, that is nowhere near as much of a thing as it used to be. I can recall being told by a chap that he KNEW I was on Cakewalk's payroll because I said something mildly positive about some feature or other. This was about five or so years ago.

Place was crazy back then, IMO. It's fairly reasonable on here these days.

SquireBum

tenfoot
 ... there are no doubt many more casual users/dabblers that use Sonar than there are people who use it productively. Add to that the likelihood that experienced computer users are far more likely to turn data collection features off -   I hope in the aftermath of all of the skewed feedback we don't see a dumbing down of Sonar...

 
Completely agree.
 
As a confirmed dabbler, hobbyist, and experienced computer user, I share the concern about these behaviors skewing the results.  Even as a dabbler, I want the most sophisticated DAW, not a "dumbed down" feature set.
 

Paul P
I'd like some more detailed examples of what might be collected and how it could help in Sonar's future.  There are very powerful functions that many probably don't know about so will never use, or that have bugs so that those that know of it won't use it either.  Does that mean the function can be removed because no one is using it ?

 
Again, I completely agree here.
 
As an example, I no longer use the Notation View.  I have moved to a second DAW's pre-release software for Notation due to the legacy feature's problems and sub-optimal workflow.  Analytics would indicate that Notation is not an important feature to me, while the truth is that I would be a heavy user if the feature's problems were corrected.
 
The collection of analytics is of no concern to me.  Only the questionable information and false conclusions that they may provide.

-- Ron

Very good post. 
This is a concern that I share.
 

I'll surely be opting in.

I see this as an effort on Cakewalk's side to make sonar a better music making machine.

Snehankur

Anderton
Someone suggested this in the forums a while back, and I thought it was a good idea.
 

There are lot many people have suggested other ideas as well - since long time back - and you think those ideas were bad?
 
Regards
Snehankur

Of course not. Just because I think some ideas are good doesn't mean I think other ideas were bad. I'm very glad other popular forum-based requests like synth recording, upsampling, the functionality of patch points, more optimizations, and additions to Mix Recall were implemented.

With all due respect, those people who think analytics will dominate all decisions about the program, and cause less-used features to be removed, really need to review the opening post of this thread. According to Cakewalk, analytics are about expanding on the existing ways of taking the pulse of the community: 
 
"Feedback has always been important to us. We already use information from forums, surveys, press, dealers, and social media to gain perspectives on how new updates to SONAR are doing, and what needs more work. Unfortunately this doesn’t always tell us how the experience is for the larger population of customers outside of these channels. Analytics are the best way to gauge the in-app customer experience. Your feedback in all these places is very important to us, and we’d like to continue to expand our understanding of how you use our software." 
 
I think that's quite unambiguous. Also those who think analytics means less-used features will be removed need to be reminded of this:
 
We’ll be able to find out what features are popular, ways to improve features, roadblocks that users encounter, and how well new features integrate with your workflow. However, this doesn’t mean that we won’t pay attention to features that are less used. We see this as an opportunity to look at less used features and improve them. 
 
For example, those who say they don't use notation because it doesn't meet what they want (even though some people do very sophisticated work in staff view) think that means Cakewalk would assume people don't want improvements in notation. Based on the two statements above, that concern makes no sense. Furthermore if new users start to use notation and bail, that info will bolster those who want to see changes. It seems many of the concerns here are based on making assumptions that contradict Cakewalk's stated intentions. 

Tom Riggs
Thanks for the heads up. I will give it a try however my internet is sometimes a bit spotty. As long as I do not find it slowing me down I don't mind leaving the analytics turned on. 
The main reason I do not use the start screen is that it slows me down when starting.

The analytics is unnoticeable when working. All its doing is capturing some really lightweight data about the operations performed and some high level summary information about the project and SONAR's configuration settings. It probably takes microseconds to log that info. You are also free to turn analytics on and off at will anytime. When its off its completely dead and will never even execute. If there is no internet detected it will write the data to disk and only send it at a future date.

For me,  I have opted in and out on different applications.  At first I would turn everything off.  Then I learned more about what it does and how it's not user data but usage data and why wouldn't I want to have something that better fits how I want to work?
 
Now with applications that I use a lot that from vendors I trust, I'll turn on the usage data as I'd like to see improvements.  Some I've seen update and address frustration points I had without me even having to report an issue.  That's cool.
 
So imagine an app that fits what you want to do, like picking up a perfectly setup guitar or playing on a well regulated piano where the touch is just how you like it.  When you can be in the zone and flowing, amazing things happen.  In no way do we want to break creative flow. On the contrary, we want to improve it by reducing friction and obstacles to help our current and new users.  As Lance said, we look at feedback from many sources, so to suddenly stop looking at everything else would be foolish.
 
We're passionate SONAR users too.  Rest assured we don't want to wreck our experience or yours either!  We are excited about the future and want to thank you for your past, current and future part in that.  Let's create/record/edit/mix/<insert verb> some great music!
 
Keith
 
 

dcumpian
Personally, I think it's a fine idea if there is a way while tracking workflow where we can stop what we are doing, click a button and tell you guys "right here, it would be great if Sonar would let me do X by doing Y...". That would be really awesome.
 
Regards,
Dan

 
Dan I like that idea a lot. In the first cut we will be doing the minimum but I don't see why we cannot expand this feature as we reap its benefits.

Brando
I'll opt out. FWIW the feature I most want improved in SPlat is notation, and it's also the feature I almost never use (in Sonar), because, frankly, well... you know (insert dead horse emoticon here). How is someone going to gauge how to improve this, and other less-than-optimally implemented features (like, say, touch), for example from "analytics"? The suggested fix for Video issues in Sonar is commonly "Get Vegas". As a result, analytics might suggest that video in Sonar is rarely used, when in fact it's implemented state has caused users to move on to use something else, either in conjunction with, or instead of, Sonar. Step Sequencer? ("Use FL Studio (Reason/Geist)") Substitute your own example of a feature you don't use much but, which, if it was better implemented, you would use a lot.
In my estimation analytics will tend to drive improvements on features that are already well implemented and used (and while I agree that this should result in an improved focus on workflow of the most commonly used features - I am afraid the result will be more "Add Track" buttons), and away from user Feature Requests.

It sure feels that the feature requests users have been submitting/posting/waiting for have been a waste of time. I am frankly disappointed in the implementation rate of user feature requests - as I see it emphasis on "analytics" is going to further escalate the slide.

Sorry but the whole thing seems like a(nother) gimmick to me.
I know - just shut up and turn it off. Will do.

Actually Brando's point is why you can't just skew the data toward "power users."  The new users won't know about the ineffectiveness of [insert your feature here] and will try to use it.  The analytics collected from them will show the workstream they are trying to use and potentially result in improvement to those features.
 
 

dwardzala
Actually Brando's point is why you can't just skew the data toward "power users."  The new users won't know about the ineffectiveness of [insert your feature here] and will try to use it.  The analytics collected from them will show the workstream they are trying to use and potentially result in improvement to those features.

It does seem that Cakewalk is doing this for the clueless new users in the interests of making Sonar easier/simpler to learn and operate.  That's ok in itself, but doesn't do much for experienced users.  For these, problem reports and feature requests are probably more significant.

Noel, your link is broken.  Edge can't find the site.

Beepster
 As for the smartphone comparison... I don't use those and never will. If I was ever in a situation where I HAD to use one I would do everything in my power to circumvent every creepy little thingamadoodle installed on it designed to collect data.

My kind of guy!
 
How would this work if you keep your DAW offline?