jb101
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/16 20:45:16
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vintagevibe
Anderton
Admittedly, it is difficult to reason people out of positions they didn't use reason to attain. That's the best quote I've seen in a long time. I should put it in my signature!
I thought the same. I may have to do it now.
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stratman70
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/16 20:47:00
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I am assuming everyone here reads the same language.
Why the fanboiz crap again. Every year or so someone takes up the torch and slams anyone who dares to say that Sonar works for them. You get accused of all kinds of lies and misinformation. Problem is, the 15% see it the other way. I have NEVER< EVER bashed or bad mouthed ANYONE for saying they have issues with Sonar.
Of course there are those with issues. I have never jumped on anyone because of an ISSUE that stated they had.
But,I do take offense and will continue to do so with those that find it incredible to believe that Some of us (as in the majority) don't have any show stopping issues.
Like I said before go back and read 3 months of posts. Pick any period without the 2 recent trolls in it.
Go back 2 years. Then go back 4 years. Then go back 6 years. It's always the same. Just thenames change.
I get angry when I have to defend myself because Sonar is OK running on my TWO systems for all I do.
Recently I had to defend that I record audio-only because I said I record a lot of midi and use many softsynths.
That is the stuff that gets me mad. Many of you guys seem to see only one side of the story. Well, guess what, I can copy & paste many times where I was called a liar, outright orwith inuendo because I stated how I work and it does work.
I truly wish it all would stop-but with certain folks it never will . So I can only hope they find another daw and then they can disrupt that forum.
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Beepster
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/16 20:50:22
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To say Craig is just a journalist is like saying Zappa was just a guy with a beard. Come on, man.
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jb101
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/16 20:56:30
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I had to change my sig.
I hope there are no copyright issues..
Thanks, Craig.
SONAR, for what I do, IS AWESOME.
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Bub 
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/16 20:59:39
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"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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jb101
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/16 21:01:44
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Bub
Lynn
Ho...hum
+1
Ho hum indeed. Pass the bili specs..
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Bub
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/16 21:05:21
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I don't understand how a group of such 'positive' people can be so angry?
I mean ... at least, according to you guys, I'm inherently angry.
What's your excuse?
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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jb101
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/16 21:08:26
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Bub
I don't understand how a group of such 'positive' people can be so angry?
I mean ... at least, according to you guys, I'm inherently angry.
What's your excuse?
I'm not angry, Bub. As I have posted many times, I'm amused. I think it's funny. Please don't project. You're one of the most entertaining people here,
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backwoods
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/16 21:09:29
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You're not angry just extremely negative. But at least you bought the software unlike some other whiners :)
Just move yourself to the coffee house and let the rest of us wallow in our irrational enjoyment of Cakewalk software.
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MrQuestion
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/16 21:15:45
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For me I think it was a pretty smooth Roll out.
Went from X1 Prod to X2 Prod
I think the attention paid to getting the X2 Download files and support were much improved over X1.
My biggest gripe so far is that drawing automation envelopes is totally messed up - Can we get the automation cursor to be sitting on the point of the cursor??? I'm baffled by that one.
And when you release the mouse button, can the envelope just stay where I drew it? It bounces up a few DB (or whatever I'm editing's unit of measurement is)
And it makes editing envelopes REALLY REALLY messed up.
Otherwise I like it a lot.
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jb101
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/16 21:17:32
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Well, I'm off to bed.
Thank you for this thread. I will be subscribing to the Electronic Musician's newsletters, and it reminded me to subscribes to Craig's youtube channel.
Thanks again.
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Bub
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/16 21:18:10
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backwoods
You're not angry just extremely negative. But at least you bought the software unlike some other whiners :)
Just move yourself to the coffee house and let the rest of us wallow in our irrational enjoyment of Cakewalk software.
I see ... so, you don't like it when people tell it like it is. You like things sugar coated. Ok, fair enough. But you really didn't answer the question. What's your excuse for posts like this one I'm replying to there Mr. Angry? I mean ... telling someone to get out of the forum is pretty hostile if you ask me. And honestly, something that should be reported, but I won't do it. Cakewalk isn't listening right now.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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jb101
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/16 21:24:38
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Bub
backwoods
You're not angry just extremely negative. But at least you bought the software unlike some other whiners :)
Just move yourself to the coffee house and let the rest of us wallow in our irrational enjoyment of Cakewalk software.
I see ... so, you don't like it when people tell it like it is. You like things sugar coated.
Ok, fair enough.
But you really didn't answer the question.
What's your excuse for posts like this one I'm replying to there Mr. Angry?
I mean ... telling someone to get out of the forum is pretty hostile if you ask me. And honestly, something that should be reported, but I won't do it. Cakewalk isn't listening right now.
Where was he angry? Do you read all the posts? Never mind. Thanks again. Please don't think I'm stalking you, just because I reply to your posts. I know you're not always negative. http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=2781408 A little inconsistent, maybe.. Happy recording.
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backwoods
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/16 21:26:23
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Bub, I don't want to fire you up here so I am going to block you again. Cheerio.
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Bub
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/16 21:29:07
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backwoods
Bub, I don't want to fire you up here so I am going to block you again. Cheerio.
Sorry to hear that. You may actually learn something if you take the time to read my posts.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Bub
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/16 21:30:47
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jb101
Bub
backwoods
You're not angry just extremely negative. But at least you bought the software unlike some other whiners :)
Just move yourself to the coffee house and let the rest of us wallow in our irrational enjoyment of Cakewalk software.
I see ... so, you don't like it when people tell it like it is. You like things sugar coated.
Ok, fair enough.
But you really didn't answer the question.
What's your excuse for posts like this one I'm replying to there Mr. Angry?
I mean ... telling someone to get out of the forum is pretty hostile if you ask me. And honestly, something that should be reported, but I won't do it. Cakewalk isn't listening right now.
Where was he angry?
The part where he says, "move yourself to the coffee house". Doesn't sound like something a happy go lucky, positive individual says, in my opinion of course. Apparently I'm wrong about everything according to you and your friends here.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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trimph1
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/16 21:54:35
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Bub
jb101
Bub
backwoods
You're not angry just extremely negative. But at least you bought the software unlike some other whiners :)
Just move yourself to the coffee house and let the rest of us wallow in our irrational enjoyment of Cakewalk software.
I see ... so, you don't like it when people tell it like it is. You like things sugar coated.
Ok, fair enough.
But you really didn't answer the question.
What's your excuse for posts like this one I'm replying to there Mr. Angry?
I mean ... telling someone to get out of the forum is pretty hostile if you ask me. And honestly, something that should be reported, but I won't do it. Cakewalk isn't listening right now.
Where was he angry?
The part where he says, "move yourself to the coffee house".
Doesn't sound like something a happy go lucky, positive individual says, in my opinion of course. Apparently I'm wrong about everything according to you and your friends here.
No, but to continue with the same litany over and over and over can wear on one. And, anytime someone tries to post something positive it get the same litany treatment....over and over and over...... 
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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Bub
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/16 21:56:52
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trimph1
Bub
jb101
Bub
backwoods
You're not angry just extremely negative. But at least you bought the software unlike some other whiners :)
Just move yourself to the coffee house and let the rest of us wallow in our irrational enjoyment of Cakewalk software.
I see ... so, you don't like it when people tell it like it is. You like things sugar coated.
Ok, fair enough.
But you really didn't answer the question.
What's your excuse for posts like this one I'm replying to there Mr. Angry?
I mean ... telling someone to get out of the forum is pretty hostile if you ask me. And honestly, something that should be reported, but I won't do it. Cakewalk isn't listening right now.
Where was he angry?
The part where he says, "move yourself to the coffee house".
Doesn't sound like something a happy go lucky, positive individual says, in my opinion of course. Apparently I'm wrong about everything according to you and your friends here.
No, but to continue with the same litany over and over and over can wear on one. And, anytime someone tries to post something positive it get the same litany treatment....over and over and over......
Ok then. Thanks for clearing that up.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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koolbass
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/16 22:39:29
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WOW!! I'll admit, I spend much more time USING X2 than talking about it. My post count is proof that I choose to not make my opinions as numerous as flies on cow dung. I also found X2 much more user friendly, and I would find a general agreement with Mr. Anderton's assessment. But there are certainly a few posters on this forum that are in great need of a new hobby ... it's quite obvious making music on Sonar is not a frequent event in their lives. SHEESH!!
Cheers, Lance "koolbass" Martin Sonar Platinum, Sound Forge Pro 12, ADK built audio computer: Intel 8 core i7 Haswell-E overclocked 4.2GHz; 32 Gig DDR4/2666 ram; Corsair 850W power; Windows Pro 10 x64; Geforce GTX 980 video w/4 monitors (Acer 27" touch screen/primary); 3 Seagate drives - OS, audio, samples, 2 TB external USB3 bkup drive; RME MADIface XT; Ferrofish A16 MKII ADDA; Lucid GenX 6-96 clock www.BoogieHouseMusic.com
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Bub
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/16 22:51:28
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koolbass
WOW!! I'll admit, I spend much more time USING X2 than talking about it. My post count is proof that I choose to not make my opinions as numerous as flies on cow dung. I also found X2 much more user friendly, and I would find a general agreement with Mr. Anderton's assessment. But there are certainly a few posters on this forum that are in great need of a new hobby ... it's quite obvious making music on Sonar is not a frequent event in their lives. SHEESH!!
Excellent post. No anger or anything hurtful in there. Just some good clean old fashioned positive gumption. I like it.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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trimph1
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/16 23:16:00
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I guess one could suggest that one should be awfully nervous about mentioning how well X2 has worked. Oh, BTW...better to give ppl warning about how poorly it runs... Geeesh...the guy only mentioned how it was a smooth rollout of a product, and look at the fracking mess this thread turned into.... 
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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Bub
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/16 23:35:28
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trimph1
I guess one could suggest that one should be awfully nervous about mentioning how well X2 has worked. Oh, BTW...better to give ppl warning about how poorly it runs...
Geeesh...the guy only mentioned how it was a smooth rollout of a product, and look at the fracking mess this thread turned into....
It had nothing to do with how well it works. But again. You're probably right. I'm probably wrong. Always Am it seems.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Anderton
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/17 01:35:22
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Bub
Research? Have you ever given me one iota of credit for all the people I have helped here or the positive things I have said about X2? Nope. Instead you accuse me of not bothering to do research. I think if you check ... I'm a lot more positive about X2 than some people here would have you believe.
Unsuccessful deflection. I never disputed that you help people, and I feel it's disingenuous for you to try to act like I was. Nor do I care whether you're positive or negative about X2. I don't care if you hate it or love it. Your comments were directed at me personally and the article I wrote. I was responding specifically to your lack of research about what was going on in the forum around the time my article was written. You could have said "How can you justify saying it was a smooth rollout? I recall it being pretty rough" and I would have answered you with what I saw that justified my opinion. But you shot from the hip and jumped to conclusions that fit your particular viewpoint. Wouldn't it make sense to ask for clarification first? (FYI - readers don't necessarily want an "unbiased consumer" viewpoint. They want an "unbiased professional" viewpoint from someone who has put a piece of software through hundreds of hours of operation, and has worked with enough other software to formulate a comparison based on experience. I was doing demanding audio-for-video projects within a few hours of installing X2, without problems. My experience paralled all the others who commented on X2's smooth rollout.) I don't think the way to write a review is to say "In my experience. X2 performed extraordinarily well, especially for a new release. However, there are people who are finding X2 problematic, so I think you should believe them instead of what I've experienced directly." Would that make sense? You said: "You can't dispute the main without coming off like an a**hole." You can dispute me all you want. How people judge your comments is their decision, not mine. You said: "We all know his article isn't accurate." I didn't realize you spoke for this entire community, and that they all agreed with you. I guess the quotes I posted kind of just floated down from space. Or maybe I hacked this BBS and posted them to justify my opinion. You said: "but if you say anything, then you're the bad guy, know what I mean?" Again, you can say anything you want (just spell my name right!). How other people judge your comments is their decision, not mine. I don't have a problem with who you are. I have a problem with you making unfounded accusations. You said: "the fact that Craig sees it, but chooses to ignore it ... well, that's his prerogative." I didn't realize that you could get inside my head, and see that I was deliberately choosing to ignore things. That is total bullsh*t and that's why I'm calling you on it. OF COURSE there were negative comments. OF COURSE there are bugs when software is introduced. But was the rollout of X2 smoother than previous ones? I didn't say it was a bug-free rollout. I didn't say the forum had a unanimous lovefest with Sonar X2. I maintain that X2 was still a much smoother rollout than X1 or 8. Maybe 7, too, now that I think about it. And I maintain the forum community by and large recognized it as such.
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Anderton
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/17 01:41:48
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Paul P
mudgel:
"craig
I think you expect too much from the current forum crop to think that they possess the necessary ability to reason on such things.
How could when the article was written have a bearing on the meaning of the words.
Wonder how many will come back to apologise for speaking/writing before they've ascertained the actual facts.
Anderton:
"Admittedly, it is difficult to reason people out of positions they didn't use reason to attain. And discussions would be more meaningful if they were conducted with people who live in fact-based worlds. But, that's life. Just to put things in perspective, it's not like I'm dealing with brutal dictators slaughtering innocent civilians, or scam artists preying on 93-year-old widows. It could be a whole lot worse. "
Between the two of you, you've insulted just about everyone in this community.
Way to go.
If you think my comments were directed at this entire community instead of the few people who engaged in personal attacks, suffice it say you're wrong. Wasn't the line about "it's not like I'm dealing with brutal dictators slaughtering innocent civilians, or scam artists preying on 93-year-old widows" a clue? I promise to include a  next time when I do the reductio ad absurdum thang.
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Bub
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/17 01:55:06
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Anderton
Bub
Research? Have you ever given me one iota of credit for all the people I have helped here or the positive things I have said about X2? Nope. Instead you accuse me of not bothering to do research. I think if you check ... I'm a lot more positive about X2 than some people here would have you believe.
You said: "but if you say anything, then you're the bad guy, know what I mean?" Again, you can say anything you want (just spell my name right!). How other people judge your comments is their decision, not mine.
Yep. I'm the bad guy. Thanks for your response.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Anderton
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/17 02:05:28
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jsg
One can't fully trust the vast majority of software "reviews" in the major commercial music magazines for several reasons:
1. An old-boy's network of doing favors for each other (software publishers/magazines)
2. The reviewer tinkers with the program for a week or so and only uses 1/4 of its features or so (I could be wrong, but Anderton mentioned, I think, that he doesn't use the staff view for example)
3. Real-world issues other than installation (i.e. bugs) are seldom talked about. The pros and cons section of Sound on Sound reviews, for example, rarely mention bugs, even though programming errors are abundant in X2a, albeit much fewer than in X1 and its subsequent releases
1. IIRC, Cakewalk doesn't advertise very often in EM. But, I don't know who's advertising in the magazine until I receive the copy in the mail. Even the page proofs I get for proofing after the article is written don't have ads. What's more, we review lots of products from companies that don't advertise in EM. In fact, we reviewed iZotope Iris and Alloy 2, and Trash is in an upcoming issue. Iris even got an Editor's Choice award. Yet iZotope has NEVER advertised in EM, and has expressed zero interest in ever advertising in EM. We review products based on what we think readers want to read about, because if readers don't buy the magazine, we're toast. 2. True, I don't use staff view. But that's because it's pretty primitive. While evalulating X2 I found it was still primitive, which is why I wrote: So What’s Missing? Staff-view fans—or rather, those who’d like to be staff-view fans—will find no improvements, although Music XML export facilitates working with notation programs. Also, V-Studio control surface development always lags behind the software itself, but I’ve confirmed this will be addressed in the next update [it was, FYI]. Three other X1 complaints—the inability to customize the Control Bar (especially for smaller screens), no VST3 support, and less flexible colorization options than 8.5—remain. As to how much time reviewers "tinker" with programs, of course that varies from one reviewer to the next. I'm always suspicious when a "review" is accompanied by the same screen shot that's on the manufacturer's web site - was it so very hard to hit "print screen" in Windows or open "grab" with the Mac? But, time spent with the program also has to be balanced with getting the review published in a timely fashion. In my case, I'm fortunate in that I can often get beta copies of software prior to release, so I get to have experience with it. Then when I receive the release copy, I can see whether any problems I found in the beta were addressed, and whether any features were added. This takes nowhere near as long as reviewing a program "from scratch." 3. I think we all accept that software has bugs. Again, lead times are an issue. Sometimes serious bugs are fixed in the months between reviewing something and when the magazine hits the newsstand; sometimes not. And, because they're print and permanent, magazines have a long shelf life. So, there's a tendency to concentrate on things that won't change. which isn't always the case with bugs.
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Anderton
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/17 02:12:16
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Bub
Anderton
Bub
Research? Have you ever given me one iota of credit for all the people I have helped here or the positive things I have said about X2? Nope. Instead you accuse me of not bothering to do research. I think if you check ... I'm a lot more positive about X2 than some people here would have you believe.
You said: "but if you say anything, then you're the bad guy, know what I mean?" Again, you can say anything you want (just spell my name right!). How other people judge your comments is their decision, not mine.
Yep. I'm the bad guy.
Thanks for your response.
For the record...I don't think you're a bad guy. Besides, you spell my name right You did one post recently where you were again a little too hasty in drawing conclusions, and you gave a heartfelt apology to the poster. I complimented you on that and said I wished more people in forums could take that attitude. That's why I don't think you're a bad guy...just a little too prone to hit "Post Message" before thinking things through. Of course, neither I, nor anyone else on this forum, nor any other forum, has EVER done that. You are the only person ever in the history of the internet to hit "Post Message" before thinking things through.
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John
Forum Host
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/17 02:12:44
(permalink)
Mr. Anderton I remember making a similar comment when the X2 release was out for a week or so. It seemed to me that it was very, as you put it "smooth" to me.
I noticed a very real change in how the forum was responding to it and that it was mostly very positive. It was without a doubt far better a response then it was when X1 was released.
I find it a shame that you have had to deal with the thoughtless comments in this and other threads.
I can not apologize for the forum but I do offer my sincerest apology to you from me for having not been able to put an end to it.
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Anderton
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/17 02:18:13
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Hey, no worries. By and large this is a great forum, I've learned a lot here, and I try to give back as much as I can.
Snarky or ill-informed comments go with the territory. I've been a public figure for 45 years; I have a pretty thick skin, and truly believe people are entitled to their own opinions...I just don't think they're entitled to their own facts, which is when I take issue and start getting snarky in return.
This is nothing compared to the two times I got death threats. You think Bub would ever do that? Not in a million years.
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Anderton
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Re:Electronic Musician…
2013/02/17 02:28:55
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vintagevibe
Anderton
Admittedly, it is difficult to reason people out of positions they didn't use reason to attain. That's the best quote I've seen in a long time. I should put it in my signature!
Glad you liked it Actually you're a fine example of someone with a realistic view of Sonar and software in general. FWIW, my "Staff View remains primitive" under the reviews "Cons" section is an hommage to your comments, and was directly inspired by same. I do pay attention to the negatives; for many people, Staff View is a big one and is worth pointing out. Just because it doesn't matter to me is irrelevant; it matters to some people, and therefore needs to be mentioned.
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