EMI dropping DRM - great news for us

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axe
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2007/04/03 12:31:58 (permalink)

EMI dropping DRM - great news for us

Although this was linked to Apple, it is not apple specific at all and appears to have more than just EMI riding on this. Steve Jobs has been publicly opposed to DRM and even posted a public statement asking the record companies to drop DRM. Finally some results!

Steve Jobs DRM Manifesto
http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughtsonmusic/

The big impact to Sonar users? It equals just one less problem to have to deal with on your PC. Most will fully agree that DRM adds nothing to the game, it can only cause problems in performance and in some cases, the ability to use your PC.

Unfortunately, rather than publicly opposing DRM, Microsoft decided to jump in bed with DRM and it is "deeply" woven into Vista robbing some of your performance. Too bad, with the market share the Microsoft has this would have been done already.

Apple site link to the EMI/DRM release
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/04/02itunes.html

Apple is making all the right moves and has the creative professional in mind. Not much ambiguity in that

AXE
post edited by axe - 2007/04/03 12:40:06
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    cGar
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/03 13:35:49 (permalink)
    Thats PIMP!

    DRM is worthless and as long as the CDDA format exists you can always get around it!

    Hopefully the rest will follow suit!

    Go Big or Stay Home!!

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    #2
    Alndln
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/03 14:34:46 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: axe

    Steve Jobs has been publicly opposed to DRM and even posted a public statement asking the record companies to drop DRM.
    "FairPlay is a digital rights management (DRM) technology created by Apple Inc., built in to the QuickTime multimedia technology and used by the iPod, iTunes, and the iTunes Store. Every file bought from the iTunes Store with iTunes (excepting songs distributed by the EMI Group) is encoded with FairPlay. It digitally encrypts AAC audio files and prevents users from playing these files on unauthorized computers." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairPlay



    Apple is making all the right moves and has the creative professional in mind.
    With the exception of dropping DRM themselves so far. And we can probably forget about Jobs lifting DRM for movies altogether http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,130334-c,copyright/article.html
    post edited by Alndln - 2007/04/03 14:35:46
    #3
    Vertigo50
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/03 16:42:56 (permalink)
    Two things:

    1. Steve Jobs had nothing to do with this. He wrote an open letter about it because he knew EMI was considering dropping DRM, and he knew that if he wrote this letter and then it happened, everyone would think he did it. This is well-documented by many technology pundits. Just check it out. There are articles dating back way before Jobs' letter about EMI considering dropping it. If Steve Jobs were really opposed to DRM, like he claims to be, why hasn't he dropped the DRM from the independent music that the artists themselves have been asking for? There are numerous artists who are more than willing to drop the DRM, and they haven't done it yet. Thanks for the letter Steve, but I'd prefer you to actually DO something about it then to write about it.

    2. Microsoft did what they had to do to convince the media companies to let you run HD on your computer. You know what's going to happen if you try to play HD on your precious Mac? NOTHING. It won't play. Period. Unless Apple does the same thing Microsoft did, and embeds DRM to make the media companies happy, you won't have HD on your Mac anytime soon.

    Of course, that's if the media companies even bother working with Apple, since they'd be putting a lot of time and resources into it for only 2.4% of the market. I doubt they'll even bother.
    post edited by Vertigo50 - 2007/04/03 16:45:06
    #4
    axe
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/03 17:41:41 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Vertigo50

    Two things:

    1. Steve Jobs had nothing to do with this. He wrote an open letter about it because he knew EMI was considering dropping DRM, and he knew that if he wrote this letter and then it happened, everyone would think he did it. This is well-documented by many technology pundits. Just check it out. There are articles dating back way before Jobs' letter about EMI considering dropping it. If Steve Jobs were really opposed to DRM, like he claims to be, why hasn't he dropped the DRM from the independent music that the artists themselves have been asking for? There are numerous artists who are more than willing to drop the DRM, and they haven't done it yet. Thanks for the letter Steve, but I'd prefer you to actually DO something about it then to write about it.

    2. Microsoft did what they had to do to convince the media companies to let you run HD on your computer. You know what's going to happen if you try to play HD on your precious Mac? NOTHING. It won't play. Period. Unless Apple does the same thing Microsoft did, and embeds DRM to make the media companies happy, you won't have HD on your Mac anytime soon.

    Of course, that's if the media companies even bother working with Apple, since they'd be putting a lot of time and resources into it for only 2.4% of the market. I doubt they'll even bother.




    Vertigo,

    You are so funny

    I think you take all the OS thing way to seriously, this is a good thing for all OS's ... DUH!

    BTW, have you gotten OSX running on your Windoze PC? Funny, windoze and Sonar run great on my Mac!!!

    Go take your angst and see a shrink, you'll get much further


    AXE
    #5
    inmazevo
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/03 18:03:09 (permalink)
    One more time...

    Keep it going man.
    So brainwashed even I'm tempted to sell my Macs.

    - z
    #6
    LionSound
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/03 18:17:24 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: axe


    Unfortunately, rather than publicly opposing DRM, Microsoft decided to jump in bed with DRM and it is "deeply" woven into Vista robbing some of your performance.

    AXE

    Unbelievable, what a troll axe has become.

    Axe, why don't you point out specifically how "deeply woven" DRM is in Vista, and let us know exactly how it will be "robbing some of your performance" in Vista? Oh, right, because you cannot. All you can do is spread FUD and misinformation to paint yourself as some sort of Saint sent here to enlighten us all. You are not fooling me, and I hope you are not fooling the thousands of others who browse on this forum to pick up truly useful information.

    Here is essentially what DRM will do in Vista. If a DRM encripted movie/ cd is played illegally on a Vista machine, in other words llegally copied or burned, then said machine will play the content at a lower quality.

    How does this effect Sonar users, or our "performance"? It doesn't. Unless you plan on playing hacked copies of DRm enabled movies and music.

    What I have brought here to this argument are facts. What will you bring?

    www.soundclick.com/lionsound

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    #7
    Robomusic
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/03 18:33:35 (permalink)
    Facts!! Facts you say? pffffhhhttt. What good are facts when you can spout misinformation, falacy, and psuedo intellect?!?!?!?!?

    I'd Seize the day but i can't quite reach it!

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    #8
    Jason Archibald
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/03 18:37:55 (permalink)
    "How does this effect Sonar users, or our "performance"? It doesn't. Unless you plan on playing hacked copies of DRm enabled movies and music" Lionsound

    It affects Sonar users and all computer users because of the underlying architecture that must run in the background to check and verify everything... the more stuff running on a machine, the poorer the overall performance of user-run apps.


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    #9
    LionSound
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/03 19:27:43 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Jason Archibald

    "How does this effect Sonar users, or our "performance"? It doesn't. Unless you plan on playing hacked copies of DRm enabled movies and music" Lionsound

    It affects Sonar users and all computer users because of the underlying architecture that must run in the background to check and verify everything... the more stuff running on a machine, the poorer the overall performance of user-run apps.



    Does it? I am typing this from my Vista machine on which I see zero services or applications running that are associated with DRM.

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    #10
    cGar
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/03 19:32:53 (permalink)
    You are only saying that cuz the folks at WINTEL have paid you to do so!!!

    Go buy a Mac, it's just better because!

    Go Big or Stay Home!!

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    #11
    axe
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/03 23:59:40 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: inmazevo

    One more time...

    Keep it going man.
    So brainwashed even I'm tempted to sell my Macs.

    - z


    immazevo,

    If you are serious, PM me (better yet, just post and I will PM you). I would be thrilled to take a Mac with Logic Pro in trade for my PC DAW with Sonar + P5.

    AXE
    #12
    axe
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/04 00:08:31 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Jason Archibald

    "How does this effect Sonar users, or our "performance"? It doesn't. Unless you plan on playing hacked copies of DRm enabled movies and music" Lionsound

    It affects Sonar users and all computer users because of the underlying architecture that must run in the background to check and verify everything... the more stuff running on a machine, the poorer the overall performance of user-run apps.





    Eggzactly and we are not talking a service that you can shut off, no ... it has to be placed at such a low level that you cannot disable or monitor it

    This really stinks for Microsoft as they really embedded DRM into the OS and I would doubt that there would be the ability to easily get this out. My feeling is that this is once again an illustration that Microsoft does not have its eye on the prize. They tried to deal a blow to Apple by getting setup for what they thought the digital media future would look like and they missed it entirely. Now there is more bloat code that will soon have no use but certainly cause problems. I am betting that a great deal of the delay in Vista was due to DRM, it will be quite embarassing if it was for naught.

    I believe that Steve Jobs should be commended for his support of ridding the world of DRM and EMI for having the guts to do it.

    AXE
    post edited by axe - 2007/04/04 00:10:24
    #13
    LionSound
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/04 00:15:43 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: axe

    ORIGINAL: Jason Archibald

    "How does this effect Sonar users, or our "performance"? It doesn't. Unless you plan on playing hacked copies of DRm enabled movies and music" Lionsound

    It affects Sonar users and all computer users because of the underlying architecture that must run in the background to check and verify everything... the more stuff running on a machine, the poorer the overall performance of user-run apps.





    Eggzactly and we are not talking a service that you can shut off, no ... it has to be placed at such a low level that you cannot disable or monitor it


    AXE


    Do you even know what you are talking about, or does your little wink sign signify your total, complete ignorance? Explain to me please, exactly how DRM runs in Vista, and how it slows down systems. Have you even used Vista yet? Bring some facts with your arguments.
    post edited by LionSound - 2007/04/04 00:16:19

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    #14
    LionSound
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/04 00:19:56 (permalink)
    Here is a quote from Mr. Ron Kuper, former head honcho of Cakewalk and all -around computer genious. The man is informed and speaks form an unbiased platform.

    I thought I'd weigh in on this one. I'm not at Cakewalk any more these days, but I'm familiar with what MS is doing with audio in Vista.

    To summarize: Don't Worry.

    All the DRM stuff the article is describing only applies to secure content being played through a secure media path. It's not so different than today, where if you try to open a DRMed WMA file in SONAR, you can't. That's because SONAR isn't in the secure audio path.

    MS gave professional authoring tools like SONAR low level hardware access in Vista. They've created a better API than the existing KS system, and they've also made some changes to the kernel to allow tools such as SONAR to run with ultra-high priority threads. Running at this low level is similar to ASIO or KS in that the application has exclusive hardware access, and runs outside the secure audio path so you can't play DRMed content that way. But you can't today, either, so it's really no change.

    All disabling, decoding, degrading behavior occurs if the host is using a high level API, such the old "Wave" or "DirectSound" code. This is very similar to the infamous KMixer situation today, which resamples and adds latency - equally unacceptable to a tool such as SONAR, so these APIs are avoided by SONAR. MS knows these behaviors are not acceptable to pro audio applications so they provided a way to avoid them, albeit with the caveat you can't play secure content.

    www.soundclick.com/lionsound

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    #15
    inmazevo
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/04 00:48:36 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: axe
    ORIGINAL: inmazevo
    One more time...

    Keep it going man.
    So brainwashed even I'm tempted to sell my Macs.

    - z

    immazevo,
    If you are serious, PM me (better yet, just post and I will PM you). I would be thrilled to take a Mac with Logic Pro in trade for my PC DAW with Sonar + P5.
    AXE


    No.
    #16
    axe
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/04 01:00:07 (permalink)
    Ah man :(

    AXE
    #17
    inmazevo
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/04 01:03:14 (permalink)
    Do you even know what you are talking about, or does your little wink sign signify your total, complete ignorance? Explain to me please, exactly how DRM runs in Vista, and how it slows down systems. Have you even used Vista yet? Bring some facts with your arguments.


    Let's let it go, LionSound.
    We're feeding him... me included.

    He's only here to keep this same argument going, but you and I (and most others) know better.
    At this rate, he's just costing Apple business...
    I know many that aren't interested in Macs solely because they view them as cocky, and cult-like... people I work with every day... professionals.

    I'll stop if you will.
    It won't go anywhere anyway.

    I know it's annoying... I'm with you.
    It reminds me of all the flack we took when we actually mentioned that we were thinking about using Vista... non-stop arguments by people who didn't even have it.
    They went away, for the most part... and this will too.

    Take care, and respect...
    - zevo
    post edited by inmazevo - 2007/04/04 01:06:41
    #18
    LionSound
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/04 01:18:50 (permalink)
    Zevo,

    You are right, man, and I am with you. However, I really hate to see FUD spread around a forum that I respect and enjoy so much. I really would hate to see other users who might not be as informed as you or I begin to form opinions based on non-factual opinions and said FUD.

    Your approach is right on, though. I agree that it will go away so what the heck, I'm on board with your "silence" program.

    Hopefully we will see more and more threads about how and why Vista has improved people's DAW experience and also threads about how to maximize performance on Vista. I'll be right there with you on those threads, trying my best to get the most out of it and to help others. Until then, I'm sure I'll see you around the forum.

    LS

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    #19
    axe
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/04 01:19:37 (permalink)
    immazevo,

    You know, if you have no interest in what I post why in the heck are you and Lionsound in this thread? You could show just a little control and maturity and just move right on by. I do it everyday on this forum.

    Instead, you have to hurl an insult which belies what you are really up to and that is to stir the pot.

    Seems the concept that some have ideas and beliefs other than your own are infuriating to some people and they just cannot restrain themselves. Hence they purposely disrupt other's thread with personal attacks like you just issued. Formally known as "trolling".

    This is a great topic that should be received as great news to all of the Sonar users as it will have an impact on digital music. Most do not realize the DRM was forced by the big labels in order to be able to distribute digital media. Apple had the balls to say something about it and there are results. It will have an impact on the distribution of digital which should be of keen interest whether you intend to selll (bigger market) or consumer (more options/flexibility).


    AXE
    #20
    D.Triny
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/04 02:42:38 (permalink)
    1. Steve Jobs had nothing to do with this. He wrote an open letter about it because he knew EMI was considering dropping DRM, and he knew that if he wrote this letter and then it happened, everyone would think he did it. This is well-documented by many technology pundits. Just check it out. There are articles dating back way before Jobs' letter about EMI considering dropping it. If Steve Jobs were really opposed to DRM, like he claims to be, why hasn't he dropped the DRM from the independent music that the artists themselves have been asking for? There are numerous artists who are more than willing to drop the DRM, and they haven't done it yet. Thanks for the letter Steve, but I'd prefer you to actually DO something about it then to write about it.


    technology pundits? wow like they really know the truth about his thoughts? I'll have to find the article when I chance, but when quizzed on the subject the EMI spokesman seemed to say that Steve always felt this way. The other labels strong response *against* Steve's open letter also should confirm to most reasonable people that these were in fact his genuine thoughts on the matter.

    ...and speaking about doing something about it, this EMI development is it, as well as I can confirm that the other independent music distributors that I use are moving to DRM-free. This will force the other majors to go DRM-Free because for them it will be bizarre to have indie content listed as "High Quality" or "Premium" along side the regular old major label tracks. Game over the majors.

    how about keeping the hateration to the Macs.....iTunes+iPod is a winner.


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    #21
    D.Triny
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/04 02:51:28 (permalink)
    "FairPlay is a digital rights management (DRM) technology created by Apple Inc., built in to the QuickTime multimedia technology and used by the iPod, iTunes, and the iTunes Store. Every file bought from the iTunes Store with iTunes (excepting songs distributed by the EMI Group) is encoded with FairPlay. It digitally encrypts AAC audio files and prevents users from playing these files on unauthorized computers." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairPlay


    OMG Alndln...the whole point of the announcement is to say that Fairplay is now optional for the EMI catalog, and the expectation is that 1/2 of all the 5mil + tracks in iTunes will be available in non-drm versions. So obviously when this is made available in May, the Wikipedia article will be inaccurate.


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    D.Triny
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/04 02:56:06 (permalink)
    Unfortunately, rather than publicly opposing DRM, Microsoft decided to jump in bed with DRM and it is "deeply" woven into Vista robbing some of your performance. Too bad, with the market share the Microsoft has this would have been done already.


    go easy Axe, I don't think DRM will present a performance problem for SONAR in Vista...(though I've seen indications on this forum that XP may currently outperform Vista) but I do believe the DRM focus could be a marketing problem for Zune...a DRM-free revolution in digital music could make the "sharing" aspect of Zune difficult to market.


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    #23
    Alndln
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/04 04:01:04 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: axe



    "I believe that Steve Jobs should be commended for his support of ridding the world of DRM and EMI for having the guts to do it.
    Except he didn't. EMI dropped DRM, not Apple, DRM is alive and well with Apple right now. Only upcoming AMD based machines will give you the option to disable DRM at the chip level in bios, not Intel. Why do you think Jobs went with Intel? You don't think the movie companies wanted a garantee? Dream on. Let us know when Apple drops DRM from i-Tunes and i-Movies and when they make a press release stating so, and a garantee they won't embedd DRM in their next OS. Were waiting and counting on you for this report. Until then..........
    #24
    Alndln
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/04 04:11:18 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: D.Triny



    OMG Alndln...the whole point of the announcement is to say that Fairplay is now optional for the EMI catalog
    Exactly.
    and the expectation is that 1/2 of all the 5mil + tracks in iTunes will be available in non-drm versions.
    Only EMI product so far. When does Jobs lift DRM from independant artists? Ever? Why hasn't he done it already?
    So obviously when this is made available in May, the Wikipedia article will be inaccurate.
    Apple hasn't made any anouncement to the contrary so far, so until we hear something else the Wikipedia article stands. Apple also shows no signs from removing DRM from i-Movies either, nor have I heard anything regarding Intel removing DRM from the chip level in future chips. Not that I care about Microsoft either, but at least their up front about it.
    post edited by Alndln - 2007/04/04 04:13:57
    #25
    D.Triny
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/04 09:23:06 (permalink)
    Except he didn't. EMI dropped DRM, not Apple, DRM is alive and well with Apple right now


    If EMI dropped DRM, then I think you are saying that it's something the label's control right? So shouldn't the second half of the sentence read DRM is alive and well with Universal, Sony and Warner right now? Independent music catalogs though not "announced" by Steve Jobs are also having the DRM removed...this might be considered "doing" rather "saying" as someone earlier was saying.

    Is it impossible for this forum to celeberate the removal of DRM in such a high profile way? how disappointing.

    oh well. This is a tool based forum. I anticipate that independent artists who are earning from digital sales will be happy about this precedent
    post edited by D.Triny - 2007/04/04 09:24:50


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    D.Triny
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/04 09:31:53 (permalink)
    It reminds me of all the flack we took when we actually mentioned that we were thinking about using Vista... non-stop arguments by people who didn't even have it.


    hmmm well I see the anti-Vista and anti-Intel Mac energy in very similar lights...actually come to think of it anti "anything-new" ...EUREKA! I think after all these years I finally figured it out. In the future I'll come here just to discuss bugs in SONAR and what bugs should be fixed in a free update---and say "hell no" to new feature development. then maybe I'll fit in.


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    Alndln
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/04 11:28:56 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: D.Triny


    If EMI dropped DRM, then I think you are saying that it's something the label's control right? So shouldn't the second half of the sentence read DRM is alive and well with Universal, Sony and Warner right now?
    Yes, exactly
    Independent music catalogs though not "announced" by Steve Jobs are also having the DRM removed...
    I haven't heard anything regarding that yet, but if he does then great, but he won't or can't remove DRM for i-Movies. Microsoft is bound by the same dillema so their both in the same boat. My main objection to this thread is the proclomation that Steve Jobs "should be commended for his support of ridding the world of DRM"-axe ,when in reality it's still in place with Apple, and will continue to be for quite some time.
    post edited by Alndln - 2007/04/04 12:59:38
    #28
    D.Triny
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/04 11:44:58 (permalink)
    but he won't or can't remove DRM for i-Movies. Microsoft is bound by the same dillema so their both in the same boat.


    I think he's using logic (not the daw ) to illustrate that DRM for music makes no practical sense, because most of the music in peoples iTunes collections is already DRM free. It would seem clear to me that he would extend his preference for a DRM free world to digital video, but currently his influence is much more limited there...at least currently.

    If independent video activity heats up on iTunes I'm sure he'll be able to obtain the necessary leverage.
    post edited by D.Triny - 2007/04/04 11:46:42


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    #29
    Alndln
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    RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us 2007/04/04 12:57:07 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: D.Triny

    most of the music in peoples iTunes collections is already DRM free.
    Not if they came from iTunes.
    "iTunes will continue to offer its entire catalog, currently over five million songs, in the same versions as today—128 kbps AAC encoding with DRM—" http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/04/02itunes.html
    post edited by Alndln - 2007/04/04 13:03:06
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