Anderton
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/08 20:10:05
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☄ Helpfulby joel77 2018/01/10 01:04:31
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
There is no Cakewalk CEO and hasn't been one for over 5 years. I was co-general manager last year and take accountability for the decisions in that year obviously. Regarding the LP's, had I been in charge of the business side this year all I can say is that they would definitely have been an in-app purchases :) Those are amazing plugins and the guys who developed it were top notch. Frankly, I think if that had happened SONAR would still be around...and had I been in charge of the business side, I'd have created additional income streams. Noel was always looking for ways to get the word out about SONAR. What a lot of people may not know is he is an excellent jazz guitarist (not good, excellent!) so he always looked at SONAR from a practical standpoint. I will always think that when lifetime updates were introduced, Cakewalk was going in the right direction and that the company went off the rails after the lifetime updates, not because of them.
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bitman
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/08 20:18:10
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Hi Noel.
Thank you for your posts here.
I for one am happy as a clam with my Sonar Platinum and all that went into it.
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InstrEd
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/08 20:34:22
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michael diemer
I agree with Cactus. I'm using 8.5 Studio and it's fantastic (for me, of course). I feel no need to buy a new DAW. I did buy Reaper in 2015, and used it until the heinous news about Sonar broke. but then I decided to get my 8.5 Producer working again, since it would be the latest Sonar version I had. It had all the same problems that led me to go to Reaper. So I installed 8.5 Studio. Perfect. I don't know why Studio works and Producer doesn't doesn't. But I can work twice as fast in it than in Reaper. So, unless another DAW is clearly superior to Sonar, why not wait and see what happens? I can see making one purchase, taking advantage of a deal, but buying 2, 3 or more as some people are doing? it just seems like a waste of money. I don't buy something because it's on sale. I but it because I need it. But then, it's your money. And don't forget the time it will take to learn new software, which may turn out to be not as good. Remember, you can use Sonar almost indefinitely if you're careful.
I actually am one of those. Tracktion was a great deal for Sonar users at $51 and I got Biotek and the plugs are not tied to Tracktion. Got Samplitude deal because I wanted SpectraLayers Pro 4 and I'm actually liking the program. My third one I'm not sure of is SO1 3.5. Just not clicking with it. I think it is because I have to forget Sonar way of doing things :) Which is hard since I started with Pro Audio. Stopped and started back with Sonar 4. I think I'll stay in Cakewalk land but I decided to see what else is out there. Noel and company might be able to make a deal to keep Cakewalk Sonar alive but now I can check out other workflows at my leisure.
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Larry Jones
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/08 20:51:51
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sharke
I'm staying put, they'd have to offer me half a million at least. As such, I'm one of I think 3 people left in the building and it's eerily quiet. I'm the only one left on my floor. Having no neighbors has been great for audio production.
sharke - Have you seen Harry and Tonto? Good luck, dude. 
SONAR Platinum 2017.10 • CbB • Win10 • i7/2600 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 • NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS
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sharke
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/08 21:10:46
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Larry Jones
sharke
I'm staying put, they'd have to offer me half a million at least. As such, I'm one of I think 3 people left in the building and it's eerily quiet. I'm the only one left on my floor. Having no neighbors has been great for audio production.
sharke - Have you seen Harry and Tonto? Good luck, dude.
I have! Think if I traveled anywhere though I'd get home and they would have found some excuse to keep me out of my apartment - citing some non-existent danger or other - their name is Icon Realty and they're notorious for tenant harassment. They recent got fined half a million dollars by the city for harassing people and I have a feeling that's nothing more than a "business expense" for them lol...
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/08 23:05:00
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Cakewalk Staff
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 00:30:09
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☄ Helpfulby pentimentosound 2018/01/09 00:40:48
I'm not sure why you insist on over speculating and extrapolating despite all my posts earlier to explain whats going on, but you are welcome to have your (false) perspective. There is no hidden meaning to the FB page change. The FB was updated today to mirror the website content, since apparently many people don't check our website and were contacting support with other normal questions about sales etc. No agenda from Cakewalk or Gibson besides syncing up to have unified information.
Keep in mind that there is just a small skeleton crew who are managing the services during this transition so we don't have an army of people to keep track of all the social media channels and handle support inquiries as well.
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CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 01:04:59
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^^
Well I wrote this earlier and it got deleted again. Hmmm...
I have no reason to doubt you now Noel as it appears you are still being employed by Cakewalk/Gibson, I was under the impression you no longer were. Apologies for me being slow or misunderstanding.
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ampfixer
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 01:13:16
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☄ Helpfulby jjj.fcc 2018/01/09 12:36:59
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
I'm not sure why you insist on over speculating and extrapolating despite all my posts earlier to explain whats going on, but you are welcome to have your (false) perspective. There is no hidden meaning to the FB page change. The FB was updated today to mirror the website content, since apparently many people don't check our website and were contacting support with other normal questions about sales etc. No agenda from Cakewalk or Gibson besides syncing up to have unified information.
Keep in mind that there is just a small skeleton crew who are managing the services during this transition so we don't have an army of people to keep track of all the social media channels and handle support inquiries as well.
This is what confuses me so much. The released statements say Cakewalk is dead but I keep reading the highlighted phrase. Just what are you transitioning to?? Transition means a change from one thing to another, right?
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 01:24:29
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^^ A "hidden meaning" perhaps?  Transition: " the process or a period of changing from one state or condition to another." Naa not a hidden meaning... I think we have a fair idea now what the state/condition is now, what we don't know what the state/condition it will be in the end, and I suspect nor do they know otherwise we would know... there are lots of states/conditions to consider anyway. It's one of those phrases that can mean anything you like (by design). They can't shout "Cakewalk will live" nor do they want to shout "Cakewalk is dead" which imho is fair enough considering...
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CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 01:29:06
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Allow me the speculate more..
as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
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ampfixer
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 01:34:22
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I'm still waiting to hear from Alex Westner. I remember his arrival was announced and he put out a couple of statements and that was it. I thought he was Gibson's man on the scene. He was even listed as publisher on some of Andertons monthly newsletters. Guess he didn't work out.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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Anderton
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 02:05:58
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I doubt you'll hear anything from Alex Westner. Last I heard he wanted to get out of the music industry.
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Brian Walton
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 02:24:12
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ampfixer
Noels comments are interesting but they shed absolutely no light on the current situation. He maintains that the plan was good, there were world class developers and they were doing great things. But why then couldn't they make any money?
The really nice LP plug-ins, the drum replacer and that amazing adaptive limiter should have been paid for add-ons according to the announced business plan, but they weren't. I'm a lifer and I wouldn't have had any problem paying for them. I expected to pay for them based on the Sonar For Life announcement. But they dropped the ball. No follow-through. The Cakewalk CEO has yet to make an appearance or offer an explanation. Was Noel actually the one running the company and making the business decisions?
We still don't know anything
They should have been offered as add-ons to non-lifers. The lifers should have gotten them included as it was still early in the lifetime program, where users needed to get the value out of the money they were asked to put down that was above and beyond. eventually yes, I would have expected to pay for "in app" purchases, but not in the first year where lifetimes was basically like adding on another year of updates plus some. It has been said countless times that Platinum users were the minority of the company revenue. I think we can drop the speculation that offering lifetime updates was the demise. In fact, it is pretty obvious that it was a revenue boost to the company. What they should have done is open up those revenue streams to the bigger user base they have. Sell the Adaptive limiter for $50 to anyone that wanted it and they would have sold like hotcakes. The days of $200 plugins are over. Cakewalk certainly needed better marketing and quite frankly "us" as the user based needed to help more.
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CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 02:33:20
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^^
IMHO should have been sold as separate plugins to everybody, lifers were a revenue stream. People would have been pissed if lifers got special deals.
Of course everybody is agreeing that these plugins should have actually been sold retrospectively, as though it wasn't blatantly obvious at the time when they came out that they should do this... Or if it was blatantly obvious to them at the time - it wasn't their decision, and they had absolutely no influence at all/nothing to do with it.
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Blades
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 03:31:44
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☄ Helpfulby CakeAlexSHere 2018/01/09 03:33:37
Hey Noel,
Good to see you here glad to see that there might be hope for the program we have come to love (or hate).
But, realistically, as much as I want to wait around for the announcement that someone has bought sonar code and team, you must realize that we are all smart enough to know it takes time to unravel this sort of thing, but it has also been almost a full two months since the announcement and THAT is too long to only have the news extended to social media channels and somehow expect that we, the customers, are not going to believe that it is over. The wording says its over. And for those if us who bought into the lifetime program, whether it was well intended or not, it IS over and I don't think there is a lot that can be done about the trust factor.
I would certainly still be interested in good news but as a business owner, I have to think that companies as large as Gibson and cakewalk had to have known that all of this was a bad idea and should have known better.
Tell Gibson to get on with it before they lose the remaining users they have.
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sharke
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 03:35:45
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
I'm not sure why you insist on over speculating and extrapolating despite all my posts earlier to explain whats going on, but you are welcome to have your (false) perspective. There is no hidden meaning to the FB page change. The FB was updated today to mirror the website content, since apparently many people don't check our website and were contacting support with other normal questions about sales etc. No agenda from Cakewalk or Gibson besides syncing up to have unified information.
Keep in mind that there is just a small skeleton crew who are managing the services during this transition so we don't have an army of people to keep track of all the social media channels and handle support inquiries as well.
I think where Cakewalk went wrong here was that the announcement back in November should have been across the board. You did the announcement on the forum, and the Cakewalk website was updated too. Would it really have been that much more work to cut and paste the same announcement onto the Facebook and Twitter pages? That would have taken 2 minutes max. And then a circular email to all registered users. Again, with modern technology, these things take literally a few minutes. Having said that, it kind of disturbs me that so many people were knocked for six by that Facebook announcement. Two months after it happened and they didn't know. I think in this day and age, if you use software that is important to your life (either professionally or recreationally) then you have a responsibility to yourself to keep up with news and developments.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 03:37:48
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Whatever happens I hope we are getting software that does not phone "home" for activation soon. That includes Rapture Pro. Any other plugins periodically phone home for activation purposes please let us know. Looking at the history, I perceive things are probably not going to be handled well rightly or wrongly.
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ampfixer
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 04:08:04
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I have no idea what the logistics are to roll out a unique set of codes for each registered customer. Gibson won't put the money into it. I would buy a set of install disks with my codes burned into it.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 04:13:59
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ampfixer
I have no idea what the logistics are to roll out a unique set of codes for each registered customer. Gibson won't put the money into it. I would buy a set of install disks with my codes burned into it.
Should not require extra codes, IMHO they will need to supply us new builds of the software (Sonar, Rapture, maybe CCC) that does not phone home as far as I'm aware that just authorizes locally, unless there is some sort of backdoor plan already in place (I'd be very surprised). It would be nice to know how it would work... EDIT. Of course any existing regression bugs would still be contained, those using older versions of Platinum to get away from them would no longer have the option... Or maybe.
post edited by CakeAlexSHere - 2018/01/09 11:02:16
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Magic Russ
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 05:35:19
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Didn't the LP products replace the ones that had existed in X3? If so you'd really need to include them at whatever level they originally were included.
The Adaptive Limiter should have been sold separately for sure. Also, were the LP products for sale outside of Sonar? That might not have been a bad idea.
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Magic Russ
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 05:39:28
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CakeAlexSHere
Whatever happens I hope we are getting software that does not phone "home" for activation soon. That includes Rapture Pro. Any other plugins periodically phone home for activation purposes please let us know. Looking at the history, I perceive things are probably not going to be handled well rightly or wrongly.
Can anyone confirm which products do that? I believe it's Sonar, Rapture Pro, and Z3ta2 but I'd like to know for sure.
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Skyline_UK
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 09:07:40
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I guess we're all probably trying to infer hope from Noel's remarks; I certainly am. There are certainly sparks in them indicating that the business is at least still in existence and not being completely shut down.
His posts sadly use the past tense when referring to the small development team, so they have been laid off I assume, but LinkedIn still shows Noel as being CTO from '1999-Present'.
Fingers crossed.
My stuff Intel Sandy Bridge i7 2600 @ 3.4GHz, 4 cores, 8 threads, 16GB RAM.OS & Programs drive: 240GB SSD
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Windows 10 Home 64 bit
Cakewalk by BandLab 64 bit, Studio One 3, Band In A Box 2016, Ozone 8+ too many other pluginsBandLab page
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CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 10:19:24
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Magic Russ
Didn't the LP products replace the ones that had existed in X3? If so you'd really need to include them at whatever level they originally were included.
The Adaptive Limiter should have been sold separately for sure. Also, were the LP products for sale outside of Sonar? That might not have been a bad idea.
Yup. Did the old LPs run outside of Sonar? Another point is they really should get the new plugins to run outside of Sonar to show good faith, as everybody else has done like Overloud etc. Will they? .. probably not. I notice people say it's tied to the hip with Sonar but I assume license code just needs to be altered (?). Somebody said there was a major bug with one of them though (memory fails me).
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.
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 11:29:08
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The new LP plugs run outside SONAR (I think the old did as well?) the new limiter doesn't however.
I don't use them (I have many others I prefer) but I tested them. Ironically the first time I tried them in Studio One they crashed it, first and only time Studio One has crashed on me in the 2 1/2 years or so I have been using it. (I tried them again later down the track and all was fine) But the irony of the crash was not lost on me.
Intel i7 4790 @3.6Ghz - 32GB Ram - Windows 10 Pro 64bit - RME Fireface UFX+
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More Plugs than Plumbers Warehouse.
Happy Studio One User Since August 2015
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anydmusic
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 12:45:56
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Magic Russ
Didn't the LP products replace the ones that had existed in X3? If so you'd really need to include them at whatever level they originally were included.
The Adaptive Limiter should have been sold separately for sure. Also, were the LP products for sale outside of Sonar? That might not have been a bad idea.
The LP's could have been sold as an upgrade, that's what a lot of other companies would have done. Selling Adaptive Limiter outside of Sonar would have been a great idea except it seemed to require some specific code in Sonar to work its magic. I'm pretty sure that if Cakewalk had tried to sell these as extras there would have been a lot of fuss made here in part at least because Life Time Updates were positioned as for the Sonar Platinum Package and not the DAW component of Sonar. The question then becomes is the Adaptive Limiter an upgrade to the package or a new addon. Problem is that including it for new users makes it an upgrade to the package. Alternative is that you bundle it to attract new users but maintain it as an addon. Based on the licensing it looks like they kept the options open but the version comparison shows it as part of the package. To be honest I never gave this much thought at the time as I needed an upgrade and Life Time Updates was the same price as a 12 month option so it was an easy choice. I never stopped to think about what I was expecting and its not just Adaptive Limiter, what about the next version of Melodyne, Addictive Drummer, Breverb, etc. depending on the arrangement with the developers these might all of attracted a cost for Cakewalk if made avaialbel to LTU users. One problem for a future owner is that they will inherit the expectations associated with Life Time Updates even though I don't think they will have a legal liability. I think the bigger problem though will be winning back the people who have switched to or are switching to an alternative. Irony being that some of the "locked" third parties have helped make switching easier.
Graham Windows 10 64 bit - Intel i7-4790, 16GB, 2 x 256GB SSD Cubase 9.5 Sonar Platinum (Rapture Pro, Z3TA 2, CA2A, plus some other bits) Delta 24/96, UAD 1, UA25 EX, 2 x MidiSport, IKMultiMedia - (SampleTank 3, Miroslav 2, Syntronik, TRacks 5, Modo Bass), Band In A Box, Sound Quest, VS Pro, Kinetic, Acid, Sound Forge, Jammer Waves MaxxVolume, IR 1, Aphex Enhancer, Abbey Plates Korg Legacy, VStation, Bass Station
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anydmusic
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 13:18:15
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CakeAlexSHere
Magic Russ
Didn't the LP products replace the ones that had existed in X3? If so you'd really need to include them at whatever level they originally were included.
The Adaptive Limiter should have been sold separately for sure. Also, were the LP products for sale outside of Sonar? That might not have been a bad idea.
Yup.
Did the old LPs run outside of Sonar?
Another point is they really should get the new plugins to run outside of Sonar to show good faith, as everybody else has done like Overloud etc. Will they? .. probably not. I notice people say it's tied to the hip with Sonar but I assume license code just needs to be altered (?). Somebody said there was a major bug with one of them though (memory fails me).
The cynic in me thinks that the third parties like Overloud are not unlocking the plugins because without Sonar we don't get a "free" upgrade as part of a future Sonar release which gives them a great selling opportunity in the future. In contrast if there is to be a future owner of the Cakewalk code base they are not going to want any revenue opportunities limited by "good will" and "generosity". If they suddenly start giving stuff away I think that'll be a good sign that it really is over (assuming you don't accept that it is already over).
Graham Windows 10 64 bit - Intel i7-4790, 16GB, 2 x 256GB SSD Cubase 9.5 Sonar Platinum (Rapture Pro, Z3TA 2, CA2A, plus some other bits) Delta 24/96, UAD 1, UA25 EX, 2 x MidiSport, IKMultiMedia - (SampleTank 3, Miroslav 2, Syntronik, TRacks 5, Modo Bass), Band In A Box, Sound Quest, VS Pro, Kinetic, Acid, Sound Forge, Jammer Waves MaxxVolume, IR 1, Aphex Enhancer, Abbey Plates Korg Legacy, VStation, Bass Station
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CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 14:06:52
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chuckebaby
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 14:22:44
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☄ Helpfulby Dorian2 2018/01/21 16:15:03
anydmusic
The cynic in me thinks that the third parties like Overloud are not unlocking the plugins because without Sonar we don't get a "free" upgrade as part of a future Sonar release which gives them a great selling opportunity in the future.
Overloud did unlock their plug ins for all Cakewalk users with a valid copy of Sonar.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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anydmusic
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Re: Cakewalk Announcement
2018/01/09 14:26:20
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chuckebaby
anydmusic
The cynic in me thinks that the third parties like Overloud are not unlocking the plugins because without Sonar we don't get a "free" upgrade as part of a future Sonar release which gives them a great selling opportunity in the future.
Overloud did unlock their plug ins for all Cakewalk users with a valid copy of Sonar.
Oops really should read things properly, meant to add the words "for altruistic reasons but" to that sentence...
Graham Windows 10 64 bit - Intel i7-4790, 16GB, 2 x 256GB SSD Cubase 9.5 Sonar Platinum (Rapture Pro, Z3TA 2, CA2A, plus some other bits) Delta 24/96, UAD 1, UA25 EX, 2 x MidiSport, IKMultiMedia - (SampleTank 3, Miroslav 2, Syntronik, TRacks 5, Modo Bass), Band In A Box, Sound Quest, VS Pro, Kinetic, Acid, Sound Forge, Jammer Waves MaxxVolume, IR 1, Aphex Enhancer, Abbey Plates Korg Legacy, VStation, Bass Station
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