Ooble,

That's a very interesting read. It plays out similarly to the thread I posted here back in Jan/ Feb about Vista64 and my Quad-core system. I noticed that at mid to high latncies Vista performed better than XP, but XP handled low latencies better under high stress. When I mean low btw I mean 1-3 ms. 5ish and up and Vista clearly performed better. I'd be interested in seeing their Sonar test putting Sonar64 and Sonarx86 to the test.

Since you seem to be setting your sights on a new computer you should have a look at the new Mac Pro that just came out - 8 Cores !!!

Just can't help yourself, can ya...

For the first time in nearly two years, Apple (with their new 8 core) went back to their old selves...

The 8 core mac pro, while clearly a stellar machine which I'd love to have, is $4000, and that's with 1GB memory... useless for an 8 core machine.
Funny... I thought they'd given such laugh ability up.

That, you can clearly beat by building yourself (in fact, I can do it for nearly $1500 less)... while the other Mac Pro machines, are excellent buys (and map almost 1 to 1 to their PC counterparts).
They're solid, fairly reliable, and reasonably priced... you'll get no argument from me.

Sad, too... they had me at 8 core... I've been talking about it for months, and had the money... but not for $4000.
Apple, after all, is still Apple, it seems.

Worship them if you will... but they don't care about you, and aren't saving the computer world... masters of marketing, nothing more.
So good at it, that most of their fans fall hook, line, and sinker.

$4000... Hahaha...
Funny.

Moving my Dual boot PC Windows DAW to an Intel Mac dual booting OSX and Window XP. Stay tuned ...

That's great... seriously, and I really do mean that, despite what you might think.
What puzzles me is... why are you saying it like it's the first time any one's said it. Sonar on Bootcamp Macs works fine... this isn't anything spectacular, and it's a year old now.

I'm glad you're excited, and again, I really do mean that. But what's the outcome expected to be... that you'll come back and tell us how horrible it was?
That's clearly unlikely.

And we already know, and I will attest, to the fact that Windows running on Mac PC hardware works like Windows... and so does Sonar, with a few exceptions that are pretty much driver issues.

Seriously... what, other than that, is there to say?

As for DRM dropping by anybody:
Excellent. I can't stand most of it, but actually think some is called for, and am thrilled that companies are starting to ditch such an annoyance.
I hope more people ditch it like I hope more companies ditch dongles as an invasive and annoying copy protection scheme... but Apple and Steve, regardless of what they say, have a clear precedence up to this point of being in it for the money, and have taken the credit for lots of things they didn't do (like pretty much all of OS X).

Here, let me go play with my dongled copy of Logic Pro, while you lot suffer through with the open-minded mentality of that Windows DAW you're stuck with.
I love dongles.

- zevo

PS - Lion, that's the last one, I promise.
- z

I priced an 8 core machine today for work at $2500 with 2GB memory... CPU, two notches down from the Mac Pro. $1500 to notch up is far too much to be taken seriously by me.

Not sure why you aren't seeing the quads around... they've been out for over a month, and are readily available.
Keep in mind that DAW builders are often NOT cutting edge... they aim for tried and true to some degree. But you can, and could, buy quad Xeons...

Don't get me wrong, the Mac Pro 8 core is sweet, it really is.
But, it's simply not going to beat the one I'll build by a $1500 margin at stock levels, and I can clock mine up to match it in every respect.

I'm not downing it as a machine... just saying that IMO it's a step backward from their recent marketing... and much more like how they were when they were pimping G4 chips that everyone on the planet could beat and an OS (OS 9) with the worst memory management of any OS (including '98) I've ever seen. That, of course, was before the Intel switch... and, indeed, before they put a Windowing system on BSD and took credit for the whole thing.

The fact that they have a Xeon chip that no one else has (yet) is marketing. They did that to write the article you cited, so that you would cite it, and you did.
It's a sweet chip, that they'll have all alone for a couple of months, and then everyone else will be able to get it too.
It's not their chip, after all... it's Intel's.
Heck, I might even get some for work if I can't clock the cheaper ones up like I want.

I love Apple... I do.
I actually do own stock, and several of their machines, and I've recommended them over and over, and will continue to.
But I won't lie about them, or make them out to be something they're not... and Mr. Jobs is quite clear to me.

If you are for real, and honestly I have my doubts, then why not just switch and be happy?
I'm not asking you too... it's an open forum.
But, staying here, and on the Project 5 forum, continuously pimping Apple and lightly linking it to Sonar, suggests that you aren't for real.

I mean, when I found Sonar, coming from Cubase, I switched.
And I had an intense hatred (and still do) for Steinberg.
But, I didn't hang out on their forum telling them how much better Cakewalk was as a company, even though I knew it to be true (and still do). I didn't go back, day after day, saying how many things they could learn from Cakewalk, or how they should run specials, or how evil dongles are... I just left.

- zevo

ORIGINAL: axe



Noticed that Quad-Cores were not available on the PC DAW builders sites

Wrong again, New Egg had 'em last September when I checked along with dual socket server boards for 8 core followed shortly thereafter with non server boards.

Imagine that, PC having to catch up to the performance of Mac. Times are a changin

Time for a new commercial!

That would be typical of Jobs doing a commercial claiming to be first, 7 months too late. Hey, maybe you can do the commercial, you know, sort of like the "Dell Dude", only for Crapple instead. Hopefully, you'll wind up just like him too
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/02/10/dell.dude.arrest/index.html

Most successful troll ever...
To get these kinds of responses from such intelligent and
knowledgeable people is trolling genius!!!

Yes, he's a very insidious character.
Why the mods here let him continue unabated is beyond me.
Do they not care that he is really annoying people?
(I'm writing in the 3rd person because he's blocked me.)

Is there any moderation at all on this forum?

ORIGINAL: bigweb

Is there any moderation at all on this forum?

Nah, they're all busy with porting Sonar to Mac. I've heard that everyone is needed to achieve this titanic goal, so no MIDI improvements, no sidechaining, no new "doodads" etc. for Sonar 7... and of course NO moderation either.

ORIGINAL: bigweb

Yes, he's a very insidious character.
Why the mods here let him continue unabated is beyond me.
Do they not care that he is really annoying people?
(I'm writing in the 3rd person because he's blocked me.)

Is there any moderation at all on this forum?

So, that's your standard?
"Mommy, that boy annoys me, make him go away."
"But dear, others are enjoying themselves, why don't we go home instead?"
"No, no, no, make him leave mommy! Bwaaaaaaa!"

Most successful troll ever... To get these kinds of responses from such intelligent and knowledgeable people is trolling genius!!!

lolz, so either he is not a troll, or they aren't so intelligent and knowledgeable after all...or..both?

ORIGINAL: D.Triny

Most successful troll ever... To get these kinds of responses from such intelligent and knowledgeable people is trolling genius!!!

lolz, so either he is not a troll, or they aren't so intelligent and knowledgeable after all...or..both?

There is, of course, a third option.
People are bored and/or have a lot of time on their hands, or are taking breaks at work, etc... nothing better to do.

I know it's sad.

I don't know if anyone's a troll, and I regret occasionally being offensive in some way, and sincerely apologise to everyone for it.
I do, however, think that (on accident, perhaps) these threads are mostly about the superiority of Macs, or the impressiveness of Steve Jobs.
They're cloaked well, but this thread didn't start with a blanket: "DRM-dropping report" alone... it was attached to Steve and Apple from the beginning.

Had it been about DRM, it might have gone differently, but since it follows multiple other threads and posts about how great Apple and Steve are, it was interpreted in that light, and viewed as trolling.

It might not be trolling, but it follows the pattern of good trolling:
1. I'm one of you (express membership).
2. I have a thought about something I think would be good for the community (the cloak).
3. Blanket/concrete statements of fact that are designed to provoke an emotional response, usually something in opposition to the norm of the forum, or in direct conflict.

Maybe not trolling on purpose, but follows the patter perfectly.
People see that, in multiple threads by the same person, and take aim, me included...

Anyway. I'm not bored anymore, and I've realized that I've spent far too much time online, and not enough writing tracks.
So, I'm out for a bit, after I reply to a few I already have an obligation to.

Take care, all (you too, Axe),
- zevo

Dell was just a first port of call, I think (could be wrong) that they're still among the first few to get access to intel's newest, baddest chips.
as for being dell-boy (uk sitcom pun, you'll probably not get it), i've got a dell lappy, and a 24" dell widescreen. All my other computers are self-built. I even built most of our back office machines, and studio workstations.
I'm almost tempted to build a pc, crack the osx efi restriction, and mail it to you to prove a point.

I won't however, because I've got a 4 day weekend, which i'll probably spend indoors due to a fricking virus (medical, not digital! lol)

what I can't quite figure out is what exactly are you spamming us with? You're happily running windows on your mac, so you obviously have no strict allegiance to OSX, so are you just pointing out that you're buying expensive hardware (I never said crap)? and expecting everyone else to admire you for it, and do the same?

If that's the case I pity you!

EDIT

Very interesting that Apple seems to be at the head of the Intel line.

no, not really. someone on this forum already pointed out that apple went to AMD first, but it didn't work out. Apple is quite likely ready to pay a premium for the newest chips, it goes with their image.
There's only a few companies with the facilities to make CPUs, and Apple had already been ripped off by IBM. worryingly, IBM are also involved in the late PS3 fiasco somehow I've been told. They're really not doing all that well!
If anything, it's far more interesting that Apple went to intel at all, after they've been stating for years that the powerPC chip was sooooo much better! but anyway, others have already pointed this out.

ORIGINAL: axe
You have to be kidding me, so now your the "I'm getting a Dell dude". BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Starting to reveal his true nature.
What's ironic here is that he doesn't seem to realize what a fool he's making of himself.
I guess if he was smart enough to do that he wouldn't be spamming and trolling this forum.

ORIGINAL: ooblecaboodle

Dell was just a first port of call, I think (could be wrong) that they're still among the first few to get access to intel's newest, baddest chips.
as for being dell-boy (uk sitcom pun, you'll probably not get it), i've got a dell lappy, and a 24" dell widescreen. All my other computers are self-built. I even built most of our back office machines, and studio workstations.
I'm almost tempted to build a pc, crack the osx efi restriction, and mail it to you to prove a point.

I won't however, because I've got a 4 day weekend, which i'll probably spend indoors due to a fricking virus (medical, not digital! lol)

what I can't quite figure out is what exactly are you spamming us with? You're happily running windows on your mac, so you obviously have no strict allegiance to OSX, so are you just pointing out that you're buying expensive hardware (I never said crap)? and expecting everyone else to admire you for it, and do the same?

If that's the case I pity you!

EDIT

Very interesting that Apple seems to be at the head of the Intel line.

no, not really. someone on this forum already pointed out that apple went to AMD first, but it didn't work out. Apple is quite likely ready to pay a premium for the newest chips, it goes with their image.
There's only a few companies with the facilities to make CPUs, and Apple had already been ripped off by IBM. worryingly, IBM are also involved in the late PS3 fiasco somehow I've been told. They're really not doing all that well!
If anything, it's far more interesting that Apple went to intel at all, after they've been stating for years that the powerPC chip was sooooo much better! but anyway, others have already pointed this out.

So ... you understand that Dell is using the a single Quad, that is not a 3.0GHZ and that Apple was waiting to go to market with the 3.0 chip that has not yet been released elsewhere. They are using two of these to create an 8-CPU machine.

To be perfectly clear, today ... as it stands ... Apple has the most Powerful Intel platform available on the market for audio. I just want it to be understood that this is the case ... for now

The 8-Core Mac Pro would make an unbelievable Windows or Mac OSX audio machine and represents not only the pinnacle of performance, at present, but also the pinnacle of flexibility in being able to run both Mac OSX and Windows.

This is the point that I am trying to make. Things have radically changed and you can have it any way you want it right now. The old arguments about Mac's are just not standing up and for once you have Apple in the performance with its Mac Pro. Who thought we would ever see the day!

Add in iLife and you have a complete multimedia solution that works right out of the box and would cost you quite a bit more on just a Windows PC. So that needs to get added into the equation also.

I would say that for at least 70% of cakewalk users, this makes tremendous sense and represents a tremendous value.

Not exactly where this thread was heading but hopefully you can see that there is a pretty interesting development here.


AXE

So ... you understand that Dell is using the a single Quad

no, you can in fact buy dual quads from dell.