Jeff Evans
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/17 23:50:19
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John I get your point about defending your name but really who cares. Nearly everyone here knows who the good people really are (Craig included) so they don't have to waste time defending their name. There is always going to be somebody who does not like something about someone and takes a shot. Do you have to get all huffed about it though. Hardly, just ignore it and move on. That is what the thick skin thing is all about I suppose. And move on with some interesting ideas instead. If you really believe in what good you are doing no amount of bad stuff should have any effect. If someone is saying bad things about someone else or taking pot shots no amount of name defending is going to change that. That is why it is silly to get drawn into that. That is how they are and we should just accept it. Forums are full of people who don't make the most of them and get too involved in other less useful stuff. You are delusional if you think you are going to rid an entire forum of those people. If you keep things ideas based those people eventually die off and go away because in the end they are not just contributing anything useful. Ideas win out every time. That is what Eleanor Roosevelt said and I think they are great words. I am sorry (to John and Craig) if my post seemed to criticise Craig. It was not intended to do that in fact the opposite. I think Craig is very professional and a bit above all that actually, that was what I was trying to say. (probably phrased it wrong) He is a great educator and as an educator myself I certainly admire him. I have learned a lot from him, and read a lot of his books etc. (Still have the that book Midi for Musicians! And anyone who can sit on the same panel as Dave Smith, Tom Oberheim, Alan Parsons and Jordan Rudess and George Duke has to be pretty OK in my book!) Bub has been talking ideas mostly actually, and I like him for it. It is some others that are talking too much about people. I agree with John in that the forum overall is a very good thing I really believe that it's main purpose is to serve us. I think it does pretty well don't you agree! There are some great people on this forum. Danny Danzi has got be one of the best! Now there is an ideas person. Never talks about people much but ideas never stop coming. It is OK to talk about people if you are saying nice things about them!
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2013/02/18 01:07:54
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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sharke
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/17 23:55:46
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Calm down everyone. 
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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musicroom
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 00:13:03
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I wonder if Cake dropped X2 and went in another direction if it too could then become as loved as 8.5. Until then and for the record, I loved it first!
:)
Dave Songs___________________________________ Desktop: Platinum / RME Multiface II / Purrfect Audio DAW I7-3770 / 16 GB RAM / Win 10 Pro / Remote Laptop i7 6500U / 12GB RAM / RME Babyface
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Anderton
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 01:25:45
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Jeff Evans
The thread should be about ideas and not people. It is the silly people who keep it on track re people.
John I get your point about defending your name but really who cares. Nearly everyone here knows who the good people really are (Craig included) so they don't have to waste time defending their name. There is always going to be somebody who does not like something about someone and takes a shot. Do you have to get all huffed about it though. Jeff, I enjoy your posts because you engage in discussions, while presenting reality-based opinions. You understand how to use, and contribute to, a forum. This thread was never about ideas. Its premise was to unearth an article that hit the newsstands in late November/early December 2012 and was written in October 2012. Why? Was it attempt to educate people? To present ideas that would help Sonar users? To lodge a valid complaint to try to rally people to support getting the bakers to change something? No. It was strictly to stir up crap. Other people, not realizing the thread was based on a faulty premise, jumped on the bandwagon. Around post #15 I thought I better say something, so I did. I said Bub wasn't bad, that he simply didn't do his research, which I have to do because, well, I write things and put my name on them. Then I gave factual, idea-based, refutations involving quotes from actual forum members from around the time the article was written to address the initial post. My last sentence in my initial post was admittedly snarky, but I wasn’t going to let the phrase “we all know the article is inaccurate” get off scot-free. Anyone with integrity would have said "Okay, I get it, I didn't realize the circumstances around which the article was written." And no apology would have been necessary or even make sense, because the original premise would have been based on not understanding something, instead of taking a cheap shot in the form of a personal attack. I’ve been moderating forums for 18 years and on BBS systems for over a decade prior to that. Moderators classify people like GlennP as the archetypal “can dish it out but can’t take it.” He never responded to my posting of facts; he just distanced himself from his initial premise, and descended into ad hominem attacks while feigning superiority. I’m not attacking him by saying this; read his posts. I’m summarizing. As to defending my name, the only “product” I have is credibility because without that, reviews, articles, videos, recordings, etc. mean nothing. If GlennP came into a forum and said he was at a restaurant where the waiter urinated in his soup and that never happened, you can bet that restaurant would be out there defending itself. Some people don’t know who I am, and might actually believe his premise was valid. I can handle posts that exemplify condescension, but I feel only a bully would make a statement like this: “I state this because it seems to me that a significant number of forum members (like backwoods and jb101) think it’s a toy to fill in the hours of an unfulfilled existence. Too much spare time they have, because they no longer can make it as a muso. You need to stop and realise that you are emotionally and artistically crippled and all that is left for you is to play with yourself in your bedrooms and pretend… Oh what might have been… If only…” I don’t like bullies. When I see one, the Mongol blood in me rises to the surface (yes, there’s Mongol blood in there). My brother had cerebral palsy and this bully named Jack like to attack him physically. Jack was a sports guy, strong and also, evil. He was 16, I was 10. One day I couldn’t take it any more. I beat the living crap out of Jack until he was bleeding from places he probably shouldn’t have been bleeding. I wasn’t stronger, but I had motivation...like those women who lift up a car that pinned a child. He never attacked my brother again. Or me, for that matter. I still don’t know how I managed to beat him up. And I’ve never gotten in a physical fight since. But it left me with a very, very, very strong dislike for bullies that I carry to this day. If people think I’ve sullied my reputation as a nice guy because I decided to take on someone for making a personal attack, I cannot disagree. I try whenever possible to take the high road. But if someone challenges me to a duel, I reserve the right to accept. And when he bullies other people in this forum, I will definitely accept. However, I also need to say one more thing. You won’t be seeing as much of me here soon, and I didn’t want anyone to think that some of the people were sufficiently toxic to negate all the wonderful, knowledgeable, and helpful people who make up the majority of this forum, and therefore draw the erroneous conclusion that they drove me away. Far from it. There has been a major change in my life; the press release will be going out this week. I will be involved for the foreseeable future in spearheading a world-wide educational initiative involving music, and it will take up a lot of my time. I'll still write articles, give lectures, and perform because that’s actually part of my job description. And I’ll still take “quick glances”  here to gauge which subjects need to be covered in articles like my Sonar column. But, my time will be at even more of a premium than it is now. There is much to do, and more years behind me than ahead of me, so I need to get moving. Finally, for the record...I have zero doubt that if Bub and I were sitting in a bar, we’d have some great conversations.
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pbognar
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 01:55:55
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Anderton
vintagevibe
Anderton
Admittedly, it is difficult to reason people out of positions they didn't use reason to attain. That's the best quote I've seen in a long time. I should put it in my signature!
Glad you liked it
Actually you're a fine example of someone with a realistic view of Sonar and software in general. FWIW, my "Staff View remains primitive" under the reviews "Cons" section is an hommage to your comments, and was directly inspired by same. I do pay attention to the negatives; for many people, Staff View is a big one and is worth pointing out. Just because it doesn't matter to me is irrelevant; it matters to some people, and therefore needs to be mentioned.
Wow - glad I didn't stumble onto this thread until now - it would have messed up my weekend. I've re-read the EM review (this was back from mid-December, and there was no X2a patch yet). It short and succinct and factual. I recall my reaction to X2: 1) "Cr@p - another major release and and Staff View gets no love - I'm not upgrading until we get some SV love" (thanks for pointing out the primitive SV in each of your reviews). 2) Seeing the list of features and fixes in X2 and not being entirely impressed 3) Seeing this video and thinking - "they did put some nice things in here" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3eeSD9uPqw 4) A generally positive response to the X2 video on the forum 5) General X2 love with some folks having issues 6) X2a patch is released and Sonar works much better for some and much worse of others 7) Hoping that X2b will make things stable for those having issues (Sonar issues, that is) 8) The forum melting down a couple of times due to trolls and frustrated users I'm assuming that a majority of users are able to be productive on X2a. Genuine posts on the forum are from those currently having problems, either because of user error, drivers, hardware issues etc. or from new or existing users testing the waters to see if it is safe to come into the X2 water yet. I hate to see personal attacks here. At the same time, I believe it is ok to hold Cakewalk up to a certain standard. What Cakewalk have released is a complex piece of software which is functional on what is considered to be a typical DAW hardware / software environment. What is needed is a version of that software which is a little less sensitive to environments which deviate from typical, addresses some documented bugs, and has an improved Staff View (sorry, that last one if for the vocal minority...) [sorry Craig - didn't know you were posting while I was prattling on. I pretty much hold the record for being a thread killer]
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chuckebaby
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 03:31:29
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has anyone forgot cakewalk let's us use this site to sovle our issues.
or is it because a web page opens up on your computer display we automatically think its our forum where you can stand up on our perch and exersize your freedom of speech acts.
anyone here like to see another section of this forum opened up for complaints?
maybe call it..i dont know...Complaints.
there's just too much random garbage spewed in with sonar x1/x2 threads now.it used to be for legit questions for users to ask questions and get help.
so what happen?
i think its whats happening in a lot of places not just here on this forum.
its called respect.respect is little and far between now a day.
you used to have to earn respect.that doesnt even seem to work anymore.
i had a very productive night tonight,i know alot of you might not want to hear it but i finished tracking and mixing my new song(i just posted it in the forum"Jack it up") for over 6 hours straight.i didnt have one problem.not one.
now i know x2 isnt perfect but i think its far from having people claiming its broken.
that is a very harsh word to use.
to me broken means..it dont..at all...its broken.
now if you use the word,not working properly..that goes long way with me.cause i can understand that,i can also understand i might not be using some of the same features as some of you and there for things im not using,im not noticing
but G-dm it.
ive spent over 20 hours this past week on 5 songs.
the worst that happen to me was "sonarpdr.exe was running so i couldnt open up sonar.(i imagine it was because the way i closed a project or something.) so rebooted and was back in bizz.
i think craigs story in electronic musician is true in even present day.
there are a lot of users out there having good luck with it.like me.
PRV,groove clips,midi,audio,audio snap,take lanes(even though i hate them)im doing alot on it.
the one thing i think really needs attention is the staff view..why because i use it? no,i ive never used the staff view,i cant stand it.
but a lot of other users seem to have concerns so im putting my head out there and hoping the best for you.
i think we have a lot of fun here at this place.
but i do think sooner or later if the big dogs are poping in reading our threads are going to say one thing "Are we paying for this forum" ?
there going to say its an eye sore and remove it.
think about it,if you were someone up there in roland managment reading this forum,would you let it go on?
there will always be new users,its a buisiness.
dont think because youve had 5 paid upgrades your family.its a buisiness.
for some x2 is running and running well,now you might say well what about these people here on the forum?
the large number of users that dont have problems are not here on the forum..how do i know this?
because ive been using cakewalk since pro audio 9 and i only joined this forum 2 years ago.
there was no need to start this thread like you did glenn.
if your miserable in life,go find another hobby.
or learn to discuss a topic in a more mature manner.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 03:55:58
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Anderton
However, I also need to say one more thing. You won’t be seeing as much of me here soon, and I didn’t want anyone to think that some of the people were sufficiently toxic to negate all the wonderful, knowledgeable, and helpful people who make up the majority of this forum, and therefore draw the erroneous conclusion that they drove me away. Far from it. There has been a major change in my life; the press release will be going out this week. I will be involved for the foreseeable future in spearheading a world-wide educational initiative involving music, and it will take up a lot of my time. I'll still write articles, give lectures, and perform because that’s actually part of my job description. And I’ll still take “quick glances” here to gauge which subjects need to be covered in articles like my Sonar column. But, my time will be at even more of a premium than it is now. There is much to do, and more years behind me than ahead of me, so I need to get moving.
Craig, I sincerely hope everything works out for you in your new venture - it sounds like a fantastic opportunity and one well suited to your unique combination of skills. I'm glad to read that you're still planning on writing your SOS column - this has been a lifesaver for me on more than one occasion in the past.
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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LJB
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 04:05:23
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A quick glance at my current projects, and most of me concurs that X2 is indeed pretty decent, save a bug or two. Works over here.
Ludwig Bouwer, One Big Room Studios.
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Cakewalk with all the trimmings / Win 10Pro 64 / Intel i7-7700 / Asus Prime Z270k / 16GB DDR4 / RME HDSP9652 / RME UFX / Black Lion Audio ADA8000 / ART MPA & ART Pro Channel / Focusrite Voicemaster Pro / Aphex 107
Check out my work at www.onebigroom.co.za
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Grem
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 05:57:37
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Well said Craig.
Good luck in your new endeavors.
Grem
Michael Music PC i7 2600K; 64gb Ram; 3 256gb SSD, System, Samples, Audio; 1TB & 2TB Project Storage; 2TB system BkUp; RME FireFace 400; Win 10 Pro 64; CWbBL 64, Home PCAMD FX 6300; 8gb Ram; 256 SSD sys; 2TB audio/samples; Realtek WASAPI; Win 10 Home 64; CWbBL 64 Surface Pro 3Win 10 i7 8gb RAM; CWbBL 64
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 07:19:56
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Good luck with the new endeavors Craig!!!
best regards,
mike
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trimph1
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 08:26:20
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Good luck on those new endeavours Craig...let us know how that goes!!!
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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AT
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 09:54:33
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That should be interesting, Genghis, I mean Craig. Best wishes on the new venture.
;-)
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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pbognar
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 10:29:39
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Good luck Craig.
We'll miss a voice of reason... I mean sonar, err.. live
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Bub 
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 11:05:04
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chuckebaby
there's just too much random garbage spewed in with sonar x1/x2 threads now.it used to be for legit questions for users to ask questions and get help.
It's been this way since X1 was released. The flaming goes up and down over the weeks/months, but it's pretty much been like this from the beginning of the Xx forum. so what happen?
They changed too much too fast, took away too much too fast, and fixed too little too slow, and some people aren't happy about it. Some people have no problem working around bugs, others expect what they paid for to work. Neither one is wrong. i think its whats happening in a lot of places not just here on this forum.
its called respect.respect is little and far between now a day.
I think people see things that corporations do as having an air of arrogance and are pretty tired of it, mainly because there's no avoiding it anymore. There doesn't seem to be any concern for what the consumer wants any more. It's all about the people in charge at corporations doing what they can to make the bottom line look better, with really very little concern of the consumer or their needs. Prime example ... LINK. This company actually apologized and listened to their customers, but honestly ... WTF were they thinking in the first place? Who are these people in charge of these corporations making these decisions? you used to have to earn respect.that doesnt even seem to work anymore.
Again, this goes back to my previous statement about a companies arrogance. People pay for a product, and they expect it to work. When time and time again the product has bugs, support is dropped, and you're only chance of getting better support is to pay the company more money, and the cycle never ends, people get frustrated. You see this more so with software than anything else because these software developers have gotten away with it for so long that it's become the norm to expect things to be broken to a certain extent, but that doesn't stop people from feeling ripped off about it, because in reality, you are getting ripped off. If it takes Roland completely trashing Sonar and re-writing their DAW code from the ground up, then they should do it, charge for it, and support it. Nobody here would have a problem with that. i had a very productive night tonight,i know alot of you might not want to hear it but i finished tracking and mixing my new song(i just posted it in the forum"Jack it up") for over 6 hours straight.i didnt have one problem.not one.
now i know x2 isnt perfect but i think its far from having people claiming its broken.
that is a very harsh word to use.
to me broken means..it dont..at all...its broken.
now if you use the word,not working properly..that goes long way with me.cause i can understand that,i can also understand i might not be using some of the same features as some of you and there for things im not using,im not noticing
but G-dm it.
ive spent over 20 hours this past week on 5 songs.
the worst that happen to me was "sonarpdr.exe was running so i couldnt open up sonar.(i imagine it was because the way i closed a project or something.) so rebooted and was back in bizz.
Gee Chuck, who said X2 was broken? And why wouldn't anyone want to hear that you finished tracking? You need to calm down a little man. btw ... I've spent more time than you have in X2a this week. i think we have a lot of fun here at this place.
but i do think sooner or later if the big dogs are poping in reading our threads are going to say one thing "Are we paying for this forum" ?
there going to say its an eye sore and remove it.
think about it,if you were someone up there in roland managment reading this forum,would you let it go on?
Coming from a corporate environment myself, I'd venture to guess they agree with a lot of things that are said here, and let them ride because they can't say it themselves. So, I wouldn't worry about the forum being shut down. there will always be new users,its a buisiness.
dont think because youve had 5 paid upgrades your family.its a buisiness.
Exactly. It is a business. They take a consumers money for a product and the consumer expects it to work. Funny how that goes isn't it?  there was no need to start this thread like you did glenn.
if your miserable in life,go find another hobby.
or learn to discuss a topic in a more mature manner.
The thread didn't get out of hand until post #4. That's when it started deteriorating. I personally feel that you're barking up the wrong tree, but I respect your opinion.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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yorolpal
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 11:07:20
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stevec
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 11:26:28
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The thread didn't get out of hand until post #4. That's when it started deteriorating. I personally feel that you're barking up the wrong tree, but I respect your opinion Well... in post # 7 you did write this: "We all know his article isn't accurate ... but if you say anything, then you're the bad guy, know what I mean?" The article was written about the X2 rollout and even included that in its title. And at that time I think things around here actually *were* pretty positive, especially compared to previous rollouts. It was nice place to visit... I guess I agree with Craig on that aspect - if things would have been brought down a notch when the timeframe was first clarified, the thread may have never made it to page 5. But honestly, I really don't see it as being any one invididual's "fault" - as usual it's a group effort.  PS.... I have to ask - is there really a "Peculiar" in MO? 
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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Bub
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 11:33:37
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stevec
PS.... I have to ask - is there really a "Peculiar" in MO?
Yes sir! Population 4.6k. :)
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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chuckebaby
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 11:44:03
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bub those were metaphorical questions.
why must you think everything is aimed at you,or you feel like you need to answer everyones questions?
im not sure whats going on with you man,but everytime someone says something positive about x2 you feel that it is aimed towards your complaints.
i mentioned my song was in the forum as proof,
see im not just mentioning i have over 250 songs and not posting any of them.
if you have all those projects your talking about,or if you have spent more time in sonar x2 than me this week,what do you have to show for it?
because if you have more than 20 hours in,you must have something really great,atleast a few completed projects?
thats why i mentioned my song was in the forum.
this perticular post of mine,wasnt even aimed towards you.
but you felt as it was or felt the need to answer all these statements ive made.
every once in a while people want to make a post with out having someone go through there post with a finetooth comb.
and then tell them to calm down.
read in to my post what ever you'd like.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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Bub
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 12:12:31
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chuckebaby
bub those were metaphorical questions.
why must you think everything is aimed at you,or you feel like you need to answer everyones questions?
im not sure whats going on with you man,but everytime someone says something positive about x2 you feel that it is aimed towards your complaints.
i mentioned my song was in the forum as proof,
see im not just mentioning i have over 250 songs and not posting any of them.
if you have all those projects your talking about,or if you have spent more time in sonar x2 than me this week,what do you have to show for it?
because if you have more than 20 hours in,you must have something really great,atleast a few completed projects?
thats why i mentioned my song was in the forum.
this perticular post of mine,wasnt even aimed towards you.
but you felt as it was or felt the need to answer all these statements ive made.
every once in a while people want to make a post with out having someone go through there post with a finetooth comb.
and then tell them to calm down.
read in to my post what ever you'd like.
So ... is this post something I can comment on or not. You tell me, then I'll respond. Ok?
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 12:36:45
(permalink)
I've always been of the opinion that anyone who's paid for the software has every right to present their opinion whenever and wherever they like. Someone who's experienced nothing but trouble has as much right to say so as someone for whom the program runs like a dream.
That said, what's allowed to remain in this forum, and what is to be removed, is completely up to our hosts.
I've worked for myself in business, and I'll say one thing - although it's nice to be praised, the opinions I'd really pay attention to are the complaints. Sycophantic drivel (of the sort some around here are all too guilty of) will achieve absolutely nothing in driving the product forward, but the genuine experiences of those for whom the software isn't perfect certainly might.
By all means, use the fault reporting system and the feaure request when appropriate, but surely that doesn't mean we can't have a grown up conversation about our DAW of choice.
All too often the term "bashing Cakewalk" is just used as a euphemism for "someone who doesn't agree with me".
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Bub
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 12:50:21
(permalink)
SteveStrummerUK
I've always been of the opinion that anyone who's paid for the software has every right to present their opinion whenever and wherever they like. Someone who's experienced nothing but trouble has as much right to say so as someone for whom the program runs like a dream.
That said, what's allowed to remain in this forum, and what is to be removed, is completely up to our hosts.
I've worked for myself in business, and I'll say one thing - although it's nice to be praised, the opinions I'd really pay attention to are the complaints. Sycophantic drivel (of the sort some around here are all too guilty of) will achieve absolutely nothing in driving the product forward, but the genuine experiences of those for whom the software isn't perfect certainly might.
By all means, use the fault reporting system and the feaure request when appropriate, but surely that doesn't mean we can't have a grown up conversation about our DAW of choice.
All too often the term "bashing Cakewalk" is just used as a euphemism for "someone who doesn't agree with me".
There's something I'd like to reply to in your comment Steve. Please let me know if it's ok for me to say anything and I'll respond with my thoughts. Thanks, Bub
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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musicroom
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 12:51:15
(permalink)
Anderton: "Admittedly, it is difficult to reason people out of positions they didn't use reason to attain. Anderton
vintagevibe
Anderton
Admittedly, it is difficult to reason people out of positions they didn't use reason to attain. That's the best quote I've seen in a long time. I should put it in my signature!
Glad you liked it
Actually you're a fine example of someone with a realistic view of Sonar and software in general. FWIW, my "Staff View remains primitive" under the reviews "Cons" section is an hommage to your comments, and was directly inspired by same. I do pay attention to the negatives; for many people, Staff View is a big one and is worth pointing out. Just because it doesn't matter to me is irrelevant; it matters to some people, and therefore needs to be mentioned.
I was going to +1 that quote as well. It's a keeper and I would keep a close watch on Dr. Phil to make sure he doesn't include it in his next book Sonar Code. :)
Dave Songs___________________________________ Desktop: Platinum / RME Multiface II / Purrfect Audio DAW I7-3770 / 16 GB RAM / Win 10 Pro / Remote Laptop i7 6500U / 12GB RAM / RME Babyface
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 13:04:30
(permalink)
Bub
SteveStrummerUK
I've always been of the opinion that anyone who's paid for the software has every right to present their opinion whenever and wherever they like. Someone who's experienced nothing but trouble has as much right to say so as someone for whom the program runs like a dream.
That said, what's allowed to remain in this forum, and what is to be removed, is completely up to our hosts.
I've worked for myself in business, and I'll say one thing - although it's nice to be praised, the opinions I'd really pay attention to are the complaints. Sycophantic drivel (of the sort some around here are all too guilty of) will achieve absolutely nothing in driving the product forward, but the genuine experiences of those for whom the software isn't perfect certainly might.
By all means, use the fault reporting system and the feaure request when appropriate, but surely that doesn't mean we can't have a grown up conversation about our DAW of choice.
All too often the term "bashing Cakewalk" is just used as a euphemism for "someone who doesn't agree with me".
There's something I'd like to reply to in your comment Steve.
Please let me know if it's ok for me to say anything and I'll respond with my thoughts.
Thanks,
Bub
Fire away good sir
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CTStump
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 14:04:48
(permalink)
Uh oh, I think this thread is destined for the Coffee House, Bapu needs to add to his post count anyway.
I agree though, Cakewalk did stick around on the release and help with a lot of the issues folk's were having then. Sonar is a complex piece of software and that itself would contribute to the problems as it get's used after release, everyone has there own way of working and is bound to find something not working the way they expected it to work(or not fixed to satisfaction).
Most reasonable people would understand the risk and roll with the punches until it's totally intolerable and move on others post the displeasure in hopes to remedy to issues. It's a risk of running a Product Forum.
Sonar 8.5PE
Project 5.2
Self Built 2.6Ghz dual core AMD 5200+
8 Gb DDR Ram
Windows Vista 64
Emu 1616 pci
Various collection of old musical toys
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Paul P
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 14:09:43
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CTStump : "Sonar is a complex piece of software and that itself would contribute to the problems as it get's used after release, everyone has there own way of working and is bound to find something not working the way they expected it to work(or not fixed to satisfaction)."
Man, imagine if this philosophy were applied to cars. Or just about any other product.
What gives Cakewalk the right to use its customers as test pilots ?
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CTStump
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 14:24:00
(permalink)
Paul P
CTStump : "Sonar is a complex piece of software and that itself would contribute to the problems as it get's used after release, everyone has there own way of working and is bound to find something not working the way they expected it to work(or not fixed to satisfaction)."
Man, imagine if this philosophy were applied to cars. Or just about any other product.
What gives Cakewalk the right to use its customers as test pilots ?
Okay I'll bite, Buy a Tesla and if a problem arises due to a Battery issue ref article: http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-02-15/business/37110253_1_review-car-battery-elon-musk Tesla's are not a shade tree mechanic's idea of a workable car, they are highly complex machines. The review in question found problems driving the vehicle and Tesla responded that certain conditions outside there operating standards were not utilized, an expensive car having problems go figure. Adobe Audition 2 came with MIDI, it never worked(at least as intended) even through version 3. Still even without that it was well worth using for everything else. They dropped it after that. Not saying nobody has a beef here just saying in the million ways people do things it's impossible to encounter every issue that will show up.
Sonar 8.5PE
Project 5.2
Self Built 2.6Ghz dual core AMD 5200+
8 Gb DDR Ram
Windows Vista 64
Emu 1616 pci
Various collection of old musical toys
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rcrees
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 15:01:34
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Paul P
Man, imagine if this philosophy were applied to cars. Or just about any other product.
What gives Cakewalk the right to use its customers as test pilots ?
I'm assuming you're using a WINDOWS machine...? Not only does Microsoft use their users as "test pilots" but they continuously change the playing field by shoving countless updates down their throats. Your system changes with every update. Anyone using Windows has been a beta user since 1990... Cheers, Rob
http://www.rcreesmusic.com Dell XPS 8300, Intel Core i7, 8gigs ram, AMD Radeon 6670, Two SATA II 500gig hard drives, one 250gig external USB drive, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, M-Audio Keystation 61es, Windows 7 Home Premium, SONAR X3 Producer, many sample libraries including EastWest PLAYx64 Gold Complete, RA, Stormdrum and Choirs
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trimph1
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 17:13:50
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Oh boy...using a car as a metaphor for simplicity is kind of a joke...unless you are talking about pre-1975. Then you can talk simplicity.
Even then....
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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chuckebaby
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 17:52:48
(permalink)
Bub
SteveStrummerUK
I've always been of the opinion that anyone who's paid for the software has every right to present their opinion whenever and wherever they like. Someone who's experienced nothing but trouble has as much right to say so as someone for whom the program runs like a dream.
That said, what's allowed to remain in this forum, and what is to be removed, is completely up to our hosts.
I've worked for myself in business, and I'll say one thing - although it's nice to be praised, the opinions I'd really pay attention to are the complaints. Sycophantic drivel (of the sort some around here are all too guilty of) will achieve absolutely nothing in driving the product forward, but the genuine experiences of those for whom the software isn't perfect certainly might.
By all means, use the fault reporting system and the feaure request when appropriate, but surely that doesn't mean we can't have a grown up conversation about our DAW of choice.
All too often the term "bashing Cakewalk" is just used as a euphemism for "someone who doesn't agree with me".
There's something I'd like to reply to in your comment Steve.
Please let me know if it's ok for me to say anything and I'll respond with my thoughts.
Thanks,
Bub
Childish.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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Bub
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/18 18:14:39
(permalink)
chuckebaby
Bub
SteveStrummerUK
I've always been of the opinion that anyone who's paid for the software has every right to present their opinion whenever and wherever they like. Someone who's experienced nothing but trouble has as much right to say so as someone for whom the program runs like a dream.
That said, what's allowed to remain in this forum, and what is to be removed, is completely up to our hosts.
I've worked for myself in business, and I'll say one thing - although it's nice to be praised, the opinions I'd really pay attention to are the complaints. Sycophantic drivel (of the sort some around here are all too guilty of) will achieve absolutely nothing in driving the product forward, but the genuine experiences of those for whom the software isn't perfect certainly might.
By all means, use the fault reporting system and the feaure request when appropriate, but surely that doesn't mean we can't have a grown up conversation about our DAW of choice.
All too often the term "bashing Cakewalk" is just used as a euphemism for "someone who doesn't agree with me".
There's something I'd like to reply to in your comment Steve.
Please let me know if it's ok for me to say anything and I'll respond with my thoughts.
Thanks,
Bub
Childish.
Sad. I thought I knew you better than this. I was completely wrong. Good luck with your music Chuck.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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