inmazevo
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 18:56:36
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The sad thing (to me anyway) is that the following three topics are completely worthy of serious discussion... Anybody dropping DRM Porting Sonar to Mac The impressiveness of the Mac Pro 8 core I have a rather strong opinion why, in the context of these threads, we didn't actually debate those topics... but I won't bother saying it again... I got caught up in viewing these threads as confrontational as well, which is why I issued my earlier apology, and won't participate anymore in what's become yet another Mac vs. PC thread. Perhaps we can debate them in the future without seeing each other as enemies. - zevo
post edited by inmazevo - 2007/04/09 19:13:50
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ooblecaboodle
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 19:17:23
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ORIGINAL: inmazevo
The sad thing (to me anyway) is that the following three topics are completely worthy of serious discussion...
Anybody dropping DRM
Porting Sonar to Mac
The impressiveness of the Mac Pro 8 core
I have a rather strong opinion why, in the context of these threads, we didn't actually debate those topics... but I won't bother saying it again...
Perhaps we can debate them in the future without seeing each other as enemies.
- zevo
Ok cool. Here's my stance on this for the record. Anybody dropping DMR, excellent news. Possibly important enough to make this year go down in history as the year that digital downloads REALLY kicked off. Or maybe not. Only time will tell. Anyway, good stuff. Porting Sonar to Mac. I don't see any point whatsoever. As Axe has repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly pointed out, Macs can now run windows, so why bother? Sonar seems to be ahead of the curve in adapting to and utilising windows components effectively, and to my understanding, cakewalk even had a small part to play in the development of vista's audio stack. Why give that up? Impressiveness of 8-core Mac. Yeah, really nice machine. However, 8 cores are nothing new now, and personally i'll wait till i can buy the 3gig ones myself, and build my own machine. It ISN'T the most powerful workstation solution, no matter how much axe wants to disagree. As I've pointed out, 16-core machines are available from Boxx, and i'm 100% certain that even more powerful machines exist, if only I could care enough to go hunting for them. HOWEVER. What really pisses me off is the way that axe will flood this forum with mac ads, and argue blind that they are the fastest things on earth, the saviour of humanity etc. It's as if he truly believes that we've never heard of the things before. He also seems to believe that we all use PCs because we think we HAVE to, not because we choose to.
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UnderTow
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 19:26:53
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ORIGINAL: axe
Seems the Mac Pro is running something a little unique:
http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/04/05/mac.pro.special.xeon/
Are you absolutely sure you could equip equivalently? 
Noticed that Quad-Cores were not available on the PC DAW builders sites and also notived that they put 2x512MB of RAM in by default also. When you even them up, I think you will just find the Quad-Cores are rather expensive at this speed if they can even be had in the PC world.
Imagine that, PC having to catch up to the performance of Mac. Times are a changin 
I could have built a 16 core PC two years ago allready. You ignorant fool. UnderTow
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inmazevo
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 19:30:11
(permalink)
Classic case of:
It's not what you say... it's how you say it.
We could have talked about Sonar users wanting a Mac port because of this or that... without saying that its because Mac has iLife, and is a superior OS, and has a glorious CEO. Clearly, some users want Sonar ported to Mac, and the Sonar forum is an appropriate place for that. But iLife has nothing to do with it... the OS is a matter of preference, and the glorious CEO is debatable by many (me included).
We could have talked about how great it is to be in a 8 core world, without getting into how the 8 core Mac Pro is yet another example of how superior Apple is to everybody else, and again being reminded about iLife, an app that clearly is not going to be used on a 8 core Mac Pro at $4000.
I'm all about getting an 8 core mac. I really did have the money lined up, had they made a true shift, instead of tacking on an 8 core machine that's out of my price range. Once they've moved the entire line to 8 core, and the entry level is $2000... I'm there, and I'll run OS X and Vista on it, and it will be my primary machine.
We could have talked about how excellent it was that a major company is dropping DRM, and how we hope others will follow... without saying it's due to Apple's leadership and how they are clearly leading the pack.
To many, me included, this is Apple spotlighting again, and taking credit for something that they participated in, but didn't entirely do themselves...
Carefully worded original posts, followed by posts that respectfully keep to that topic, go a long way, IMHO.
- zevo
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UnderTow
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 19:48:32
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ORIGINAL: axe
ORIGINAL: ooblecaboodle
So ... you understand that Dell is using the a single Quad no, you can in fact buy dual quads from dell.
You cannot buy the 3.0GHZ Quads from Dell, Apple has an exclusive on those and thus the most powerful machine that can presently be purchased.
Not sure why this is so difficult for your to accept but these are the facts.
You can repeat it as much as you want but that doesn't make it true.
Wiggle as you may, you have made a mistake and have lost this argument.
You have lost every single argument so far but are too thick to see that. UnderTow
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jb
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 19:50:35
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: bigweb
ORIGINAL: jb
Insidious and annoying to you and if the 'mods' step in per your request then those of us not annoyed will be deprived of our amusement. Any way you cut it you're trying to control what the rest of us can have access to and why? Because he annoys you? Then don't read him and leave the rest of us alone. Seems to me that if anyone has been "operating or proceeding in an inconspicuous or seemingly harmless way but actually with grave effect" it's you. You really want threads killed any time some gets annoyed? Or just when you get annoyed?
Interpreting what I wrote as "trying to control what the rest of us can
have access to" is a stretch, to say the least.
Seems to me it's you trying to control what happens here by telling me what
I should or should not be writing in this forum.
Write whatever you want.
To quote your previous post: "we don't need you telling us who we can and can't read."
Exactly who were you representing when you wrote "we"?
That's probably my multiple personality problem, or is it problems?
Is there a group of people on this forum who have given you permission to represent them
on this subject?
What, it's a democracy?
Again I ask you : Do you condone Axes behavior on the forum?
What behavior? I didn't see anything wrong. Pretty tame stuff, parental guidance not required.
Do you think it's OK to start a thread and then simply block anyone
who comes up with a valid point against the original proposition?
I never believed he actually blocked someone, did you?
Do you think it's OK to insult peoples' nationality and their country of origin ?
Absolutely. I've never known a member of any group of people that didn't, but usually only among friends, of course.
Do you think Axes' annoying habit of simply ignoring valid points made by others
(that, again, refute points he has made) is acceptable behavior?
Seems to me he wasn't the only one ignoring the other.
Do you really think I don't have the right to suggest that the moderators should
try to moderate such behavior?
I never suggested you don't have the 'right' to call in the mods, just your motives for doing so. As a rhetorical gesture it's on par with threatening to block someone but with the added danger that if there's enough of a clamor, if enough people cry out, Cake might be tempted to really mod the place. I don't think they will, but your crying wolf just sounds like a little kid calling his mommy.
Can you please elaborate on "deprived of our amusement." ?
What exactly do you find amusing about all this?
What's not amusing? Everyone gives and takes, what's the big deal?
post edited by jb - 2007/04/09 19:54:25
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UnderTow
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 19:53:41
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ORIGINAL: axe
Right now you cannot buy a PC Windows machine that is as fast as a Mac ...
Still not true. Try buying a 16 core Mac... And soon a 32 core Mac... Impossible. UnderTow
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UnderTow
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 19:55:06
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ORIGINAL: axe
There are some serious holes in your technical knowledge and it makes one think the level of talent in Wales is not all that.
There are some holes in your ignorance. I prefer having holes in my knowledge. UnderTow
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ooblecaboodle
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 19:58:22
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I prefer having holes in my knowledge. too true, everyone's knowledge has holes. Not everyone has to be a jackass becuase of it.
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ooblecaboodle
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 20:01:11
(permalink)
Do you think it's OK to insult peoples' nationality and their country of origin ?
Absolutely. I've never known a member of any group of people that didn't, but usually only among friends, of course. Nice to see you're ok with him personally insulting not only me, but my nationality. I guess you'd be just as level-headed if he insulted you and yours.
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UnderTow
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 20:09:14
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ORIGINAL: axe
There are no 3.0GHZ Quad chips being offered by anyone other than Apple on their Mac Pro. This makes the Mac Pro the most powerful hardware platform on the market.
No. Still not true. Apple is more than two years late and with half the cores. *yawn*
Although it is quite expensive for my taste it is a bargain to inferior product being offered by a lowend consumer office/gamer builder like Dell.
No it isn't. Buying something that just hit the streets is NEVER a bargain. And by the time the price starts dropping, everyone will have those 3Ghz quad Xeons. So it is not a bragina by any stretch of the imagination. It is really amazing how stupid you can be.
I just find it completely entertaining to watch you wriggle like a little kid that has been caught and will not admit to what he has done.
Like you have been doing in all of your posts in all of those threads you are participating in? You are not only stupid but also delusional.
If you are going to pop off you better know what you are talking about or you ARE going to get it fed back to in LARGE doses.
16 cores, 16 cores! Now proove that you can adhere to your own words and admit that you are entirely wrong. I'm guessing you probably won't which just shows what an **** you are. UnderTow
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ooblecaboodle
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 20:14:35
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16 cores, 16 cores! Now proove that you can adhere to your own words and admit that you are entirely wrong. I'm guessing you probably won't which just shows what an **** you are. LOL. Maybe when AMD finally remember what they were doing, they'll bring out those promised 8-core chips, then we can have 64-core systems, with super low-latency subsystems! Come to think of it, haven't they been promising 8-cores for, erm, going on nearly two years now? I must admit though, my 4600x2 runs fine for the near future, although I'm more and more tempted by an intel-desktop day by day. I can't bear having a laptop that's faster than my desktop!
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UnderTow
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 20:19:55
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: axe
You tossed up the Dell as having the Quad Cores before Apple and also put a slam on the price and you were wrong of both counts.
Dell did not have Quad cores before Apple? Is that exactly what you are saying?
So, we have finally established that the Mac Pro is the present leader (as of time of posting) in the Performance category.
Absolutely not. Not even close. And will YOU admit that you are wrong?
It has leveled the performance playing field and in the case of the Mac Pro has taken the lead.
Mmmm nope. Still not true.
Being able to run Mac OSX and Windows on a single machine represents an incredible opportunity and value (yep, your cost goes way down).
Unless you are not interested in any software that runs on OS-X in which case it is just a waste of money.
It opens up a whole new suite of software in iLife that fits the bill for a great many and it comes with OSX. There is nothing of comparison to iLife included with Windows, you will have to go buy applications from a 3rd party which extends the cost.
You are still saying this after numerous people have pointed out that there are numerous free applications for windows that cover the entire iLife suite? You are really insane.
Do I think that there is going to be a market shift? Yes. I also believe that the companies that will be able to stay alive will need to figure out a way to support both Windows and Universal Binary. Cakewalk has started by providing synths that support both and we should expect (even hope) for it to continue with ports of other products. A strong Cakewalk benefits its users, we have seen what happens when companies get short on capital no one wants to be on that ship when it goes down.
You mean we have all seen what happens when certain companies overstretch and try and support two OSes for their primary product? Yes we have and lets hope Cakewalk doesn't go down that route. UnderTow
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UnderTow
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 20:28:13
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ORIGINAL: ooblecaboodle
16 cores, 16 cores! Now proove that you can adhere to your own words and admit that you are entirely wrong. I'm guessing you probably won't which just shows what an **** you are.
LOL. Maybe when AMD finally remember what they were doing, they'll bring out those promised 8-core chips, then we can have 64-core systems, with super low-latency subsystems!
Yeeeeaaaahhhh!
Come to think of it, haven't they been promising 8-cores for, erm, going on nearly two years now?
They have been on their roadmap for a while but always in the future AFAIK. I must admit I don't follow the roadmaps too much. I look at what is available in the present when am setting up a new system for myself (or someone else). I know the (true) quad core AMDs are expected quite soon but I'm not entirely sure when exactly. I must admit though, my 4600x2 runs fine for the near future, although I'm more and more tempted by an intel-desktop day by day. I can't bear having a laptop that's faster than my desktop! LOL. Luckily I don't have a laptop.  I won't be buying anything for the moment untill those quad AMDs come out. Then we will know wether Intel will keep it's performance lead (per CPU I must say lest AXE get all confused again). UnderTow
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UnderTow
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 20:36:20
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: ooblecaboodle
apart from the cost of throwing away a 24" screen with an imac.
Truely insane which prooves that alot of Mac owners have more cents than sense.
Wnat to know a few fallacies about apple?
remember their tagline that the G5 was the first 64-bit desktop? bullcrap, I've been reading ads for 64-bit BOXX workstations for nearly two years before the G5 came out.
I don't know these BOXX systems but I had a brand new Opteron workstation about two weeks before the G5 came out. (It was only on the market since about 2 weeks). (And no I didn't buy it. It came from work). But I can tell you that those comments from Steve Jobs made me laugh and any Apple fan boy that would mention it would get well ridiculed by me. Hard to argue with "I allready have a 64 bit machine right now. Steve Jobs is a liar of monumental proportions and you are a sucker for believing him." Next time some Apple fanboy starts touting the virtues of Macs I will just call them an AXE. They won't get it but I'll just chuckle when they ask what I mean.
Oh, and as for CPU cores, can you get 16 on a mac (currently)? Fair enough the machine below is still using dual cores, but it has eight of them.
Boxx Apex 8
Ah you actually beat me to it. I hadn't gotten this far in the thread yet.
Are you still so convinced that Mac...is the present leader (as of time of posting) in the Performance category.
Has he responded since? I'll keep on reading the thread to see his response (if any). UnderTow
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UnderTow
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 20:55:14
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ORIGINAL: ooblecaboodle
personally i'll wait till i can buy the 3gig ones myself, and build my own machine.
You can allready today but OUCH they are expensive. At least here in the Netherlands.
It ISN'T the most powerful workstation solution, no matter how much axe wants to disagree. As I've pointed out, 16-core machines are available from Boxx, and i'm 100% certain that even more powerful machines exist, if only I could care enough to go hunting for them.
And I havn't seen any response from AXE yet. It might take him a while to type his response using just one finger and sticking out his tongue in concentration then checking the screen after each key stroke to make sure he hit the right key.
HOWEVER.
What really pisses me off is the way that axe will flood this forum with mac ads, and argue blind that they are the fastest things on earth, the saviour of humanity etc. It's as if he truly believes that we've never heard of the things before.
He also seems to believe that we all use PCs because we think we HAVE to, not because we choose to.
Exactly. The guy is obviously too stupid to realise that much smarter people than him have evaluated the options and NOT chosen Apple. He has obviously just invested alot into his new Macintoy and that makes him blind for any arguments that would undermine his investment. I believe similar mechanisms are at work with religious zealots. The greater the investment, the greater the stubborness and the greater the inability to accept any counter arguments. And AXE is certainly a zealot. A newly converted one at that. The worst kind! UnderTow
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jb
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 21:04:00
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: ooblecaboodle
Do you think it's OK to insult peoples' nationality and their country of origin ?
Absolutely. I've never known a member of any group of people that didn't, but usually only among friends, of course.
Nice to see you're ok with him personally insulting not only me, but my nationality. I guess you'd be just as level-headed if he insulted you and yours.
No, actually, I didn't like it but that doesn't change my answer to BW. I thought it was tacky but , at the same time, hard to take very seriously. I mean, it was a religious war, you know, macs v pcs and that cuts so much deeper than nationality, lol. I had no idea you were actually hurt by it, must be tough being from Wales ):, sorry if I contributed to your pain. The sad thing is that threads like these obscure some interesting possibilities open to Cake now that macs are pcs, No doubt Cake knows the numbers and will make a smart move. I could care less who builds the fastest anything but I like my macbook, it's light and Sonar runs great on it but for everything else: grading, papers, photos and flics, email, banking and shopping, I use osx and it's a pain to not be able to have it on the same os. Forget Steiny and their modded boards, forget Logic, don't like it, and don't want to go PTLE. I know Sonar and would like to see it ported, but don't expect it will be; I'll live. Don't let axe bother you, you're better than that. Take care,
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syrath
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 21:14:51
(permalink)
Shhh.... MACs have always been PCs. Not to be confused with IBM PC Compatibles, which are also PCs. Not to be confused with Amiga, Atari ST, Commodore 64, Vic20, ZX Spectrum and my personal favourites ZX81 and 80. Now there were some PCs to talk about.
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bigweb
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 21:33:42
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ORIGINAL: jb
What's not amusing? Everyone gives and takes, what's the big deal? You just painted yourself into a corner jb. If you truly believe the above statement, what's your problem with anything I've posted?
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bigweb
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 21:45:04
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ORIGINAL: jb
I had no idea you were actually hurt by it, must be tough being from Wales ):, What in ignorant insensitive comment to make. Now your dropping down to Axes level. The sad thing is that threads like these obscure some interesting possibilities open to Cake now that macs are pcs The really sad thing is that I took your comments seriously.
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jb
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 22:04:54
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: bigweb
ORIGINAL: jb
What's not amusing? Everyone gives and takes, what's the big deal?
You just painted yourself into a corner jb.
If you truly believe the above statement,
what's your problem with anything I've posted?
Just as I wrote, axe's threat to block is a mere rhetorical move with no effect beyond the thread while your call for the mods does have, at least potentially the effect of, duh, bringing in moderators. Today they squelch a thread you don't like, all's right with your world, tomorrow it's another that perhaps if you had seen it, would have interested you. Alas, you would never know. I don't want this place to get all modded up like the steiny forums and believe calling for mods can bring them. If not, why call 'em?
Celeron 300A o/c 450, SBLive, Win98SE
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jb
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 22:06:12
(permalink)
What in ignorant insensitive comment to make. Now your dropping down to Axes level. Oh please, you're kidding, right?
post edited by jb - 2007/04/09 22:08:42
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axe
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 22:06:39
(permalink)
Oobie, you are too much. I literally shot water out my nose reading your posts, you are tremendously entertaining. It is like watching a little kid not want to do his chores, it is beyond comical. You just enjoy building your little computers as it seems to be really integral to your life and I really do not wish to hurt your fragile ego any more. So please stop throwing yourself in front of moving cars  AXE
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LionSound
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 22:13:31
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: axe
Oobie, you are too much. I literally shot water out my nose reading your posts, you are tremendously entertaining.
It is like watching a little kid not want to do his chores, it is beyond comical. You just enjoy building your little computers as it seems to be really integral to your life and I really do not wish to hurt your fragile ego any more. So please stop throwing yourself in front of moving cars
AXE
What kind of argument is this? Are we supposed to take him seriously?
www.soundclick.com/lionsound FirstStrike 1.2 IS RELEASED! www.fsmod.com
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jb
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 22:22:52
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: LionSound
ORIGINAL: axe
Oobie, you are too much. I literally shot water out my nose reading your posts, you are tremendously entertaining.
It is like watching a little kid not want to do his chores, it is beyond comical. You just enjoy building your little computers as it seems to be really integral to your life and I really do not wish to hurt your fragile ego any more. So please stop throwing yourself in front of moving cars
AXE
What kind of argument is this? Are we supposed to take him seriously?
Only if you're so full of yourself you can't help it.
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axe
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 22:25:02
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: inmazevo
The sad thing (to me anyway) is that the following three topics are completely worthy of serious discussion...
Anybody dropping DRM
Porting Sonar to Mac
The impressiveness of the Mac Pro 8 core
I have a rather strong opinion why, in the context of these threads, we didn't actually debate those topics... but I won't bother saying it again...
I got caught up in viewing these threads as confrontational as well, which is why I issued my earlier apology, and won't participate anymore in what's become yet another Mac vs. PC thread.
Perhaps we can debate them in the future without seeing each other as enemies.
- zevo
It was the direction I was looking to go but it only takes a few trolls to derail a thread. Everyone has their limits for what they will take and I am the point of giving it right back. It has actually become somewhat entertaining to evaluate their rather simple and child like patterns of thinking. The only thing that would be more entertaining would be to watch them attempt interact with others in person. They will be greatly comforted to know that I will be around this forum for quite some time as I really do like using Sonar and do feel that the Mac port will come through. In the mean time we will continue to explore how the Intel Mac is performing with Sonar. Maybe look at some iLife/Sonar projects. I am sure there are going to be plenty of great topics to mull over.
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SvenArne
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 22:33:53
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: axe
...but it only takes a few trolls to derail a thread....
OMG, do you even know what a troll is? It's basically someone who enters a forum with no intention other than stirring the anthill! Much like yourself! Sven
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D.Triny
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 22:43:48
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Truely insane which prooves that alot of Mac owners have more cents than sense. along with all the fools who buy laptops eh? hope you don't have one
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D.Triny
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 22:46:15
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Carefully worded original posts, followed by posts that respectfully keep to that topic, go a long way, IMHO. well said
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bigweb
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RE: EMI dropping DRM - great news for us
2007/04/09 22:47:47
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ORIGINAL: jb
Only if you're so full of yourself you can't help it. So now we have 2 idiots in this thread. Or are you Axe in disguise?
post edited by bigweb - 2007/04/09 22:50:04
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