30 posts to a page = 8 pages X 30 = 240 + 2 (currently 242 posts) for 69 names on a list. I know it sounds like I'm being negative I'm just interested in the numbers.

I appreciate all the work and trouble that you guys are going to as I'll reap the benefits (so will all other users) if it comes off, for sure, but 69 names out of thousands and thousands of sales with a claimed unit sales numbering over 1,000,000.

I just hope we're not over estimating our degree of influence. It'd be nice to think that we do and I certainly hope so but then there's those numbers.

Cakewalk boasted of 1 Million users (implied across its complete software catalogue) a few years back as part of its marketing blurbs when introducing a particular SONAR version.

I can't see a company like Cakewalk especially now they are part of a bigger wheel ie Roland, opening up so to speak with a model such as Reaper users for example for its testing and feature requests etc. That's not a criticism just an observation.

I think Cakewalk listen but as they boast of being a company of musicians we may well be at the mercy of what those musicians think is the way to program and develop SONAR's feature set, not what we ask/demand by way of a written submission with only 69 signatories. That may well equal the number of staff working on the Cakewalk team. Of course I don't know anything, I can only draw conclusions from what I read and hear from other sources.

As I said I'm not trying to be negative. The numbers do say something though, whether what they say to me is universal or becomes the reality we wont know until it's happened.

I consider it an interseting observation that there have been many infrequent posters (in the recent past say since SONAR 6 to7) who have been members of this forum for many years come back and start postng again since the release of SONAR 8.5. Of course my obsservation is not quntified by any figures its just an observation. Maybe SONAR 8.5 is the version that will really tip Cakewalk over into the big time where so many SONAR fans already see it.

Mike, Marah,

My take on the 1,000,000 users is probably some magic accounting numbers cooked up by the marketing department, no disrespect intended. A lot of companies do exactly the same thing. Back in the day, you might remember the old "5.35431 Gazillion served" at McDonald's. Similar thing. I think they've managed to have 1,000,000+ sales, and that covers a very broad range of products, all up and down the chain of consumer, prosumer, enthusiast and professional products over Cakewalk's many years in business.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the publicly available info supports that. According to some public financial websites (do a google) Cakewalk employs between 55-100 people and has annual revenue of about $9-10 million. Even if ALL that revenue is generated by simply upgrade sales alone of active Sonar upgraders (which of course it's not, by any stretch of the imagination), then we're looking at an active Sonar base of 60,000 users max -- best case scenario, if those annual sales numbers are correct.

But whatever the magic numbers really are, I think 69 signatures (actually, it's now 71 for the record) are fantastic! Like I mentioned in a prior post in this thread, how many people does that really signify as a percentage of active Sonar users in the world? Percentage of visitors to this forum? Percentage of people who actually read the thread? It's impossible to know, except to the accountants and statistics gurus at Cakewalk.

Personally, my wild, crazy, good-hearted guess is, based on what little data I know and can extrapolate, is that every signature represents a solid two orders of magnitude or more of what the total Sonar community might want if we were to sit down with every active Sonar user and talk with them about these issues point by point. Any serious DAW users I've discussed these issues with -- including non-Sonar users -- agree these are the types of things that would attract them to Sonar, whether or not they participate in this forum. So, for the fun of it, let's say these 71 signatures represent two orders of magnitude of the people that really would sign this if we had the chance to talk to every user -- that's 7,100 people. So let's say my prior best-case scenario of an active real-world userbase of Sonar alone is 60,000 users.... so 7,100 out of 60,000 is pretty good. Of course, that's just fun speculation.

The forum stats are also informative. There are 53,000-ish registered users on this forum. Judging by other forums that I know underlying statistical information about, only a small percentage of those people will actually participate regularly. The bulk of those appear to be Sonar users (or at least the most active group among them are Sonar users), but there's no way even a fraction of those people actively visit this site regularly or have read the thread at all. The thread itself has 6000 hits so far, but that could be the same 100 people hitting it many times. As far as we know, perhaps only 100-300 people have even opened the thread... maybe less than 1000 people have even visited the entire forum since we posted the thread.

So who knows? To be honest, I was hoping for only 25-30 people to sign up at best. 71 is just fantastic, not to mention the level of profile some of them have inside Cakewalk.

And that's not to mention the broader effect as has been mentioned before of word-of-mouth recommendations from pros who would use a workflow-enhanced version of Sonar on a daily basis. Workflow appeals directly to the pro/enthusiast segment, which ultimately appeals to people who care what pros/enthusiasts think and use... etc... can we possibly quantify the positive ripple effect these types of changes might have on overall sales for Cakewalk?

It's all speculation, in good fun.

But I think what's far more important than any X number of signatures is the fact that this community effort exists at all. The fact that 71 people -- some of them very well-known within the wall of Cakewalk (indeed, I think some of the signatures may raise some eyebrows at Cakewalk) -- could all come together to organize this type of effort and pull it off in a cooperative, supportive and respectful manner with so much information that we agree upon, says quite a bit. It's a very, very strong message, IMO.

In the end, of course it's up to Cakewalk to decide what to do. At least I think it's fair to say, they'll give the effort a good read. And if they want to appeal to *this type* of user -- the type of user who cares enough to put their name on this type of list -- then they'll do something about it. If they do nothing, then at the very least we'll know what type of user they are NOT targeting in their next release.

Best, James

Important Update! Breaking News!

According to the US Postal Service, Cakewalk has taken delivery of our packages. Yes, our letter and "Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List" is now in the hands of our friends at Cakewalk! May Greg, Noel, Alex, Brandon, Carl and Steve give our efforts a good read!

Much thought-provoking discussion is sure to commence with regard to this effort within the walls of Cakewalk HQ, and hopefully some positive action will result!

Starting today, we will also be submitting these feature requests through the formal feature request system. Please feel free to join us by submitting these same feature requests to Cakewalk to continue to raise awareness of these issues. We do not intend to "spam" Cakewalk with this, but rather just show that we support these features.

If you wish to submit this through Cakewalk's feature request system, here is one possible, suggested approach (this is what I just submitted):

Vist the URL for Cakewalk's Feature Request System ( http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/FeatureRequest.asp ) and fill in the following info:

TITLE/DESCRIPTION:

Top 10 Workflow Feature Request List with Broad Support from the Sonar Community

DETAILS:

Thank you for your consideration of the following feature requests.

Please see the following forum thread with the top 10 workflow feature requests: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=1888422

You can also download the feature requests as a PDF document from:

http://www.daw.me/SonarWorkflowTop10Letter.pdf

OR

http://puretone.nl/SonarWorkflowTop10Letter.pdf

The feature requests include the following areas of improvements to Sonar (please see the above thread and/or PDF files for many details):

1 - Arrangement and Editing Environment
2 - Command Access and Customization
3 - Envelopes and Automation
4 - Plug-in Management and Access
5 - Project and Media Management
6 - Video Post and Scoring Enhancements
7 - Universal Track Architecture and Routing Matrix
8 - Synth Rack and Freeze Improvements
9 - Staff View Improvements
10 - Various GUI Enhancements

And then add whatever other info you wish to provide!

-----

Thank you again for all your support! You all have been a pleasure to work with during this effort! I am personally grateful for the fine group of Sonar users that I've met through this process, and for the wealth of ideas and experience that has been shared in this forum over the years. Cakewalk is very lucky indeed to have such a fine group of customers!

Best,
James

UnderTow

I believe that if we could really take the time to explain to every user the type of improvements we are suggesting, the percentage would be much higher. If we reduce it to the pure essence of what we want, "Making music faster and easier", I doubt any sane Sonar user would be against it. In other words, 1,000,000 people support our efforts. We just lacked the time to call them all.

Yeah, but my post had so many more words.

But in all seriousness, I totally agree. That's what this is about... "Making music faster and easier" -- there's a potential marketing line for Cakewalk to seize on for the next release!

Phase 3 is "profit", right?

Beagle

please add my name to the list.  Reece aka Beagle

Awesome, done! Thank you for your support!

Jose7822


Feature Request summited :-)

Phase 2 completed!

Excellent! BTW, just as a note to everyone else, if you decide to submit these features through the Cakewalk Feature Request System (i.e.: see post 249, above), please post about it here! It would be great to hear about it!

eratu

Jose7822


Feature Request summited :-)

Phase 2 completed!

Excellent! BTW, just as a note to everyone else, if you decide to submit these features through the Cakewalk Feature Request System (i.e.: see post 249, above), please post about it here! It would be great to hear about it!

done.

Well, 8.5.2 just released, at least there's that.

LOL

"Making music faster and easier" is ok by me. I don't feel like I deserve to be on any list but you guys are great and have my support...go for it I'm cheering in the background.

If we are speculating, let's do it properly: I believe that if we could really take the time to explain to every user the type of improvements we are suggesting, the percentage would be much higher. If we reduce it to the pure essence of what we want, "Making music faster and easier", I doubt any sane Sonar user would be against it. In other words, 1,000,000 people support our efforts. We just lacked the time to call them all.

Undertow...you all reached me...I see a light


Meno...John Andres` Grande... "Sonar Pro Newbie"

Feature requested posted!



Cut and Paste boys and girls, cut and paste!

ggg

Feature Request submitted.   Thank you for all your suggestions.

Very nicely done.  This is an impressive effort - and thanks for undertaking it.

I definitely agree with the items on the list, and would especially like to see envelopes that don't break down, delete unpredictably, or get out of sync after a "Delete Hole" operation (particularly bus envelopes.

Please add me to the list.  I'll be navigating to the FR page as soon as I post this.

- Russell Graham (RTGraham)
 
EDIT: FR submitted.