I think Axe posts are so effective becuase he is a BIG DOGS COCK, and therefore annoys us all so much that we feel compelled to respond, its like the effect funk music has on your feet, only in axe cases it makes me want to kick im inna his face, rather than dance like my gerbil it won the lottery.

G

Perhaps but that doesn't mean there haven't been and will continue to be plenty of threads about 'general computer audio.' I, for one, think the forum works pretty well. There's plenty of bs threads that, rather than contribute to the noise, I simply don't read. I don't see the need to wall them off.

I would very much like one section on this forum where people were required to have self-control.
I don't think, in this case, it's a matter of general computer discussions being a problem... I like, and participate heavily, in those.

This is a case of one person with a history of propagating the same heated thread all over the forum, mildly cloaked as other things but immediately showing their true intention (Mac vs. PC), with the open statement to continue, including the insertion of the debate into unrelated threads posted by others.
That's clearly trolling... it simply is.

Open forums are great.
If you want to see a forum become more closed... support this guy.

- zevo

does not matter one iota. In many markets Laptops are outselling Desktops and they share they same design characteristic that you again carelessly poo-pooed. This is IMO why you are having such a hard time.

What i'm ripping on is that a 24" i-mac has a 24", waste of money screen.
a Laptop screen is typically 15"to 17", a similar seperate monitor can be had for around £100 (and that's counting the crappy high prices we pay here in the UK)
however, a 24" screen, of the quality you'll find on an imac will set you back a cool £500 plus.

to my eyes throwing away a £500 (thousand dollar) screen after a year or two is not just stupid, it makes you certifiably insane.

As for people buying laptops by the truckload, well, consider this. how many people do you see on tains and planes using laptops to watch movies, type up reports, prepare presentations, design mechanical components, play games etc? loads. That is the appeal of the laptop.
I think you'd be viewed in quite a negative light if you were to pull out something as large as an i-mac on board an aircraft. I don't see how they share that design characteristic - portability.

I also still stand by my comments that personally, I think the i-macs are also the single most repulsively ugly pieces of technology to be released in living memory. I also know that that is my opinion, and it is therefore subjective, and not an objective fact.

I also still stand by my comments that personally, I think the i-macs are also the single most repulsively ugly pieces of technology to be released in living memory. I also know that that is my opinion, and it is therefore subjective, and not an objective fact.

ok no prob...they certainly aren't for everyone.

I do hope I get more than 2 years life out of it. I got AppleCare, and will not let them out of this obligation like they got out of the previous 2 (ipod/macbook... my fault on the macbook... theirs on the ipod).

it should still work in two years, what i see happening is that as more and more cores become commonplace, the hardware requirements for running your choice of software may well make it completely obsolete in that time. Again, time will tell.
Generally, my tech-head friends and colleagues tend to do a major upgrade every two years or so, and non tech-obsessed folk tend to upgrade every three to four years.

EDIT:
just thought of my mother's computer. Whenever I use it, i notice it's gone a bit long in the tooth, so next time i'm over, i'll take a few hand-me down parts, and boost it a bit.
The other day she was asking me why I was talking to a friend about upgrading again, when her computer's remained unchanged for years, but it still runs new programs fine!
I didn't bother explaining!

In three of them he was helpful to others and didn't once use the A word. In another he offered help then said he was moving to mac and several jumped on him for it but he didn't take the bait. The original poster expressed his gratitude for his help. That leaves a P5 thread that was pretty darn mild and then the Performance/Productivity thread and this one, both of which went on and on not because axe couldn't control himself but because others couldn't. You don't have to look too many posts away to see what I mean.

I think that prior to the Performance/Productivity thread Axe *was* your typical forum member. But from that point on, he seemed to have one purpose, and one purpose only. And I honestly think it simply annoyed a lot of people. But we already know about his "special abilities" in this area, don't we...

So, it seems we need to have a moderated forum space so that we can be safe from folks who are unable to stop themselves from piling on someone with unpopular ideas?

I agree, the pile on has certainly been a factor in all this. But at the same time, "unpopular ideas" seems like a drastic understatement IMO - constantly toting the Mac Supremacy (hey, good movie title!) on what is essentially a Windows based forum seems a litte over the top... In my mind it would be like pointing out why Linux is the best OS available, Cakewalk should port to it, and every Windows user really should switch. And then doing it over, and over, and over... Hey, wait a minute, that's already been done.

ORIGINAL: D.Triny
namecalling?? LOLZ yawn

I would call it an accurate description. If it looks, smells, sounds and acts like a fanboy, it usually is one. The lack of logical thoughts speaks for itself.

does not matter one iota.

Oh boy...

In many markets Laptops are outselling Desktops and they share they same design characteristic that you again carelessly poo-pooed. This is IMO why you are having such a hard time.

I'm not having a hard time at all. It might seem that way to you as you are having a hard time seing the big picture. Just as you have a hard time with extrapolation and logic in general.

The fact that alot of people buy laptops (or iMacs) doesn't make it a good idea. We all know that the majority of people buying computers for personal use don't really know what they are doing and don't know the pros and cons of all the various options.

Hopefully someone looking at purchasing a new DAW will either know what they are doing or do some research to find out what the best option for them is.

So which markets are outselling laptops over desktops and for what reasons? I can think of a few:

- Mobility being the primary one (not applicable to a 24" iMac).
- Built-in "power conditioning" aspect of a laptop power supply which can be very usefull in areas with poor power (again, not applicable to an iMac)
- No need for desktop performance (not entirely applicable anymore as laptops are so powerfull these days and also not entirely applicable in this forum). Still not a good argument as the equivalent dekstop would be cheaper.
- Ignorance and foolishness: I see many people buying laptops and setting them on a desk never to move again. As laptops are usually more expensive than equivalent desktops, this is a bad investement IMO.
- Space considerations: Laptops are smaller but you can just shove a desktop under a desk so again, not a very good argument IMO.

Laptops tend to be propriatary, quickly outdated and almost non-upgradeable. The same goes for the iMacs. The way I see it, iMacs have all the negatives of a laptop without the benefits.

I would have to check the whole Apple range but I think they are missing mid-range machines which means that a Mac Pro might be too expensive and, lacking alternatives, the iMac is the next best solution if you want a Mac. Of course on the long term, as the machine is not really upgradable and the screen goes out with the computer at EOL, this is not a good thing for the buyer. On the other hand, it is great for Apple. They can resell the whole shebang, computer+screen, to the less than idealy informed punter. Apple really know how to squeeze every penny out of their customers.

I would declare categorically that this is a lie. You are not necessarily a liar, but this is a lie.

Oh you think you can read my thoughts? The only thing you are good at is jumping to faulty conclusions. Just as others, I am countering all the crap from you guys. That does not mean I am against Macs per say. But that seems too complicated for you to grasp.

whenever you have to declare what has been "obviously demonstrated" to everyone on a forum it means you are trying to convince them to see it from your point of view. If it is obvious, it is obvious...pointing it out is then not necessary. Think on these things

I didn't have to. I felt like pointing out what is obvious to some. And it doesn't seem so obvious to you guys as you are still at it. Unless of course you are both trolls...

UnderTow

But it is true. Audio metronome, Freeze. Those were fought verociously, now they are lauded.

Now, if someone brings up Instrument Tracks, or Any-feature-a-guitarist-doesn't-need, same story. It is an endemic problem on this forum. I defended a Mac port based simply on the terrible anti-progress history displayed on this forum, quite often. Cakewalk receives bad information because of it.

ORIGINAL: UnderTow

ORIGINAL: jb

What's weird is that so many of them display the rather unattractive trait of wanting to prevent others from realizing their interests.

But that isn't true. What most people are against is Cakewalk wasting precious resources on porting Sonar to a niche OS instead of improving Sonar itself.

Also, if Sonar is ported to the Mac, EVERYONE will have to share the cost burden of that. It is highly unlikely that Cakewalk will sell an OS-X version of Sonar for 8 times the price of the Windows version. (8 times is just a guess. Not an exact figure ;).

There is nothing wrong with asking for a port but when every possible argument in favour of the port is blown away (admitedly you need the to understand the arguments and not be so delusional as to ignore them all and only look at your own narrow minded view) and many arguments against porting are given then anyone with half a brain would realise that the request isn't realistic and rather selfish.

I, and I am guessing most people, are against letting a few others realising their selfish interest at a large cost to everyone else especially when they can allready use Sonar on their Macs!

UnderTow

I, and I am guessing most people, are against letting a few others realizing their selfish interest at a large cost to everyone else especially when they can already use Sonar on their Macs!

I was under the impression that any decision to port would come from Cake and not from this newsgroup but apparently I was mistaken. Of course there are many improvements and features now in Sonar that were originally disdained as already achievable in some other way and of interest only to a selfish few but we can let that go too. Don't worry, having been branded a troll for merely entertaining the idea, I'll leave the field to you. Enjoy.

Running Sonar on OS-X will NOT bring integration with iLife or any of those other things that AXE keeps raving about.

That's been one of my key points all along. It's one thing to have an OS preference and to want your favorite DAW to run natively on it - OK, that makes pefect sense to me, and the same thing has been requested many times over with Linux. I don't agree with it, but there's a basic logic there. However, repeatedly pointing out reasons that seem to have no relevancy to using Sonar itself, well, that doesn't seem as logical...at least to me.

Then again, look at the topic we're discussing, and then the title of this thread.

I defended a Mac port based simply on the terrible anti-progress history displayed on this forum, quite often. Cakewalk receives bad information because of it.

no question about it. This is really no different to me than the campaign to bring virtual instruments to Cakewalk. As a result the SONAR user base is much larger, even though at the time the argument was that serious professionals wouldn't want no stinkin instruments in their DAW.

ohhh shudder if Cakewalk ports to OSX the sky will fall...really!

ORIGINAL: D.Triny
oh really? weren't you the one I recall who admitted he couldn't count

I misread the 5 in 957 as a 9. My response was a joke but you seem to have missed that entirely. And the fact that you call that a lack of logical thoughts supports my assertion that you can't think logicaly and don't even understand what logic actuall is.

oh yes you are.

Whatever....

ok so you are greater than the majority of people. Oh Great Hope. I bow in thy presence.

As far as computer knowledge is concerned? Most certainly! And your sarcasm is just stupid.

the point is it's silly to "argue" about taste. To bust your liver arguing against someone's taste/preference is bizarre to me.

Taste? I am not arguing about taste nor is anyone else. If AXE and his little monkey boy (you) would have just said that they prefered Macs over PCs then that would have been the end of the discussion. But the two fanboys (you) keep bringing false and stupid "arguments" in favour of Macs so the discussion continues.

I am giving real practical reasons why an iMac is not a good investement for the buyer or for the environement. (No I didn't state that explicitly but maybe if you really concentrate you might understand that throwing away a screen for no good reason but being stupid enough to buy a badly designed computer to start with is not good for the environement). Sure some people don't give a toss about practical reasoning. Thats their problem. It doesn't make an iMac a good investment.

ok don't buy one. see how easy?

I certainly don't intend to buy one but that doesn't mean that others and me can't point out that they are bad investments for all practical purpouses. Remember, it is the two fanboys here (thats you and AXE in case you had forgotten) that keep touting the wonders Macs. Some of us are just here to bring some sanity back into the discussion. Not that you would understand any of it...

despite the benefits of laptops, this same issue exists for them right. Companies still get the benefit of "reselling the whole shebang, computer+screen" and not only Apple.

Yes but as you yourself point out, they do have benefits that iMacs don't have (and as someone else pointed out, they don't have 24" screens). And anwyay, even if other companies offer bad designs (many do) how does that in any way make an iMac a good design? It doesn't! But, as usual, logic isn't part of your reasoning. You are just having a knee-jerk reaction like a little kid caught doing something bad pointing his finger at another kid and saying "but he also did something bad".

ok? how but other companies?

Some do some don't but Apple have the advantage of a clientele that is typicaly rather gullible and not renown for their practical thinking. Apple themselves bank on the "trendyness" of their products to sell them. Thats their public. A bit like Audiophool companies.

Never did I write that Apple was the only company doing this.

nope. I cannot read your thoughts. but I can spot a lie.

In your imagination, sure.

I think most of the others are doing fine, you seem to be eating the so-called crap, tasty?

Obviously not or I would allready have a Mac which I don't. Duh. But it seems that you are admiting that you are a troll...

yes you did.. you are compelled to reply. because we say so.

Riiiiiight. Delusions of grandeur?

aww tell me how you really feel. I thought the logical thing to do was "not feed the trolls" So either you are not logical or you aren't dealing with trolls. Parse that one when you have a minute.

It might be the wise thing to do but responding doesn't always have to do with logic. Sometimes it can be amusing to feed the trolls to see what more crap they will come up with. You are doing very well in the crap department.

As long as you fanboys keep spouting more crap which gets exposed as such, things are still fine.

Oh and learn to quote. It might take you a while but if you concentrate, you might just manage...

UnderTow

ORIGINAL: D.Triny

no question about it. This is really no different to me than the campaign to bring virtual instruments to Cakewalk.

Duh. This is entirely different. Vritual instruments are a benefit even if some people couldn't see that at the time. Porting Sonar to OS-X will NOT improve Sonar at all and has negative aspects which have been explained clearly. That is if you can understand the arguments...

ohhh shudder if Cakewalk ports to OSX the sky will fall...really!

No it won't but it will cost everyone and will not bring any benefits. I'm still waiting for one of the fanboys to give a good argument for porting Sonar to OS-X.

I think what you really want is an iMac to run Cubase.

UnderTow

Getting quite nasty there now D.Triny. Seems to be a trait amongst the mac fanboys here.. When all else fails attack the posters credibility/intelligence/nationality etc etc etc

not really. If you look very very closely you'll see objectionable behavior is not being monopolized by so-called mac fanboys. But since it is a new label for me to try on, it will accept it. The Community has called me MAC Fanboy. coolness. Problem is I also like Windows...so hoo boy.

Now if you want to try to identify and evaluate "traits" among groups of people I would say you are approaching prejudice...which of course is nothing new.

And we're all still waiting for Axes reply to the 16 cpu Boxx.
Come on Axe ... jb reckons you didn't block us at all.
So you can still see this yeah?

What's your response to the Boxx machine?