Helpful ReplyComparing Sonar with Studio One

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Jeff Evans
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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/02 18:50:35 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby sonarman1 2017/12/03 07:14:17
The pan laws in the mixer are fixed as also if you create a stereo buss, its pan law will also be -3 dB.  The idea is you use Dual Pan to change it in the areas needed.  Might only be one or two. 
 
One way to check how pan laws sound would be to either in a mix or in solo create an automated pan sequence over a cycle of bars e.g. 4 bars.  Panning might start centre, travel left, hold, swing back through centre to the other side and maybe rest back to centre.  The automation could be cut and pasted over a number of cycles.  Then place a part onto that track.  A sequence in electronic music for example would be ideal.  The initial pan centre volume of the part must be set with the mix everything in. And not moving. 
 
Set up Dual Pan on the track and select different pan laws and maybe hear the variations in volume over the sequence cycle. Start by soloing the part and listen to the movement of it through the cycle carefully.  Bring everything else back in and now listen.  I bet with everything in, the pan laws might sound even more pronounced.
 
Some pan laws may cause the part to loose volume in the mix quickly as it moves from centre to its first destination e.g. left.  How the volume of the part hangs in there from a full swing from left to right for example.  Other laws will keep the part volume more audible over longer parts of the cycle.  Some laws may even make the part too loud in some parts of the cycle too.  Meaning then that the overall part level may need to be reset to suit the louder parts of the panning.
 
I love moving things around.  In electronic music it is very powerful and fun thing to do.  If you have got right speaker setup even live it can sound spectacular.  Recently just got the Waves Brauer Motion plugin which does all of this  (and a lot more like setting up two panning motions at once!! This is really something to hear)  It can also create the illusion of the circular panning motion happening around your head. In a very sophicasted manner.  I am sure the tonal response of the signal is also moving in a circular manner too.  
 
There are some very cool plug-ins now that specialise in a lot of spacial movement.  They all install and work perfectly inside Studio One of course.  All their parameters can be easily automated.  Studio One makes it painless to automate every single parameter of every plugin usually including mute on and off too.  Mapping parameters to any of your controller devices is also painless as well.

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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/02 19:44:48 (permalink)
CW3948368110
SylvanI see. Is there a way to change the default pan law overall in Studio One? Or is the -3dB just hard-wired in?
It seems the -3dB is hard-wired, but I´m not 100% sure - I purchased S1 just yesterday.
Anyway it doesn´t matter because you always mix the way you want with new songs in S1 - and you automatically compensate whatever the pan law is without thinking about it. You can also fix minor difference with old songs imported to S1 with M/S eq.


 


Yes indeed. Thank you for that info. 

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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/02 19:46:02 (permalink)
dubdisciple
This ended up being a very informative thread

I learned quite a bit. This was an excellent thread. Many thanks to the OP and apologies for hijacking it. But in the end, it was worth it.

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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/02 19:46:44 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
The pan laws in the mixer are fixed as also if you create a stereo buss, its pan law will also be -3 dB.  The idea is you use Dual Pan to change it in the areas needed.  Might only be one or two. 
 
One way to check how pan laws sound would be to either in a mix or in solo create an automated pan sequence over a cycle of bars e.g. 4 bars.  Panning might start centre, travel left, hold, swing back through centre to the other side and maybe rest back to centre.  The automation could be cut and pasted over a number of cycles.  Then place a part onto that track.  A sequence in electronic music for example would be ideal.  The initial pan centre volume of the part must be set with the mix everything in. And not moving. 
 
Set up Dual Pan on the track and select different pan laws and maybe hear the variations in volume over the sequence cycle. Start by soloing the part and listen to the movement of it through the cycle carefully.  Bring everything else back in and now listen.  I bet with everything in, the pan laws might sound even more pronounced.
 
Some pan laws may cause the part to loose volume in the mix quickly as it moves from centre to its first destination e.g. left.  How the volume of the part hangs in there from a full swing from left to right for example.  Other laws will keep the part volume more audible over longer parts of the cycle.  Some laws may even make the part too loud in some parts of the cycle too.  Meaning then that the overall part level may need to be reset to suit the louder parts of the panning.
 
I love moving things around.  In electronic music it is very powerful and fun thing to do.  If you have got right speaker setup even live it can sound spectacular.  Recently just got the Waves Brauer Motion plugin which does all of this  (and a lot more like setting up two panning motions at once!! This is really something to hear)  It can also create the illusion of the circular panning motion happening around your head. In a very sophicasted manner.  I am sure the tonal response of the signal is also moving in a circular manner too.  
 
There are some very cool plug-ins now that specialise in a lot of spacial movement.  They all install and work perfectly inside Studio One of course.  All their parameters can be easily automated.  Studio One makes it painless to automate every single parameter of every plugin usually including mute on and off too.  Mapping parameters to any of your controller devices is also painless as well.


Thank you Jeff for taking the time to share all this info. Most excellent.

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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/02 23:25:01 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
 
Null testing is also very cool and can be used in other ways too.  Like setting up a compressor.  As you know we have to often set up compressors over individual tracks or mixes. You can set up a parallel path and phase inversion so you only hear sound when the compressor acts on the  signal. When it is not doing anything you will hear silence.  So after setting all this up, you switch all that off and set up your compressor with audio present as per  normal.  But when you switch into the silent mode and only hearing it acting then, if you hear audio coming in and out in a very jerky manner then it means you can set your  compressor better.  Often by just refining your initial settings, you will get much snootier transitions as to how the sound comes in and goes away.  Once you get that nice, when you switch back to normal audio plus compressor operation, you will hear much nicer compression.  It will sound very musical and smooth and locked into the music much more.  More transparent too which we often want. 




Thanks for that Jeff
 
Great thread
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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/03 03:23:06 (permalink)
Yes, great thread... over my head, but great thread!! wink
 
And a shout out to Sylvan also, who had the class to admit he was mistaken... stand up move!
 
Salud all!
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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/05 14:28:02 (permalink)
Quick question, does studio one have a vocal align feature like platinum does? thanks 

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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/05 15:08:47 (permalink)
highlandermak
Quick question, does studio one have a vocal align feature like platinum does? thanks 




Not built in as SONAR has. Studio One offers discounts on the VocalAlign plugin. Please see post #3 in the "Official Sonar to Studio One Help" thread on the Studio One forums which compares SONAR to Studio One.

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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/05 16:56:43 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby cboshuizen 2017/12/11 22:44:48
So... in this thread, people discover maths?
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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/06 14:49:26 (permalink)
Zo
For those that are in a most advanced stage ..... i use ARC and sonarworks and instead of messing with mutiple sub buses ....i found that in the mix down window you can check a box to mix without the master FX ...if you want t also have this feature to update the songs via project view after a tweak in sng view , you have at least to a mixdonw in the song view for this option to be remebered;)
For gain and phase , use Mixtool and expand it in channels ..... 
 
thinking of doing a video for Sonar switcher to make em master the essentials ....
 
it makes me laugh your opinion ... You always believe that what is good for you is good for everyone ... 

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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/12 06:42:51 (permalink)
So am I right in saying S1 has no wave profiler and you can only see buses in the console 

I have empirical evidence this is true... (Bender told me!) 
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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/12 12:05:51 (permalink)
According to the Cakewalk info on the Wave profiler, it is not needed with an ASIO driver.  More than likely you will be running ASIO with Studio One.  And setting up audio interfaces with Studio One is actually pretty easy. 
 
The console will display all tracks, buses and the main stereo buss.  What you can do though is decide what you want to see and what you want to hide.  Which can be handy at times.  There are a form of screen sets for the mixer view for what you are in fact seeing, so you can store the mixer views as presets and call them up quick. 
 
You might have 16 drum tracks feeding a drum buss.  Buses can be set to either all be on the right or allowed to move around so you could have the drum buss right next to the 16 drum tracks.  Then create a mixer view preset that hides all the 16 drum tracks and only shows the drum buss.  Thereby clearing up the mixer view a lot.  Another mixer view preset showing all the 16 drum tracks can then be engaged hence revealing them all in a flash.  Allowing you to edit inserts and sends etc.  Then you could click on the preset that hides them all again. 

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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/12 13:00:58 (permalink)
I always use a master compression fx on the master buss. It is much work setting this up in S1 and Cubase.

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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/12 14:29:19 (permalink)
BENT
and you can only see busses in the console 




yes

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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/12 14:30:46 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby sonarman1 2017/12/13 06:41:17
Oh, what I should add is that, although you cannot see busses in Track View, you can add Buss automation, which is visible in Track View.

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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/12 16:08:44 (permalink)
I'VE DONE quite a few mixes, using automation on the sub busses rather than the individual tracks.
 
if i've recorded correctly,
and my arrangement skills are 'on',
i can do entire mixes with no automation at all.
 
but i really like automated volume/fader controls!
 

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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/12 16:38:57 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
According to the Cakewalk info on the Wave profiler, it is not needed with an ASIO driver.  More than likely you will be running ASIO with Studio One.  And setting up audio interfaces with Studio One is actually pretty easy. 
 
The console will display all tracks, buses and the main stereo buss.  What you can do though is decide what you want to see and what you want to hide.  Which can be handy at times.  There are a form of screen sets for the mixer view for what you are in fact seeing, so you can store the mixer views as presets and call them up quick. 
 
You might have 16 drum tracks feeding a drum buss.  Buses can be set to either all be on the right or allowed to move around so you could have the drum buss right next to the 16 drum tracks.  Then create a mixer view preset that hides all the 16 drum tracks and only shows the drum buss.  Thereby clearing up the mixer view a lot.  Another mixer view preset showing all the 16 drum tracks can then be engaged hence revealing them all in a flash.  Allowing you to edit inserts and sends etc.  Then you could click on the preset that hides them all again. 


I've been playing around with SO3 and I'm really liking it. I like the way you can set up different mixer views, open up track folders in the mix view, etc. I'm just finishing up mixing an album in Sonar, and will then transition over to SO3 for mastering. While I like Sonar, I don't want to have to keep my Music Room computer off-line indefinitely.
 
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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/12 21:35:06 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby sonarman1 2017/12/13 06:41:35
Jarsve
I always use a master compression fx on the master buss. It is much work setting this up in S1 and Cubase.

What is hard about it? Select a compressor and insert it in the master buss! Create a chain in the master buss. Save the whole chain as a preset.  Use the splitter in the master buss and create a complex set up using parallel and serial signal paths. Save it is a setup. All very sweet and easy.

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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/12 21:56:10 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
...
Use the splitter in the master buss
...

 
Did you say splitter? Holy cow, Jeff, you just made my day!

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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/12 22:04:15 (permalink)
Yes check this out:
 
http://beyondcakewalk.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=448
 
Each channel/track can have a whole complex signal path setup and various Fx and things used in each path. Splitters can be added as many as you want.  Sonar had nothing like this as far as I know.
 
You can also layer and effect many synths too on one track as well.

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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/12 22:40:28 (permalink)
That is so cool, it is beyond-Cakewalk cool.
 
Also, I just signed up on BeyondCakewalk. I'm toneranger over there.

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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/12 23:17:19 (permalink)
Does Studio One have Track Folders? If it does, do they work the same Sonar's Track Folders?



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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/12 23:22:44 (permalink)
Yes of course Folders are the go. Not sure how Sonar folders work but a group of tracks can be selected and a folder created for them. 
 
Tracks outside folders can be easily dragged into them.  Likewise tracks inside a folder can be dragged out.  A folder can be muted and soled just like a track.  Folders can be coloured the same as tracks or a different colour to the tracks.
 
They are great for making a huge mix look much more manageable. 

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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/12 23:54:35 (permalink)
and you can create a bus for the folder, which includes all tracks in the folder and routes the output of all tracks to the bus.  Folders works in console as well.  Studio One handles folders very well.  Maybe better than Sonar.
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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/13 00:23:00 (permalink)
Thanks to all who have been sharing their knowledge about Studio One. There's also a lot of good information in this thread

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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/13 01:01:34 (permalink)
thanks for the reply's 
 

I have empirical evidence this is true... (Bender told me!) 
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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/13 01:03:12 (permalink)
Anyone know of a DAW where you  can see busses in Track View like Sonar
 
thanks
 

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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/13 08:56:30 (permalink)
If I download and try out the Studio One Demo, is it easy to uninstall when I'm done with it? Does it uninstall cleanly?



ROD

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Jeff Evans
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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/13 09:22:07 (permalink)
Yes but this article will make sure:
 
https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/studio-one//how-to-completely-remove-studio-one-windows
 
Just remember the demo is a far cry from the Pro Version but it will still get you acquainted with a lot of its workflow and general layout and features. 
 
Even if you decide to run with the Pro version it will installed in a separate folder to the demo so having the demo on there won't be an issue. But for peace of mind do the complete un-install and then install the full version.

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denverdrummer
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Re: Comparing Sonar with Studio One 2017/12/13 19:46:08 (permalink)
rodreb
If I download and try out the Studio One Demo, is it easy to uninstall when I'm done with it? Does it uninstall cleanly?




Get the Revo uninstaller, it's a freeware product and will perform deep registry scans to remove any trace of any program that leaves behind artifacts through the normal Windows uninstall method.  Just go to revouninstaller.com

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