Kamikaze
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/15 01:43:54
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☄ Helpfulby ch.huey 2018/03/15 01:51:42
IMO this is what BandLab needs to do.
Sonar should not be a Jack of all trades, master of none. But it should be a Master of some and Jack and of a few. A master of Mixing, Arranging, Sequencing and recording. Which I think it's close to, only hindered by stability issues.
Integrate with the current BandLab set up, and adopt some of its functions. I wn't pretend t know much abut BandLabs current tools, but getting BandLab users to see Sonar as the natural progression is clearly the business idea here.
Matrix view should be overhauled. Live will always be the master, but to do Live's core function with the same ease, s that those using Live or wanting to, but also wanting more of Full Daw capabilities will consider Sonar t be the ther option. Working with Novation so it's Pad integrates well. Meaning those with Live and the Novation Pad will see Sonar as a good option because of it's supported integration. This could help its reputation with younger users drawn like moths to those flashing ights.
ACTs needs to be foolproof. There are so many controllers now, this was left behind as a function.
Staff View needs it's overhaul. Partly to regain the faith of old users that waited and waited, and almost got it, party because no set of functions users have paid for should be ignored for a decade. But because the school educational market is another way to attract new users. Schools tend to be PC based, so that was a strength for Sonar before. BandLab als received a NAMM 2018 Education App award (or similar such title), so clearly BandLAb valuse this market too.
Update Step Sequencer. It's great its a key function for me. I thought of some tweaks, but saw other users say, 'but have you seen Geist's'. I couldn't see what it could do more, s I didn't. Then I lked at Geist's sibling Tremor, and thought, woah, that s simple and obvious. To overhaul step sequencers and have users saying 'But have you seen Sonars new step sequencer, it does A, B,C...... and integrates seamlessly'.
Chord tracks. Ease of composing is clearly BandLabs goal, and this is a tool that can help do that. We want mre interesting music, and chords and the harmony are the foundation if that.
Mac version. I'm never buying a Mac, it's not in my interest to request this. How many of BandLabs users are using BandLAb on an iPad. So to be a natural progression for BandLab's current user base, means including them all.
Youtube Videos. It's 2018, Youtube is central to Media Communications. Instructional Videos are not just existing users, they are promotions of how good your product is, what it can do, and how easily. Manuals are great, but it's not the only way. Users shouldn't pay third party companies for these, especially when things are continually changing. When a new function is created, tell the world, dn't wait until a significant amount of them are achieved that a third party feels it's worth doing a new set of videos. Be all over Youtube, shared on Facebook, linked in forums.
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cparmerlee
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/15 02:18:47
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Kamikaze
Matrix view should be overhauled. Live will always be the master, but to do Live's core function with the same ease,
Yes. And even if SONAR will never be the primary live performance platform, the Matrix view can be a key component in HIGH-VELOCITY COMPOSITION, and that's Bandlab's mission as I see it. Not everybody is trying to make the perfect ripoff of some Eagles tune with their DAW. I very often do scratch tracks or tracks that serve a useful purpose but will never hear it on radio or see it on CD Baby. VELOCITY is important. Kamikaze
Chord tracks. Ease of composing is clearly BandLabs goal, and this is a tool that can help do that. We want mre interesting music, and chords and the harmony are the foundation if that.
This is very important. This is a major feature of Cubase that has escaped the attention of most people. It really is impressive, both as a compositional aid (by helping find harmoies that will work and be cool) and as a production tool (by allowing MIDI to follow the chords -- you have to experience that to really understand the power there.) I assume Bandlab will want things like that in the front-end tools (mobile and cloud), but Cubase proves it has an important place in the back end. And to take that one step farther, let's say I can use a Bandlab app on my phone to harmonize my song by selecting chords. And then those chords find their way into a SONAR chord track. Once there, those same chords can automatically (optionally) force the MIDI for the bass and lead synth to conform to those chords. And then maybe I change the chord in the cloud, causing my SONAR bass line to update itself as the information is all synchronized. How cool would that be?
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looneymusic
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/15 03:18:06
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To be totally honest, the only thing I'm really interested in at this point is the promised offline activation patch for Sonar. With the recent news that the Gibson trainwreck is about to run headfirst into a mountain side, the odds that the activation servers are long for this world are dropping at a rapid pace, regardless of all the positive messages and promises to the contrary. I'm reserving judgement on any "new" incarnation of Sonar until it arrives, (and I actually can see and try it out), but in the meantime, I have work to do, and that work depends on Sonar not dropping into "DEMO" mode unexpectedly.
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scook
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/15 03:25:49
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looneymusic
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/15 04:32:33
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scook
looneymusic
To be totally honest, the only thing I'm really interested in at this point is the promised offline activation patch for Sonar.
see http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/373144
That would be the promises and positive messages I was referring to. Don't forget, at the end of the day, no matter the "public face" that is presented, a business is in it for the money. It's easy for someone from Gibson, or Cakewalk, or Bandlab, to say, "Don't worry, nothing will change", and they might even believe that themselves. But the instant the "bean counters" do the numbers, and say something along the lines of "You know what, supporting customers of legacy software, who have no interest in upgrading to the new product, (that could be me, but I'm keeping an open mind), is not really cost effective," everything will change. So, even if Bandlab has taken control of the activation servers, and even if they claim those servers will remain operational forever, I won't rest easy until I know for sure that the version of Sonar that I own and use every day will work, every single time I double-click that icon. Will I check out a "new" version of Sonar? Sure. If one is ever released. But from what I've seen of Bandlab, and the product/services they currently offer - so far at least, it's not Sonar, so I'm not interested.
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Kamikaze
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/15 04:36:43
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cparmerlee
And to take that one step farther, let's say I can use a Bandlab app on my phone to harmonize my song by selecting chords. And then those chords find their way into a SONAR chord track. Once there, those same chords can automatically (optionally) force the MIDI for the bass and lead synth to conform to those chords. And then maybe I change the chord in the cloud, causing my SONAR bass line to update itself as the information is all synchronized.
How cool would that be?
ARA2 has some abilities regards transferring details to Chord tracks, which has given me some hope that chrd tracks wil become mre of a DAW norm with mre DAWs lined up to adopt ARA, so this could be around the corner
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scook
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/15 05:19:37
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looneymusic
scook
looneymusic
To be totally honest, the only thing I'm really interested in at this point is the promised offline activation patch for Sonar.
see http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/373144
That would be the promises and positive messages I was referring to. Don't forget, at the end of the day, no matter the "public face" that is presented, a business is in it for the money. It's easy for someone from Gibson, or Cakewalk, or Bandlab, to say, "Don't worry, nothing will change", and they might even believe that themselves.
The fact is the authentication method has not changed. It is no different than when the SONAR 2015.01 started selling. If all you are interested in is an alternate method of activating SONAR 2015.01 through 2017.10 beyond what is available today, it may be unwise to expect a change as long as the activation servers are running. Noel's statement is consistent with the only commitment ever made regarding activation.
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Frank Harvey
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/15 06:00:37
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looneymusic
............"Will I check out a "new" version of Sonar? Sure. If one is ever released.
But from what I've seen of Bandlab, and the product/services they currently offer - so far at least, it's not Sonar, so I'm not interested".........
I can see where you're coming from LM .......(Truly).....been in a large company myself (ie: REAL JOB)..an Airline ........ 'Ansett Australia' ........The Aussies here will know to what I'm referring to. With the decline of Ansett the retrenchments were ironically decided by those who didn't provide any $ returns for service or produce a single $ widget. In fact , when such a company would close down.........the accountants kept their jobs till the bitter end so they could in reality....turn out the lights! Notwithstanding, Accountants / Finance Advisors are decent people just like the rest of us...my Bro is one. :) They are needed.....heck I hate adding up.....different answer each time LOL :). But I'm a creative......just like you ,.............however financial numbers are a necessary annoyance. :( Yes 'At The setting Of The Sun' .........the Ole $ will indeed RULE........simply based on the fact that no one wants to lose..............let alone bleed money. I, (again like you I suspect), feel like I have one foot on the accelerator and the other on the brake. Will this all work out ? If I may Indulge.......... For My Money ...............................I have a serious hunch Meng has immensely more financial resources than any of us imagine and I suspect ( as I myself would perhaps in his position) be looking far broader than $ returns for his investments. Success in one's life is subjective..............granted. But a measure of one's success in life is not always measured by the $ return. &....I have a 'Gut' feeling Meng is also of this view. Cheers................Frank PS: Prove me wrong Meng :) .....Hello ......... Meng !!..............Testing.... 1,2,3 ...............I know you're out there :)
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Earwax
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/15 09:13:36
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ch.huey
Thank you but I'm not a lover of long posts myself, I mostly find them a pain in the rear.
You’re joking, right? You have 4 posts. They’re ALL long!!  ch.huey
- I DON'T FEEL SCREWED THAT I LIKELY WON'T HAVE LIFETIME UGPRADES/ROLLING UPDATES ANYMORE THAT I PAID $399 FOR. Well, I do a little. I still blame Gibson, but I get it. The IP was bought, not the program. I understand the difference. The program will run for a while, hopefully a few updates more at least, but it will eventually become a new program from the code and as long as I can crossgrade to a Sonar with a different name, I won't feel like I got screwed by the lack of lifetime upgrades I paid for because it's 'technically' not Sonar anymore, though that lifetime option would be nice to buy if it comes with rolling updates/upgrades. Again I blame Gibson for what seems like a crass attempt to milk... I'll stop there but you get my point. Glad Sonar is away from Gibson, even if it won't be the same program as I bought into.
 Can we PLEASE, once and for all, dispel the myth that Gibson came up with the “Lifetime Updates” idea? They didn’t. Cakewalk came up with the Lifetime Updates, not Gibson. Don’t believe it? Ask Noel Borthwick or Craig Anderton. ch.huey
I talked to a friend a while back, and she told me her teenage son was in his room creating music. I asked if he was playing his bass, and she said 'Playing his bass? No, he's making music, he has his (beatstep?) out and is using loops to find something he likes.' She went on in a little more detail but I got the picture - he didn't even need to play an instrument to make music, despite playing one. He wants stuff to show his friends as soon as he finishes it. I can understand that.
I asked if he ever sat down with an instrument, wrote music and lyrics, figured out an arrangement, then used his software as a tool to record his composition, revise it and then improve it. He hadn't. I guess it hadn't occured to him that he could do that, or that anyone ever did that at any point..
I find this incredibly hard to believe. How did he think the loops he was using were made?? Is he blessed with magical thinking? Did you actually have a conversation with him about his thoughts on musical creation, or with his mom? What program could he possibly have used that would magically close his mind to the reality of, oh I don’t know…, who made the loops he was using, and how they were made? He’s never heard of a recording studio? I’m not picking on you. I just found your posts……………interesting  I find the future possibilities of the flagship BLDAW to be utterly fascinating. I can’t wait to see what the BandLab team cooks up. 
Pain - the absence of things hoped for, the evidence of catastrophes unforeseen.
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iRelevant
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/15 14:29:15
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sharke
iRelevant
Bravo Mr. ch.huey, very enjoyable reading. Applause :)
My main interest in the DAW is it's MIDI features. I hope that the Preferences section get's a streamlining when it comes to the MIDI part. It would be nice if it was easier to select devices formerly associated with Cakewalk ... you would expect it to be just a matter of ticking off the right boxes to select say the VS-100 or the A-Pro Keyboard Series. It's a bit weird how it's quicker to get the A-Pro keyboard to work in Fruity Loops than in Sonar.
It would also be nice to have easy integration of contemporary control surfaces and keyboards.
What problems have you had with your A-Pro in Sonar? I had no problems or confusion setting mine up, it was pretty much plug 'n' play!
I'm not able to get the "control surface" part of it to work (PLAY/REC etc). I've tried the automatic setup wizard ... without luck ... Trying to do it manually in hasn't worked either. In Preferences\MIDI\Control Surfaces, I select "Cakewalk Generic Surface" and APro2 as input port and APro as output post. But nothing happens. I also briefly tried the ACT option, but from what I read I don't want to go to deep down that road. The APro is setup on default control map 0 for Sonar. How did you do it ?
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iRelevant
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/15 16:18:23
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Earwax
ch.huey
I talked to a friend a while back, and she told me her teenage son was in his room creating music. I asked if he was playing his bass, and she said 'Playing his bass? No, he's making music, he has his (beatstep?) out and is using loops to find something he likes.' She went on in a little more detail but I got the picture - he didn't even need to play an instrument to make music, despite playing one. He wants stuff to show his friends as soon as he finishes it. I can understand that.
I asked if he ever sat down with an instrument, wrote music and lyrics, figured out an arrangement, then used his software as a tool to record his composition, revise it and then improve it. He hadn't. I guess it hadn't occured to him that he could do that, or that anyone ever did that at any point..
I find this incredibly hard to believe. How did he think the loops he was using were made?? Is he blessed with magical thinking? Did you actually have a conversation with him about his thoughts on musical creation, or with his mom? What program could he possibly have used that would magically close his mind to the reality of, oh I don’t know…, who made the loops he was using, and how they were made? He’s never heard of a recording studio?
I would say they are working at a higher level of abstraction, where the nitti gritty of how the loops came to be is not necessarily of interest ... what is important is how they sound and what you can do with them. There are a number of "Live" like loop apps on iPhone/Pad ... like Novations Launchpad, Blocks etc. The basic apps are free, you pay for features and loop packs. The latest free for Launchpad is called : "Future House Fusion" and comes "with synthetic textures" :) Pretty much anybody who can touch a screen can be a producer, much in the same way anybody able to hold a guitar can be a musician. Whether it is interesting to listen to depends as before on the mind behind it all.
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marled
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/15 17:19:10
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☄ Helpfulby ch.huey 2018/03/16 00:22:06
cparmerlee
And to take that one step farther, let's say I can use a Bandlab app on my phone to harmonize my song by selecting chords. And then those chords find their way into a SONAR chord track. Once there, those same chords can automatically (optionally) force the MIDI for the bass and lead synth to conform to those chords. And then maybe I change the chord in the cloud, causing my SONAR bass line to update itself as the information is all synchronized.
How cool would that be?
This would be terrible! Although you have written "optionally". I see those automatic things spook all over in nowadays applications. Most of the time they are out of control, i.e. many users feel that the apps are not doing what they told them! And so we all are wasting a lot of time in the web to figure out how to configure or hack those software monsters! Additionally I feel the risk that such complex automatic things could grow a lot of new bugs and change track data even for users who have switched it off!
... many years before ...
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Paul P
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/15 17:42:15
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cparmerlee
Basically I think Bandlab is a positive thing, but everybody here should understand Bandlab will be appealing to the next generation. They have to. That's where the only real business is. That does not have to be a bad thing, but old-timers should be prepared to open their minds to new ways of doing things that are not just like the "old SONAR".
Just give me a recent version of Sonar Platinum that I can use as is for the rest of my life and I'll be very happy*. I'll gladly accept 'lifetime use' instead of 'lifetime updates'. Bandlab can then do whatever it wants and I won't care. * Just like I'll be using Office 2010 Pro forever (and I'm happy to remain on Win7 forever as well).
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
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groverken
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/15 17:56:37
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If you have a registered copy of Sonar Platinum it is already set for 'lifetime use' just like Office 2010. I'm just looking forward to the next BandLab announcement so that (hopefully) we can finally drop all this "lifetime updates" dialogue!
Windows 10 (64-bit), Cakewalk by BandLab, ASUS Z170-A, Intel i7 6700k, ATI Radeon R5 230 2048Mb, 32GB RAM, 500GB SDD system drive, 2 250GB SSD samples drives, 2TB HDD, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (2nd generation), M-Audio Oxygen25, Korg i5M, Rapture Pro, Z3TA+2, SampleTank 3, BFD (2&3), Addictive Drums (1&2), EZdrummer2, MusicLab Real Guitar, EZmix2, Ozone 7 Elements, Neutron Elements, Overloud TH2, AmpliTube, T-RackS, Waves singles, Harrison Mixbus 4, Acoustica 7 Premium.Fender Stratocaster.
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RTA
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/15 18:37:21
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Re: ch.huey
I'd go along with that.
I'm still not happy unless I can play something all the way through - THEN I record it.
Playing it in small chunks &/or looping just isn't how I like to work.
Each to his own though, but I for one would appreciate that basic functionality continuing.
The dictionary definition of music is 'Rhythmic Noise', so however you get to the end result is valid.
Whatever works for you. The rest is subjective.
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BJZ
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/15 19:25:31
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groverken
.... I'm just looking forward to the next BandLab announcement so that (hopefully) we can finally drop all this "lifetime updates" dialogue!
Hah! I love the naïveté of that statement. No matter what BandLab announces there WILL BE immense, intense and eternal "lifetime update" dialog. Mark my words.
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listen
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/15 19:42:15
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I have only one request:
1. Make Sonar useable with Control Surfaces like the Nucleus and many other Control Surfaces...just saying!!!
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michael diemer
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/15 21:46:09
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iRelevant
I would say they are working at a higher level of abstraction,
Really? Doing loops is a higher level of abstraction? I thought that when Mozart was composing a new piece in his head, WHILE putting down on paper the one just finished, THAT was a higher level of abstraction. How times have changed...
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
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bapu
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/15 21:55:33
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☄ Helpfulby abacab 2018/03/15 22:15:02
The (arguably) most groundbreaking band in the world even occasioanlly used loops.
Maybe you heard of them?
The Beatles.
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abacab
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/15 22:29:52
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Kamikaze
IMO this is what BandLab needs to do...
<snip>
Some very good points made here! The focus on the core skillsets of Sonar is a must. Mixing, Arranging, Sequencing and recording If it isn't something that Sonar can do as well, or better than the competition, cut it out. Harsh, but necessary to avoid a jack of all trades mediocrity. Sonar needs a strong identity to appeal to the future uninitiated DAW users, or else the competition will win. As far as the Matrix is concerned. Nice idea, but Live can do it better, so just let it go. Same with chord tracks. It's a nice idea, but Cubase can do it already. It hasn't happened in Sonar yet, so just let the feature request go in peace. Notation? Get a dedicated notation program. Studio One and Live are both successful without a notation view. Trim the weeds, and focus on areas that are the strongest!
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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iRelevant
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/15 22:44:26
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BJZ
groverken
.... I'm just looking forward to the next BandLab announcement so that (hopefully) we can finally drop all this "lifetime updates" dialogue!
Hah! I love the naïveté of that statement.
No matter what BandLab announces there WILL BE immense, intense and eternal "lifetime update" dialog.
Mark my words.
I think it will be short lived, the licence is with with Cakewalk Inc ... which after having sold everything except it's obligations to it's customers ... will have to change it name to something like Void Inc (If that trademark is available). It may take time for people to realize that the risk with this new online licensing is that there is a major difference when a company goes tits up. Before you were left with abandonware, now you are left with nothing ... but your eyes to cry with. Fortunately it is now clear that this is not what will happen. Let's hope BandLab has a long and successful future ahead of it. I feel confident that this will turn out well. Even optimistic. I think this time next year, Cakewalk will be a turnaround success story you can read about.
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michael diemer
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/15 23:40:01
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☄ Helpfulby ch.huey 2018/03/16 00:24:02
abacab
Kamikaze
IMO this is what BandLab needs to do...
<snip>
Some very good points made here! The focus on the core skillsets of Sonar is a must.
Mixing, Arranging, Sequencing and recording
If it isn't something that Sonar can do as well, or better than the competition, cut it out. Harsh, but necessary to avoid a jack of all trades mediocrity. Sonar needs a strong identity to appeal to the future uninitiated DAW users, or else the competition will win.
As far as the Matrix is concerned. Nice idea, but Live can do it better, so just let it go.
Same with chord tracks. It's a nice idea, but Cubase can do it already. It hasn't happened in Sonar yet, so just let the feature request go in peace.
Notation? Get a dedicated notation program. Studio One and Live are both successful without a notation view.
Trim the weeds, and focus on areas that are the strongest!
Terrible advice, in my opinion.
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
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Kamikaze
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/16 00:05:21
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☄ Helpfulby ch.huey 2018/03/16 01:10:35
abacab
Kamikaze
IMO this is what BandLab needs to do...
<snip>
Some very good points made here! The focus on the core skillsets of Sonar is a must.
Mixing, Arranging, Sequencing and recording
If it isn't something that Sonar can do as well, or better than the competition, cut it out. Harsh, but necessary to avoid a jack of all trades mediocrity. Sonar needs a strong identity to appeal to the future uninitiated DAW users, or else the competition will win.
As far as the Matrix is concerned. Nice idea, but Live can do it better, so just let it go.
Same with chord tracks. It's a nice idea, but Cubase can do it already. It hasn't happened in Sonar yet, so just let the feature request go in peace.
Notation? Get a dedicated notation program. Studio One and Live are both successful without a notation view.
Trim the weeds, and focus on areas that are the strongest!
Making Sonar clearly better than the competition at "Mixing, Arranging, Sequencing and recording" is a very difficult and unlikely task. At best it can only be seen to be 'as good as'. So if it's 'as good as' why choose it. It's as good as Cubase, but cubase has Chord Tracks and hasn't been passed from company to company and was closed down at one point. Chord Tracks will most likely become the norm as ARA2 is adoptied but more DAWs and it's one of it's attributes. So Studio One will probably have one soon as they are a key Melodyne partner. When Extract tempo was created, so many Sonar users were saying 'we want it, Studio One has it'. Melodyne is now part of my tool box, and I'm choosing the DAWs that are capable of utilizing it to the full. Sonar needs to re-build a reputation and gain new customers, it has to be a clear option compared to the leaders. stripping it back will not do this. Ableton users wanting to progress onto a fully fledged DAW have no reason to choose Sonar over the top 3 DAWs. Things like the 64 pad controllers are becoming more common and many will see that as a way into music. Sonar should be breaking new customer grounds. This is a BandLab Product now, and easy Song Writing is the ethos of BandLap. Chord Tracks and Matrix view are tools for easy song writing. I don't know, but maybe BandLab already do use a chord track. BandLab are also interested in the Educational Market and Notation is valuable to this, and schools are a great way to introduce to a new customer base. With all the sample libraries now, and the interest in gaming music and film scores. Orchestration is bigger than ever and growing. And Notation users wanting to move onto a fully fledge DAW will want this option in the DAW, otherwise 'Why pick Sonar'. Making Sonar great at just Mixing, Arranging, Sequencing and recording, won't win new customers, and stripping it back will lose existing customers. It may suit you needs but I think it's a plan for failure. I can't see it being BandLabs vision.
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/16 00:08:22
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☄ Helpfulby ch.huey 2018/03/16 01:09:59
bapu
The (arguably) most groundbreaking band in the world even occasioanlly used loops.
Maybe you heard of them?
The Beatles.
Post of the week. Add The Mamas and the Papas to that.
Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro 32GB Ram, Intel i7 4790, AsRock Z97 Pro 4, NVidia 750ti, AP2496 Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro, 16GB Ram, AMD FX 6300, Gigabyte GA 970 -UD3 P, nVidia 9800GT, Guitar Port, Terratec EWX 2496
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Leadfoot
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/16 00:36:57
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2018/03/16 15:43:36
I believe Hendrix experimented with them as well.
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ch.huey
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/16 00:46:42
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Earwax
ch.huey
Thank you but I'm not a lover of long posts myself, I mostly find them a pain in the rear.
You’re joking, right? You have 4 posts. They’re ALL long!!
I can promise you this will be short. ch.huey
- I DON'T FEEL SCREWED THAT I LIKELY WON'T HAVE LIFETIME UGPRADES/ROLLING UPDATES ANYMORE THAT I PAID $399 FOR. ... Again I blame Gibson for what seems like a crass attempt to milk... I'll stop there but you get my point. Glad Sonar is away from Gibson, even if it won't be the same program as I bought into.
Can we PLEASE, once and for all, dispel the myth that Gibson came up with the “Lifetime Updates” idea? They didn’t. Cakewalk came up with the Lifetime Updates, not Gibson. Don’t believe it? Ask Noel Borthwick or Craig Anderton.
Yes, except that I never said Gibson came up with the idea of lifetime updates. I blame Gibson for being such a poorly run company that Cakewalk, a company that has been around for decades and I had faith in to buy lifetime upgrades, shut down due to Gibson being a poorly run company. If you disagree with that, please drink some chamomile tea and have a good cry. Perhaps find a kitten and pet it. Or if whatever severe crisis you seem to be having is more existential in nature, find a priest, and pet him. You are aware I am indeed a man, but not made of straw, yes? So you can go find an immobile human shaped form to argue with that has the holes exactly where you want to poke it with your pitchfork elsewhere, as I have no desire to be prodded by you. ch.huey
I talked to a friend a while back, and she told me ... (blah blah removed, sigh)
I find this incredibly hard to believe. How did he think the loops he was using were made?? Is he blessed with magical thinking? Did you actually have a conversation with him about his thoughts on musical creation, or with his mom? What program could he possibly have used that would magically close his mind to the reality of, oh I don’t know…, who made the loops he was using, and how they were made? He’s never heard of a recording studio?
I’m not picking on you. I just found your posts……………interesting
I find the future possibilities of the flagship BLDAW to be utterly fascinating. I can’t wait to see what the BandLab team cooks up.
I certainly don't find you as interesting as you seem to find yourself. Thank you for your suggestions, though, to Bandlab on what they can do to make your experience of the program better, instead of nitpicking on minutiae that no one cares about from a post several pages ago. Since that was my bigger point about why arguing over loops doesn't matter and it's far more important to suggest positive improvements instead of being someone who sits there nit picking pointless issues like an armchair philosopher. Also why I'm not going to argue about loops with you. That short enough for you? I apologize if it is too brief, as I'm enjoying all the other people who are actually posting constructive comments about what they would like Bandlab to know to devote more time to this response. My sincerest apologies.
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Toddskins
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/16 00:47:16
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RTA
The dictionary definition of music is 'Rhythmic Noise', so however you get to the end result is valid.
Whatever works for you. The rest is subjective.
That is not the definition, and I groan over what dictionary you chose to nab that falsity from. It's apparent that even dictionary companies are being politicized. The true definition is: Music - Melody or harmony; any succession of sounds so modulated as to please the ear, or any combination of simultaneous sounds in accordance of harmony. An aesthetic art form of sound produced in a continuum of time consisting of 1) Beat, 2) Rhythm, 3) Melody, and 4) Harmony. Such a shame that people now think noise is music! It's not. You might say, in a figure of speech, that some type of news is music to your ears, but that is just a figure of speech. Unfortunately, unschooled people actually believe the brainwashing they have received, and are not able to call things as they are.
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michael diemer
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/16 00:47:27
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I wasn't disparaging loops. I just thought it was a rather humorous statement that they represented a higher level of abstraction.
Of course, it makes a difference if the loops are your own creation, or you just downloaded them from some repository.
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
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Kamikaze
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/16 00:51:52
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Toddskins
RTA
The dictionary definition of music is 'Rhythmic Noise', so however you get to the end result is valid.
Whatever works for you. The rest is subjective.
That is not the definition, and I groan over what dictionary you chose to nab that falsity from. It's apparent that even dictionary companies are being politicized.
The true definition is: Music - Melody or harmony; any succession of sounds so modulated as to please the ear, or any combination of simultaneous sounds in accordance of harmony. An aesthetic art form of sound produced in a continuum of time consisting of 1) Beat, 2) Rhythm, 3) Melody, and 4) Harmony.
Such a shame that people now think noise is music! It's not.
You might say, in a figure of speech, that some type of news is music to your ears, but that is just a figure of speech. Unfortunately, unschooled people actually believe the brainwashing they have received, and are not able to call things as they are.
Noise is 'unwanted sound', music isn't unwanted
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ch.huey
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Re: Hello from BandLab
2018/03/16 00:56:10
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michael diemer
abacab
Kamikaze
IMO this is what BandLab needs to do...
<snip>
Some very good points made here! The focus on the core skillsets of Sonar is a must.
Mixing, Arranging, Sequencing and recording
If it isn't something that Sonar can do as well, or better than the competition, cut it out. Harsh, but necessary to avoid a jack of all trades mediocrity. Sonar needs a strong identity to appeal to the future uninitiated DAW users, or else the competition will win.
As far as the Matrix is concerned. Nice idea, but Live can do it better, so just let it go.
Same with chord tracks. It's a nice idea, but Cubase can do it already. It hasn't happened in Sonar yet, so just let the feature request go in peace.
Notation? Get a dedicated notation program. Studio One and Live are both successful without a notation view.
Trim the weeds, and focus on areas that are the strongest!
Terrible advice, in my opinion.
I could not agree more. Notation is incredibly important as it is one way of viewing what you actually have in the MIDI domain. Sonar is at best passable, but when you go in between programs, it NEVER translates properly. Staff view is just a way of viewing the same MIDI data that matrix, or event list, or piano roll is. They are all useful in their own ways, and I often have audio, piano and staff view open at the same time so I can see them line up and make modifications. Try recognizing a second inversion dominant 7th piano chord based on piano roll, vs staff view and tell me if it is unimportant. Again, I would highly suggest that Bandlab make notation a priority, in at least one of the editions, if not a version of the newnotSonar that can seamlessly translate between the two. I could deal with the pretty presentation being a different program, as I believe Presonus has done (?), but just neatening up what is already there by a bit and including TUPLETS past 3 would be a huge help. Otherwise, you're exporting MIDI from Sonar into Sibelius or Musescore, and it is an ugly mess that you spend unnecessary time cleaning up so it's readable. To those who can read music, it is important, and a few minor improvements could really help when you've spent a lot of time working on a piece and the lack of ability to have consistent enharmonic spellings when using a keyboard to enter notes is why you can't hand it to a musician without first going and slaving over it in a 3rd party program for an unnecessary amount of time. What I need to see while making the final music is not the same as what I present to a musician, and as of now, it's lacking for both those purposes in ways.
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