Anderton
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 11:13:59
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lfm
Maybe an intermediate fix even between regular periods - showing extra concern about the matter.
There were a couple of those early on, so it's possible. But as you allude to based on your professional experience, there are always tradeoffs. In this case, people who want instant bug fixes are at odds with those who want more time spent on testing.
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Doktor Avalanche 
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 11:14:06
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John
It would help greatly if we all stopped using terms we know nothing about in trying to make a point when all that really happens with their use is confusion and making things unclear. If however when a term is introduced explaining it in detail might make its use productive.
Or why not just google it if you don't know. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_testing This is central to the issue. Why should I stop talking about it just because you don't know about it? Look it up or start another thread.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/05/31 11:20:37
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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John
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 11:21:21
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Doktor Avalanche
John
It would help greatly if we all stopped using terms we know nothing about in trying to make a point when all that really happens with their use is confusion and making things unclear. If however when a term is introduced explaining it in detail might make its use productive.
Or why not just google it if you don't know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_testing
This is central to the issue. Why should I stop talking about it just because you don't know about it? Look it up or start another thread.
Because I don't think you know what it is in the sense of how CW does it. Of course you will say you do.
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Kylotan
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 11:23:18
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☄ Helpfulby jatoth 2015/05/31 12:01:11
Anderton
There were a couple of those early on, so it's possible. But as you allude to based on your professional experience, there are always tradeoffs. In this case, people who want instant bug fixes are at odds with those who want more time spent on testing. That's mischaracterising the problem. Sometimes software gets released in a slightly broken form, and bug fixes take time. But they should not be breaking new things when those fixes are released. (That's the 'regression' people are talking about.) We will never get 'instant' bug fixes - in fact, there are several bugs I've reported over the years that just don't seem to get fixed at all. Others have taken months. It's not ideal, but it's ok. What's not ok is every release to look like "20 bug fixes! (5 of which were fixes for things we broke last time. Plus, here are 5 new bugs.)" It wouldn't have been acceptable in the days of paying just once, because Sonar would have got a reputation for leaving their software in an unreliable state. But now that we have the membership, people are being more lenient because they assume it'll just get fixed later. And that is not a positive step.
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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Anderton
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 11:25:01
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Doktor Avalanche
Last release there were issues with track templates which got fixed in this release (haven't tested but feedback in problem reports forum looks good). This release issues with drum maps in templates were fixed which broke projects.
So I'm left with a choice as to which I have to cope with (or roll back further and cope with another issue).
If the bakers concentrated on one specific area for improving work flow and bug fixing, then I will know what release to avoid. For instance if one single release fixed the signal path for drum maps, fixed drum maps in Sonar templates, and launched an improved drum map UI, I know that release is probably worth avoiding for that month because there will be regression issues, but at least it will be probably be all over and done the next month.
The bottom line isn't about a specific bug. There were regression bugs in the yearly model, there are regression bugs in the monthly model, there will be regression bugs no matter what model is adopted because humans are involved. The bottom line is about whether on balance the new model is better than the old one. Per your point, of course there could be several ways to tweak the model, like your suggestion of having one release be "fix all drum map issues." But the irony is some drum map issues weren't fixed under the yearly model. Now they're being addressed, and I suspect that has a lot to do with the adoption of the monthly model. (And as pointed out, it seems there's a workaround for the current problem while we wait for a more elegant solution.) .
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 11:26:50
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As a bystander I must admit that to me it seems 30-50% of SONAR forum posts have recently been related to
problems with these additions mentioned. One day, a few weeks ago, I just noticed I have no clue of what people are writing about. Only a few threads here and there were something I could perhaps participate.
That sure doesn't make it tempting to move from good old, safe 8.5. ( Ok, maybe I'm just bitter for not having the
means to upgrade my gear :o/ )
SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre - Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc. The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 11:30:56
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Kalle I suppose then I shouldn't break the news to you about the hundreds of bugs 8.5 has, that were fixed in subsequent releases :) Our bug database doesn't lie.
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ralf
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 11:36:08
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Anderton: Stating that the initial release of X3 was also premature without doing enough testing is not really the best excuse for doing not enough testing now. And it misses the point that monthly releases inherently don't allow in depth testing of the full system for time reasons.
For X3, all future bug fixes were included in the initial price, for the membership model only bug fixes for a limited time are included. As pointed out before by others, a bug introduced in the last month I payed for, may not be fixed without paying again, even if it is a show stopper. But sure, once I paid for a software, I'm at the grace of the developpers if they fix something or not, no matter what release model is used.
The very problem of the new model is that there is no drive for a final stable version. Obviously, because there is no such thing like a final version.
lfm: Would be nice to have a confirmation for my problem. Seems no-one else reported it, but hardly anyone looked at that thread anyway.
In total, the question is always how much effort is put into doing new features - which is important to get new customers - and how much into doing bug fixes (be it for stability or usability) to keep existing customers. Unfortunately, market mechanisms favour the first over the second, because existing customers often stick to their initial decision for various reasons like not wanting to pay for or learning another software.
I hope Cakewalk will find a way to do their membership model in a way that favours stability and usability over new features. As a customer, I don't want to install updates each month just to test if it works better for me than the last release or not.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 11:38:34
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☄ Helpfulby Kamikaze 2015/05/31 12:29:50
John
It would help greatly if we all stopped using terms we know nothing about in trying to make a point when all that really happens with their use is confusion and making things unclear. If however when a term is introduced explaining it in detail might make its use productive.
Doktor Avalanche
Or why not just google it if you don't know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_testing
This is central to the issue. Why should I stop talking about it just because you don't know about it? Look it up or start another thread.
John
Because I don't think you know what it is in the sense of how CW does it. Of course you will say you do.
??? You want to turn this into how to do regression tests topic? The only thing I (and everybody else should) care about is Cakewalk doing effective regression testing. What you are writing is a total distraction to what I was actually talking about... You've found a buzzword and now decided to concentrate on that.
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Anderton
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 11:42:42
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Kylotan
It wouldn't have been acceptable in the days of paying just once, because Sonar would have got a reputation for leaving their software in an unreliable state.
You're forgetting that when doing the yearly releases, SONAR did have a reputation for being unreliable. Have you already forgotten about the shape X1 and X2 were in immediately upon their release? Or Alex's dozens of bug threads dominating the front page when X3 was released (which were one of the main reasons those bugs got fixed)? That reputation finally started turning around after five months of X3 updates, and the progress made during those five months was one of the reasons for looking into a model that would allow bug fixing to continue every month. Furthermore, there have been tons of posts from people who find Platinum much more stable than even X3. I am one of those. I work with SONAR virtually every day, and have a basis of comparison that stretches back to the original SONAR in 2000. There is no doubt that based on the work I do, Platinum is by far the most stable version of SONAR yet. Also I question your estimate of 25% of fixes in a release being devoted to fixing bugs caused by previous releases. I haven't seen that percentage is any of the bug release lists so far.
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John
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 11:44:16
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No Alex I was simply making an observation.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 11:47:39
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☄ Helpfulby Kamikaze 2015/05/31 12:30:59
It is however a distraction.. Moving on...
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charlyg
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 11:53:25
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i'm a noob here, and i am on cw's side. i was a desktop tech on both pc's and mac's until retiring 3 years ago. i have seen all kinds of issues with software over the years, and out of all of them, I prefer this new model.
YOU HAVE A CHOICE NOW. Don't blame CW, because you made one that wasn't the wisest for your situation. Change to the model that works for you every 30 days, once a year, quarterly, whatever....... they have no idea what works best for your particular situation. i just make simple rock n roll music. sorry it seems both shift keys went south. been using cap lock but got tired of it.....
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 11:59:34
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Anderton
So if there's some major bug one month that kills workflow for you, roll back or don't install and wait a month until it's fixed.
Doktor AvalancheYup you decide which regression bugs you want to live with, it's a feature.
Anderton
It's an improvement compared to having a year's worth of bugs rolled into a yearly release, at which point you have to either live with all of them, or none of them by not using the new version. Yearly releases had regression bugs too.
That's stating the obvious and I'm talking about now. All software has regression bugs especially after fixes and enhancements. I was discussing about limiting them to specific areas (by concentrating releases on specific areas) and having a regular stabilization release for regression bugs only. I don't have an issue with monthly release cycle. My full points were made earlier.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/05/31 12:19:35
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jeff oliver
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 12:03:54
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I see the OP concerns. This new model works for some better than others. Studios work with clients over several months so starting a project in "Braintree" and having to finish it in "London" can be tricky. But I don't see it changing for the few. Who can say if an update later will crash their system seriously? And you won't know if the system is stable for you until you update. So far its ok with me. Just a few hiccups here and there. Hope his problem gets solved. Peace.
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jatoth
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 12:08:20
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Anderton
You're forgetting that when doing the yearly releases, SONAR did have a reputation for being unreliable. Have you already forgotten about the shape X1 and X2 were in immediately upon their release?
Solely the fault of "marketing" driving the release process. Why did we NEED three X versions? Because "fixing" the first two wasn't profitable. The problem is with the bean counters. Marketing = revenue Development = expenditures The short sighted nature of most corporate software houses.
John X3e Producer, Sonar Platinum, Sweetwater CreationStation i5 3.1gHz, 12 GB RAM, 500GB SSD OS drive, 1TB SSD audio drive, 1TB archive/misc drive, dual 22" monitors, Windows 7x64, SaffirePro40 (firewire), MOTU MIDI Express XT, Behringer BCF2000, dbx 586, Samson Servo 120a, Yamaha HS80M, Auratone 5c Cubes, Sennheiser HD650, Sony MDR 7509HD, Sony MDR 7506, Kurzweil K2500XS, Roland XP-30, Proteus 2000.
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mudgel
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 12:18:25
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So you decide to upgrade from X3. You're a professional with clients that rely on your work. Do you take the chance with a new program every month? Or do you decide to come up with a plan that gives you the best chance of making use of new features yet safe enough to not put your client's work at risk. Or do you stay with a thoroughly tested and stable version and find a way to test the new version without putting your clients work at risk.
There's no point in blaming Cakewalk for the decision you make.
If the arguments about needing longer testing and one month is not long enough too much pressure blah blah blah then Platinum Alston, the first release should have been the most stable because it had been worked on longer than a year. For that matter very programs first release should be its best, and we know that's not true.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Anderton
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 12:28:19
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jatoth
Anderton
You're forgetting that when doing the yearly releases, SONAR did have a reputation for being unreliable. Have you already forgotten about the shape X1 and X2 were in immediately upon their release?
Solely the fault of "marketing" driving the release process. Why did we NEED three X versions?
Because "fixing" the first two wasn't profitable. The problem is with the bean counters.
Marketing = revenue
Development = expenditures
The short sighted nature of most corporate software houses.
X3 was a better program than X2, which was a better program than X1. That's why we needed three versions. X3 did not just fall out of the sky. It required significant development costs to integrate features like ARA and VST3, let alone all the other features, as well as the cost of licensing programs like Melodyne. Without more resources (i.e., charging more for the software), it is not possible to continue fixing bugs in older versions for extended periods of time while simultaneously developing new features that the market demands - don't you remember all the requests for VST3 integration, and the issues people were having with V-Vocal? If enough was charged for software to cover more or less indefinite bug fixes regardless of what happens in the rest of the world (new standards, OS changes, etc.), the price would be prohibitive. Then people would complain about the cost, because a lot of folks don't seem to realize that "free" bug fixes are never free. They are factored into the costs of software. So you have a choice, because you can't do both: Keep polishing older versions until they become so out of sync with the rest of the world they become outdated anyway, or move forward and develop newer versions that remain competitive with a software world that works pretty much the same way Cakewalk does. It's easy to hope that somehow, Cakewalk can exempt itself from the rules that govern this industry, our economic system in general, and the conflicting needs of different consumers ("Faster bug fixes!" "No, more testing!" "Add a Chord Track feature!" "I don't want new features, concentrate on core stability!" "I couldn't care less about the content!" "The content is great, I use it all the time!"). They are not immune to those rules so they must make tradeoffs. Cakewalk chooses the tradeoffs that according to user surveys, forum comments, and reviews would appear to benefit the greatest percentage of the customer base.
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John
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 12:42:30
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I hate to break it to you all but Sonar will always have bugs. This is between you and me only. Don't spread it around.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 12:57:39
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Anderton
You're forgetting that when doing the yearly releases, SONAR did have a reputation for being unreliable. Have you already forgotten about the shape X1 and X2 were in immediately upon their release?
Yup I think it's time to be honest here. The reason why the product is in the situation is now is because of the huge amount of bugs that were not tackled in past releases. Cakewalk under Gibson have demonstrated in Platinum that they are overcoming this situation pretty well but they are still playing catch up and it might be another year+. These are the facts we all have to deal with. At this stage whatever cakewalk does there will be disruption, it has to happen, otherwise if they were to carry on like the Roland days there will be a lot more of it and the fire will get more out of control. The big question is now... can it be minimised and fires be contained so everybody has a good chance knowing where they are? and when to avoid them? Will we be able to make sure that whilst we avoid the fire, we don't make the mistake of crawling back into the old blaze by rolling back? That situation needs improvement from my perception.
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FCCfirstclass
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 12:58:15
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John
I hate to break it to you all but Sonar will always have bugs. This is between you and me only. Don't spread it around.
Very true John, as does EVERY OTHER DAW.
Win 10 Pro x64, 32Gb DDR3 ram, Sonar Platinum, Cubase 9.5, Mackie MCU Pro, Cakewalk VS 100, Roland Octa-Capture, A 800 Pro, Carver M-1.5t amp & C4000 pre amp, various mics, drums and brass instruments. And away we go!
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Scoot
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 13:05:30
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John
I hate to break it to you all but Sonar will always have bugs. This is between you and me only. Don't spread it around.
Are you purposely trying to contribute nothing to this discussion? Because it's twice now!
HP ENVY Notebook - 15t-k100 CTO i7 -4510U CPU @ 2.00 GHZ 8gb RAM. Windows 8.1 64bit Full HD Touchscreen Sonar X3 Producer, AAS Complete set, XLN AD Keys and Drums, TH2 Roland Quad Capture, AudioTeckina 3035 Mic and ATH-M50 Headphones. Korg Nanopad2, WX5 Midi Sax, , Soprano Sax, Alto and Soprano Flute, Acoustic Guitar and Epiphone Dot Scoot not scook
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 13:07:57
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Nothing like watering down threads with really obvious statements which we hear time in and time out, to detract from the actual topic. Gun owners might be familiar with the concept.
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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Kylotan
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 13:21:34
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Anderton
You're forgetting that when doing the yearly releases, SONAR did have a reputation for being unreliable. Have you already forgotten about the shape X1 and X2 were in immediately upon their release? Or Alex's dozens of bug threads dominating the front page when X3 was released (which were one of the main reasons those bugs got fixed)? Well, sure. I skipped X1 and X2 entirely, although that was as much to do with the fact that I had no interest in their headline new feature, the Skylight interface that I have mostly coerced back into looking like Sonar 8.5. But I digress. But I was using earlier versions of Sonar regularly, and Cakewalk Pro Audio before that (and whatever they called the version before that which was MIDI only), and while there were certainly small problems, there was nothing on the scale of recent releases. Every version I installed up to 8.5 (and X3e after it) worked out of the box with the patches available online, with no workarounds needed. Furthermore, there have been tons of posts from people who find Platinum much more stable than even X3. I am one of those Credit where it's due, Sonar is now more stable than ever before, for me also. (Where 'ever before' means 'since Sonar 6' or thereabouts.) Crashes on shutdown, crashes on project load, hangs on saving... they're a thing of the past. But now it's features going wrong. MIDI notes disappearing, views strangely changing, drum maps ceasing to play anything back, etc. Also I question your estimate of 25% of fixes in a release being devoted to fixing bugs caused by previous releases. I haven't seen that percentage is any of the bug release lists so far. It wasn't meant to be an estimate, but an indication that (a) I am not going to be impressed with long lists of bug fixes if a bunch of them are bugs they only just introduced recently, and (b) I am not going to be impressed with any bug fixes if they're just adding new and different ones.
post edited by Kylotan - 2015/05/31 13:37:21
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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Kylotan
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 13:30:04
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mudgel
(...cut a lot of irrelevant stuff...)
There's no point in blaming Cakewalk for the decision you make. This is nothing to do with doing work for external clients or anything like that. The fact at the moment is: I pay for software, and the quality of the software in the areas that matter to me has dropped since the previous version. I am voicing my concern with that so that they are aware of my dissatisfaction. What they choose to do with the knowledge is up to them but there's no chance of anything happening if nobody speaks up. If the arguments about needing longer testing and one month is not long enough too much pressure blah blah blah then Platinum Alston, the first release should have been the most stable because it had been worked on longer than a year. For that matter very programs first release should be its best, and we know that's not true.
No, because that is not how software development like this works. They don't write a whole new version of the software every month. Usually the software improves over a series of patches because gradually new bugs are found and removed. Each version has the benefit of the previous year (or whatever) of development, plus additional testing and maintenance. That's what we saw with X3 to X3e. Unfortunately, that's not what we seem to be seeing with Platinum - there might be some underlying quality measure that is going up but on the surface common features seem to be breaking more than before - features that have had many years of work on them such as drum maps. And that shouldn't be happening.
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 13:41:45
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I don't think though the solution is to go back to X3 release cycle, the solution is to improve the exisiting monthly cycle to concentrate disruption in specific areas whilst improvements are made. And there's little doubt cakewalk's regression testing needs improvement looking at the recent and rather obvious drum map bug. All this is doable....
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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Anderton
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 13:53:25
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Kylotan
But I was using earlier versions of Sonar regularly, and Cakewalk Pro Audio before that (and whatever they called the version before that which was MIDI only), and while there were certainly small problems, there was nothing on the scale of recent releases. It was a different and much simpler world in terms of the permutations and combinations of computer systems, additional software loaded on to hard drives, sizes of projects, hardware options, operating systems, shift in focus of computers and the experience computer manufacturers want to deliver to consumers, etc. As Noel has noted, changes in the Microsoft OS itself are what exposed issues in loading older 32-bit programs with BitBridge. No way BitBridge could have anticipated what changes Microsoft was going to make five or more years into the future. Apple deciding arbitrarily to change how FireWire worked is why some Universal Audio hardware products aren't compatible with the new cylinder Mac. So what do UA users with the new computers do? I guess spray paint the card, and put it up on their wall as artwork. I have said for years that depending on computers to create music will become only more complex and problematic in the years ahead, as system options continue to multiply on a seemingly exponential basis. Even a situation where a company like Apple - that has virtually unlimited resources and controls hardware (desktop OS and iOS devices), operating systems, and even the applications - has to do regular bug fixes. There have been a lot more bug fixes early on with iOS 8 than with iOS 7, and more with Yosemite than Mavericks. Get used to it... This is why Cakewalk's decision to allow users to keep software and freeze their systems at whatever point they want was a brilliant, and I believe totally underappreciated, move because it recognizes that the computing environment is becoming more and more of a moving target. I use removable hard drives, and I have an XP hard drive that's loaded with things that no longer work with Windows 7. It would truly suck if those programs died and I had to keep paying renewal costs indefinitely to keep them going, only to find out at some point they simply would not work. I'm pretty sure than when Windows 10 comes out, I'm going to remove my Windows 7 drive, put it on the shelf for when it's needed, insert a fresh drive (BTW, don't research the latest figures on hard drive longevity if you want to sleep peacefully at night - the average drives lasts longer than ever, but early failures are more common than ever before), install Windows 10, install the latest version of SONAR and whatever will still work with 10, and carry on from there.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 13:56:35
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Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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mudgel
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 13:58:05
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I'm sorry but what you're saying is not backed up by what's happening. Even the drum maps that you keep going on about are not broken as you suggest. There a one step work around.
I disagree that we're seeing anything different when it comes to testing, because we don't see the testing. All the emotion in this thread and ones like it is based on what people think, on speculation but not on what they know. I don't understand when people who are in the know explain thing and you still don't accept them. Well that's your choice, but the Sonar I use is very stable. I'm happy enough to work around any issues that are not yet fixed.
Everyone from Cakewlak who has contributed in this thread has acknowledged that it could be better and they're working at it very well in my experience. I'm sure they appreciate you pointing out problems as they arise. No doubt you fill in bug reports and problem reports in an effort to get things fixed.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 14:02:01
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Yup it's all hearsay! It doesn't exist!!! Look there's an albatross over there..!
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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