Tom Riggs
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 00:17:43
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Anderton
chriswickens
Wow that mastering thing sounds neat except you have to pay extra for it. If this keeps up I'll be dumping Sonar. I don't need to pay to get bloatware.
You didn't pay for bloatware. The only thing you "paid" for was the time it took for Cakewalk's developers to include direct file export in SONAR, which is trivial compared to the cost of adding actual features to the program. Amortize that over the entire SONAR user base, and you paid essentially nothing to have that feature included. This isn't like a VST plug-in where Cakewalk pays a licensing fee and passes along the extremely reduced cost on to users; LANDR makes its money by selling its own service, not by charging companies like Cakewalk.
As far as "bloatware" is concerned, the entire LANDR package is 100MB. If you never plan to use it, you can uinstall it.
Craig I agree with your points about the bloatware. In my case I can't comment on its function because I still have an hour left on the download thanks to the additional download. For me it would be better to leave it as a separate download just as other value added parts of the Sonar Plat package are done. Just my $0.02
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Anderton
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 00:42:12
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gswitz
Right? If we wanted to buy the service and upload our stuff, we don't need any changes to Sonar to do this. I'm not really sure what Landr has to do with Sonar.
When you choose "LANDR Master" from SONAR's export audio function, shortly thereafter you get a free mastered preview, from which you can choose one of three "intensities." You don't have to open another program, upload the file manually, choose a different Windows audio device for playback, etc. It's about integration/convenience.
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cparmerlee
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 00:46:48
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pwalpwal
speculation? for "dirtying" read "flagging as changed"
That is undoubtedly correct. Programmers conventionally maintain a variable called "Dirty" to indicate if anything has changed in the file. Then before closing, if the dirty bit is "true" then the user is prompted to save the changes. The bug would have been that if the only change was this routing assignment, the file could be closed without getting the prompt to save the changes.
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Anderton
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 00:48:12
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Tom Riggs
Craig I agree with your points about the bloatware. In my case I can't comment on its function because I still have an hour left on the download thanks to the additional download. For me it would be better to leave it as a separate download just as other value added parts of the Sonar Plat package are done.
Wow, an hour per 100 MB...then I saw where you live, so I understand. There is a definite limitation when everything is done online. I remember when it took about 12 hours to telecommunicate all the text for an issue of Electronic Musician via the 300 Baud modem in my Radio Shack Model 100 laptop... I don't know if LANDR can be split off from the core program as easily as plug-in, FX chains, and the other types of content though. That would be a question for Noel.
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Larry Jones
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 01:28:48
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☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2016/02/24 01:45:53
Given that we are now "integrated" with Landr, maybe they'd like to mention Sonar on their website as one of the many fine DAWs one could choose. This is from https://www.landr.com/en/how-to-mix: Choosing your mixing softwareThere’s tons of Digital Audio Workstations (DAW) to choose from. Which DAW is the best DAW is up to you. But some of the best DAWs to start mixing with are: - Adobe Audition
- Logic
- Cubase
- Pro Tools
- Bitwig
- Ableton Live
- FL Studio 11
- Reaper
- Studio One 3
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Tom Riggs
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 01:42:57
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Finally I have installed. Thank you Cake for not forcing us to use the CCC. it too me 7 hours total to download the update and it failed 4 times in the process. That last failure was with 1MB left to download. None of the download connection issues are Cakewalks fault but imagine how frustrated I would be if I had used the CCC in its current state and the download started over.
The Landr is a separate installer listed in the Programs so I'm certain it could be separated from the initial download if there is a will to do so.
Now off the the fun stuff :-)
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chriswickens
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 02:10:55
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I pay for Sonar. I don't pay for them to program in useless BLOATWARE. They spent time and man power to integrate this piece of software that could have been better used fixing issues or creating other features in the main program.
Like others said if i wanted this I would have installed it. I don't know if I have to install it as I'm not at my DAW but either way it was time and money spent to do it.
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monleo2014
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 02:19:39
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☄ Helpfulby FreeFlyBertl 2016/02/24 03:43:13
I also have serious doubts with going online to LANDR. I still remember the Gobbler debacle. My thoughts are: - Don’t introduce more demos to your professional DAW. Because I wanted something like LANDR last year I bought a cheap DAW package from Magix (40-50 dollar). They come with a mastering section that has automatic mastering like LANDR. You can even bring in your favorite song as preset. Quality is about the same as LANDR (both have their weaknesses)
- Instead create a separate mastering section within Sonar. Most DAW’s go that way. Sonar plugs are quit good and underestimated. They can do the job but are often missing adequate and sufficient presets.
- (off topic) I get the impression the bakers are pressed into introducing every month something exotic. I don’t think this is necessary. I will judge Sonar based on what has been accomplished in a year (I paid a year subscription). This highlights also the problem with monthly subscriptions. If the bakers are pressed too much into coming every month with some exotic item, programming time will go into gadgets while the really important things are neglected.
- The reason I bring up different DAW’s is because I’m occasionally demonstrating different DAW’s (unpaid:-)). My main focus remains on Sonar. Been a faithful user since Sonar4. I think Sonar must do something with arranger tracks, mastering section, coloring or skins, expanding Matrix functionality (controller based music is quite popular)
- To end on a positive note Sonar Platinum 2015 is the most stable version I've worked with. Just add a couple of features the musician expects to have in a DAW.
Regards, Monleo2014
post edited by monleo2014 - 2016/02/24 02:46:15
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GIM Productions
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 03:29:14
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Hi all,first i believe that Sonar is the best Daw in the market,i make 90% of my productions in sonar,my clients choose sonar over other daw but for this reason cake should work on internal mastering stage with dedicated editing and state of the art plugins and i see a little contradiction with the announce af spring sonar features and Landr that i consider a tool but not professional.
Anyway many thanks to the bakers for the hard work!
Best
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Skyline_UK
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 03:55:32
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I see from 'Sound On Sound' magazine that Presonus Studio One has also made an agreement with Landre. Maybe it will be making an appearance in the update being unveiled tomorrow.
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M@
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 04:09:06
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☄ Helpfulby FreeFlyBertl 2016/02/24 06:55:00
I'm not sure I like the way things are evolving.
There are so many small issues adding up that (FOR ME :)) are just not satisfying.
- 'Having' to be online
- Multiple 'Integration' of not full-versions of 3rd party software (Gobbler, Melodyne-essential, AD2, LANDR, TH2...)
- Long time bugs / worksflow killers described by other users in detail (gfx visibility, arrangement features,..........& many more.)
- Monthly releases (being released towards end of the month mostly)
Like many users: I have liked since a long time and still like Sonar a lot, but frustration seems to grow instead of shrink.
I too feel that the monthly release system puts too much pressure on the CW-team for them "having" to release something cool & exiting. (As posted by Monleo2014 above)
All the additional packages being delivered are no doubt nice, and probably will be used by many; but.....was it necessary to introduce? I myself liked AD2 when it was introduced and do use it, I even bought additional content, but in all honesty: I still would have upgraded to the newest Sonar if it wouldn't have been included as I am hoping the programme itself (=Sonar) will get better!!
Anyone needing/wanting additonal features/content will look elsewhere for it. It's not gonna kill Cakewalk.
New users must be captured by the features of the programme itself. I believe "integration with LANDR online mastering services" is not a true Sonar feature.
I paid a year upfront as I just want to own the programme as is. I'm not gonna pay for another year now because of the way I feel (and because I've still got 6 months subscription left). I'll wait another 11/2 years and if I like the programme as it is then at that moment I'll just pay for the upgrade upfront and use whatever status Sonar is on.
I hate being anxious and eager, looking forward to next month and then just being frustrated again untill months end when I get my hopes up high again.
At the moment I'm especially frustrated because I wasn't able to use my (home)studio as much as I want to, so that's part of the reason for my little "rant"
Just my opinion right now......things might change towards the middle of the year....let's see.
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BRuys
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 04:25:56
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☄ Helpfulby FreeFlyBertl 2016/02/24 06:55:43
I do think that CW has to be careful about hitching their wagon to 3rd party products like landr (and gobler before it). It almost cheapens the product for me. I'm just not a fan of the model where tools are built into a product that basically sit behind a paywall. I would personally rather not have the integration and download a separate app/tool if I wanted to use the product.
If my annual Sonar Platinum subscription ran out and I decided not to renew and stayed with a version with integrated landr access and then a few months later landr went belly up, I would be left with this redundant integration. Just doesn't sit right with me. I hope we don't see more of this kind of thing.
I will go and find the tools I want, when I want them. I don't want menus cluttered with 3rd party tools I have no interest in. This is not a direction I'm happy with at all. I wasn't a fan of the gobbler integration either, as I knew it was something I would never use. If we ever get to the point where we have 10 - 20 3rd party tools sitting in Sonar menus, I will be looking for the door.
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jpetersen
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 04:29:14
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>> Fixed issues where: >> Clean Audio Folders could hang when scanning multiple drives Oh, good grief.
post edited by jpetersen - 2016/02/24 04:53:15
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Soundwise
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 05:42:16
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brconflict
Still having to download through the store. The Command Center still doesn't seem to understand recovery of a frozen, iffy, or lost session. Just quits downloading at a random % and never recovers.
I had the same problem. Reinstalling CCC fixed it.
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Paul P
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 06:56:05
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Keni
I can understand involved mastering for mixes that have problems, but why would I want to change the sound of a mix I like? That would tell me I need a remix...?
To me it's more a question of procedure. Things should advance and converge from your recordings, through mixing, then through mastering and on to distribution. It's possible to specialize in one particular stage of the process and let others take care of the rest. You can then concentrate learning and spending on the methods and tools of your chosen stage, attaining a higher level of quality than if you try to do everything yourself. Now that we can in theory do everything ourselves, I think it's still a good idea to maintain definite stages in the process. Otherwise you may end up jumping around all over the place and risk unbalancing the product and having to backup and redo. If you're mixing, you shouldn't have to go back and re-record some part and if you're mastering, you shouldn't have to go back and play with the positioning of instruments on the virtual stage. When mastering, you're not changing the sound of your mix, you're refining it. You certainly shouldn't be fixing it, if that is even possible at the mastering stage. The whole production should be a linear series of refinements. I see it as a question of organizing the task at hand and accomplishing it in the most efficient manner, in the least number of steps.
post edited by Paul P - 2016/02/24 07:28:24
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SGodfrey
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 07:01:16
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There seem to be quite a few negative posts about LANDR which I find a bit surprising. Mastering has often been referred to as a "black art" and whilst I'm sure it would be interesting to learn, there can't be that many who have the time and resources (room treatment, tools, etc.) to "master" it (excuse the pun). There must be plenty of Sonar users out there who's mastering (like me) consists of no more than a bit of light compression (probably using default settings), a cursory attempt at bit of EQ and judicious use of Boost11. Not terribly advanced in other words.
I've always checked the posts about the latest releases each time they've come out and often been amazed at the positive reaction to stuff I thought was of minimal use. This time I was certain that people would love LANDR and the reaction is quite the opposite. Go figure!
I for one, am really looking forward to hearing what LANDR can do.
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Paul P
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 07:04:01
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brconflict
New Track
My inclination as a newby would be Right-Click, which is certainly intuitive in my mind. I would probably miss the [+], assuming its function had something to do with the Now Time clock.
I missed the [+] in the Synth Rack for years and I've just recently begun to use it almost exclusively. If it had had "Insert Synth" beside it I might have noticed it earlier (funny how sometimes we don't even see something we haven't previously learned about).
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martinfoss
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 07:05:42
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Is the LANDR desktop app supposed to be intalled automatically when updating Sonar? I was trying to export to LANDR, but got an eror message saying that the LANDR app was missing. Also trying to install it directly from LANDR, but I'm having problems there as well.
post edited by martinfoss - 2016/02/24 07:19:50
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cowboydan
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 07:31:08
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When you export a track/Mix you will see Landr in the .landr Master in the options for export. Once you export to your desktop, Landr will start automatically. Hope this helps.
post edited by cowboydan - 2016/02/24 07:47:29
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martinfoss
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 07:34:39
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cowboydan
When you export a track/Mix you will see Landr in the .landr Master in the options for export. Once you export to your desktop, Landr will start automatically. Hope this helps.
Yes, and that's when I get the error message saying that I don't have the LANDR desktop app. Then I assume it was suposed to install automatically with the Newburyport update, but didn't.
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M@
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 07:51:06
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Am i missing the point or could people have been using/can use LANDR even without Sonar? Never heard of L&R before and now all if a sudden the majority of Sonar users would (want to) need it?
Not saying it's bad: haven't tried it yet, but why on earth must it be part of Sonar?
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 07:56:46
(permalink)
Most likely the install of SONAR didn't complete properly. Try reinstalling the latest update after rebooting your computer.
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promidi
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 08:18:24
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martinfoss
Is the LANDR desktop app supposed to be installed automatically when updating Sonar?
When I install Sonar updates (or any software for that matter), I always do a custom install so I have a better chance of seeing what it's doing. With the Sonar Newburyport update, I found that the selection for the Landr component is on the same screen where it asks you to select the Apple Quicktime components. On that part of the install, make sure that Landr is selected and it should end up being installed. Mind you, I chose not to install it and because of that, Landr did not even appear as an export option on the export Audio dialogue box (which is what I wanted)
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Tom Riggs
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 08:38:11
(permalink)
I tried the Landr thing on a small section of a cover I just mixed last weekend. The things I noticed are that Landr plays back using the default windows audio which in my case is not the monitors.
In only tried a 30 second section of the song because my internet is so slow especially today for some reason.
I will say that it was loud. So far that only thing I hear is that the female vocal could use a bit of de-esser or some eq to reduce the sibulance. I did not notice that so much when we were mixing but that could be just because my ears got used to hearing the song. Often I notice that when I let a mix/my ears rest for a bit I hear things that I did not before.
I will need to listen again to see if it suggests any other problems with the mix.
All in all I would have preferred a separate download for the Landr but it may yet come in handy time will tell.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 09:05:09
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Hi Tom,
Landr defaults to Medium. If you want to preserve even more dynamic range try the Landr low option.
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BobF
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 09:08:42
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Tom Riggs
brconflict
Still having to download through the store. The Command Center still doesn't seem to understand recovery of a frozen, iffy, or lost session. Just quits downloading at a random % and never recovers.
I do the same but I put the files in the CCC download folder then use CCC to install it. THat way the Checksum is verified. If they would make CCC's download "manager" more intelligent I would use it for the whole process simplifying things as I believe it is intended.
If it was more intelligent, they couldn't call it a manager ... 
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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icontakt
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 10:11:00
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brconflict
New Track
...Unfortunately, it still "hides" when starting a New session, in that, the standard templates hide the "New Track" and only show the [+] (at least on my 30" screen).....
I probably would have moved the "Custom" pull-down, or shrunk its default width so the "New Track" label would show immediately. That would make it very obvious.
I would suggest... 1. The default track header width in the Basic template should be a bit wider so that not only the "Add Track" label becomes visible but also three track controls become visible per row in the header (the current Basic template only shows two controls per row, with some unused space to the left of the FX Rack, which I've always found awkward).  2. Although this has nothing to do with Add Track, the Track Control drop-down should probably be set to "All" by default, which will allow new users to easily learn that SONAR's track header has Bank and Patch Change drop-downs.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 10:15:50
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icontakt
brconflict
New Track
...Unfortunately, it still "hides" when starting a New session, in that, the standard templates hide the "New Track" and only show the [+] (at least on my 30" screen).....
I probably would have moved the "Custom" pull-down, or shrunk its default width so the "New Track" label would show immediately. That would make it very obvious.
I would suggest...
1. The default track header width in the Basic template should be a bit wider so that not only the "Add Track" label becomes visible but also three track controls become visible per row in the header (the current Basic template only shows two controls per row, with some unused space to the left of the FX Rack, which I've always found awkward).
2. Although this has nothing to do with Add Track, the Track Control drop-down should probably be set to "All" by default, which will allow new users to easily learn that SONAR's track header has Bank and Patch Change drop-downs.
Can't you just change your template?
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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gunboatdiplomacy
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 10:26:43
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Don't do that - taste is very subjective. If you listened to presets on most synths you would think they were all horrible :)
Try it with your own music and start with the Landr Low setting. You might be surprised how good it actually is.
If you are willing to tweak your mix to accommodate what you get from Landr its very possible to get an excellent master.
b-b-b-but this is the internet. dismissing things out of hand is de rigueur! /s thanks for saying this. it needs to be said every time.
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icontakt
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Re: SONAR Newburyport now available
2016/02/24 10:35:22
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Bristol_Jonesey
Can't you just change your template?
Yes, I have a very complex custom project template which I use for every serious project, and also have a slightly modified verion of the Basic template. Both of them have a perfect track header width for me, but I also tend to use the default Basic template when I try to reproduce someone else's issue (just to make sure if I can reproduce it in the default project). Also, I think the changes I suggested above will help new users. They shouldn't have to widen the header width a bit and save it as a new Basic template.
Tak T. Primary Laptop: Core i7-4710MQ CPU, 16GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Secondary Laptop: Core2 Duo CPU, 8GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Professional OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Audio Interface: iD14 (ASIO)Keyboard Controller/MIDI Interface: A-800PRODAW: SONAR Platinum x64 (latest update installed)
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