John T
Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6783
- Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 09:36:56
(permalink)
mettelus
I didn't read through this all, but the "rewards" idea could be made even simpler and useful IMO (only caught a few comments on this before typing this post).
Example... someone who puts 40+ hours a week behind the wheel of SONAR should get higher precedence in both bug reporting and feature requests over those who have used SONAR for 15 minutes combined in the past 3 months. This does not imply that they "go to the head of the line" and trump everyone else outright, but that their opinions and votes count for "more value" (2:1, 5:1, whatever...) Even a simple "hours logged" multiplier (with fudge factor to keep numbers reasonable) would be a wiser metric for sorting inputs/feedback (plus CW can specifically focus surveys to different groups to bucket "legacy woes" versus "new user hurdles" and such).
In this regard, it could highly sway (for the better) the "squeaky wheel gets the oil" syndrome that occurs often in here.
Hmm. I easily go way over 40 hours in any given week, and I reckon I disagree.Weighting data is always tricky, because it means adding presumptions to what the data means. And the tricky thing here is, the number of hours put in won't always mean broad usage. For example, up until a new project starting a week or so ago, all I'd done for several months was mix audio. Easily working 70 hours a week, for weeks on end. But in that time, not a single plug in instrument used, no MIDI features used, no step sequencer, no matrix, no staff view... huge areas of the program going untouched. So the last six months of data from me would say MIX FEATURES ARE SUPER SUPER IMPORTANT AND MIDI IS NOT. Except now I'm stuck into a project that requires lots of synth programming, sequencing, virtual instruments all over the place, loop construction, you name it. So that 70 hours a week of data from before doesn't even represent me, and it's going to take me six months to amass enough data for this other pattern of use that does.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
|
BobF
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8124
- Joined: 2003/11/05 18:43:11
- Location: Missouri - USA
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 09:50:05
(permalink)
Brando
John T
Well, they're not saying "we're now going to base all decisions on this new analytics data and disregard all other input".
No they're not - but honestly, how would you assess the rate of implementation of user submitted feature requests to date? IMO, I don't think I could give them a C grade in that respect (but concede they scored a couple of A's for features that were not User originated.) I see analytics as a further step backwards from the vantage point of a user still holding out hope that there will be a concerted effort to implement user submitted improvement ideas. (My 2 cents).
My view exactly. In effect, the user's voice is removed. It's like those surveys with multiple choice questions, but your response really needs qualifications. No more essays to explain WHY you're doing something the way you're doing it. OTOH, if you're going to continue using Sonar, it's pointless (IMO) to turn this off unless you want to have zero input. The Information Age *should* make communication easier and more complete, not provide the ability to build walls. My enthusiasm for Sonar was stoked to the max by the end of '15. If I'm going to be honest, I have to say that that enthusiasm is on the decline. The FR subforum is overflowing with user requests for basic features that are no-brainers for improving Sonar. Add this to Noel's comments implying unbalanced input from the forum and this doesn't look good from my perspective at all. Sorry, but this is my view on it.
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
|
Brando
Max Output Level: -47.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2776
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:47:20
- Location: Canada
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 09:50:51
(permalink)
dwardzala
Brando
I'll opt out. FWIW the feature I most want improved in SPlat is notation, and it's also the feature I almost never use (in Sonar), because, frankly, well... you know (insert dead horse emoticon here). How is someone going to gauge how to improve this, and other less-than-optimally implemented features (like, say, touch), for example from "analytics"? The suggested fix for Video issues in Sonar is commonly "Get Vegas". As a result, analytics might suggest that video in Sonar is rarely used, when in fact it's implemented state has caused users to move on to use something else, either in conjunction with, or instead of, Sonar. Step Sequencer? ("Use FL Studio (Reason/Geist)") Substitute your own example of a feature you don't use much but, which, if it was better implemented, you would use a lot.
In my estimation analytics will tend to drive improvements on features that are already well implemented and used (and while I agree that this should result in an improved focus on workflow of the most commonly used features - I am afraid the result will be more "Add Track" buttons), and away from user Feature Requests.
It sure feels that the feature requests users have been submitting/posting/waiting for have been a waste of time. I am frankly disappointed in the implementation rate of user feature requests - as I see it emphasis on "analytics" is going to further escalate the slide.
Sorry but the whole thing seems like a(nother) gimmick to me.
I know - just shut up and turn it off. Will do.
Actually Brando's point is why you can't just skew the data toward "power users." The new users won't know about the ineffectiveness of [insert your feature here] and will try to use it. The analytics collected from them will show the workstream they are trying to use and potentially result in improvement to those features.
I'm not suggesting any such thing with all due respect. Please don't paraphrase - my words are what they are. To clarify: I (personally) just don't want analytics (my own opinion only) to become a new "feature" that becomes a preoccupation and consumes person-hours of development time. CCC and the Start Page are two such features that weren't even part of the program a year ago, and have seen numerous fixes, changes, criticisms. There may have been a small minority of users who requested something like a start page - if so, great - they got what they hoped for(?). I have my own list of things I wish got more attention but am not presuming that my list is the same as everyone else's. Users are users, new or "power". I have voted on several Feature Requests - of different types from a range of folks, including new users. It seems to me that not one of the most popular has (as of yet?) been implemented- I honestly don't know if any in their submitted form have been(?) maybe Start Page in one form or another. What concerns me most about this roll out is that it is another "bolt-on" that (IMO) does nothing to address core functionality. (I said nothing about new versus power users.) I simply feel analytics will be ineffective at illustrating how a range of users WOULD use certain features in Sonar if those features worked properly. This will inevitably lead (IMO) to tweaks to those features that see the greatest use by all users ( while this seems great and even democratic, my concern is that this will lead to "features" like the Add Track button - as an example of a "better" way to do something which I, at least, have never had a problem with). FWIW I am anything but a power user. Cake can prove me wrong in my opinion by actively rolling out feature requests and resolving issues identified in the Problem Reports. (Cue posts about 2015 rollout of features, fixes etc, none of which I am debating or even disagreeing with - I renewed my SPlat membership for a year). I understand that some/many/most(?) users may want analytics, and may want tweaks to commonly used functions. I am simply stating an opinion that relates to my use of Sonar -
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
|
dwardzala
Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1470
- Joined: 2008/05/26 19:18:33
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 10:10:45
(permalink)
Brando, sorry if you interpreted my post as paraphrasing your words. Someone earlier in the thread expressed an opinion that power user data should be weighted more heavily. I was just pointing out that your (good) point about power users not using poorly implemented features is a reason not to weight power user data over new user data.
DaveMain Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller Win10 x64 Home Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d) Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD) M-Box Mini v. 2 Win 10 x64 Home Sonar 2016.10 Platinum Check out my original music: https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
|
ampfixer
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5508
- Joined: 2010/12/12 20:11:50
- Location: Ontario
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 10:13:34
(permalink)
If the analytics are going to guide development then that's cool. But how do analytics help Cakewalk identify when I can't find a feature I want or I'm confused as to the order of operations for getting something done? I'll contribute, but they won't learn anything about my frustration or inability to do something in Sonar. They will only learn about what I'm able to do now. Doesn't seem so useful.
Will analytics tell Cakaewalk I want the skins feature or the new mastering plugs a lot more than feedback portals and analytics?
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
|
John T
Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6783
- Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 10:18:45
(permalink)
No, but other ways of communicating that are not being stopped.
I dunno, are people looking at the title of the thread and seeing "CAKEWALK TO CUT OUT USERS' TONGUES THIS SPRING"?
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
|
ampfixer
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5508
- Joined: 2010/12/12 20:11:50
- Location: Ontario
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 10:43:37
(permalink)
My point is that Cakewalk will only know what I can do. They wont learn that I can't figure out how to do something. They won't learn that a process is confusing me or that I don't use a feature because I don't understand it. The analytics will just tell them that I never use take lanes, but not WHY I never use take lanes.
I don't think anyone is trying to remove the voice of the customer.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
|
stevec
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 11546
- Joined: 2003/11/04 15:05:54
- Location: Parkesburg, PA
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 10:52:10
(permalink)
ampfixer
...I don't think anyone is trying to remove the voice of the customer.
That is one key point I've picked up from this thread - these analytics are an addition to existing means of collecting user data, not a substitution. If can they provide something that the other means cannot, more power to them.
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
|
jatoth
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
- Total Posts : 363
- Joined: 2009/08/12 06:31:35
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 10:54:06
(permalink)
Just a quick antidote.
I've been developing/writing code for 35 years. The single most effective thing I have ever done to improve our software, was to have the development team answer technical support calls. They learned first hand from the actual user's mouths what was confusing, buggy, cumbersome, annoying, etc. Intimately knowing the code behind the user's issues made for very effective updates. We were able to reduce our tech support calls by over 95%. Most of our current user base has been with us since the early 90's. Why? They tell us "The software just works!"
John X3e Producer, Sonar Platinum, Sweetwater CreationStation i5 3.1gHz, 12 GB RAM, 500GB SSD OS drive, 1TB SSD audio drive, 1TB archive/misc drive, dual 22" monitors, Windows 7x64, SaffirePro40 (firewire), MOTU MIDI Express XT, Behringer BCF2000, dbx 586, Samson Servo 120a, Yamaha HS80M, Auratone 5c Cubes, Sennheiser HD650, Sony MDR 7509HD, Sony MDR 7506, Kurzweil K2500XS, Roland XP-30, Proteus 2000.
|
dwardzala
Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1470
- Joined: 2008/05/26 19:18:33
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 10:55:16
(permalink)
ampfixer
My point is that Cakewalk will only know what I can do. They wont learn that I can't figure out how to do something. They won't learn that a process is confusing me or that I don't use a feature because I don't understand it. The analytics will just tell them that I never use take lanes, but not WHY I never use take lanes.
I don't think anyone is trying to remove the voice of the customer.
So the logical next step would be to query the customers on why a feature isn't being used. They did a survey last year on Sonar usage. The analytics could provide data to help them generate even more meaningful questions.
DaveMain Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller Win10 x64 Home Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d) Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD) M-Box Mini v. 2 Win 10 x64 Home Sonar 2016.10 Platinum Check out my original music: https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
|
Paul P
Max Output Level: -48.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2685
- Joined: 2012/12/08 17:15:47
- Location: Montreal
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 10:56:31
(permalink)
irvin
All we can do as users is decide if the trend is one we benefit from and then act accordingly.
Unfortunately, the trend is spreading to encompass our entire lives. Other daws, plugins, etc. can't be far behind. Makes me want to retreat offline, but I'd probably miss the anxiety.
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
|
Paul P
Max Output Level: -48.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2685
- Joined: 2012/12/08 17:15:47
- Location: Montreal
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 11:08:18
(permalink)
John T
Weighting data is always tricky, because it means adding presumptions to what the data means.
But Cakewalk will be weighting the questions it asks. They can't get inside our heads, and they are not asking us for our opinions, so they'll have to make presumptions on what to track and that will certainly affect the data. On what will these presumptions be based ?
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
|
Andrew Rossa
Max Output Level: -56 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1910
- Joined: 2006/04/14 13:33:18
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 11:16:32
(permalink)
stevec
ampfixer
...I don't think anyone is trying to remove the voice of the customer.
That is one key point I've picked up from this thread - these analytics are an addition to existing means of collecting user data, not a substitution. If can they provide something that the other means cannot, more power to them.
Exactly. Right now, some of the shortfalls that people point out will still exist regardless if we put in Analytics or not. The reality is you can never understand every users experience in a way that is measurable and actionable. One user may rely on MIDI more and their perspective will be skewed. Another might only be mixing so they have a different point of view. What analytics does provide, is a very direct way to measure many users and understand how they use the product. This is not very different than say Google Analytics, which is used by many many companies to measure the effectiveness of their website. They can track how many visits, what pages are popular, where people exit the site, etc. You can't tell a company that knowing this data isn't a benefit. What if your traffic all of a sudden drops? You might want to investigate. Will it be able to tell, per-user, what their particular experience was on the site? Maybe they visited the site and found it hard to understand. You wouldn't get that data. But in general, I think having data and understanding how people use your app is very smart and is good for the developer and the customer. And as you said, it's not a substitute for other mediums. The fact that we are taking to our forums to share this news and replying to customers shows we still value other feedback mediums.
|
John T
Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6783
- Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 11:17:53
(permalink)
Paul P
John T
Weighting data is always tricky, because it means adding presumptions to what the data means.
But Cakewalk will be weighting the questions it asks. They can't get inside our heads, and they are not asking us for our opinions, so they'll have to make presumptions on what to track and that will certainly affect the data. On what will these presumptions be based ?
Undoubtedly something terrible that will turn everything into the worst possible imaginable version of itself as quickly as possible.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
|
azslow3
Max Output Level: -42.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3297
- Joined: 2012/06/22 19:27:51
- Location: Germany
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 11:38:15
(permalink)
Nothing against sending something to Cakewalk, but... - all written by Cakewalk network related operations so far are close to the state "more or less work after half an year improvements" (CCC, Start Page). I do not believe in "this one will work seamless and correct from the beginning", sorry.
- so far, Cakewalk has not acknowledge/refused/commented on some carefully constructed bug reports submitted quite long time ago. No time? Ok... But sufficient time for "Big Data Analysis"?
- Sonar aged core is already suffering from the new interface, almost all more or less modern additions have at least one-two glitches / not existing functions / "blast from the past" exposures (I mean folders, instrument tracks, pro-channel and its modules, take lanes, MIDI, etc.). I worry that yet another bindings to core functions for analytics collection can make the situation even worse.
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
|
stevec
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 11546
- Joined: 2003/11/04 15:05:54
- Location: Parkesburg, PA
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 11:44:03
(permalink)
I do wonder what it would be like to do analytics for the first time... I expect it will take some time before patterns start to emerge.
I certainly plan to participate so CW has my workflows in their database 'cause they're important to me. If what I do is essentially the same as a large number of other users, that's fine, it's obviously an important workflow. If what I do has some uniqueness to it, good, awareness of alternate workflows. And if it helps to improve things in any way, shape or form... great!
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
|
vanceen
Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
- Total Posts : 814
- Joined: 2003/11/08 08:55:56
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 13:02:12
(permalink)
backwoods
is this like a method for collecting efficiency metrics or something? i thought it might be a metering suite before i started reading. what will it be sending? where the mouse cursor is at, at all times? keystrokes per hour?
I thought of that. Or I that it might be a tool for reading crash dump files. But anyway, I'll probably leave it on.
SONAR Platinum Windows 10 ASUS X99E WE Core i7 5960X 32 GB Corsair DDR4 2133 C13 Fireface UFX USB driver 1.098 GeForce GTX 950
|
jpetersen
Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1499
- Joined: 2015/07/11 20:22:53
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 16:41:12
(permalink)
Please, please, just one request:
Make it clear from which version this will be included in.
|
jpetersen
Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1499
- Joined: 2015/07/11 20:22:53
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 16:46:43
(permalink)
azslow3
- all written by Cakewalk network related operations so far are close to the state "more or less work after half an year improvements" (CCC, Start Page). I do not believe in "this one will work seamless and correct from the beginning", sorry.
- so far, Cakewalk has not acknowledge/refused/commented on some carefully constructed bug reports submitted quite long time ago. No time? Ok... But sufficient time for "Big Data Analysis"?
- Sonar aged core is already suffering from the new interface, almost all more or less modern additions have at least one-two glitches / not existing functions / "blast from the past" exposures (I mean folders, instrument tracks, pro-channel and its modules, take lanes, MIDI, etc.). I worry that yet another bindings to core functions for analytics collection can make the situation even worse.
I'd be surprised if the Bakers dropped everything to build this. Probably bought in from a 3rd party. That's how I'd do it. If the analytics can reveal what features the wider usership actually uses, the Bakers will be able to bypass the bug reports (posted by a limited usership) and focus on those bugs that really stand in the average user's way.
|
FanCake 
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 58
- Joined: 2016/02/25 16:30:49
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 16:52:01
(permalink)
jpetersen
Please, please, just one request:
Make it clear from which version this will be included in.
Don't you read the ezines?
|
jpetersen
Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1499
- Joined: 2015/07/11 20:22:53
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 16:53:14
(permalink)
Last time I was too excited.
|
azslow3
Max Output Level: -42.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3297
- Joined: 2012/06/22 19:27:51
- Location: Germany
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 16:56:39
(permalink)
jpetersen
If the analytics can reveal what features the wider usership actually uses, the Bakers will be able to bypass the bug reports (posted by a limited usership) and focus on those bugs that really stand in the average user's way.
That is not the plan  (before in this thread) Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
tenfoot
Another thought is that there is a problem report section of your forum stacked with posts from users who took the time to analyse and report bugs. That might be a good place to start if you are looking for relevent feedback that will vastly improve Sonar!
That's a completely different kind of data and we have a bug tracking system dedicated to that already. Analytics doesn't collect info about bugs (even thought it could as a subset), rather it collects other data that gives us direct insight into how users use the software. Other than by manually interviewing and observing thousands of users around the world there is absolutely no way for us to learn this.
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
|
FanCake
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 58
- Joined: 2016/02/25 16:30:49
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 16:58:53
(permalink)
jpetersen
Please, please, just one request:
Make it clear from which version this will be included in.
FanCake
Don't you read the ezines?
jpetersen
Last time I was too excited.
Pray for a really dull release.
|
jpetersen
Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1499
- Joined: 2015/07/11 20:22:53
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 17:04:00
(permalink)
Duller than Newburyport? :)
Normally I read about the new features whilst trying them at the same time.
So your warning is well taken. In future: Read first, then install.
|
jpetersen
Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1499
- Joined: 2015/07/11 20:22:53
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 17:08:24
(permalink)
azslow3
jpetersen
If the analytics can reveal what features the wider usership actually uses, the Bakers will be able to bypass the bug reports (posted by a limited usership) and focus on those bugs that really stand in the average user's way.
That is not the plan
(before in this thread)
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
tenfoot
Another thought is that there is a problem report section of your forum stacked with posts from users who took the time to analyse and report bugs. That might be a good place to start if you are looking for relevent feedback that will vastly improve Sonar!
That's a completely different kind of data and we have a bug tracking system dedicated to that already. Analytics doesn't collect info about bugs (even thought it could as a subset), rather it collects other data that gives us direct insight into how users use the software. Other than by manually interviewing and observing thousands of users around the world there is absolutely no way for us to learn this.
Oh. H'm. That's kinda weird.
|
FanCake
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 58
- Joined: 2016/02/25 16:30:49
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 17:18:48
(permalink)
|
jpetersen
Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1499
- Joined: 2015/07/11 20:22:53
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 17:43:56
(permalink)
OK, I have read this thread from the start and I have an inkling what this is about. I hope at least some of my bugs get fixed before this is released, because the version before shall be the last one I install. Edit: OK, Noel says Off means off. No data logged at all. Good enough for me.
post edited by jpetersen - 2016/03/05 06:21:00
|
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Cakewalk Staff
- Total Posts : 6475
- Joined: 2003/11/03 17:22:50
- Location: Boston, MA, USA
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 17:44:04
(permalink)
No we aren't using Microsoft's analytics support although it is cool.
We have our own crossplatform analytics SDK that was developed in-house and already tested with another product.
Its very lightweight, simple and geared towards what we're trying to do better.
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 18:01:53
(permalink)
I am not ignoring this thread. Rough day. Rough night.
And Vastman.... you know nothing.
I was not "camping" this thread. Look at the time stamps.
I was preparing, eating and clearing my dinner as I posted here last night.
I NEEDED to get to bed for the doctor crap I was talking about. I am sorry but sometimes the risk of vital organs exploding takes precedence over my "duties" here.
I am now covered in damned wires and spent the morning getting poked and prodded by strangers if that makes you feel any better.
I'll try to post a proper commentary on this maybe tomorrow to alleviate your concern that somehow I did all that just to... IDK... troll? After all these years?
Ugh.
Edit: And I just realized the possible poetic irony of this. Beepster analytics anyone? lulz
FML
|
M@
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 221
- Joined: 2015/01/07 17:58:56
- Location: Innsbruck, Austria
- Status: offline
Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 18:25:37
(permalink)
Well;
In my opinion for the collected data to have even the slightest bit of meaning:
- CW needs to know exactly what percentage of all Sonar users have (stayed) opted in.
- They will need to know if at any given time a 'series of data' is collected if the user's actions lead to succes or to failure (from the users point of view!) .... or if certain (series of) actions were due to other actions taken before with succes or failure.
- They would need to know what type of customer the user is.
Seems to me that this is the wrong approach for collecting data with the purpose of analysing and improving user experiences.
!
I believe a better approach would be to have a daily/weekly/monthly theme or question which would be presented to the users that opted-in to helping. (On the new start-screen for example)
Then the users that really do participate will give feedback to that specific question only....and as soon as the user submits his response to the question/theme the collected data for that session (mouse-travel, amount of clicks, menu's opened & closed, etc. or whatever data CW is interested in) will be submitted together with the user's experience described in words.
THAT will give CW real focused insight.
The daily question could be simple or complicated.....doesn't matter. It should be specific though.
(i.e. are the buttons for function XYZ too small for your touchscreen? User answer yes: Data logged also shows users multiple times clicking next to function XYZ by 5 pixels so they know how much larger the buttons must be.)
The people opting in do not need to respond each and every day/week/month.....but in this scenario even rewards for the amount of feedback given makes sense......people spend time actively contributing to answering the questions CW are actually really after.......not just 'dead' data being logged.
Even though this approach sounds similar to what people are already actively contributing in the features&requests and bug-reports forum this is not the same....there users are expressing their own thoughts; not answering CW's questions.
Also CW could then in certain cases contact certain users directly for additional feedback. I guess that's what the new feedback feature will be about?!
Maybe I'm thinking too simple or too complicated and this might not work at all.......but right now that's just:
my 2cents.
Tracking: Sonar Platinum (X3 Producer, X2 studio, X1 expanded, 8.3) (64bit)System: Win10 Pro (64bit), Asus P8Z77 V Le Plus, I7-3770k, 16GB Ram, SSD System drive, Raid1 Recording & Backup drive, VS-700 Set, TC Konnekt 48Instruments: Roland Juno Stage, Kawai CA5, Washburn X50Pro, Blackstar-One100, Merida,...
|