Anderton
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 19:20:21
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Beepster
I am now covered in damned wires and spent the morning getting poked and prodded by strangers if that makes you feel any better.
Alien abductions are always tough. Just don't mention the word "analytic probe," if you get my drift.
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Beepster
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 19:56:08
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Fortunately I don't THINK I need another one of those because I watch my diet but I'm probably getting to the age where I should be getting the ole UFIA sans roses nor lobster dinner attached.
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dwardzala
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 20:52:51
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M@
Well;
In my opinion for the collected data to have even the slightest bit of meaning:
- CW needs to know exactly what percentage of all Sonar users have (stayed) opted in.
- They will need to know if at any given time a 'series of data' is collected if the user's actions lead to succes or to failure (from the users point of view!) .... or if certain (series of) actions were due to other actions taken before with succes or failure.
- They would need to know what type of customer the user is.
Seems to me that this is the wrong approach for collecting data with the purpose of analysing and improving user experiences.
!
I believe a better approach would be to have a daily/weekly/monthly theme or question which would be presented to the users that opted-in to helping. (On the new start-screen for example)
Then the users that really do participate will give feedback to that specific question only....and as soon as the user submits his response to the question/theme the collected data for that session (mouse-travel, amount of clicks, menu's opened & closed, etc. or whatever data CW is interested in) will be submitted together with the user's experience described in words.
THAT will give CW real focused insight.
The daily question could be simple or complicated.....doesn't matter. It should be specific though.
(i.e. are the buttons for function XYZ too small for your touchscreen? User answer yes: Data logged also shows users multiple times clicking next to function XYZ by 5 pixels so they know how much larger the buttons must be.)
The people opting in do not need to respond each and every day/week/month.....but in this scenario even rewards for the amount of feedback given makes sense......people spend time actively contributing to answering the questions CW are actually really after.......not just 'dead' data being logged.
Even though this approach sounds similar to what people are already actively contributing in the features&requests and bug-reports forum this is not the same....there users are expressing their own thoughts; not answering CW's questions.
Also CW could then in certain cases contact certain users directly for additional feedback. I guess that's what the new feedback feature will be about?!
Maybe I'm thinking too simple or too complicated and this might not work at all.......but right now that's just:
my 2cents.
Unfortunately, this is probably going to be a bit more intrusive into the workflow of a Sonar user than most will like. My opinion (that should be obvious) is these type of things "get in the way." A lot websites want to verify some bit of information or ask you go to paperless - things that I really want to do, but because I have logged into them with a specific purpose in mind, I click the remind me later button (as opposed to the no thanks or ok, let's do it buttons.) And usually I never actually do it because they always remind as I am logging in and on a mission. When I fire up Sonar, its usually because I have a musical idea floating around my head and need to get it down on disk, or I have an idea on how to improve the mix I was working on last night and I don't want to be distracted by "the question of the day." I will ignore it and never come back to it. I would much rather things happen behind the scenes and email contact be made to get further information.
DaveMain Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller Win10 x64 Home Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d) Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD) M-Box Mini v. 2 Win 10 x64 Home Sonar 2016.10 Platinum Check out my original music: https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
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Snehankur
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 21:02:39
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irvin
In all fairness, Cakewalk is at a crossroads: power users are a minority of their clientele (you can tell from the postings on this forum) and the super-saturated DAW market makes it almost impossible to pry users from the competition. The most promising market is casual users and total beginners.
What is Cakewalk supposed to do? Cater to the minority? Lose potential customers?
I also have felt the same way since last couple of months. Artists comes in the top 10 list - not Platinum. Upgrades are not based on the feature request - may be the commitments for monthly upgrade now becoming stressful for the bakers creativity - we cant blame them. I feel they need to look into list of the FR for last 1 year. Secondly have a new team made for creating video tutorials - to upgrade the new comers to power users. Giveaway scaled down version with most of the hardware [midi controllers + audio interfaces], the new comers coming in the field of DAW purchases these two in the beginning. Anderton
Cakewalk has made it clear that using analytics doesn't obviate their other methods of canvassing users. But perhaps more importantly, power users are the ones who push the system harder, and find bugs that new users would never find because they're just doing the basics. I think analytics would make it much easier to fix the kinds of bugs that vex power users, especially because the power users may not have the time to really investigate a bug in order to submit steps to reproduce...but if analytics does that for you, then that would be tremendously helpful for troubleshooting.
Analytic to be kept for power users [self declaration] to understand and troubleshooting only. Cakewalk from time to time can release a questionnaire to get to understand what the features mean to the user-base : knowledge about a feature, usefulness of the feature, complicacy if faced, using or not using - reason etc etc. Serious users will certainly give the feed back. Please don't put feature just for making the list bigger: that will damage more - Insert track, the Painter tool in PRV, increasing the row height etc. Cakewalk users are considerate enough and feel for the bakers as well, some users are from the field of developments - they know what pressure comes with the deadlines. Hope Cakewalk will rethink - This is my personal view. Regards Snehankur
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Paul P
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 21:37:52
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Snehankur
Secondly have a new team made for creating video tutorials - to upgrade the new comers to power users.
From what I've seen of the younger generations, they couldn't sit still long enough to see through a video. They want to do things right now. They want an app to be simple and obvious. You could probably throw away 80% of what Sonar can do and they'd never notice. To be fair, I have all videos except the Platinum newest features one and still haven't gotten around to watching most of them myself. Most of what I've learned is by performing in an always open project whatever members are currently discussing in these forums. It's like being in school. But the youngsters don't have time to do that either.
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
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Anderton
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 21:46:06
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Paul P
Snehankur
Secondly have a new team made for creating video tutorials - to upgrade the new comers to power users.
From what I've seen of the younger generations, they couldn't sit still long enough to see through a video.
They want to do things right now. They want an app to be simple and obvious. You could probably throw away 80% of what Sonar can do and they'd never notice.
To be fair, I have all videos except the Platinum newest features one and still haven't gotten around to watching most of them myself. Most of what I've learned is by performing in an always open project whatever members are currently discussing in these forums. It's like being in school. But the youngsters don't have time to do that either.
I'm sure you said something interesting, but I didn't have time to read your post   I've been asked to do videos by more than just Cakewalk, but the reality is that if a video is over 2 minutes, most people will drop off.
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mudgel
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 22:34:15
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The tin foil hat brigade is really spoiling participation in any meaningful discussion in this forum.
Please have your doctors increase your anti psychotic medications to therapeutic levels. Surely you can't be leading a happy life with this degree of paranoia. I say this with real concern for your mental health.
I'm going to have a self imposed holiday from too much internet activity in general and this forum specifically.
See you all occasionally.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Paul P
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 22:54:24
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Anderton
I've been asked to do videos by more than just Cakewalk, but the reality is that if a video is over 2 minutes, most people will drop off.
Now there's an idea. In Sonar, instead of F1 bringing up contextual help text, have it bring up a 1-2 minute video on the subject at hand. I'd put that to good use.
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
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Snehankur
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 22:55:07
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Right now I have just finished a video Sound Design Tutorial: Layering Drums - Native Instruments Battery 4 w/ Evan Sutton now noticed the duration is 11:19 
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Snehankur
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 22:59:17
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Anderton
I've been asked to do videos by more than just Cakewalk, but the reality is that if a video is over 2 minutes, most people will drop off.
Why you? Cakewalk should preserve you for the Pro. There can be a secondary team - can be from this forum also. There are so many knowledgeable users. Regards Snehankur
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sharke
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/04 23:32:29
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Snehankur
Right now I have just finished a video
Sound Design Tutorial: Layering Drums - Native Instruments Battery 4 w/ Evan Sutton
now noticed the duration is 11:19
I've watched a few of Evan Sutton's videos on Lynda.com, he has an excellent style of presentation and gets things across very clearly. His Battery 4 course is very good, as is his "tips on how to get projects finished" or whatever it's called. Very EDM oriented of course but loads of great general tips in there. I'm watching his Absynth course now. I get access to all of the Lynda videos free with my NYC library card and have been very impressed with their range of audio tutorials.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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jpetersen
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/05 05:24:03
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Tom Riggs
The main reason I do not use the start screen is that it slows me down when starting.
I really like the Start Screen but because takes a different amount of time to open each time I keep it off. Will Analytics know this?
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jpetersen
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/05 05:29:46
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
One thing to look at is that the definition of DAW's is changing and we need to cater to all classes of users who use the program completely differently from you and me. Producers and mix engineers are a relatively small segment of those who use music software. If we want to stay relevant we need to satisfy a wide set of users.
Noel, are you in a position to expand on this? I can think of Video and Game producers. Composers also post here. Edit: Oh, and some people have said they use it live. So - Backing track fly-ins to live shows? Maybe DJs?
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irvin 
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/05 06:06:24
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jpetersen
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
One thing to look at is that the definition of DAW's is changing and we need to cater to all classes of users who use the program completely differently from you and me. Producers and mix engineers are a relatively small segment of those who use music software. If we want to stay relevant we need to satisfy a wide set of users.
Noel, are you in a position to expand on this?
Read his lips: producers and sound engineers are a small segment of Sonar's user base. So, what's the majority? The casual users and total beginners. They are the ones Sonar is catering to: have you seen the "Add Track" and "LANDR" 'features' in the latest upgrade? This should be a wake-up call for those who expect Sonar to be competitive with mainstream DAWs like ProTools, Studio One, Logic, Reaper, etc. - the right path for Cakewalk (for financial reasons: LANDR, analytics, etc. are marketing decisions meant to increase revenue) is to make Sonar into the simplest, most powerful, 'beginner-friendliest' software in the entry-level DAW market. It's a huge gamble that will likely fail because most casual users won't pay for the software they use, while more experienced users will just move on to more robust platforms that cater to their professional needs. If dumbed-down recording software had any future, Magix Music Maker would be selling like hotcakes... In any case, a more interesting topic - to me at least - would be Cakewalk's full disclosure of EXACTLY what data is being gathered. Does it go beyond program usage? Does it go beyond Sonar? And, no, I'm not worried on a personal level: Sonar has never been my main DAW. Odds are I will just completely uninstall once the current project that required I use it is over. Sonar - to me - is a pretty decent DAW being butchered by some very disturbing trends...
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John T
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/05 06:18:36
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irvin
Sonar - to me - is a pretty decent DAW being butchered by some very disturbing trends...
In what ways do you think it has got worse?
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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pwalpwal
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/05 06:49:47
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John T
irvin
Sonar - to me - is a pretty decent DAW being butchered by some very disturbing trends...
In what ways do you think it has got worse?
for me, it's really got worse with the whole online authentication/ccc... historically, one of sonar's selling points used to be the simple registration/authorisation process, then we got the ilok-requiring softube prochannel bits, now the ccc... smacks of desperation to me - how long have gibson given anderton to "make a go" of this? what KPIs are they looking at? the blustering defensiveness in the forums is a sure sign of such behind the scenes activity.. regarding the analytics generally, this stuff is usually for a company to work out how to best monetise something (in this case sonar), not necessarily to identify new areas of feature development, and as has been stated, it's not for identifying bugs... i expect to see more "dlc", loops and stuff... i'd also be interested to know how the steam sales compare to non-steam, as we know artist is the biggest seller version-wise... i'm sure cakewalk can make more money selling to the new-user/one-button crowd, rather than the pros, and i think things like style dials show this effort in action
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jpetersen
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/05 07:53:42
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irvin
jpetersen
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
One thing to look at is that the definition of DAW's is changing and we need to cater to all classes of users who use the program completely differently from you and me. Producers and mix engineers are a relatively small segment of those who use music software. If we want to stay relevant we need to satisfy a wide set of users.
Noel, are you in a position to expand on this?
Read his lips: producers and sound engineers are a small segment of Sonar's user base. So, what's the majority? The casual users and total beginners. They are the ones Sonar is catering to:
My question was honestly intended. But if it's to do with forward-looking strategy, I can understand the Bakers' reticence. Making Sonar accessible to beginners is not a bad thing. I feel like a beginner every time I try something new (thanks to Craig's Tips) irvin
This should be a wake-up call for those who expect Sonar to be competitive with mainstream DAWs like ProTools, Studio One, Logic, Reaper, etc. - the right path for Cakewalk
...
If dumbed-down recording software had any future, Magix Music Maker would be selling like hotcakes...
When I explain what I do, many times I get asked "Oh, do you use Magix?" Those with studio experience assume ProTools or Steinberg. Logic is also known. But Cakewalk Sonar? Blank expressions. We can argue about how best to change this, but basically, it's not good for our future with Sonar. irvin
And, no, I'm not worried on a personal level: Sonar has never been my main DAW. Ah. OK.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/05 08:56:10
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irvin
Read his lips: producers and sound engineers are a small segment of Sonar's user base. So, what's the majority? The casual users and total beginners. They are the ones Sonar is catering to: have you seen the "Add Track" and "LANDR" 'features' in the latest upgrade?
This should be a wake-up call for those who expect Sonar to be competitive with mainstream DAWs like ProTools, Studio One, Logic, Reaper, etc. - the right path for Cakewalk (for financial reasons: LANDR, analytics, etc. are marketing decisions meant to increase revenue) is to make Sonar into the simplest, most powerful, 'beginner-friendliest' software in the entry-level DAW market.
It's a huge gamble that will likely fail because most casual users won't pay for the software they use, while more experienced users will just move on to more robust platforms that cater to their professional needs.
If dumbed-down recording software had any future, Magix Music Maker would be selling like hotcakes...
In any case, a more interesting topic - to me at least - would be Cakewalk's full disclosure of EXACTLY what data is being gathered. Does it go beyond program usage? Does it go beyond Sonar?
And, no, I'm not worried on a personal level: Sonar has never been my main DAW. Odds are I will just completely uninstall once the current project that required I use it is over. Sonar - to me - is a pretty decent DAW being butchered by some very disturbing trends...
That's not exactly what I meant. I didn't mean that "beginner" users were the majority, rather that the majority are users who are producing their own music - i.e singer songwriters, solo artists and bands who like to record and produce their own music. Fewer musicians are going to recording studios these days because of the costs and the fact that its very hard for most to make a profit on sales of CD's. So increasing numbers of people are using digital media and producing the music themselves. These people are hardly beginners - they can be very accomplished musicians and even have a fair amount of DAW experience though they may not have more traditional audio engineering skills. They are a different class of user and all DAW's that want to stay relevant have to cater to this audience. We have several users who fit this category even on our forums. I think the word pro gets associated very narrowly these days with only recording engineers who make a living producing others. Those are the users who are in the minority not the ones who use music software as a tool to produce their own music. We are NOT dumbing down the software by catering to them at all but rather exposing functionality that enhances their workflow. Our plan is certainly NOT to dumb down the software.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/05 09:11:41
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pwalpwal
for me, it's really got worse with the whole online authentication/ccc... historically, one of sonar's selling points used to be the simple registration/authorisation process, then we got the ilok-requiring softube prochannel bits, now the ccc... smacks of desperation to me - how long have gibson given anderton to "make a go" of this? what KPIs are they looking at? the blustering defensiveness in the forums is a sure sign of such behind the scenes activity..
regarding the analytics generally, this stuff is usually for a company to work out how to best monetise something (in this case sonar), not necessarily to identify new areas of feature development, and as has been stated, it's not for identifying bugs... i expect to see more "dlc", loops and stuff... i'd also be interested to know how the steam sales compare to non-steam, as we know artist is the biggest seller version-wise... i'm sure cakewalk can make more money selling to the new-user/one-button crowd, rather than the pros, and i think things like style dials show this effort in action
We moved to this model to support frequent updates and to allow for a scaleable business model. If you are against any model that has any authentication or any online activity you are going to be disappointed with any modern software developed today, not just SONAR. You see modern software development as desperation? :) And I don't see how us trying to explain our strategy is defensive. Would you prefer that we didn't discuss it at all like we are doing here? Also analytics is not just for market research its also actively used for application development. Look at how Microsoft uses analytics in this article that someone posted which is very developer centric.
post edited by Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] - 2016/03/05 09:34:32
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/05 09:18:13
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jpetersen
My question was honestly intended. But if it's to do with forward-looking strategy, I can understand the Bakers' reticence.
Making Sonar accessible to beginners is not a bad thing. I feel like a beginner every time I try something new Its a forward looking strategy but its absolutely NOT for beginners. The term beginner gets tossed around in an almost derogatory way here. Modern software should be designed to adapt to a wide array of workflows whether it be a pro engineer or someone who just wants to create some music but who doesn't have engineering chops. One is certainly not a beginner if they aren't an engineer. There are different kinds of users and we need to be careful to support them all.
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jpetersen
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/05 09:19:52
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Thanks, that is way more straight-forward an explanation than the sinister ones I'd entertained. :) I got a free entry-level DAW with my PreSonus interface which prompted me to get the full licenced version two months ago. I also got an entry-level (but still very capable) Sonar version with my Roland/Edirol interfaces back when. Does this strategy work? Is there not some connection with Tascam available to the Bakers to take advantage of?
post edited by jpetersen - 2016/03/05 09:44:37
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John T
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/05 09:21:39
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pwalpwal
John T
irvin
Sonar - to me - is a pretty decent DAW being butchered by some very disturbing trends...
In what ways do you think it has got worse?
for me, it's really got worse with the whole online authentication/ccc... historically, one of sonar's selling points used to be the simple registration/authorisation process, then we got the ilok-requiring softube prochannel bits, now the ccc...
Well, it's Softube that require iLok, not Cakewalk, and the CCC is optional.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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Anderton
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/05 09:28:14
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pwalpwal
for me, it's really got worse with the whole online authentication/ccc... historically, one of sonar's selling points used to be the simple registration/authorisation process, then we got the ilok-requiring softube prochannel bits, now the ccc... smacks of desperation to me - how long have gibson given anderton to "make a go" of this? what KPIs are they looking at? the blustering defensiveness in the forums is a sure sign of such behind the scenes activity.. The CCC was brought in concurrently with the monthly updates because they were download-based. Also customers had asked, in this forum, for the ability to pay monthly. That has to be done online as well. iLok is how Softube protected their software. If you have a problem with that, take it up with Softube. As far as Gibson goes, perhaps the reason for what you consider to be "blustering defensiveness" (and I consider "extreme frustration in the face of trying to reason people out of positions they didn't use reason to attain"), one more time: I have been a SONAR user since 2000, when I switched from two other programs. It has continued to fit my needs better than anything else, which is why I keep using it. I also use Ableton Live for live performance and Studio One for album assembly, because my goal is to use the right tool for the right job. DAWs and computer platforms are not a religion to me. They are appliances. Cakewalk is not my job. I was contributing to Cakewalk, on many levels, long before Gibson acquired the company. I work across all of Gibson Brands. I do videos for Neat, Cerwin-Vega, KRK, and TASCAM. I've done circuit design for Gibson USA, write content for Gibson.com, am Editorial Director for Harmony Central, etc. Those are a few examples of my "day job." The reality is Cakewalk is more like a hobby that I do on evenings and weekends. I use SONAR extensively and products like the Gibson Bass Collection fall out of that - I needed those bass sounds for my own projects. Why not make them available to everyone? regarding the analytics generally, this stuff is usually for a company to work out how to best monetise something (in this case sonar), not necessarily to identify new areas of feature development Cakewalk has spelled out very clearly how they plan to use analytics. We'll see if they stick to their plan, or deviate into what you speculate they will do. You're entitled to judge my responses as defensive. I consider them as disseminating fact-based information. To each his own.
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jpetersen
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/05 09:33:36
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I found a CA-authored Sonar article in an old SOS-Magazine, dated 2005.
That's before Gibson came along.
Before Roland even.
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Anderton
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/05 09:35:45
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pwalpwali'd also be interested to know how the steam sales compare to non-steam, as we know artist is the biggest seller version-wise... i'm sure cakewalk can make more money selling to the new-user/one-button crowd, rather than the pros, and i think things like style dials show this effort in action What sells the most units doesn't necessarily contribute the most to the company. Lower-priced products will always sell more than higher-priced versions. Toyota will always sell more Toyota than Lexus. This doesn't mean Toyota will cease to develop the Lexus. Platinum's importance cannot be denied. It is the flagship product and the work on Platinum affects Artist. Also, the more people who buy Artist, the more potential there is for upgrades. People don't necessarily stop at Artist; they start there. 'm sure cakewalk can make more money selling to the new-user/one-button crowd, rather than the pros, and i think things like style dials show this effort in action If you wanted to twist it in the other direction, one could just as easily say "I'm sick of SONAR catering just to pros. The new-user/one-button crowd doesn't care about patch points, synth recording, upsampling, synchronizing vocals, ADR and dialog looping, aux tracks, drum replacement, DSD import/export, mix recall, multiple version export, etc. All Cakewalk does is pay lip service to new users with a cheaper version of Platinum, a few Style Dials, and a simpler way to insert tracks. You need to cater to new users instead of those Platinum elitists."
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John T
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/05 09:35:46
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☄ Helpfulby dcumpian 2016/03/07 10:37:07
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
I didn't mean that "beginner" users were the majority, rather that the majority are users who are producing their own music - i.e singer songwriters, solo artists and bands who like to record and produce their own music. Fewer musicians are going to recording studios these days because of the costs and the fact that its very hard for most to make a profit on sales of CD's. So increasing numbers of people are using digital media and producing the music themselves. These people are hardly beginners - they can be very accomplished musicians and even have a fair amount of DAW experience though they may not have more traditional audio engineering skills. They are a different class of user and all DAW's that want to stay relevant have to cater to this audience. We have several users who fit this category even on our forums. I think the word pro gets associated very narrowly these days with only recording engineers who make a living producing others. Those are the users who are in the minority not the ones who use music software as a tool to produce their own music.
Speaking as someone who makes a living producing others, I very much want to see DAWs get easier to use for musicians who self-record. Something that I'm seeing more and more of, is projects that are at least part-recorded by the acts themselves, that come to me to finish off. This will sometimes be just as a mix project, other times more like "we've got half-way and now we need help". Anything that helps those kinds of projects come to me in a better state is most definitely A Good Thing.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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Anderton
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/05 09:40:02
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jpetersen
I found a CA-authored Sonar article in an old SOS-Magazine, dated 2005.
That's before Gibson came along.
Before Roland even.
I started writing the column long before that. I've been a voice in the wilderness for a long time . And as I've said before, whenever Cakewalk used to thank me for my support, they always got the same answer: "Don't kid yourself. If I find something better, I'll switch in a heartbeat...just like I switched to SONAR."
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Anderton
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/05 09:49:34
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irvin
In any case, a more interesting topic - to me at least - would be Cakewalk's full disclosure of EXACTLY what data is being gathered. Does it go beyond program usage? Does it go beyond Sonar?
From the initial post: Will Cakewalk Monitor Other Apps?Absolutely not. We are not interested in other apps you’ve installed. Our analytics apply only to SONAR and how you use our software. We can’t, and will never, monitor your activity outside our app.
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sharke
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/05 10:04:11
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☄ Helpfulby John T 2016/03/05 10:31:32
I think there are a lot of misconceptions and assumptions being bandied about with regards to "amateurs versus pros" on this thread and on others in this forum. A lot of the older members like to make references to the "push button crowd" and I think there is this perception of young kids making EDM by dragging a couple of loops around and calling it a day. Really, this could not be further from the truth. There are young bedroom producers out there who would run rings around many of the old timers among us in terms of audio production, sound design, MIDI programming, use of controllers and automation etc. If you actually follow the scene there are some incredibly intricate productions out there which have utilized very advanced techniques and sound absolutely stunning, even if you don't like the genre. It must be hard, if you're a pro who's spent 30 years tuning his ears in the fields of EQ and compression, to hear 20 year old kids come along and create smooth sounding productions with perfect instrument separation after just 2 or 3 years at it. Part of the reason for this is that with the advent of plugins and DAW's, you have kids who have been able to put in 1000's of hours practice in their bedroom with unlimited "gear" at their disposal as opposed to the older engineers who were limited to whatever time they could get in their studio and whatever limited range of gear they could practice on.
Now granted some of these kids are clamoring for production tools which old farts scoff at. But isn't that just how it's always been? New technology, new production techniques, new genres, the older generation making fun of it. These kids are taking on board all of the audio engineering techniques that you've spent 30 years learning, plus innovating some of their own. Believe me, they want the "pro" features just as much as you....but they want new features as well.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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gbowling
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Re: Cakewalk Analytics Coming To SONAR
2016/03/05 10:16:10
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This is awesome! I'm already working on some scripts to do the things I want improved over and over when I'm not working on a project. Turn on analytics and let the data fly!
Come on guys, figure out how to use lemons to make lemonade!
gabo
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