I was devastated when I found out that Gibson had ceased all development on Sonar.
And I do mean "found out"...
NOTHING was communicated to the customers in the existing email lists. The only way to find out was going to cakewalk.com or getting the information from other community boards (kvr etc.)
I now know that the ceased development is now a thing of the past - but again, I found out by coincidence by going to cakewalk.com.
Why did you not send out the happy news through the customer email lists?
With this wonderful news I'm finally breathing normally again and I could have breathed normally again a lot sooner 
 
Looking forward to be a part of the whole BandLab Technologies collective - hoping it does not resemble the Borg collective at all
Thank you Meng for being so enlightening in your posts!

jm24
I assume at some point we will get messages about the changes, and how to join the new forum,....

If you want information e-mailed to you from the folks at BandLab you will need to sign up for their e-mail list. You can find it on the Cakewalk announcement page at https://cakewalk.bandlab.com/. Scroll to the bottom and there is a place to enter your e-mail address.
 
Not sure if the Cakewalk IP that BandLab purchased included customer listings and e-mail addresses. Even if it did the original Terms of Service (TOS) from Cakewalk might have said that your e-mail can't be used by a third party (never read the TOS myself so I don't know).

Just some thoughts in general, probably repeating but this is a long thread that has gotten a little childish at a few points (subscription or not...), so I jumped through a few pages, but :

I just turned 36 and might be the tail end of the last generation that had this kind of experience, and can see this from 2 sides. I have used social media in the past to promote material, but started out recording on tape before social media really existed. I learned to think the way I do because of the latter part, so excuse me if this is a little long-winded, but I haven't really seen anyone spell this out.

My first real recording unit was a Tascam 424 mkii 4 track cassette recording machine in high school. I had a cheap DOD mixer that I could use externally for 'extra channels' to avoid a mono mixdown reduction on rare occasions I had enough budget mics to use it, but it was hardware... for about a year, and about 2000 I switched over to a revolving amount of digital platforms, reducing the 424 itself to just a mixer. Finally I switched over to an actual PCI sound card, and it's been all digital since then. During high school I read rec.audio.pro obsessively, as well as every Zappa interview on the web then (that's an entire recording education there). I had low quality gear but I was used to making the best/borrowing/begging until I can borrow with all the digital benefits, but I still approached it the way I heard the Beatles used to record on analog tape, with that mentality of music into a recording machine, not the recording machine is where music originates.

I bounced around with a lot of free software or using a shared rig so I never really put any real money down on very expensive sophisticated software while running a band that played original music and made no money, writing music and recording it myself, but most of the stuff I bounced between was pretty easy to figure out because the software looked, and behaved, like a digital version of my old Tascam at heart. Channels, aux's, main bus. Simple, and you can figure it out pretty quickly. Throw in studying The Handbook for Sound Engineers cover to cover, and used books on acoustics, electronics, and you can figure out how to make your Rhodes with no sustain pedal sound like a Hammond with enough outboard FX, or free software, if you put the time in and apply the knowledge. No presets for that. But also no giant noise floor from tape either - the best of both. I have a lot of great organ samples now - but none sound like compression and flanging the life out of a Rhodes piano. That ability to create unique sounds is something I still value with all the 24 bit premade samples in the world at my fingetips to this day.

I made the last of my albums with my band on a shared workstation with Sonar 6. It felt like a mixer, worked like one, and was great, wanted to buy, then got angry enough finally and walked away from music and unreliable musicians for nearly a decade after one too many drummers dropped out suddenly. Just done with it all.

I came back a few years ago and wow. Ableton, Kontakt, etc. Don't need the unreliable musicians nearly as much. I can replace the people who annoyed me with MIDI based samples that sound, and smell, better. Software plugins got a lot better. Things changed and they changed fast. But at my heart of hearts, I'm still back in my garage in high school trying to play my friend's borrowed drumset onto a 4 track so I can put my music together bit by bit. I need a digital mixer/tape deck that has all the benefits of digital, and none of the drawbacks of the old Tascam. Everything else is a bonus.

I finally went with Sonar Platinum, and bought a lifetime Platinum membership while it was on sale for $399 so I could go back to making music without the drawbacks of relying so much on other musicians. I'd had so many good experiences with Cakewalk in the past as the platform still feels like at its heart of hearts, it's just a really fancy digital mixer and as long as you know how to work a mixer, there's no giant mystery in how Sonar works. It's intuitive for someone like me. Had to borrow money to afford it during the limited time offer since I didn't want to pay in installments, then renew that yearly so I grabbed a lifetime ownership so I'd be set with what felt like was a tool, not a toy. Expensive for a hobby but worth it.

Which lasted about a year ... during which time I barely had a chance to use it. Can't say that doesn't sting, but what stung most was the idea that Sonar would end when I finally settled down on it and got fast in it from the little I did get to use it.

All this is to say that I am not an old fart who is set in his ways, but I get the distinct feel that a lot of the programs I tried out when Sonar seemed like it might die off, are oriented toward people who are too young to know how to run a real mixer, or know how to record a song by getting good takes down with the right FX already on it, and then mixing it through a main bus with nothing but a single Aux reverb if necessary. Not saying everyone should do that at all - but if I'm recording, I think I should know the history of it, and why things are the way they are, how Les Paul got his sound on sound mono recordings, etc etc. I feel like I have better control of the digital tools because I know what they do, and why they came into being. I learned to edit digital audio before it was super easy to find zero crossings, so I've never bothered to learn to let the program find it for me since it's faster manually - and I know why it's important, which many people surprisingly don't.

My point being, I may not actually be an old fart, but I feel like I am one. And since I may as well be one it seems, there are a few concerns I have seen voiced but not quite voiced together, and Sonar=WhatWillBeSonar for the sake of the following...

- KEEP SONAR OFFLINE. I remember the days of hunting down IRQ conflicts in 2000/XP, having a separate install for your audio system (still do) and disabling the LAN card (still do). I only went in for Command Center because of laziness, but my audio system is locked, does no go online except for Sonar, does not update and is on Win7. Please no cloud BS. Optional? Sure. Mandatory. No. Please. I want to be able to opt out. I don't care how easy it is to share on facebook directly. I would rather mix it down to wav, export, convert it myself, then upload it. I'm just that way. I don't want to change that part workflow.

- KEEP SONAR FEELING LIKE A DIGITAL MIXER, not a toy. This is why I bought a lifetime upgrade, because underneath the different kinds of views, loops, options and all that, I can still throw up some tracks, get my USB mixer out, use console view and feel like I'm at a console mixing in real time. I know a lot of people have no idea how Aux sends work, or why you create a bus for toms and compress them together instead of (insert 1000 other ways to do it here), but some of us like that old feel - the limitations give us inspiration sometimes. I hate drawing envelope curves for volume or panning, however convenient. Making it too accessible at the expense of losing the heritage of working on a digital version of a mixer/tape machine will be too alienating. I'm constantly amazed at how far programs are going to make it easy to make cheese using premade products, versus expecting the user to step outside the cradle and have a tiny learning curve. Music doesn't seem to have gotten any better due to ease of use from my perspective, nor was it better when it was more difficult, so I don't think making it as easy as possible helps with 'better'.

- I DON'T FEEL SCREWED THAT I LIKELY WON'T HAVE LIFETIME UGPRADES/ROLLING UPDATES ANYMORE THAT I PAID $399 FOR. Well, I do a little. I still blame Gibson, but I get it. The IP was bought, not the program. I understand the difference. The program will run for a while, hopefully a few updates more at least, but it will eventually become a new program from the code and as long as I can crossgrade to a Sonar with a different name, I won't feel like I got screwed by the lack of lifetime upgrades I paid for because it's 'technically' not Sonar anymore, though that lifetime option would be nice to buy if it comes with rolling updates/upgrades. Again I blame Gibson for what seems like a crass attempt to milk... I'll stop there but you get my point. Glad Sonar is away from Gibson, even if it won't be the same program as I bought into.

This is kind of my point. I know Sonar won't be Sonar anymore, I'll keep my Sonar installed as is for as long as possible, and that's fine, but things are going to change. Sonar is going bye bye eventually as we know it.

Please don't lose the things that made Sonar feel like Sonar in the new not-Sonar, whatever it's called from now on. As a customer it feels like I'm being asked to move to a house with the same furniture, not stay in the same house I bought, even if the furniture is technically the same. I bought the house and the furniture, but life happens and you do have to move eventually. My concern the more I look at Bandlab, the more I see a "cutting edge company that empowers users to create content on a platform that is easy to use, all in one, easy to share across multiple social media platforms" etc etc, the more worried I get that whatever Sonar turns into, it will drift away from my Tascam mkii 4 track upbringing, which is literally the opposite of what I just put in quotes above.

The 4 track cassette tape mentality made me think before recording, made me plan, made me make decisions because I didn't have the luxuries someone growing up today has, and definitely made me better at music, so when I went digital I didn't end up falling down major rabbit holes that I see people go down today.

I talked to a friend a while back, and she told me her teenage son was in his room creating music. I asked if he was playing his bass, and she said 'Playing his bass? No, he's making music, he has his (beatstep?) out and is using loops to find something he likes.' She went on in a little more detail but I got the picture - he didn't even need to play an instrument to make music, despite playing one. He wants stuff to show his friends as soon as he finishes it. I can understand that.

I asked if he ever sat down with an instrument, wrote music and lyrics, figured out an arrangement, then used his software as a tool to record his composition, revise it and then improve it. He hadn't. I guess it hadn't occured to him that he could do that, or that anyone ever did that at any point. Nothing wrong with how he did it, but when she told me what kind of software he used, I realized that it actively discouraged him from even thinking that way. I just don't want to be forced into that situation by how new NotSonar is developed.

Sonar still lets me think that way. Please keep whatever Sonar will turn into a program that lets me go off with my guitar, a notepad/sheet music, portable recorder, then come back to build my tracks up with the software being a tool that helps me built it bit by bit. My cell phone is on silent when I'm working on music and the door is closed, since I'm not online, and I'm focused on creating or realizing something I have in my head. When I got it right, then I throw it up online - but the lack of ability to do so directly is a GREAT way of 'helping' me not get too eager and share too early. I see a big problem with people doing that now, sending stuff out before it's finished because it's convenient. I didn't grow up with the ability so I guess I'm not the target audience for Bandlab right now, that much is clear. Even Sonar Platinum has a lot of great features... I simply don't need. If I want a looped guitar part playing a funk riff for 3 minutes, I record myself playing the same funk riff for 3 minutes. I turn off my phone and play my instruments. I appreciate the ability to loop, but I'd rather shut my door, and play instruments.

That closed door mentality is what I worry will be lost. I'd rather lose my lifetime updates than keep it and lose that closed door mentality that Sonar still definitely has. Bandlab's web page says 'join our community.' I am just a cranky person who likes being alone and making weird music - Sonar lets me do that, without being a part of a community. I may or may not even show someone music I create - I spent $399 just to amuse myself with a hobby for fun. Change isn't bad, as long as it is adding new features to a great product, not fundamentally changing a great product to be something that takes the hiding in your garage with your 4 track recorder and play instruments for fun, even if you never show it to anyone else.

I'd be thrilled about having the lifetime update package I bought when money was scarce for me for a hobby to amuse myself, but I'm not naive or unrealistic, and I'd be more thrilled at keeping the program as one I'd want a lifetime update package for in the first place. Bandlab seems very progressive, which might be good, but does seem to have its own aesthetic, which doesn't mesh with the loner with an offline computer making weird music to amuse himself while cackling wildly aesthetic.

Just some thoughts from reading this very, very, very long thread... Hopefully there will be good news for the minority group of weirdos I belong to that likes how Sonar has always stuck to its mixer-like recording roots in a way other DAWS haven't. The modern day recluse composing weirdo refuses to die, but has sure taken a beating on platforms to work with ease. I hope Bandlab keeps the same place Sonar kept for people like me who got into it on tape despite tape being a pain, simply because it was fun to do on your own.
 
Sorry for the long post but I hadn't seen anyone address this quite as such. It'd be nice to be reassured at some point there will be a still be a place for the reclusive weirdos at Bandlab's platform!

 

ch.huey
.....
I talked to a friend a while back, and she told me her teenage son was in his room creating music. I asked if he was playing his bass, and she said 'Playing his bass? No, he's making music, he has his (beatstep?) out and is using loops to find something he likes.' She went on in a little more detail but I got the picture - he didn't even need to play an instrument to make music, despite playing one. He wants stuff to show his friends as soon as he finishes it. I can understand that.

I asked if he ever sat down with an instrument, wrote music and lyrics, figured out an arrangement, then used his software as a tool to record his composition, revise it and then improve it. He hadn't. I guess it hadn't occured to him that he could do that, or that anyone ever did that at any point. Nothing wrong with how he did it, but when she told me what kind of software he used, I realized that it actively discouraged him from even thinking that way. I just don't want to be forced into that situation by how new NotSonar is developed....

You've touched on something there that deeply troubles me.
 
But first, an aside on 'old farts', I'm old (69), but I don't see why that should have the word 'fart' added to it to make a derogatory epithet for anyone who has more years on the clock than someone else and whose opinions and beliefs can be safely ignored.  In the awful SJW climate we are now living in, I thought it was a really bad thing to label anyone for their race, creed, sex and, well, anything really, but for some reason it seems fair game to insult the 'non-young'.  I think it's maybe a Western civilisation aberration; many more mature cultures revere and respect the experience and wisdom of the older members of their societies.  We are currently over-obsessed with a 'get with the program' imperative - why?  Anyway, I saw Jimi Hendrix play live, so there.
 
Back to your salient comment on how some youngsters think they're making music with loops. Let's just get this out there. They're not making music. We mustn't fall into the trap of thinking we need to defy our knowledge and wisdom and think the opposite of what we know is true for fear of being labelled 'Luddite', 'old', etc. We must feel free NOT to be persuaded that "That's how they're doing it now. It's modern and equally valid as learning an instrument was in your day. And by definition, as it's modern it must be good and therefore it's YOU that doesn't understand its validity".  Utter bollocks. Stringing together snippets ('loops') of music made by musicians on instruments is not making music. End of.  Anyway, I like to think that for every bedroom beats copy and paster there is at least one other youngster learning the joy of connecting with a musical instrument and actually expressing what's in their heart and head by making music with it.
 
(I thought my journey to a post count milestone warranted a little brain dump!)