Whistlekiller
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 19:50:03
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MakerDP
scook
MakerDP Waiting to see how much the NEXT update will cost when it comes out... and if this version will stop working when it does. Meh... maybe not. I've moved on. Also, why would you even want to install this when you already have the latest SPLAT if there is no new content, LESS content even? Were there bug fixes?
Thanks for stopping by. The NEXT update won't cost a thing from http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3745236
meng Platform and future product updates will continue to be free, just like BandLab - innovation must push forward!
But don't expect Rapture Pro for example to be free when it is re-released :-) (except for those that have bought it before in some way or form and have already created a BandLab account)
Yes, there were updates in this release mentioned in the OP. Bye for now.
OK well thanks for the reply and the pointer to the post but if that is going to be the model... free tools for the users of BandLab's main offering... well where's the incentive to make this the best DAW on the market beyond the point Meng sells-out or launches the new model? As far as I can tell, BandLab is going with the Facebook/YouTube model... make it all free-and-clear and then when the user base is big enough and hooked enough, sell advertisements, sell product advancements (ranked higher on searches, guaranteed hits in "random" playlists, etc.), user "subscriptions" that allow bypassing ads, sell mined profile data/targeted ads and then launch a big IPO or hope some larger company buys it out. If and when that doesn't all work out? Well Cakewalk is once again kaput and the users are desperately hoping someone else will bail the product out yet again. If I were using Cakewalk to make a living (I'm not) then I would give up for good and go with something in which you have at least reasonable security that it will be around for a while.
If I were making music for a living (I'm not) then I'd not be so naive as to limit myself to only one or two DAWs in the first place, the same as I wouldn't with any other possible redundancies. Reasonable security no longer exists in the IT world unless you're Microsoft. For the amateur like me, BandLab is a breath of fresh air.
X11 i7 3770-3.4Ghz, 32Gb RAM, Win 10 Pro 64 Bit, Sonar Platinum, V-Studio 100, V-Contol 1.9 iPad, Omnisphere Power Synth, Alesis V61 Keyboard, Novation Launch Control, Roland JV1010 Synth, Roland GR55 Guitar Synth, Line 6 Pod with floorboard, Shure PG42 Mic, 4 guitars, 5 string bass, upright bass, ukelele, mandolin, Cambridge SoundWorks THX Speakers, M-Audio Speakers
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mkerl
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 19:53:21
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bitflipper Hab Geduld.
Das geht ja gar nich :) :) :)
Nothing to do but playing (Ch. Parker)
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MakerDP
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 19:56:38
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Keni Nothing is secure! Anything can change!
I totally agree with that but you have to admit, BandLab right now is nothing but pure e-commerce startup speculation! There are currently NO revenue streams for it other than a $40 phone audio interface. Meng is not doing this out of some altruistic hippie-like love of creating communities for musicians to share their work!
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MakerDP
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 20:00:44
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Whistlekiller If I were making music for a living (I'm not) then I'd not be so naive as to limit myself to only one or two DAWs in the first place, the same as I wouldn't with any other possible redundancies. I'm not sure what your point is here...
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Whistlekiller
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 20:06:32
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MakerDP
Keni Nothing is secure! Anything can change!
I totally agree with that but you have to admit, BandLab right now is nothing but pure e-commerce startup speculation! There are currently NO revenue streams for it other than a $40 phone audio interface. Meng is not doing this out of some altruistic hippie-like love of creating communities for musicians to share their work!
In which case you'd better not buy into anything ever again,from anybody, as they're all obviously out for themselves and not telling the truth. I used to set power presses for a living and I'm pretty pleased that the salesmen in our company said it as it was and managed to convince customers that we were doing a good job. Saved us all from the dole.
X11 i7 3770-3.4Ghz, 32Gb RAM, Win 10 Pro 64 Bit, Sonar Platinum, V-Studio 100, V-Contol 1.9 iPad, Omnisphere Power Synth, Alesis V61 Keyboard, Novation Launch Control, Roland JV1010 Synth, Roland GR55 Guitar Synth, Line 6 Pod with floorboard, Shure PG42 Mic, 4 guitars, 5 string bass, upright bass, ukelele, mandolin, Cambridge SoundWorks THX Speakers, M-Audio Speakers
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mkerl
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 20:13:59
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MakerDP
Keni Nothing is secure! Anything can change!
I totally agree with that but you have to admit, BandLab right now is nothing but pure e-commerce startup speculation! There are currently NO revenue streams for it other than a $40 phone audio interface. Meng is not doing this out of some altruistic hippie-like love of creating communities for musicians to share their work!
Maybe he'll come up with a revolutionary marketing model for professional produced music? It makes no sense to offer this full featured award winning DAW to an online community of homebased singer / songwriters only. Just Hoping for ads. Don't know. However Cheers :) :)
Nothing to do but playing (Ch. Parker)
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MarianoGF
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 20:14:54
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☄ Helpfulby Daibhidh 2018/04/06 00:15:51
I guess the DAW will always be for free (with the basic plugins) and that's great. Something like BandLab gives you the "Artist" version for free. What you will have to pay for is every advanced plugin, instrument or pack you want to become "Professional" or "Platinum". That is what I guess, maybe I'm wrong.
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bitflipper
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 20:15:15
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☄ Helpfulby texasaurus rex 2018/04/05 20:25:21
mkerl
bitflipper Hab Geduld.
Das geht ja gar nich :) :) :)
I get it. This bunch has the patience of a 3-year-old. But I totally get it. Regarding the loss of the Powr-N dither options, I didn't even notice that until someone pointed it out to me. The reason: I haven't used SONAR for dithering in many years. My primary mastering limiters are Pro-L and Ozone, both of which offer their own dither options. As do most of the more popular limiters, e.g. Elephant and L2.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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texasaurus rex
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 20:23:46
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Meng has been 100% honest and straightforward up to this point, and who wouldn't be excited to roll out an awesome DAW?! Sometimes that New Yorker thing needs to chill; that was close to a personal attack on someone that has done nothing but help everyone on this forum. We got "burned" by Gibson...the OLD Cakewalk is history, part of the past. The NEW Cakewalk By BandLab is part of the future, is free to use, and apparently has some young blood chomping at the bit , making an effort. Isn't that better than a stale corporate model like Gibson? I f you just don't want to use the DAW, then don't., but basing your decision on Meng's enthusiastic roll out of the new DAW seems unfair. BTW, I also use Studio One 3, it was my secondary to SONAR. I like it, but they also have a sales pitch for upgrades and extras going 24/7. They didn't offer me an upgrade deal of much value, so we went with the FULL Samplitude Pro X3 crossgrade offer which was the same price. My big hope was that Cakewalk would survive, looks like it has. If you were a daily user of SONAR, as we are, it's great to have a version that works, has future support. Thanks, Meng and everyone at BandLab!
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MakerDP
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 20:23:54
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Whistlekiller
MakerDP
Keni Nothing is secure! Anything can change!
I totally agree with that but you have to admit, BandLab right now is nothing but pure e-commerce startup speculation! There are currently NO revenue streams for it other than a $40 phone audio interface. Meng is not doing this out of some altruistic hippie-like love of creating communities for musicians to share their work!
In which case you'd better not buy into anything ever again,from anybody, as they're all obviously out for themselves and not telling the truth. I used to set power presses for a living and I'm pretty pleased that the salesmen in our company said it as it was and managed to convince customers that we were doing a good job. Saved us all from the dole.
LOL ok... you are totally missing the point. This isn't about whether or not he's telling the truth. I have no doubt that HE intends to live up to what he's saying. But what if he sells-out or his speculation fails? Are you so quick to remember the hundreds of dollars people lost with the "lifetime updates" fiasco? Use BandLab, Cakewalk by BandLab, some freeware LINUX DAW you downloaded off of GitHub, whatever floats your boat... I don't really care. But there is WAY more going on with this than you and most others posting here are willing to realize and in my opinion, there is little incentive to make Cakewalk the "best" DAW on the market once his business model is fully realized.
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scook
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 20:25:13
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MarianoGF I guess the DAW will always be for free (with the basic plugins) and that's great. Something like BandLab gives you the "Artist" version for free. What you will have to pay for is every advanced plugin, instrument or pack you want to become "Professional" or "Platinum". That is what I guess, maybe I'm wrong.
That is the plan but you will not be asked to re-purchase plug-ins you already have.
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mkerl
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 20:26:35
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Nothing to do but playing (Ch. Parker)
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MakerDP
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 20:29:01
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mkerl
MakerDP
Keni Nothing is secure! Anything can change!
I totally agree with that but you have to admit, BandLab right now is nothing but pure e-commerce startup speculation! There are currently NO revenue streams for it other than a $40 phone audio interface. Meng is not doing this out of some altruistic hippie-like love of creating communities for musicians to share their work!
Maybe he'll come up with a revolutionary marketing model for professional produced music? It makes no sense to offer this full featured award winning DAW to an online community of homebased singer / songwriters only. Just Hoping for ads. Don't know. However Cheers :) :)
You could be right. But it sure worked for Facebook, YouTube and Google!
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Jon Bryson
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 20:32:02
(permalink)
Well, I have to admit I'm intrigued by what they're doing here. My thought after Cakewalk folded is that it wouldn't matter if someone else picked it up. If they weren't making money prior to that they certainly lost a large portion of their users almost immediately after they stopped development to the many offers from other DAW makers. I didn't think they could be profitable under any standard business model. So that someone is taking this and trying something completely different - I wish them all the best and truly hope it succeeds. I did move on but will also keep whatever latest version of Cakewalk by Bandlab installed and see how it pans out. In the mean time I'm still making music.
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Jon Bryson
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 20:33:12
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I for one would never have predicted that Facebook, YouTube or Google would have been so widely successful (and profitable).
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Kamm Schreiner
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 20:35:25
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mkerl I still use windows phone :) :) :) Have an android crap thing too, I don't like it. But to be serious - I wouldt compare Bandlab to YouTube. That means, they need content. Why not give users a great tool to create? The outstanding feature of Bandlab is to collaborate. I think, some users will be overchallenged with this new approach. Cheers :)
I begrudgingly switched to Android from Windows Phone. I'm not sure that we even disagree from reading what you just said (not sure I understand what you mean), but my point is that we live in a different world than when all software was paid for, you got updates free and then paid for the next upgrade. I brought up in a post a long time ago that I suspected that Cakewalk had a tough time selling SPLAT because there were free and "almost free" alternatives that were pretty darn good. That was pooh-poohed. I still think that to be the case. (We'll never know for sure unless Noel sets the record straight. Did I say that out loud?) I suspect the only model that will work in today's world is the give the DAW away and charge for add-ons approach. Personally, I hope for Meng's success and am thankful that he's taken over SPLAT.
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Keni
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 20:40:27
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] 2018/04/06 00:25:52
MakerDP
Keni Nothing is secure! Anything can change!
I totally agree with that but you have to admit, BandLab right now is nothing but pure e-commerce startup speculation! There are currently NO revenue streams for it other than a $40 phone audio interface. Meng is not doing this out of some altruistic hippie-like love of creating communities for musicians to share their work!
Also a large retail sales network and Rolling Stone magazine I believe?
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losguy
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 20:46:09
(permalink)
bitflipper I get it. This bunch has the patience of a 3-year-old. But I totally get it.
And in my case at least, the attention span of a goldfish... bitflipper Regarding the loss of the Powr-N dither options, I didn't even notice that until someone pointed it out to me. The reason: I haven't used SONAR for dithering in many years. My primary mastering limiters are Pro-L and Ozone, both of which offer their own dither options. As do most of the more popular limiters, e.g. Elephant and L2.
Great point! I do have Elephant (a very nice mastering limiter) and though I had heard the dither is really good in there, I had never used it for that purpose, mainly because I could just select PowR dither at the Export -> Audio stage. This will be agreat excuse for me to delve into that feature further - maybe the rest of us have great dithering options hidden inside some plugs, just waiting to be dusted off. (Or maybe we could just force everybody else in the world to listen to their audio at 64-bit floating point? ;)
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mkerl
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 20:55:38
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MakerDP
mkerl
MakerDP
Keni Nothing is secure! Anything can change!
I totally agree with that but you have to admit, BandLab right now is nothing but pure e-commerce startup speculation! There are currently NO revenue streams for it other than a $40 phone audio interface. Meng is not doing this out of some altruistic hippie-like love of creating communities for musicians to share their work!
Maybe he'll come up with a revolutionary marketing model for professional produced music? It makes no sense to offer this full featured award winning DAW to an online community of homebased singer / songwriters only. Just Hoping for ads. Don't know. However Cheers :) :)
You could be right. But it sure worked for Facebook, YouTube and Google!
But it's a bit different. Facebook wants your personal information to deal with, as well as google does. Youtube buildts on creative content, no need for professional quality, authentical presentation wins, besides pranks, boobs, cat- videos . . . . Youtube will never reach the professional level of hollywood productions, cause it's extrem expensive to work on that level. So, know Meng wants to redefine the musicworld with Bandlab. Sonar (CbB) is professional level and you don't need that much equipment to make professional music even for Hollywood film scores, if you know how to do it. It's more a question of skills. I mean, online social media and professional media producing (video, music) are different worlds. Splat is professional, no social media app. So, what the heck is he (Meng) looking for? Cheers :)
Nothing to do but playing (Ch. Parker)
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NunoP
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 20:58:44
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Amazing. This is the future! I am proud of watching a new era of music creation being born
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mkerl
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 21:09:59
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Kamm Schreiner
mkerl I still use windows phone :) :) :) Have an android crap thing too, I don't like it. But to be serious - I wouldt compare Bandlab to YouTube. That means, they need content. Why not give users a great tool to create? The outstanding feature of Bandlab is to collaborate. I think, some users will be overchallenged with this new approach. Cheers :)
. . . my point is that we live in a different world than when all software was paid for, you got updates free and then paid for the next upgrade. I brought up in a post a long time ago that I suspected that Cakewalk had a tough time selling SPLAT because there were free and "almost free" alternatives that were pretty darn good.
Yeah times are changing, that's true, Cakewalk tried this Membership-model, Adobe and Microsoft are even more radical with their Abo-models. But I was always looking at Splat as competitor to cubase, logic, digital performer and others, these are all still using the oldschool paid upgrade path . . . Cheers
Nothing to do but playing (Ch. Parker)
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ØSkald
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 21:14:20
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It late night here in Norway, so i just played through 2 projects, and it works fine. Now i am happy. Glad it didn't uninstall previous Sonar, because its always good to have a backup for now. I also think that Cakewalk is the best name, since this is the legacy. Congratulation to BandLab and congratulation to the Cakewalk community.
Asus TUF Z370-Pro Gaming, Bugera Trirec Infinium, Cakewalk Platinum, Corsair RM750 750W, Corsair Vengeance DDR4 4x8GB, Gigabyte GTX 960 2GB, Genelec 6010A with 5040A sub, Ibanez AEG10II BK, Ibanez Iron Label RGIR27E BK, Ibanez Iron Label RGIR28FE BK, Ibanez RG550 RF, Ibanez RG570 FMCS, Ibanez SR506 BM, Intel Core i7 8700K, USB, NI Komplete 11 Ultimate with Kontrol S61, Samsung 960 EVO M.2 NVMe SSD, Samsung SSDs 840 EVO 1TB, Toontrack EZdrummer 2, Toontrack EZMix 2, Toontrack Superior Drummer 3, UA Apollo Twin Duo, Windows 10 Pro
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igiwigi
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 21:30:25
(permalink)
aidanodr
igiwigi Hi My view Is you get nothing for free and I am a little confused here. There has got to be a payment somewhere down the line. Do I now unload the Sonar Platinum Cakewalk centre and uninstall all my stuff to reload with Bandlab assistant.?? If I use the Bandlab assistant and log in with facebook or Google, then all and sundrae can download a £400 program for free!!!! So where is the profit for Bandlab. Surely the previous owners of Platinum will have a personal codes to enter. I do not want to make a mistake on my new computer or mess up what I already have, so i need to be sure of what Is going on. Surely only previous owners of Sonar can download this product and not open to all. I keep hearing the word free and there has got to be a catch somewhere.TELL ME!!!. I am not doubting Bandlabs Intentions, but I need some clarity and steps to take before being happy. All the Best John No .. leave your SPLAT as is and CCC Just load the BL Assistant app ( login with your Bandlab Account ) and install BL Cakewalk ONLY. Do not install the optional instruments, you have those already. BL Cakewalk installs in its own directory under program files seperate from SPLAT. When creating a Bnadlab account use the same email address that you used for here - Cakewalk legacy account. Going forward this shows BL what software you bought from Cakewalk so as to probably offer paid upgrades to previous owners of those extra plugins you might own like Rapture, Z3TA etc. These were never going to be free anyway
Hi Big thanks for the Info.I will see where all this goes now All the best John
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vanceen
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 21:52:16
(permalink)
It installed on my C: drive without giving me the option for another location. Don't care much for that. I guess I'll need to set up some junction folders.
SONAR Platinum Windows 10 ASUS X99E WE Core i7 5960X 32 GB Corsair DDR4 2133 C13 Fireface UFX USB driver 1.098 GeForce GTX 950
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mumpcake
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 22:15:50
(permalink)
scook
MarianoGF I guess the DAW will always be for free (with the basic plugins) and that's great. Something like BandLab gives you the "Artist" version for free. What you will have to pay for is every advanced plugin, instrument or pack you want to become "Professional" or "Platinum". That is what I guess, maybe I'm wrong.
That is the plan but you will not be asked to re-purchase plug-ins you already have.
Yes you will. My inbox is full of messages from vendors asking me to buy things I already have. However, you won't be required to repurchase your old toys.
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Studio-ES
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 22:20:14
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☄ Helpfulby Daibhidh 2018/04/06 00:10:15
The software world is constantly changing. Look at the monthly-payment subscription model Adobe introduced years ago. Most people (other than businesses) don't want to pay $500 or $2000 for a piece of software, so a monthly-payment subscription plan may be the only option. Hacked software has been a problem for decades and has resulted in these new authorization methods that have become so complicated, many users wish they had never bought the software in the first place. (i.e.-Waves). Look at iOS, users complain about the cost of $10 soft-synths on iOS that compete with $300 synths on the desktop. Lots of developers there have moved to the monthly-payment subscription plan even for really inexpensive apps! The top DAW on iOS was free for a week to get more people onboard and hopefully to buy their sample-packs (Intua Beatmaker 3). The prices for top iOS apps like Cubasis & Auria Pro drop more often than stuff on Amazon. PPG, SugarBytes, etc apps on iOS with all of the functionality of their desktop apps, except they cost 90% less. Or even less during the many sales during the year in the Apple Store. I like what Bandlab are doing. I haven't tried their iOS app yet, but it seems similar to SoundCloud from years ago, plus some things from Korg Gadget Cloud. It's free model is yet another model that many iOS DAW/Groovebox developers have adopted (Roli Noise, Auxy, Figure) where there's a community of music producers and the money-making is in the add-ons (IAPs and sample-banks). Oh, and with the recent Facebook, Google, privacy scares, malware, etc, it's understandable if people are concerned with free software that seems too good to be true. I certainly was, so I do what I always do, install the software first on a dedicated machine and monitor the network traffic for a while. Nothing unusual so far. BTW, all the complaining, fear-mongering, and paranoia is annoying. Good thing I'm not a developer or owner otherwise I'd think "Wow, these people are unappreciative" and scrap the whole thing and deal with the losses.
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Keni
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 22:39:04
(permalink)
mkerl
MakerDP
mkerl
MakerDP
Keni Nothing is secure! Anything can change!
I totally agree with that but you have to admit, BandLab right now is nothing but pure e-commerce startup speculation! There are currently NO revenue streams for it other than a $40 phone audio interface. Meng is not doing this out of some altruistic hippie-like love of creating communities for musicians to share their work!
Maybe he'll come up with a revolutionary marketing model for professional produced music? It makes no sense to offer this full featured award winning DAW to an online community of homebased singer / songwriters only. Just Hoping for ads. Don't know. However Cheers :) :)
You could be right. But it sure worked for Facebook, YouTube and Google!
But it's a bit different. Facebook wants your personal information to deal with, as well as google does. Youtube buildts on creative content, no need for professional quality, authentical presentation wins, besides pranks, boobs, cat- videos . . . . Youtube will never reach the professional level of hollywood productions, cause it's extrem expensive to work on that level. So, know Meng wants to redefine the musicworld with Bandlab. Sonar (CbB) is professional level and you don't need that much equipment to make professional music even for Hollywood film scores, if you know how to do it. It's more a question of skills. I mean, online social media and professional media producing (video, music) are different worlds. Splat is professional, no social media app. So, what the heck is he (Meng) looking for? Cheers :)
Avid has a free version of Media Composer that while a less fewtured version, has a learning curve to challenge any novice user... Pro software even qt the free level...
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chris.r
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 22:40:44
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A question to devs, are there plans to keep CbB bridging 32bit VST(i)s in future (like Reaper is doing)? Hope for that. PS: Cb and B are the same notes, seems CbB name's in tune, just sayin...:P
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Keni
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 22:42:29
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BTW
Volvo now offers a subscription option for their' cars that includes insurance etc.....
It's a continually changing world. Always has been but the new digital paradigm changes faster!
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Keni
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Re: ‘Cakewalk By BandLab’ is here. Free. Available for Windows now. [4/4/2018]
2018/04/05 22:44:45
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chris.r A question to devs, are there plans to keep CbB bridging 32bit VST(i)s in future (like Reaper is doing)? Hope for that. PS: Cb and B are the same notes, seems CbB name's in tune, just sayin...:P
I'm already using such... 32bit in Cakewalk by Bandlab!
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