Kylotan
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Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
Okay, we're 5 mini-versions in to the new model, and I'm concerned. Yes, we've seen bug fixes each time, some great ones. But we're also seeing new bugs being shipped each time. Several that affected me: 1) Drum Maps started dropping notes back in March: http://forum.cakewalk.com/Random-missing-MIDI-notes-m3190061.aspx 2) The Dorchester update seemed to do weird things with certain MIDI events, eg. playing a very short extra note before starting to play back a clip. Seems to be fixed now in Everett. 3) Everett has broken Drum Maps again - either losing the output assignment for some people, or just not playing anything back at all for me. http://forum.cakewalk.com...rum-maps-m3230072.aspx4) Slip-editing linked clips seems to break (although maybe this is an old bug, since it seems familiar) http://forum.cakewalk.com/Slip-edit-moving-things-wrongly-m3230458.aspx So right now, each month I get a bunch of new content (none of which I use, to be frank) and a 50% chance of a program-breaking bug that may not get fixed for another month. It doesn't inspire a lot of confidence and today the first chance I got at writing music for quite some time has been completely ruined by Everett not being able to play my drum VSTi. This is not what I want from a DAW and I hope that Cakewalk are going to reflect on their QA process and make sure they're not just shipping new bugs each month (and then getting the credit for fixing them later).
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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ralf
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/30 18:11:20
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I totally agree with OP. It is never good for software to have fixed release schedules. Software should be released when it reaches a stable state and passes all testing, not because there is a trade fair or because it is end of month. I don't need a new version of Sonar each month, I prefer having a stable Sonar all time. New features and additional content may be nice to have, but having a stable version is essential to work with the software.
Even the monthly payment schedule is no reason for monthly updates. The price is mainly for using the software, not for getting something new each month. (Sure, after 12 months, a month without an update could be seen as paying for nothing for monthly subscribers, but this could be handled by separating content releases and software updates, where content is monthly, but software when it is stable.)
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/30 18:18:57
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We will look into this issue. I'm not convinced yet that it was indeed introduced in Everett however. There were at least 2 drum map issues including crashes that *were* fixed in Everett. Keep in mind that sometimes a fix can expose a preexisting issue so its not always black and white. Everett was fully regression tested a week before release, so it had nothing to do with releasing because it was the end of the month. No company no matter how big can test every possible use case of the software and sometimes issues can slip through the cracks. Overall in Everett we fixed 40 user reported bugs including at least another 30 internally reported issues that we do not list in the bug fixes. I think that's a pretty good ratio of issues resolved in a month by any standards. Its always possible that a new issue may present itself - its the nature of software development. Keep in mind that in the old model when we released once a year, there was a way higher probability that you could get *several* new issues since there were hundreds of fixes and other changes included. From an engineering point of view there is no question that the new model has way more reliability and a faster turnaround as well.
post edited by Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] - 2015/05/30 18:29:47
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Anderton
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/30 20:14:14
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Kylotan
Each month I get a bunch of new content (none of which I use, to be frank)
Don't know if you're tried the Sizzle Bus, but you might find it pretty useful.
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icontakt
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/30 22:07:27
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If I'm not mistaken, #1 was fixed (in Dorchester or Cambridge). The waveforms moving after slip-editing isn't a new bug, as I've just explained in the thread.
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Vastman
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 01:40:08
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Ralf, your point is invalid. The beauty of the monthly releases is whatever is ready is released. You're impuning things are rushed and not thoroughly tested. I say baloney... if it's ready, release...if not, push to next month. This model is superior to the old way by far. If 40 bugs are fixed and one or two new ones occur, I'm good with that. Plus, it's obviouse and can be corrected quick... as per your post. Every version has been better for me. I love what's been happening. Just look at the list. Sorry if a favorite bug hasn't got the treatment yet, but timely fixes are great. Kylotan... Oy! I think Noel said it eloquently. And tweaking little niggles every month rather than a yearly explosion of joy and anger is far superior. Your logic is just shortsighted. If several bugs relating to the Drum Maps have been solved, it's way better than waiting another year. And thus far, this seems to be the only new issue on the table. Compare that to the yearly releases. I would imagine it's 99 to 1 staying in the current paradigm as oppose to favoring the former.
post edited by Vastman - 2015/05/31 01:56:07
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KPerry
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 02:19:53
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And do remember that if a problem in a new version does bite you, at least it's painless to roll back a version: Cakewalk haven't made you use the latest downloaded (which is much appreciated, I'm sure, for cases like yours).
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Vastman
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 02:51:36
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Great point, KPerry! all those prior fixes are still good....and catch up next month if need be! And surfacing that new/current bug highlights it for rapid response! 50 steps forward, 1 or 2 back... is a lot of forward!
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mudgel
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 04:51:09
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To those who are worried about monthly updates and stability and testing whatever.
You could always stay with the version you're happy with. Say X3e and upgrade when you feel the feature set and stability are right for you. Also you don't have to update every month. It's a choice.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 05:07:38
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Kylotan
Okay, we're 5 mini-versions in to the new model, and I'm concerned. Yes, we've seen bug fixes each time, some great ones. But we're also seeing new bugs being shipped each time.
When I first heard about the new subscription model and the monthly updates, my initial thoughts were "no way I want to update every month" and "new problems every month" ... and promptly with Braintree I ran into problems and thought "yeah, there you have it" ... However, meanwhile I am fully convinced and very impressed how it actually works: 40+ fixes each month (all documented, so you know what you get), all very stable releases, never had to roll back ... and what I like best: a very open and problem-solving attitude here in the forum with Cakewalk taking part actively, which leads to fast fixes in the next release or the one after ... so it's definitely not 5 mini-versions for me.
GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER +++ Visit the Rehab +++ DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600 Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture) Control-Surface: VS-700C VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really)
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BENT
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 05:36:51
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Kylotan
Okay, we're 5 mini-versions in to the new model, and I'm concerned. Yes, we've seen bug fixes each time, some great ones. But we're also seeing new bugs being shipped each time.
3) Everett has broken Drum Maps again - either losing the output assignment for some people, or just not playing anything back at all for me. http://forum.cakewalk.com...rum-maps-m3230072.aspx
4) Slip-editing linked clips seems to break (although maybe this is an old bug, since it seems familiar) http://forum.cakewalk.com/Slip-edit-moving-things-wrongly-m3230458.aspx
Great!!! I was going to update to Everett tonight but now will not, maybe "NOT EVER" this is the very thing that concerned me about the new release system. One has to question if it is a improvement or a step backwards. Yes I know I can roll back, but I don't have time to waste. At least with the old system I could wait months before updating to the latest release to make sure the features that are critical for my personal needs are stable. Now it's like Ground Hog Day the cycle resets to new release and uncertainness every month. Kylotan
So right now, each month I get a bunch of new content (none of which I use, to be frank) and a 50% chance of a program-breaking bug that may not get fixed for another month. It doesn't inspire a lot of confidence and today the first chance I got at writing music for quite some time has been completely ruined by Everett not being able to play my drum VSTi. This is not what I want from a DAW and I hope that Cakewalk are going to reflect on their QA process and make sure they're not just shipping new bugs each month (and then getting the credit for fixing them later).
+ 1000
I have empirical evidence this is true... (Bender told me!)  Cakewalk by BandLab, Splat and other DAW's PC = Win 10 64 Bit, i7 3770, 16Gb RAM, 256GB Samsung 2.5’ 840 PRO SATA6GB/s SSD 1, and 2 x 2Tb Internal, Monitors = 2 24” Samsung SA450 and 1 20” Dele Edirol = Octa-Capture-UA1010, Quad-Capture-UA55, PCR-500, Berringer 2 x FBC 1010 Alesis Control Pad KRK monitors
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Kylotan
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 05:39:42
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
We will look into this issue. I'm not convinced yet that it was indeed introduced in Everett however. It was introduced in Everett. We were using drum maps perfectly fine a few days ago, and now we can't. There were at least 2 drum map issues including crashes that *were* fixed in Everett. Doesn't matter if we can't use them at all. Overall in Everett we fixed 40 user reported bugs including at least another 30 internally reported issues that we do not list in the bug fixes. I think that's a pretty good ratio of issues resolved in a month by any standards. Its always possible that a new issue may present itself - its the nature of software development. New issues tend to present themselves when you add new features or functionality. If you concentrate on bug fixes, this is less likely. Software is tricky, but it's not impossible to push a release that has no extra bugs. From an engineering point of view there is no question that the new model has way more reliability and a faster turnaround as well. Sadly I am not an engineer on your project so I don't see these benefits - just the different bugs every month.
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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Kylotan
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 05:42:25
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Vastman
Kylotan... Oy! I think Noel said it eloquently. And tweaking little niggles every month rather than a yearly explosion of joy and anger is far superior. With a yearly release, there is more time to test new features and make sure things are going well, but more importantly, more pressure to make sure it works. Now, there's a real feeling of "ship it, and if it's broken, just fix it for next month". Your logic is just shortsighted. If several bugs relating to the Drum Maps have been solved, it's way better than waiting another year. WE CURRENTLY CANNOT USE THE DRUM MAPS AT ALL. That makes the software almost entirely useless to me, and worse than every other release of Sonar I can recall in all the time I've used it.
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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Kylotan
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 05:44:02
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mudgel
To those who are worried about monthly updates and stability and testing whatever.
You could always stay with the version you're happy with. Say X3e and upgrade when you feel the feature set and stability are right for you. Also you don't have to update every month. It's a choice.
My point is that the stability does not seem to be improving at all. When X3 came out, you could wait until X3e and that was almost undeniably more robust than X3. Now, it's a churning situation of bugs coming in and bugs going out, with it being almost pot-luck as to whether any monthly release is better or worse than the ones before it (new content aside).
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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Kylotan
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 05:45:01
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KPerry
And do remember that if a problem in a new version does bite you, at least it's painless to roll back a version: Cakewalk haven't made you use the latest downloaded (which is much appreciated, I'm sure, for cases like yours).
Yeah, I could roll back... and get back the bugs that were freshly introduced for Dorchester. It's not great.
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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BENT
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 05:46:08
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Well said Kylotan
With respect Nole, not many end users are overly concerned about the eloquence of the code. We just want it to work so we can make music
I have empirical evidence this is true... (Bender told me!) Cakewalk by BandLab, Splat and other DAW's PC = Win 10 64 Bit, i7 3770, 16Gb RAM, 256GB Samsung 2.5’ 840 PRO SATA6GB/s SSD 1, and 2 x 2Tb Internal, Monitors = 2 24” Samsung SA450 and 1 20” Dele Edirol = Octa-Capture-UA1010, Quad-Capture-UA55, PCR-500, Berringer 2 x FBC 1010 Alesis Control Pad KRK monitors
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mudgel
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 06:24:45
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Kylotan
mudgel
To those who are worried about monthly updates and stability and testing whatever.
You could always stay with the version you're happy with. Say X3e and upgrade when you feel the feature set and stability are right for you. Also you don't have to update every month. It's a choice.
My point is that the stability does not seem to be improving at all. When X3 came out, you could wait until X3e and that was almost undeniably more robust than X3. Now, it's a churning situation of bugs coming in and bugs going out, with it being almost pot-luck as to whether any monthly release is better or worse than the ones before it (new content aside).
I can only say that I've found every version to be slightly smoother than the one before. At least it feels that way. The bugs I've encountered I've been able to work around. One of Sonar's strengths is that it presents several ways to do a particular thing. I only had one issue not directly Sonar related but the Cakewalk store backend and that's behind us now. Generally I think I'm a heavy Sonar user with lots of tracks, routing, fx plugins, VSTIs. I do lots of experimenting so it's not like my workflow insulates me from Sonar's bugs. BUT no show stoppers and that's the main thing.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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lfm
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 06:31:31
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I don't blame the monthly updates at all for these inconveniences mentioned in OP.
It's more to do with how developers work as a team.
Checking out a class for whatever versioning system does not make the changes come in next release unless ready and tested and checked in again.
And if this code is not fully tested, it can be excluded by inserting switches in code - governed when to activate, when it's actually tested and ready for release.
And devs need to syncronize if they are working on the same class - usually handled when a checkin is made, by merging code. But testing of that class really need to be tested by both working on that code before release. If not doing the latter - you might get current result that new bugs are introduced by fixes.
The possible flaw in events regarding this - does not improve by just increasing intervals for release.
But maybe cut out some fixes for a release until fully tested - that a fix does not backfire.
Use code switches that are not removed until fully tested - so they don't interfere with other fixes.
Somebody with the overall knowledge of Sonar as a system need to govern this - can this fix alter behavior in other areas and inflict on that.
How Cakewalk is taking care of CWBR and categorising these, finding mutual cause of problems etc - and putting on todo list - and also fixing problems - is an internal problem at Cakewalk not to do with release intervals, as I see it.
Cakewalk improved a lot the last five years - and there is no doubt they are always working on to improve.
And maybe the heat is on to make a certain length of a fix list each month.
But this monthly release model is rather new - and is sure they will alter how they do things to improve.
I absolutely love this new model of working and releasing. I'm most likely to benefit not having to experience many bugs because of it.
I mean each bug usually introduce some hours of narrowing down and finding a workaround and multiply that by each fix made each month and then multiply by users of Sonar - that is many manhours saved.
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Kamikaze
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 06:37:37
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What if was a possible 'b' release, there was one in Braintree, that dealt with an introduced issue. So any new bugs that are picked up are addressed before the new months release. So if 3 bugs are found that are new monthly release, these are treated as a priority and a update just for these is provided. If a change has revealed a bigger issue, then maybe this on of the three is left until the next month, but the other two are sorted. Making each release more rubust.
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lfm
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 06:39:01
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Kamikaze
What if was a possible 'b' release, there was one in Braintree, that dealt with an introduced issue. So any new bugs that are picked up are addressed before the new months release. So if 3 bugs are found that are new monthly release, these are treated as a priority and a update just for these is provided. If a change has revealed a bigger issue, then maybe this on of the three is left until the next month, but the other two are sorted. Making each release more rubust.
Really good idea....
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Doktor Avalanche 
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 08:27:52
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If you fix drum maps in templates, it does not take a genius to work out that drum maps should be tested everywhere in case of regression issues, esp under saving conditions. From the look of it they don't do automated testing, but that's hearsay. I think per month we are to expect 3 or 4 visible regression bugs based on past history for Platinum. If we knew that these issues were quickly patched up (say a week or two later), or if we had a monthly stable release alongside a new feature release (we could choose) it might not be such a big deal.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/05/31 08:37:21
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mettelus
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 08:31:47
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Ultimately this is going to fall back onto voiced concerns when the membership model was announced if this trend continues. At the point of each member's renewal, if a damning bug is introduced in that last release, the user will be faced with paying for a bug fix or rolling back to the "best known version." I agree with the OP in that new content rates significantly lower than work flow enhancements and impeccable stability for me.
The "hitting a moving target" is most obtrusive from my perspective, as trying to keep track of things creates more undue overhead than necessary. In fact, it should not even be required.
Even more disconcerting to me is a recent series of crashes... the VSTi vendor took this VERY seriously (it was a crash after all) and emailed me twice in 24 hours. As someone who takes "field failures" as the #1 tarnish to one's reputation, the response in these forums as of late is often upsetting to see. This is even worse when someone does not have the bandwidth to read/report things, and what is in their lap is "all there is."
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 08:33:33
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☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2015/05/31 10:06:26
mettelus
This is even worse when someone does not have the bandwidth to read/report things, and what is in their lap is "all there is."
I've given up reporting altogether.
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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ralf
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 08:46:05
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Vastman, this is a misrepresentation of how software development works. It is common practice to have a phase for making changes for new features and bug fixes, followed by a phase of testing and fixing to ensure stability of the release. Having a fixed time for releases inevitably bears the risk of releasing the software before enough time was spent for stability testing. (BTW lfm, this kind of working on different branches is one of the main sources of bugs, because it prevents testing the full system in a stable state.)
Also, if it was the scheme that 40 bugs are fixed each month and only 2 bugs are generated, the software should become almost bug-free with time. That's not what happens in reality. Most software (and of course Sonar is far from being the worst in this regard) is released without doing enough testing. Instead, customers who pay for the software have to do the job of testing and reporting bugs, and they are even told that it would be good customer support to fix the reported bugs. It would be better customer support to release software that has been tested thoroughly to have no bugs, at least no obvious bugs that become apparent just by using basic functionality of the software.
If drum maps no longer work in saved projects, then I don't see what benefit it is that other problems with drum maps were fixed. I can no longer use them. And I wonder how testing is done, if all you have to do is to load a project with a drum map and hit play to see it's no longer working.
Yes, I reverted back to the D release (mainly because of the new problem with controller lanes). But it takes my time to install the software, to find bugs, to decide if the new bugs are worse than the old fixed bugs, and to revert to the previous version. And both new bugs, I found just by loading a project and trying to do a small standard edit.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 09:03:36
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Kamikaze
What if was a possible 'b' release, there was one in Braintree, that dealt with an introduced issue. So any new bugs that are picked up are addressed before the new months release. So if 3 bugs are found that are new monthly release, these are treated as a priority and a update just for these is provided. If a change has revealed a bigger issue, then maybe this on of the three is left until the next month, but the other two are sorted. Making each release more rubust.
Yes this is built into our system. If we encounter a serious regression that has no simple workaround we do release a point release earlier than a months release cycle as we have done earlier. If its something that affects you that much so that you cannot work, you can always roll back in a couple of minutes! That's how this system is supposed to work. SONAR is a complex piece of software and there are hundreds or thousands of use cases of it so no matter how much testing is done by our team there is always going to be potential for something to change that nobody notices. We take monthly releases very seriously and they are treated exactly like the annual releases with a full (though compressed) release cycle and every fix is regression tested. We're sorry that this one bug that impedes workflow slipped in - we'll do our best to fix it sooner than later.
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BobF
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 09:10:59
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2015/06/06 15:19:36
It is NOT a "subscription" model!!
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 09:11:47
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Yes this is built into our system. If we encounter a serious regression that has no simple workaround we do release a point release earlier than a months release cycle as we have done earlier.
So far that has happened once over registration issues? (Correct me if I'm wrong, you have the facts). It depends what you class as serious, one persons major bug can be another persons trivial or irrelevant issue. If I don't use drum maps then I don't care. If we knew that a stability point release for regression issues was a regular occurrence then the moving target stabilizes. I'd prefer not to deal with workarounds.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/05/31 09:21:33
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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Kamikaze
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 09:22:47
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Hey Noel, for the record, I am a big fan of the monthly release format, I like it a lot. It seems as demonstrated when you released that 'b' release in Briantree (I think Braintree or an earlier one) that you guys are showing your proactiviness when a biggie hits. The point I was trying to make, was that it would be good to see this in general, not just on 'biggies'. At the moment it seems like 40 steps forward and 3 steps back with every release. But if a step back happens to be a pain in the arse, it can feel like 20 steps back. Bugs on a way are pretty personal, some users put up with, some it breaks them.
I'm not in the OP camp, but I see his point. if a b release was more general, rather than applied to extreme cases, it would be reassuring. Especially when I am on month 12 and an issue is introduced along with a feature. I will either have to put up, or roll back and loose the feature. That's a nasty taste when you come asking for another years commitment.
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lfm
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 09:34:20
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ralf
(BTW lfm, this kind of working on different branches is one of the main sources of bugs, because it prevents testing the full system in a stable state.)
What is the alternative - one developer on Sonar - yes,that would speed things up... Somebody responsible for system as such must direct who does what, and what needs to be tested fiddling with certain parts of code.
It would be better customer support to release software that has been tested thoroughly to have no bugs, at least no obvious bugs that become apparent just by using basic functionality of the software.
It's always obvious to the user - that their particular setup and way of working - is everybody's way.- didn't you test this at all? In daws where the biggest part of setup would be 3rd party plugins - so many sources for problems. Just look at jBridge and how different options were added with each release, tells a little if different it can be - bridging different plugins. Lot of options how to update guy, normal or sparse and many other things etc. The total for me - it's a miracle that it works so well. I had my portion of rants over the years with my customers when I had my business. Things that just didn't happend on my system but with user system. An array wasn't fully initialized and caused crash at end user - but not on my system and the values that just happend to be there on my system stack. Other times certain parts of gui was not visible for customer - turned out to be a bug in his graphics drivers, and lines drawn from right to left never showed up. All this hardware and software working together - it's a miracle to me...nothing less...
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pwalpwal
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Re: Concerns about reliability and the subscription model
2015/05/31 09:40:05
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BENTWe just want it to work so we can make music for us as end users, this is all that matters; for cakewalk as a business, this is only a part of the story... finding the right threshold is the key...
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