Grem
I was finding that towards the end of Sonar development, the older, longer, and more complicated a project got, the more weird things went wrong. And went wrong that could not be fixed. No work around. Project was either scrapped, or started over again.

This was absolutely my experience as well, and I too had to scrap and reconstruct numerous projects that had become too problematic.

Noel earlier said that this absolutely wasn't the case and that my problems were caused by plugins, but the weirdness I experienced had nothing to do with plugins. Crashes and hangs weren't the problem (although I certainly have my fair share of those) - it was always stuff to do with Sonar itself. Things like MIDI ending up in places it wasn't supposed to reach, automation acting weirdly (or sometimes disappearing for no reason), editing functions behaving strangely etc. The problem I have with plugins not saving their settings only happens in projects after I've worked on them for some time. Sometimes I will attempt to automate a plugin that I have in a ProChannel FX chain and I'll click on the edit filter to find that the plugins aren't even showing in it. And I also end up with phantom nodes in weird places like 5 minutes after the end of the song, which means "fit project to screen" will include 5 minutes of blank space at the end. And I cannot find these nodes anywhere to delete them. It gets to the point where working on such projects is such a PITA that I can't face them. I have numerous huge projects that I've been fiddling with on and off for years and am nowhere near completing them because I can only stand 10-15 minutes of dealing with the weirdness before I get sick of it.

sharke
And I also end up with phantom nodes in weird places like 5 minutes after the end of the song, which means "fit project to screen" will include 5 minutes of blank space at the end. And I cannot find these nodes anywhere to delete them. 

FWIW I haven't experienced this problem since using Ripple Editing to delete everything past the end of the project.

CakeAlexSHere

michael diemer

For what it's worth, weird things were happening to my Reaper projects, toward the end, just like you had in Sonar. It would kick back to the beginning every time I copied something. Also there were other things, some of which cost me days to fix. 
 
Still, Reaper is a fine program. It may be that these problems only happen with long projects (over 5 minutes), but all my projects are long. I'm working faster now that I'm back in Sonar. Takeaway? All programs have bugs and weirdness. The hit or miss nature of some of them may be due to an unusual workflow, idiosyncratic ways of doing things that the developers did not anticipate. 

^^ These sort of statements are exactly what make Sonar what it is today... the DAW Sonar fans deserve, accepting everything coming to them.

 
Repeat after me: t-r-a-d-e-o-f-f.
 
Intelligent people - and trust me, you are not the only one on the planet - weigh pros and cons, and decide whether the pros outweigh the cons. Some people will accept bugs in a program if that program does exactly what they need in other respects.
 
It would be equally idiotic to say Studio One fans deserve the limitations of Studio One (no upsampling, no mix recall, no DSD import/export, no DX support, no staff view, no ripple editing, no track icons, no MIDI event list, no Quick Grouping, no sysex storage, etc.) because they like its speed.
 

Bye for now.

 
You won't be missed.

Anderton

CakeAlexSHere

michael diemer

For what it's worth, weird things were happening to my Reaper projects, toward the end, just like you had in Sonar. It would kick back to the beginning every time I copied something. Also there were other things, some of which cost me days to fix. 

Still, Reaper is a fine program. It may be that these problems only happen with long projects (over 5 minutes), but all my projects are long. I'm working faster now that I'm back in Sonar. Takeaway? All programs have bugs and weirdness. The hit or miss nature of some of them may be due to an unusual workflow, idiosyncratic ways of doing things that the developers did not anticipate. 

^^ These sort of statements are exactly what make Sonar what it is today... the DAW Sonar fans deserve, accepting everything coming to them.

 
Repeat after me: t-r-a-d-e-o-f-f.
 
Intelligent people - and trust me, you are not the only one on the planet - weigh pros and cons, and decide whether the pros outweigh the cons. Some people will accept bugs in a program if that program does exactly what they need in other respects.
 
It would be equally idiotic to say Studio One fans deserve the limitations of Studio One (no upsampling, no mix recall, no DSD import/export, no DX support, no staff view, no ripple editing, no track icons, no MIDI event list, no Quick Grouping, no sysex storage, etc.) because they like its speed.
 

Bye for now.

 
You won't be missed.

Mr. Anderton, you are absolutely one of the best columnists on this forum. I really enjoy comments like above, respect! You have not only musical savvy, but you also understand a lot of life and people.
 

michael diemer
For what it's worth, weird things were happening to my Reaper projects, toward the end, just like you had in Sonar. It would kick back to the beginning every time I copied something. Also there were other things, some of which cost me days to fix. 

Still, Reaper is a fine program. It may be that these problems only happen with long projects (over 5 minutes), but all my projects are long. I'm working faster now that I'm back in Sonar. Takeaway? All programs have bugs and weirdness. The hit or miss nature of some of them may be due to an unusual workflow, idiosyncratic ways of doing things that the developers did not anticipate. 

CakeAlexSHere
^^ These sort of statements are exactly what make Sonar what it is today... the DAW Sonar fans deserve, accepting everything coming to them.

 

Anderton
Repeat after me: t-r-a-d-e-o-f-f.
 
Intelligent people - and trust me, you are not the only one on the planet - weigh pros and cons, and decide whether the pros outweigh the cons. Some people will accept bugs in a program if that program does exactly what they need in other respects.
 
It would be equally idiotic to say Studio One fans deserve the limitations of Studio One (no upsampling, no mix recall, no DSD import/export, no DX support, no staff view, no ripple editing, no track icons, no MIDI event list, no Quick Grouping, no sysex storage, etc.) because they like its speed.

 
 

Bye for now.
 

 

Anderton
You won't be missed.

 
I'm back as I've just been Andertoned once again.
 
Everybody can clearly see he edited my quote about bugs, and twisted it to compare it with "features" or "speed". He concludes with usual massive generalisation that bugs are acceptable because "trade off". Here's the stuff he edited so he could bring it out of context to make his point.
 

CakeAlexSHere
I have Studio One now and luckly I don't have to worry much about these sort of bugs any more. If they do happen (because as many say over and over again like a parrot in these forums that all software has bugs in a bid to make it acceptable over and over and over again for years and years like repeating passages from religious texts) I have no doubt whatsoever the bugs will be fixed in S1 far faster than when Sonar was in development. Regardless no bugs will be fixed in Sonar now as it's not in development. Bye for now.

 
He will then wait for the fan base to come in and back him up and tell him how great and right he is (as has already happened), and then wait for others to say how terrible the person who is disagreeing with him. Observe none of these sort people will be interested in any topic discussion... Just Craig good.. everybody who disagrees bad... He knows this happens only too well, it's these sort of standard tactics he employed for years that was partly responsible for running down Cakewalk imho. Anybody who disagreed with him he called a troll starting a witch hunt where he would start deleting peoples posts and banning people because they did not agree with him. Those who agreed with him or said nasty comments to those he disagreed with were left alone to edit quotes to make it look like something else, and shout insults at the proclaimed troll. People got put off, moved to other DAWs or just never adopted Sonar, and people here just got older and older.
 
Craig pretty much ALWAYS turned up here whenever ANY CRITICISM happened, with the purpose to stamp it out and bury it, and thus the status quo remained year after year as he beat up people with something to say into the ground whilst his followers worshipped him. Now he's here to pretend he was just a mere end user again and wash his hands of any responsibility. You worked for GIBSON Criag man up and take some responsibility.
 
Back to topic then... Actually NO Craig, no trade off - I do not want buggy projects that stop working AT ALL. That does not happen with Studio ONE - No amount of "shiny" features will make me think any different. I want my DAW to be as solid as a rock as do a lot of people.... that's another reason why me and a lot of people have moved on, and right now I do have a DAW that is just that, I just hope you don't come in and mess it all up another place that's surviving quite happily without your greatness.
 
Bye again for the moment... and I certainly won't miss you Craig. Unlike you I don't care either way if I'm missed or not, it's NOT all about me... I'm not a self publicist and I've got nothing to peddle. That's it I've said it now, I tried to avoid it as it probably won't do any good, but it feels good to get it off my chest. Anyway here now follows the usual messages of love to me from your fansbase as per usual right?? :)
 
That's my angry finished with, back to my DAW.

Well, do you know what REALLY boils my pish? 
 
After the NIGHTMARE of having to deal with the fact that Sonar frequently fails to save my Waves Q10 EQ settings with the project, I invested in Fabfilter's Pro-Q 2 on the basis that it would be the ideal replacement for my transparent/surgical EQ needs. 
 
Well g-g-g-g-guess what? SONAR IS FLATLINING ITS SETTINGS AS WELL. Yup, I'm opening projects to find Pro-Q's reset to the factory default instead of the tasty curves I'd spend hours perfecting the previous night. 
 
So let's review. First, my go-to was the Quadcurve EQ. I'd open projects to find it either flatlined or with random 16dB boosts in the same place on every instance in the project (also reported by others). So then I ditched it for the Waves Q10, a great EQ in my arsenal that I'd previously overlooked. Then Sonar started refusing to save its settings too. Replace it with a very expensive alternative only to find Sonar doing the same. 
 
Not that I feel like I wasted money on Pro-Q - it's an incredible plugin. I'll use it in my next DAW, which I'm presuming will include the revolutionary feature of actually being able to save my work properly. 
 
Sonar is a brick. 

Alex, I and others agree with you. I never liked seeing Craig run people off the forum.