Bub 
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 12:23:19
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John
... I did find the Patterned Brush missing. There are a couple other things X1 left out ...
You can't say in one paragraph that things are left out and missing and then in the next paragraph (see below in blue) say everything is the same. Over all its a wash. X1 has all the capabilities that Sonar in the past had only now for the most part things have been moved around.
I see it as rather easy to use and understand. Most of the things that have changed have made X1 faster and more user friendly. This does go toward the notion of the things I do most with X1. Things that required endless mouse clicking through menus now are done with just one or two mouse clicks.
Its funny though I did in that thread try to distinguish between personal preference and real missing ability. What we have here is the same basic thing.
Exactly. Just like when you just said "Most of the things that have changed have made X1 faster and more user friendly." ... that's just your opinion and not fact. In fact, it has been shown multiple times here that a lot of functions require more clicks than they used to. Without reading the manual thoroughly people don't have an idea where things are - how they have been implemented. Thus they think one can no longer do something that was done in 8.5 in X1. Ignorance is the cause of this and unfortunately some here promote that ignorance for their own reasons.
I never had to read the manual to use 8.5 except when setting up my sound card. I've never had to read the manual for any piece of software I've ever used as much as I have for X1. It's not intuitive at all, it's convoluted in a lot of ways, and not very user friendly in my opinion. For example ... add nodes at selection ... it was a simple right click in 8.5. It's hidden in X1, and it doesn't tell you how to do it in the manual unless you know beforehand the new terminology they use to describe it. Also confusing on purpose a change of location of a item with missing features is the mark of a troll. It is unworthy of the purpose of this forum. Yet for some reason people don't stop it.
Do you call all of your friends Troll's John? The only people confused here are you and John T. The OP asked about Capabilities and Functions. Not just functions. If you would start a thread that said, "List Functions Missing In X1 That Were There In 8.5" my example of Interleave and Phase would not be on the list. Its as if whatever is said no matter how wrong is valid. When did this forum begin to except such nonsense?
John T keep up the good fight for truth.
Who in their right mind would associate themselves with and pat someone on the back who said they wished a fellow forum member would "die in a fire"? Talk about nonsense. It's almost impossible to have a civil conversation with either one of you.
post edited by Bub - 2011/08/27 12:26:02
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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vintagevibe
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 12:29:12
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John T
vintagevibe
Number 3 has been solved but it is not quite as easy. There can be situations where the ease of use is in itself a funcitoality.
Come on. You seem like a reasonable person. Would you concede that this is a use of language that is likely to confuse?
Imagine you've never used X1. If someone says "Feature X has GONE", your first instinct isn't going to be "ah, yeah, I see what they mean, they mean it's still there, but the current implementation is one that they subjectively find inefficient".
If you've never used Sonar nothing is "gone" for you. If you've been using 8.x you may feel things are "gone". It is a grey area but you are trying to draw a far too distinct line.
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John T
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 12:34:18
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Yes, I said "never used X1". It's not a grey area. A feature is either there or not. Describing a feature that's not been removed as "removed" is incorrect. Surely this is not controversial.
post edited by John T - 2011/08/27 12:37:45
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John T
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 12:37:24
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This is too far out for me, I may need to lie down. Things existing or not being a grey area... I mean, sure, if you want to get all quantum mechanics about it, but I don't think we're quite operating at that level.
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John
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 12:38:22
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Perhaps you overlook that Mike insulted John T way before John T wrote that. Why didn't you come after Mike for his insult?
Is it selective memory?
Also when have I not been civil to you and all others?
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John T
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 12:40:37
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I'm not sure there's much to be gained getting into a discussion about appropriate levels of civility with Mr. "I CALL BS! I CALL BS! I CALL BS! I CALL BS! (etc.)" His lack of awareness about his own sour and aggressive attitude will always stymie a sensible discussion about that.
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John T
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 12:42:47
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Anyway, outside of all this nonsense, how's this actual list coming? Anyone fancy trying to consolidate it?
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Bub
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 12:47:22
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John
Perhaps you overlook that Mike insulted John T way before John T wrote that. Why didn't you come after Mike for his insult?
Is it selective memory?
Mike can get under your skin, so can I, so can you, but when you drag it down to wishing people would die ... come on. If I even have to explain to you why that's a no no John, then there will never be any getting through to you.  And by the way ... if someone would say that to you or John T I would defend you as well. Also when have I not been civil to you and all others?
Uh .. when you call people "Trolls"? Please guys ... let's steer this back on track before it get's closed. Or, if you don't like the way the OP posed his question, then start your own thread and be more clear about the input you would like to see. Thanks. Bub
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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John
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 13:01:25
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vintagevibe
John T
vintagevibe
Number 3 has been solved but it is not quite as easy. There can be situations where the ease of use is in itself a funcitoality.
Come on. You seem like a reasonable person. Would you concede that this is a use of language that is likely to confuse?
Imagine you've never used X1. If someone says "Feature X has GONE", your first instinct isn't going to be "ah, yeah, I see what they mean, they mean it's still there, but the current implementation is one that they subjectively find inefficient".
If you've never used Sonar nothing is "gone" for you. If you've been using 8.x you may feel things are "gone". It is a grey area but you are trying to draw a far too distinct line.
I'm sorry but this is absurd. It is either there or not. "Feeling" about it wont change whether it is there or not or that it can be done or not. It may not work they way you are used to but it still works. The removal of the Patterned Brush tool is a lost feature. Most of the other things listed are not.
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vintagevibe
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 13:12:53
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Let it go. You guys really need to get out more.
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John T
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 13:18:07
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Well, try feeling that I'm not posting. You never know, it might work.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 13:46:07
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Exactly. Just like when you just said "Most of the things that have changed have made X1 faster and more user friendly." ... that's just your opinion and not fact.
That's true it's always opinion In fact, it has been shown multiple times here that a lot of functions require more clicks than they used to.
And this is another thing that isn't a fact. It has been 'claimed' multiple times that a lot of functions require more clicks than they used to but I've still not seen any evidence. But I'll not clog up this thread with that OT point. I'll start a fresh one.
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gmp
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 14:36:19
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Here the list so far of what's missing with a few debunks. no display of which midi recording mode you're in: Overwrite, Sound on sound, autopunch. You have to stop playback and look at the preferences. You have to close preferences to resume playback. 1) Inability to change Key+/- for multiple tracks 2) Inability to make changes to drum maps such as velocity while hearing results -=-=---=- 3) Inability to drag strips in the console view DEBUNK You can do this. Hold down ALT while dragging the control strip. It's easy to think it's not working, if you';ve accidentally clicked part of the control strip that has another function for ALT, eg, you've clicked near the icon, which opens a file box to look for images. I've just got in the habit of dragging from near the top. =-=-=-=-= No Tool Bar customization. No more T1, T2, T3 to instantly adjust tempo. Cakewalk Tuner seems missing too Colour customization is very poor in X1 compared to 8.5 n the staff view, the instrument pane on the right side of screen has always been linked to the active track. This function was probably the major reason the track pane was implemented in the first place: to allow the musician to change active tracks without having to go back to the track view (by the way, this has never been implemented in the event list, you cannot change active tracks in that view). In X1, this feature has been removed, I am not sure whether by mistake or by design 1) Control Bar old dear flexibility, as the one in X1 is, despite its larger size, is in many cases, unusable: Its "Modules" must be customizable, and all visible/usable at once on screens of ANY size/resolution... 2) Features now moved to those old-fashioned multi-level menus should be taken BACK to their places, set to specific tools/buttons to be placeable, at will, on above mentioned Control Bar "modules"... 3) There are features removed from the Track Headers, now available only within the Inspector. They should be also placed, possibly as an option, at their original place... 4) GUI's colors must be fully customizable, and dark skins are highly requested (also proved by Panup's Mods success...). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= the Polarity switch and the Stereo Interleave buttons are gone. Debunk They're gone from the track header, -=-=-=-=. 3. Almost all of the buttons are missing from the Tool Bar that were there in 8.5. 6. I can no longer monitor the percentage of my CPU Usage like I could in 8.5. It is now a graphical representation that kind of leaves you guessing. 7. I can no longer access all envelopes at once like I could in 8.5. 8. Envelopes are no longer labeled like they were in 8.5. 10. Lexicon Reverb is no longer available like it was in 8.5. 11. Note lengths in PRV are not remembered like they were in 8.5. 12. We no longer have the option to remove all VST's like we did in 8.5. ( ... The Pro Channel). Even if you remove the .DLL's, the graphical part of the Pro Channel can not be removed. removal of the Patterned Brush tool
post edited by gmp - 2011/08/27 14:38:17
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John T
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 14:46:03
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Hmm.
Cakewalk Tuner seems missing too
I've got it. I think it's not installed by default, but its there.
1) Control Bar old dear flexibility, as the one in X1 is, despite its larger size, is in many cases, unusable:
Its "Modules" must be customizable, and all visible/usable at once
on screens of ANY size/resolution...
This is unreadable, so hard to argue for or against.
2) Features now moved to those old-fashioned multi-level menus should be taken BACK to their places, set to specific tools/buttons to be placeable, at will, on above mentioned Control Bar "modules"...
This one's not a missing feature. It's an opinion about where things should be.
3) There are features removed from the Track Headers, now available only within the Inspector. They should be also placed, possibly as an option, at their original place...
This one's not a missing feature. It's an opinion about where things should be.
6. I can no longer monitor the percentage of my CPU Usage like I could in 8.5. It is now a graphical representation that kind of leaves you guessing.
It gives a numerical read out on a tool tip if you hover over it.
7. I can no longer access all envelopes at once like I could in 8.5.
Not removed, just "different".
10. Lexicon Reverb is no longer available like it was in 8.5.
If you own the lexicon reverb, then it works in X1. I've been using it myself recently. It's no longer part of the bundle, is all that's happened. Previous owners don't lose it.
11. Note lengths in PRV are not remembered like they were in 8.5.
Fixed in X1c.
12. We no longer have the option to remove all VST's like we did in 8.5. ( ... The Pro Channel). Even if you remove the .DLL's, the graphical part of the Pro Channel can not be removed.
Beneath serious consideration.
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ampfixer
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 15:09:00
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John T
Since you're asking directly, I'll give you an answer. I don't hate you, that would be kind of weird, but I do think you're an irritating pompous ****.
That may be true, but he's a charming **** and you're not.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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John T
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 15:16:51
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Is this the Sonar forum LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE moment?
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ampfixer
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 15:20:04
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mattox82
Exactly... and where do you get your stats from? Where can I view this list of hundreds of bugs, sounds like **** to me.
Read the release notes from X1A,B and C and start adding. One of the poobahs from Roland also mentioned that X1c had something like 160 issues corrected. I don't know if it's 100's, but it is well over 100 for sure. I only stumbled into a handful of issues but I never dispute the claims of others because I didn't see them myself. They're out there.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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ampfixer
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 15:24:12
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John T
Is this the Sonar forum LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE moment?
No it's not. I don't need to defend McQ or anyone else. That was my own observation. For a fella that claims not to like drama you certainly have a way of immersing yourself in it. Go criticize something will you?
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 15:32:09
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John
Perhaps you overlook that Mike insulted John T way before John T wrote that. Why didn't you come after Mike for his insult?
Is it selective memory?
Also when have I not been civil to you and all others?
Since when is agreeing with someone about how they describe their actions an insult? The man say's something like "I'm probably being pedantic"... I reply "Thoroughly" and he replies "I hope you die in a fire". It was, like, a 3 act play in 19 syllables. Have a nice day. best regards, mike
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John T
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 15:34:51
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I don't recall ever claiming to not like drama. I'm really not sure what you're after here.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 15:41:11
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I think we can work this out... you can learn to be civil... and I can learn that you can learn to be civil.
all the best,
mike
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Bub
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 15:47:54
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John T
Hmm.
Cakewalk Tuner seems missing too
I've got it. I think it's not installed by default, but its there.
I was wrong on this. It is in fact there in X1C, I don't remember it being available in X1 ~ X1b/QF's. It says it only supports 44.1/16 so it's pretty much useless anyway. 1) Control Bar old dear flexibility, as the one in X1 is, despite its larger size, is in many cases, unusable:
Its "Modules" must be customizable, and all visible/usable at once
on screens of ANY size/resolution...
This is unreadable, so hard to argue for or against.
It's quite clear if you actually take the time to read it rather than try to put someone down. Not everyone speaks fluent English. Let me phrase it in a way you may understand ... The old Tool Bar (aka Control Bar) was very flexible, but the one in X1, despite it's larger size is in many cases unusable. The Modules need to be customizable and resizable so they can be seen on a variety of monitor sizes and resolutions. 2) Features now moved to those old-fashioned multi-level menus should be taken BACK to their places, set to specific tools/buttons to be placeable, at will, on above mentioned Control Bar "modules"...
This one's not a missing feature. It's an opinion about where things should be.
It is a missing feature compared to 8.5 (which is the comparison the OP is making). You no longer have the ability to add or remove functions in the Tool Bar like you could in 8.5, therefor it is a missing function. Nobody is arguing whether it's better or worse, just that in comparison to 8.5, it is a missing function. 3) There are features removed from the Track Headers, now available only within the Inspector. They should be also placed, possibly as an option, at their original place...
This one's not a missing feature. It's an opinion about where things should be.
What you say is correct, but your answer is not relevant to the OP's inquiry. It is a missing capability which was one of the two criteria the OP was asking for. 6. I can no longer monitor the percentage of my CPU Usage like I could in 8.5. It is now a graphical representation that kind of leaves you guessing.
It gives a numerical read out on a tool tip if you hover over it.
No it does not. It just says "CPU Meter(s)" when you hover over the CPU bars. It gives a percentage value for the HDD and RAM when you hover over them, but not the CPU Meter. 7. I can no longer access all envelopes at once like I could in 8.5.
Not removed, just "different".
Nobody said anything about envelopes being removed ... all I said was I can no longer access all the envelopes at once like I could in 8.5. 10. Lexicon Reverb is no longer available like it was in 8.5.
If you own the lexicon reverb, then it works in X1. I've been using it myself recently. It's no longer part of the bundle, is all that's happened. Previous owners don't lose it.
What you say is correct, but not relevant to the OP's question. The OP asked about capabilities and functions compared to 8.5 and if you compare X1 to 8.5 as stand alone products, you will find that the Lexicon Reverb is no longer a usable function of X1. 11. Note lengths in PRV are not remembered like they were in 8.5.
Fixed in X1c.
Not as far as I can tell. Unless there is an option to turn that capability on/off that I can't seem to find. 12. We no longer have the option to remove all VST's like we did in 8.5. ( ... The Pro Channel). Even if you remove the .DLL's, the graphical part of the Pro Channel can not be removed.
Beneath serious consideration.
Only to someone who isn't serious. The Pro Channel should be like every other VST Sonar has ever included with it's software ... it should be completely uninstallable if the user does not want on his system.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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jps
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 15:57:24
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trimph1
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 19:43:34
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Sheeesh... We all have our way of interpreting verbal performances. But, there is also some form of responsibility in terms of how one reacts to said verbal performance... Consider.... I am probably being pedantic Thoroughly I hope you die in a fire Now, what am I to make of this? It is a rhetorical flourish that really did not need to be said, really. It is sometimes better to bring a peashooter into a discussion than a cannon.... 
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 19:56:38
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11. Note lengths in PRV are not remembered like they were in 8.5.
Fixed in X1c.
Not as far as I can tell. Unless there is an option to turn that capability on/off that I can't seem to find.
In the PRV hit T or middle mouse click. Note length selection comes up on the HUD. The "Last note selection" is in the drop down. Ironically that kinda makes the case for those of us saying hardly anything has been "removed" - moved or changed maybe. Removed, I think the counts still at 1 or 2, but then I'm not counting.............
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timidi
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 20:27:36
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Is there an argument going on here?
Can someone fill me in of who's right and who's wrong and what it's about?
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Bub
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 21:33:11
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FastBikerBoy
11. Note lengths in PRV are not remembered like they were in 8.5.
Fixed in X1c.
Not as far as I can tell. Unless there is an option to turn that capability on/off that I can't seem to find.
In the PRV hit T or middle mouse click. Note length selection comes up on the HUD. The "Last note selection" is in the drop down.
Ironically that kinda makes the case for those of us saying hardly anything has been "removed" - moved or changed maybe. Removed, I think the counts still at 1 or 2, but then I'm not counting.............
Actually, it doesn't make your case. That was removed ... they just put it back with X1c because everybody was complaining about it being taken away. It would have been nice if they would have told us how to utilize it though. I searched the manual and couldn't find anything on it, I even went through all the options when I had the PRV up, it never dawned on me to use the Smart Tool because I never use it in PRV. Is there a list somewhere of new features of X1c and how to use them? Seriously ... thanks for this info FBB! I have no problem being proven wrong if I am in fact wrong! 
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Bub
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 21:37:58
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Ok FBB ... can you help me with this ... I'm doing the adjustments you said and I'm not seeing any change? :( I gotta be doing something wrong here. Got it ... never mind.
post edited by Bub - 2011/08/27 21:45:05
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Bub
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 21:49:41
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timidi
Is there an argument going on here?
Can someone fill me in of who's right and who's wrong and what it's about?
I'm not really sure anymore, and I don't really care to go back and read it all. I'm not one to hold grudges and don't hold on to things for very long. Whatever did or didn't happen is forgotten now AFAIC.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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miguelito
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1...
2011/08/27 22:58:08
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As near as I can tell this is a battle over: "The glass is half empty. No it's half full".
With regards to X1: you can put me firmly on the side of half full...I agree it's not perfect. But when I first started using it and went to the 'Save' button which was no longer there I said: Hmm, Ctrl-S just like every other Windows based application. Then I moved on. I've adopted the same behavior with all the other tools I use. I learn how they work then I adopt my practices to conform to their design. Anything else, for me, would be counter productive.
Regards,
Mike A Roseberry racer w/ Win7 Pro (64) fully loaded RME UFX Fireface; Sonar X2; Guitars and amps. Axon 100 MKII, M-Audio Keystation Pro 88, Komplete All software latest revision
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