Guitarmech111
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 12:36:26
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Mod Bod
I bet Conley buys it even if he has to sell blood to get it.  Haha.
Man, you guys know me too well. :) I am hoping that users from X2a will get a steep discount for an X3 update/upgrade. There is too much stuff they dorked up in X2 to let it go the way of Vista...
Peace, Conley Shepherd Joyful Noise Productions PC config: (Win performance base score = 7.7) ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX -amd fx-8150 - core processor am3+ - 32G Corsair 1066 DDR3 - PNY GTX670 2g gddr5 - Corsair Force SSD 120G - Samsung 750G SATA drives - WD 1tb Black (Audio files) - WD 2TB for storage - RME UFX - USB ASIO 2/2016 drivers Win8  Without a mess, there is no message
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TheSteven
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 13:55:53
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cparmerlee
TheSteven
If you're willing to wait - Melodyne Editor has gone on sale every summer (50% off) for the last couple of years.
Are you talking summer in the North? That's 9 months away. I'd probably do something sooner than that.
In July, so summer in the North.
"Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils" Loius-Hector Berlioz  www.AgitatedState.com MenuMagic - plug-in management powertools! My Tunes
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kzmaier
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 14:45:51
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+1 for x2b, nothing wrong with asking. I may consider xN but would like to get some use out of x2. I currently use x1 expanded as x2a was not stable on my system...
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Funkybot
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 19:39:26
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SvenArne
Funkybot
X3 will get released with some bugs (many of which have existed for years), you'll get a maintenance release called X3A that only fixes some bugs, then have nothing but silence from Cakewalk for a year until X4?
Come on, when did that ever happen except that once..? First, "that once" you're talking about wasn't faraway history, it was the last time. It was within the last 10 months. What would you be saying if they did the same thing with X3 and only released a single patch for a buggy DAW? Would you say, "can't wait for X4 to get released with all the new bugs and half baked features?" I'd hope not. That's a sign of an abusive relationship with your DAW-maker. Also, does "that one time" include Sonar 8.5? That was a .5 release (by Cakewalk's own standards) and was a paid upgrade. Studio One 2.5 was free. Reaper 4.5 didn't count against the 2 full version numbers Reaper licenses are good for. Cubase 6.5 also free from what I remember. So, it's not just "that one time" it happens every year.
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SvenArne
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 19:55:06
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Funkybot
SvenArne
Funkybot
X3 will get released with some bugs (many of which have existed for years), you'll get a maintenance release called X3A that only fixes some bugs, then have nothing but silence from Cakewalk for a year until X4?
Come on, when did that ever happen except that once..?
First, "that once" you're talking about wasn't faraway history, it was the last time. It was within the last 10 months. What would you be saying if they did the same thing with X3 and only released a single patch for a buggy DAW? Would you say, "can't wait for X4 to get released with all the new bugs and half baked features?" I'd hope not. That's a sign of an abusive relationship with your DAW-maker.
Also, does "that one time" include Sonar 8.5? That was a .5 release (by Cakewalk's own standards) and was a paid upgrade. Studio One 2.5 was free. Reaper 4.5 didn't count against the 2 full version numbers Reaper licenses are good for. Cubase 6.5 also free from what I remember.
So, it's not just "that one time" it happens every year.
As happy as I am with X2a, I have no reason to expect that one maintenance patch will be the standard from now on. Historically, three or four patches have been the norm. Most people would agree that "8.5" may as well have been called "9". The step from 8 to 8.5 was as significant as any paid release in Cakewalk history. Anyone remember SONAR 8 (not 8.5)? That one received some punishment...
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robert_e_bone
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 20:00:49
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kzmaier
+1 for x2b, nothing wrong with asking. I may consider xN but would like to get some use out of x2. I currently use x1 expanded as x2a was not stable on my system...
Just curious - in what way was it unstable for you? I ask in case there are some things that can get things working with it for you on your system. If interested, please open one or more threads with the issues you were having with X2 - I will certainly try to assist. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Funkybot
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 20:08:01
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☄ Helpfulby Guitarmech111 2013/09/28 07:08:53
cparmerlee
Funkybot
don't you have a nagging feeling that X3 will get released with some bugs (many of which have existed for years),
Yes, of course. Every complex piece of software ever created has had bugs at first. While I agree that X2 has more than an average amount of bugs for what should be a fairly mature product, most of them have reasonable work-arounds. And the large, large majority of things I see people complaining the loudest about are not bugs. The take lanes have some real bugs where names get criss-crossed and such, but the people complaining most about that argue that the feature doesn't work the way they would like to work. That may be a problem, but it isn't a bug. Lack of VST3 support was not a bug, etc. While I'd like to agree with you, I just can't... Just off the top of my head, here are some bugs (at least the first four of which have been happening for roughly a decade): 1. "Disk May Be Full" error on record 2. Easily corrupted projects 3. Doubled up notes on Quantization 4. Sonar icon remaining in the tray after closing 5. V-Vocal crashing 6. Random crashes and general instability (do I care if it's a plugin at fault if other DAWs are more stable with the same plugins?) Yeah, there's some complaining about half-baked features, but those are also legit complaints. Why is Cakewalk releasing Sonar updates with incomplete or poorly implemented features? Are those technically bugs? No. But it doesn't give me faith in Cakewalk when it happens. Some things that could have been done better the first time: 1. Take Lanes 2. Step Sequencer (Step Sequencer 2.0 anyone?) 3. Audio Snap (I feel like every time they change this it gets harder to use) 4. ACT (has this ever worked as well as promised) 5. Skylight and the X1 redesign (continiued in X2) 6. Snap (remember when Snap "just worked" - now I have two Snap settings and they can change automatically, and even when I don't turn on the automatic changing, I still end up not knowing what my snap settings are) I'm sure I could add to that list just by looking at the feature list for each Sonar update. The constant tweaks to features like that just tell me they were rushed. There's things that I think have gotten more difficult to use over the years (event durations, staff view, comping tracks, I already mentioned Snap to grid and Audio Snap), things that are standard for a DAW that still aren't in Sonar (improved audio routing, MP3 export, true unified instrument tracks), things GUI wise that made no sense (larger, non-resizable console strips that I'm somehow supposed to dock), and things that just didn't deserve the resources put into them (Windows 8 touch screen support before fixing the Disk May Be Full error? DXi format plugins?). Now they're trying to lock users in by selling them closed-format plugins in the form of Pro-Channel. I can go on. I'm sad to say it, but there's been so much wrong about where Sonar's been going over the years that I don't have a lot of faith that Cakewalk is suddenly going to right the ship and course-correct. If they do, they may have me back as a customer, but there'd be a lot of work ahead of them for me to consider ever upgrading beyond X2. I feel like a lot of longtime Cakewalk customers feel the same way, hence all the noise on the forum. X2 just may have been the straw that broke the camel's back for a lot of people (it was for me), and the release of X3 just comes across as Cakewalk rubbing salt on the wounds.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 20:11:59
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SvenArne
Funkybot
SvenArne
Funkybot
X3 will get released with some bugs (many of which have existed for years), you'll get a maintenance release called X3A that only fixes some bugs, then have nothing but silence from Cakewalk for a year until X4?
Come on, when did that ever happen except that once..?
First, "that once" you're talking about wasn't faraway history, it was the last time. It was within the last 10 months. What would you be saying if they did the same thing with X3 and only released a single patch for a buggy DAW? Would you say, "can't wait for X4 to get released with all the new bugs and half baked features?" I'd hope not. That's a sign of an abusive relationship with your DAW-maker.
Also, does "that one time" include Sonar 8.5? That was a .5 release (by Cakewalk's own standards) and was a paid upgrade. Studio One 2.5 was free. Reaper 4.5 didn't count against the 2 full version numbers Reaper licenses are good for. Cubase 6.5 also free from what I remember.
So, it's not just "that one time" it happens every year.
As happy as I am with X2a, I have no reason to expect that one maintenance patch will be the standard from now on. Historically, three or four patches have been the norm. Most people would agree that "8.5" may as well have been called "9". The step from 8 to 8.5 was as significant as any paid release in Cakewalk history.
Anyone remember SONAR 8 (not 8.5)? That one received some punishment...
By the way, for X2, there was also a quick fix, which addressed some true show stoppers for a bunch of folks. It was not a general maintenance update - just made for specific issues. The X2a update did address more than 250 bugs from X2. Just keeping things factual. There were also numerous postings where people demanded that Cakewalk take more time between releases to ensure more stability. They have certainly invested time and effort into putting together the set of things included with the upcoming release. Things are what they are - Cakewalk has its decision makers and developers balancing it all out, and if that does not suit someone's idea of how things should be done, then there are certainly other options out there. There has never in my recollection been an update/release cycle that didn't rehash the same sorts of postings - from all points of view, and I imagine that will always be the case. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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backwoods
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 20:12:16
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Funkybot
SvenArne
Funkybot
X3 will get released with some bugs (many of which have existed for years), you'll get a maintenance release called X3A that only fixes some bugs, then have nothing but silence from Cakewalk for a year until X4?
Come on, when did that ever happen except that once..?
First, "that once" you're talking about wasn't faraway history, it was the last time. It was within the last 10 months. What would you be saying if they did the same thing with X3 and only released a single patch for a buggy DAW? Would you say, "can't wait for X4 to get released with all the new bugs and half baked features?" I'd hope not. That's a sign of an abusive relationship with your DAW-maker.
Also, does "that one time" include Sonar 8.5? That was a .5 release (by Cakewalk's own standards) and was a paid upgrade. Studio One 2.5 was free. Reaper 4.5 didn't count against the 2 full version numbers Reaper licenses are good for. Cubase 6.5 also free from what I remember.
So, it's not just "that one time" it happens every year.
You're incorrect. Noel explicitly states so here: http://forum.cakewalk.com/SONAR-85-The-Fine-Print-m1841847.aspx
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Funkybot
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 20:16:30
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SvenArne
As happy as I am with X2a, I have no reason to expect that one maintenance patch will be the standard from now on. Historically, three or four patches have been the norm. Most people would agree that "8.5" may as well have been called "9". The step from 8 to 8.5 was as significant as any paid release in Cakewalk history. I've been a Cakewalk user since Pro Audio 9, and a Sonar user since X1. I know the norm. My last post outlines how the "the norm" has been for Cakewalk to leave some bugs unfixed, and "the norm" has also been for them to release incomplete features, and "the norm" has also been a focus on getting new customers in with gimicky features and plugins rather than focusing on what's important for a DAW. I LOVE the PRV (though the new Snap settings are awful), I love the Track view. I spend a lot of time in those screens. There's just too many things that I'm not seeing progress in the way I want them to and too much instability. I just can't keep making excuses for Cakewalk anymore. I'm sorry, I'm done with that. Again, I'd love to see a change for the better (by all accounts Stienberg has gotten much better since the Yamaha buy-out), but X3 definitely doesn't seem to be it, and I'm not sure it'll ever come.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 20:19:50
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That explanation of the 8,5 release was incredible.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Funkybot
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 20:22:31
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backwoods
You're incorrect. Noel explicitly states so here: http://forum.cakewalk.com/SONAR-85-The-Fine-Print-m1841847.aspx
Do you think Noel might have a vested interest in making Sonar 8.5 seem like something more than a .5 release? I mean, Cakewalk was charging for that .5 release, they did take a lot of flack for doing that (they didn't for previous "less than a 1.x" version update), and Noel does work for Cakewalk. Heck, Cakewalk themselves called it SONAR EIGHT POINT FIVE. They coulda called it 9, but someone in the company said "no, it's not a 9, it's more of a point five." Again: Cubase 6.5: Free Studio One 2.5 (huge update): Free Studio One 2.6 (pretty bug update): Free Reaper 4.5: Doesn't count against the 2 versions that your license is good for
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backwoods
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 20:24:39
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Cubase 6- 6.5 cost $50 I think, I bought it, then sold it.
I trust what Noel says about Cakewalk more than your speculation sorry.
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yevster
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 20:26:48
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Funkybot
Cubase 6.5: Free
Nope! Cubase 6.5 was a paid update, with a grace period for those who bought 6 close to 6.5's release date. And the word is, 7.5 will be a paid update as well. Cakewalk's biggest blunder with 8.5 was not calling it Sonar 9.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 20:34:28
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yevster
Funkybot
Cubase 6.5: Free
Nope! Cubase 6.5 was a paid update, with a grace period for those who bought 6 close to 6.5's release date. And the word is, 7.5 will be a paid update as well.
Cakewalk's biggest blunder with 8.5 was not calling it Sonar 9.
Rather subjective and to what point? - have you read the explanation behind 8.5? Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 20:39:28
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Funkybot
SvenArne
Again, I'd love to see a change for the better (by all accounts Stienberg has gotten much better since the Yamaha buy-out), but X3 definitely doesn't seem to be it, and I'm not sure it'll ever come.
So you haven't used the product and you've already drawn your conclusion. That sounds pretty reasonable.
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 20:42:50
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Funkybot
backwoods
You're incorrect. Noel explicitly states so here: http://forum.cakewalk.com/SONAR-85-The-Fine-Print-m1841847.aspx
Do you think Noel might have a vested interest in making Sonar 8.5 seem like something more than a .5 release? I mean, Cakewalk was charging for that .5 release, they did take a lot of flack for doing that (they didn't for previous "less than a 1.x" version update), and Noel does work for Cakewalk. Heck, Cakewalk themselves called it SONAR EIGHT POINT FIVE. They coulda called it 9, but someone in the company said "no, it's not a 9, it's more of a point five."
Again:
Cubase 6.5: Free
Studio One 2.5 (huge update): Free
Studio One 2.6 (pretty bug update): Free
Reaper 4.5: Doesn't count against the 2 versions that your license is good for
A lot more to this story than meets the eyes. Again you are talking about pure speculation. By no means was SONAR 8.5 a point release. It was for a time called SONAR X9. I won't get into the history but SONAR 8.5 was definitely worth of a paid update. Way different than any of your examples above and I think you might be wrong about Cubase 6.5. But comparing the jump from Studio One 2.5 to 2.6 to SONAR 8 to 8.5 is ridiculous. Sorry, even if I didn't work at Cakewalk, I would tell you that.
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 20:47:29
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SvenArne
Funkybot
SvenArne
Funkybot
X3 will get released with some bugs (many of which have existed for years), you'll get a maintenance release called X3A that only fixes some bugs, then have nothing but silence from Cakewalk for a year until X4?
Come on, when did that ever happen except that once..?
First, "that once" you're talking about wasn't faraway history, it was the last time. It was within the last 10 months. What would you be saying if they did the same thing with X3 and only released a single patch for a buggy DAW? Would you say, "can't wait for X4 to get released with all the new bugs and half baked features?" I'd hope not. That's a sign of an abusive relationship with your DAW-maker.
Also, does "that one time" include Sonar 8.5? That was a .5 release (by Cakewalk's own standards) and was a paid upgrade. Studio One 2.5 was free. Reaper 4.5 didn't count against the 2 full version numbers Reaper licenses are good for. Cubase 6.5 also free from what I remember.
So, it's not just "that one time" it happens every year.
As happy as I am with X2a, I have no reason to expect that one maintenance patch will be the standard from now on. Historically, three or four patches have been the norm. Most people would agree that "8.5" may as well have been called "9". The step from 8 to 8.5 was as significant as any paid release in Cakewalk history.
Anyone remember SONAR 8 (not 8.5)? That one received some punishment...
One maintenance patch is not going to be the standard. Count on it. FWIW, we did put a lot into SONAR X2a and could have made those 2-3 patches.
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Funkybot
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 21:04:22
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Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
So you haven't used the product and you've already drawn your conclusion. That sounds pretty reasonable.
Is that Andrew saying, "So you haven't used the product and you've already drawn your conclusion. That sounds pretty reasonable." If so, let me ask some questions: 1. Did you guys include MP3 encoding for free? 2. Did you guys fix the Disk May Be Full bug? What about how you write/save projects so they don't corrupt so easily? What about duplicate notes on quantization? What about the Sonar icon remaining in the tray after a close (which often prevents a new instance from opening without manually shutting down SonarPDR.exe in the task manager)? Any of those? 3. Did you improve signal flow to allow for more advanced audio routing? Can I route a VSTi output to an audio input? 4. Have you updated the Staff View or improved notation? 5. Will Sonar X3 recognize my mono UAD plugins and use DSP accordingly? 6. Does Sonar X3 include a dynamically resizable vector based console so I can see the full strips in the dock? Did you redesign the console to make better use of screen real estate? The 8.5 console was much better IMO. 7. Did you get rid of the annoying pop-up questions when pasting or inserting an instrument track that distract from Workflow? 8. Did you make it easier to quickly add/subtract outputs to a VSTi (a la Studio One)? 9. Did you finally create proper Instrument Tracks that can house MIDI and audio effects? Do they have all the same functionality as the separate MIDI+audio tracks did, just intelligently combined into one? 10. Did you add varispeed playback and recording like Reaper (man that's fun, and great for some Beatles-esque harmonies)? 11. Is VST 2/3 support FINALLY built in and not part of legacy Fxpansion code from their VST wrapper (which we wouldn't have needed if you opted to support VST natively from the get go and not DXi - but I digress)? Will it recognize which VST plugins send/receive tempo information, and can send receive MIDI without having to go into a separate plugin Properties window? 12. Did you simplify the Snap to Grid features which have clearly caused confusion (used to work great BTW - wasn't broken but it got fixed) 13. Can I navigate from plugin to plugin on a channel from within a single plugin's UI (a la Logic and Studio One)? 14. How much better is comping in X3? It looks like you made improvements here, this is nice. 15. Most importantly: how much less will Sonar X3 crash compared to prior versions? Was there a focus on stability? Perhaps rewriting VST support will fix a lot of that, but I'd like your thoughts. Andrew, I'm glad you guys: 1) may have rewritten VST support entirely (it was overdue, but if it's here, great), and 2) appeared to have made tweaks to Take Lanes (they're a good idea, but were just not implemented well last time), and also 3) have finally got rid of the max plugin limit. These are all good things. However, that's a very small part of what I want to see you guys address. And yes, I'm basing this off of the bullet points I've seen. Andrew, you can come back and answer my questions in a few days once the full info can be released if you can't disclose some of this now. My point: I don't think most of the above has been addressed by X3, so I don't need to use it. If you guys only addressed item #1, I'd be more interested in X3 than I am based on the bullet points that have leaked. If you addressed items 1-5 on my list only, I'd be almost certain to upgrade. I think maybe you covered 2-4 items on the list though, and not enough of my top 5 to get me excited. EDITI just want to add again, there are a lot of things I LOVE in Sonar. I've been a user for over a decade. I'm sour on the direction it's been going, but nothing's permanent. Andrew, if anything, take these critiques as feedback and things you may want to address in some future release (if not already). Work on addressing some of these things. Work on getting me back on the Sonar wagon for X5 or X4 if not sooner. Think about doing less frequent releases with bigger changes too. The late-September/early-October period doesn't NEED to be Sonar time every single year. I'd be fine if you guys waited 18 months to get some of this stuff really ironed out. Consider adding Mac support. Cross-platform support becomes more important to me each year as I occasionally get projects originated on a Mac, or dare I say: after Apple released those awesome looking Mac Pro's.
post edited by Funkybot - 2013/09/26 21:12:45
Intel i7 4790k, ASUS Z97-A mobo, 16GB Kingston DDR3 RAM, Windows 10 x64, UAD2 Duo, RME Fireface 800, Sonar X1/X2 Producer
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 21:56:42
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Funkybot
Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
So you haven't used the product and you've already drawn your conclusion. That sounds pretty reasonable.
Is that Andrew saying, "So you haven't used the product and you've already drawn your conclusion. That sounds pretty reasonable."
If so, let me ask some questions:
1. Did you guys include MP3 encoding for free?
2. Did you guys fix the Disk May Be Full bug? What about how you write/save projects so they don't corrupt so easily? What about duplicate notes on quantization? What about the Sonar icon remaining in the tray after a close (which often prevents a new instance from opening without manually shutting down SonarPDR.exe in the task manager)? Any of those?
3. Did you improve signal flow to allow for more advanced audio routing? Can I route a VSTi output to an audio input?
4. Have you updated the Staff View or improved notation?
5. Will Sonar X3 recognize my mono UAD plugins and use DSP accordingly?
6. Does Sonar X3 include a dynamically resizable vector based console so I can see the full strips in the dock? Did you redesign the console to make better use of screen real estate? The 8.5 console was much better IMO.
7. Did you get rid of the annoying pop-up questions when pasting or inserting an instrument track that distract from Workflow?
8. Did you make it easier to quickly add/subtract outputs to a VSTi (a la Studio One)?
9. Did you finally create proper Instrument Tracks that can house MIDI and audio effects? Do they have all the same functionality as the separate MIDI+audio tracks did, just intelligently combined into one?
10. Did you add varispeed playback and recording like Reaper (man that's fun, and great for some Beatles-esque harmonies)?
11. Is VST 2/3 support FINALLY built in and not part of legacy Fxpansion code from their VST wrapper (which we wouldn't have needed if you opted to support VST natively from the get go and not DXi - but I digress)? Will it recognize which VST plugins send/receive tempo information, and can send receive MIDI without having to go into a separate plugin Properties window?
12. Did you simplify the Snap to Grid features which have clearly caused confusion (used to work great BTW - wasn't broken but it got fixed)
13. Can I navigate from plugin to plugin on a channel from within a single plugin's UI (a la Logic and Studio One)?
14. How much better is comping in X3? It looks like you made improvements here, this is nice.
15. Most importantly: how much less will Sonar X3 crash compared to prior versions? Was there a focus on stability? Perhaps rewriting VST support will fix a lot of that, but I'd like your thoughts.
Andrew, I'm glad you guys: 1) may have rewritten VST support entirely (it was overdue, but if it's here, great), and 2) appeared to have made tweaks to Take Lanes (they're a good idea, but were just not implemented well last time), and also 3) have finally got rid of the max plugin limit. These are all good things. However, that's a very small part of what I want to see you guys address. And yes, I'm basing this off of the bullet points I've seen. Andrew, you can come back and answer my questions in a few days once the full info can be released if you can't disclose some of this now.
My point: I don't think most of the above has been addressed by X3, so I don't need to use it. If you guys only addressed item #1, I'd be more interested in X3 than I am based on the bullet points that have leaked. If you addressed items 1-5 on my list only, I'd be almost certain to upgrade. I think maybe you covered 2-4 items on the list though, and not enough of my top 5 to get me excited.
EDIT
I just want to add again, there are a lot of things I LOVE in Sonar. I've been a user for over a decade. I'm sour on the direction it's been going, but nothing's permanent. Andrew, if anything, take these critiques as feedback and things you may want to address in some future release (if not already). Work on addressing some of these things. Work on getting me back on the Sonar wagon for X5 or X4 if not sooner.
Think about doing less frequent releases with bigger changes too. The late-September/early-October period doesn't NEED to be Sonar time every single year. I'd be fine if you guys waited 18 months to get some of this stuff really ironed out.
Consider adding Mac support. Cross-platform support becomes more important to me each year as I occasionally get projects originated on a Mac, or dare I say: after Apple released those awesome looking Mac Pro's.
I'm just saying you are drawing conclusions based on a few marketing bullets. Why don't we let the product ship first and then we can talk. We are interested in all you have to say. But we can't have this conversation right now when the product is not even out. Way too much speculation going on is the basic point.
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Guitarmech111
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 22:06:36
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So Andrew, since you stepped in this thread, is there going to be an X2b?
X2a could have been in muliple patches? Is that because of poorly engineered software not meeting the customers needs and expectations? I wouldn't brag on that. Probably safer for you to stay out of a thread like this. ;)
As the OP - I would like to know if X2b is 2b expected.
Peace, Conley Shepherd Joyful Noise Productions PC config: (Win performance base score = 7.7) ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX -amd fx-8150 - core processor am3+ - 32G Corsair 1066 DDR3 - PNY GTX670 2g gddr5 - Corsair Force SSD 120G - Samsung 750G SATA drives - WD 1tb Black (Audio files) - WD 2TB for storage - RME UFX - USB ASIO 2/2016 drivers Win8 Without a mess, there is no message
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 22:14:27
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Guitarmech111
So Andrew, since you stepped in this thread, is there going to be an X2b?
X2a could have been in muliple patches? Is that because of poorly engineered software not meeting the customers needs and expectations? I wouldn't brag on that. Probably safer for you to stay out of a thread like this. ;)
As the OP - I would like to know if X2b is 2b expected.
SONAR X3 is the next version in the SONAR product cycle.
post edited by Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk] - 2013/09/26 22:38:52
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cparmerlee
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 22:20:36
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X2b or not X2b? That is the question.
DAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/F: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen2
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backwoods
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 22:28:45
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cparmerlee- look one post above yours and there is the answer
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doncolga
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 22:34:37
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Funkybot
X3 definitely doesn't seem to be it, and I'm not sure it'll ever come.
Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but that's just a silly statement as X3 is not even released yet. I guess you're basing this review on the Sweetwater page? 
HP Z220 Workstation I7 3770, 8 GB RAM, Windows 10, Sonar Platinum, RME Multiface II via PCIe, JBL 4326 w/sub, AvanTone MixCubes
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cparmerlee
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 22:42:55
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backwoods
cparmerlee- look one post above yours and there is the answer
Ah say, it was a joke son. 
DAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/F: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen2
OS: Windows 10 64-bit CPU: Haswell 4790 4.0 GHz, 4 core, 8 thread Memory: 16 GB Video: GTX-760Ti
Storage: Sandisk SSD 500GB for active projects. ReadyNAS 20 TB for long-term storagesonocrafters.com
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backwoods
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 22:45:59
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What is this thing you people call humour? Some jokes just aren't funny when you've read them several thousand times. JMO
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doncolga
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 22:46:43
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Guitarmech111
X2a could have been in muliple patches?
Good grief ya'll are cranky!..is it a full moon? Would it have made you all happier if they'd just divide up the A update into lets say...10 separate updates?...would that make ya'll feel better? Of course it would...you got 10 free updates...those bakers sure are busy! Guitarmech111
Is that because of poorly engineered software not meeting the customers needs and expectations? I wouldn't brag on that.
I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. I'm sure the software is doing just fine for LOTS of users.
HP Z220 Workstation I7 3770, 8 GB RAM, Windows 10, Sonar Platinum, RME Multiface II via PCIe, JBL 4326 w/sub, AvanTone MixCubes
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doncolga
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 22:51:30
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Funkybot
Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
So you haven't used the product and you've already drawn your conclusion. That sounds pretty reasonable.
Is that Andrew saying, "So you haven't used the product and you've already drawn your conclusion. That sounds pretty reasonable."
If so, let me ask some questions:
1. Did you guys include MP3 encoding for free?
2. Did you guys fix the Disk May Be Full bug? What about how you write/save projects so they don't corrupt so easily? What about duplicate notes on quantization? What about the Sonar icon remaining in the tray after a close (which often prevents a new instance from opening without manually shutting down SonarPDR.exe in the task manager)? Any of those?
3. Did you improve signal flow to allow for more advanced audio routing? Can I route a VSTi output to an audio input?
4. Have you updated the Staff View or improved notation?
5. Will Sonar X3 recognize my mono UAD plugins and use DSP accordingly?
6. Does Sonar X3 include a dynamically resizable vector based console so I can see the full strips in the dock? Did you redesign the console to make better use of screen real estate? The 8.5 console was much better IMO.
7. Did you get rid of the annoying pop-up questions when pasting or inserting an instrument track that distract from Workflow?
8. Did you make it easier to quickly add/subtract outputs to a VSTi (a la Studio One)?
9. Did you finally create proper Instrument Tracks that can house MIDI and audio effects? Do they have all the same functionality as the separate MIDI+audio tracks did, just intelligently combined into one?
10. Did you add varispeed playback and recording like Reaper (man that's fun, and great for some Beatles-esque harmonies)?
11. Is VST 2/3 support FINALLY built in and not part of legacy Fxpansion code from their VST wrapper (which we wouldn't have needed if you opted to support VST natively from the get go and not DXi - but I digress)? Will it recognize which VST plugins send/receive tempo information, and can send receive MIDI without having to go into a separate plugin Properties window?
12. Did you simplify the Snap to Grid features which have clearly caused confusion (used to work great BTW - wasn't broken but it got fixed)
13. Can I navigate from plugin to plugin on a channel from within a single plugin's UI (a la Logic and Studio One)?
14. How much better is comping in X3? It looks like you made improvements here, this is nice.
15. Most importantly: how much less will Sonar X3 crash compared to prior versions? Was there a focus on stability? Perhaps rewriting VST support will fix a lot of that, but I'd like your thoughts.
Andrew, I'm glad you guys: 1) may have rewritten VST support entirely (it was overdue, but if it's here, great), and 2) appeared to have made tweaks to Take Lanes (they're a good idea, but were just not implemented well last time), and also 3) have finally got rid of the max plugin limit. These are all good things. However, that's a very small part of what I want to see you guys address. And yes, I'm basing this off of the bullet points I've seen. Andrew, you can come back and answer my questions in a few days once the full info can be released if you can't disclose some of this now.
My point: I don't think most of the above has been addressed by X3, so I don't need to use it. If you guys only addressed item #1, I'd be more interested in X3 than I am based on the bullet points that have leaked. If you addressed items 1-5 on my list only, I'd be almost certain to upgrade. I think maybe you covered 2-4 items on the list though, and not enough of my top 5 to get me excited.
EDIT
I just want to add again, there are a lot of things I LOVE in Sonar. I've been a user for over a decade. I'm sour on the direction it's been going, but nothing's permanent. Andrew, if anything, take these critiques as feedback and things you may want to address in some future release (if not already). Work on addressing some of these things. Work on getting me back on the Sonar wagon for X5 or X4 if not sooner.
Think about doing less frequent releases with bigger changes too. The late-September/early-October period doesn't NEED to be Sonar time every single year. I'd be fine if you guys waited 18 months to get some of this stuff really ironed out.
Consider adding Mac support. Cross-platform support becomes more important to me each year as I occasionally get projects originated on a Mac, or dare I say: after Apple released those awesome looking Mac Pro's.
Of course these are all certainly great requisites and features, but you're essentially bashing X3 before it's even officially released, which I think is a shame. Surely you'll be downloading the trial version and checking through the list yourself as well, correct?
post edited by doncolga - 2013/09/26 23:00:42
HP Z220 Workstation I7 3770, 8 GB RAM, Windows 10, Sonar Platinum, RME Multiface II via PCIe, JBL 4326 w/sub, AvanTone MixCubes
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Fog
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Re: I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!
2013/09/26 23:23:59
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I was looking at my email from 1/3/2012 regarding cubase 6.5... it cost, but considering you were getting 2 decent synths on top of the other stuff, then yer it wasn't so much fleecing that were really more new features than fixes.
that's the time they were changing up the interface for v7, no doubt..
unless they have changed the mp3 thing in 7 is paid for now and included. then the license on my dongle / mp3 is expired.. I use lame anyway.
and the 6.06 update came out later BUT without the synths IRC.. but the update price to 7 had a cheaper value if you had 6.5
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