robert_e_bone
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 11:27:26
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Artdude
No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
"nuff said"
Tim
PS: For more info see thread X2b or not to be... Yeah, another
I am not at all intending to defend anything or bash you for your post or any of that sort of thing. I did review your recent posts, and there have only been a small number of topics you have participated in. That is neither good or bad, however it does not seem to me that you have expressed anywhere in the Sonar forums that you have any significant workflow stoppages due to any particular problems with Sonar, so I have to say that I do not quite understand your demand for a patch release for which you have not indicated any specific need for. The X2a update, which was the last, literally fixed over 250 different bugs, and I am QUITE sure that whatever the next release is, it WILL have some additional features, and WILL also address some large number of bugs, whether or not it is released as a maintenance release or a new release. I do say this to you, there are QUITE a few folks here in the forum, and the Cakewalk folks do read and jump in too, from time to time, that are quite willing to assist anyone who posts an issue. I spend approximately 15-20 hours a week reading through posts, doing research, and responding to issues that I can help with, and there are many other folks who invest that level of time and effort on the behalf of the Sonar community as well. SOOOO, I would suggest that you figure out which specific issues you would like assistance with, put out individual threads for each of these issues, with as much detail as you can, and we here in the forum community will, as we do for everybody, do our best to either guide you to the appropriate documentation, actually help you solve or resolve each issue, or try to come up with one or more workarounds as needed, so that you can perform your audio processing using X2a. It all starts with YOU posting threads on each and every issue you are having, so that we can help you get them resolved or find other ways of doing what you need doing. There are lots of folks using X2a for production processing, as their main DAW for earning money, and you should be able to do so as well, as long as you get your system stable and learn what you need to know to be able to use X2a - NOTE: there are some system things that need to be at certain levels, and also settings need to be done appropriately, etc., for all of this to work, but that applies to ANY DAW, whether or not it is Sonar, Pro Tools, etc. We ARE here to help you - that is what this forum is for, and there are lots of good folks who gladly donate time and effort to help others get things working properly. OK? I WILL keep an eye out for posts for any issues you are having, and WILL do my best to help you. It is ENTIRELY upon YOU to put in the effort to post your issues and remain engaged with us in the process of getting any or all of them resolved. Bob Bone :)
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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dlion16
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 11:32:31
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i have a problem with cw's strategy of customer blackout..
i mean the one that says, "we're only interested in new customers, so we're in a features race with cubase... we don't care if customers who have been using our product for years are dissatisfied with our buggy product and our lack of communication and our lack of fixing the bugs that have been identified. because we're too busy working on x3." or recommending that uncompressed video is the way to go in sonar.
vegas went through a similar stretch last summer, but they got their act together and even initiated an expanded beta program, asking current forum members to test the upcoming release. got my trust back.
i'll say it: i no longer trust that cw has my back as my daw vendor. sad after so many years...
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brconflict
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 11:46:10
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Well, personally, I don't believe CW to be totally apathetic to our issues or concerns (I can't speak for Roland, however--I don't know them at all, and I'm not 100% happy with any of the Roland products that I own; they still may be a great company compared to Yamaha). I know how developing a very complex product loaded with tons of features on an old frame can be. Just look at the videos and the Reference Guide to see how packed out this software is with functionality and flexibility. Plus, as we've seen, it's likely there is a lower number of developers on staff. At least, that's the perception I have. With that in mind, every time we punish the company for lack of involvement or lack of updates, I'm sure the teams there are more and more deflated thinking they'll never catch up to make us all happy. I'd apologize to the developers themselves, but the strategy team(s) I don't envy. You guys aren't winning battles with us, and it sucks, I know.
Let me ask this one simple question to Cakewalk customers, and I don't need a response: Would 100% of all Cakewalk X2 customers like to see X2b, whether or not it fixes every reported issue or even revisited Take Lanes, or would 100% of Cakewalk X2 customers want to give up X2 for X3?
Brian Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
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bobguitkillerleft
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 11:58:40
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Hi,
Yeah,I read,and watched a vid of the new Logic X,and the drummer situation[silouettes of people as drummers!,with "names"!] with how it seems to work, looked quite interesting,and for $200 it does seems a pretty good deal,but no 32 bit plugs,64 bit AU only which seems a bit dumb,when Logic 9 64 bit had a bridge......they just decided to exclude it this time.
I have to admit I'am apple intrigued,as there are some Win things I truly hate-backing up,being the worst,but the only semi affordable HW,seems to be the mac mini,so who knows if i'll ever go there.
Iv'e only used a computer,so I could learn to use a Daw since April 2011,and man it took me along time to get my first project done,so even though exporting gives me hassle[it's this dell xps L502x laptop]like sometimes only actually completing the export on the 5th or so try[works perfect with signature desktop,but it's either freezing,or too hot down that end of this house,plus- I'm having a hate/hate relationship,with my "nearfield" KRK G2 5" monitors,my 1/2 Tannoy stereo setup is far clearer-I only mix at low volume-sorry long "bracketed" rave!],but I love the way I know it now,and I went and bought Harrison Mixbuss recently,and it's truly like starting all over again,plus it's 32 bit,and lots of my plugins don't work,but after finally importing a raw mix,I must say IT has a NICE sound,but it'll be a long while before I'm multitracking with it.
I also have had a similar experience with the free Samplitude 11,nice sound,but fluency,is a long way off,no all I can say is good luck Herman with your NEW choice,but keep X2 around,it might surprise you.
Bob
https://soundcloud.com/rks26https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hitmen Lenovo W540 Factoryrefurb SONAR PLATINUM,Ozone 7 N.I. KA6 Komplete 9 SSD4 Platinum Epi L/H LP Custom Headstock broken twice and fixed.Gibson L/H Les Paul 2010 Wine Red Studio stupid Right Hand Vol.Tone for Left Hand?LH84Ibanez RS135 gen.FloydRose JB Marshall 100w 2203 4x25w Celestion Green backs "You are what you is"-Frank Zappa "But I'm gonna wave my freak flag high"-Jimi Hendrix
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rabeach
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 13:49:11
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Jackdied
I think the most of "happy w x2a " users are not working in industry. Maybe these little issues are not a big deal for them. But trust me i could loose my client and can not pay my flat rents just because of a single crash. So every single bug are potential troubles for my business. That's why i'm coming here and looking for X2b update everyday. Thats why I am impatient. Please understand my/our situation.
ahh also sorry for my English.
Clients come and go. I don't care what they think about software or computers. They pay me for my professional knowledge and skills. I guess I just don't run into clients that have never seen a computer crash before. But I do read so many posts on here about losing clients because the software did this or that in front them. As a professional it is your responsibility to know the limitations of the tools you use. I don't get it maybe someone will take the time to clue me in.
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mmorgan
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 14:17:24
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For me the equation is No $$$ = no X3. I've out purchased my funds this year. ;-)
Regards,
Mike Win8(64), Sonar X3e(64) w/ RME Fireface UFX.
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simpleman
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 14:36:59
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Maybe, Cakewalk deliver an X2b and it is nothing more than a placebo it will please some folks. Just that no! It cannot happen because I believe in the integrity of the company. But, sometimes the "panty teasing" actually works. (sorry ladies).
Cubase came to the 64 bit platform about 10 years after Cakewalk. And, just about all others as well.
At this point I hope Cakewalk have another innovative leap up its sleeve. Or, an X3 with enough oomph to draw the malcontents back.
Regardless, I work around the limitations of Sonar and supplement it with a free market arsenal of 3rd party products, for my necessity. The most important factor is: Sonar X series, I have had a few crashes, which were always related to a 3rd party older product; but most significantly, I have never lost any data.
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dorism
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 14:39:25
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rabeach
Jackdied
I think the most of "happy w x2a " users are not working in industry. Maybe these little issues are not a big deal for them. But trust me i could loose my client and can not pay my flat rents just because of a single crash. So every single bug are potential troubles for my business. That's why i'm coming here and looking for X2b update everyday. Thats why I am impatient. Please understand my/our situation.
ahh also sorry for my English.
Clients come and go. I don't care what they think about software or computers. They pay me for my professional knowledge and skills. I guess I just don't run into clients that have never seen a computer crash before. But I do read so many posts on here about losing clients because the software did this or that in front them. As a professional it is your responsibility to know the limitations of the tools you use. I don't get it maybe someone will take the time to clue me in.
Agreed - which is why I turned off autozoon to avoid the mexican wave. Some bugs didn't have workarounds. If I needed to move a clip, for instance, it would jump around everywhere apart from where I needed it. Really frustrating.
www.thehadroncollider.co.uk
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dorism
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 14:42:14
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☄ Helpfulby wormser 2013/07/20 10:28:48
brconflict
Well, personally, I don't believe CW to be totally apathetic to our issues or concerns (I can't speak for Roland, however--I don't know them at all, and I'm not 100% happy with any of the Roland products that I own; they still may be a great company compared to Yamaha). I know how developing a very complex product loaded with tons of features on an old frame can be. Just look at the videos and the Reference Guide to see how packed out this software is with functionality and flexibility. Plus, as we've seen, it's likely there is a lower number of developers on staff. At least, that's the perception I have. With that in mind, every time we punish the company for lack of involvement or lack of updates, I'm sure the teams there are more and more deflated thinking they'll never catch up to make us all happy. I'd apologize to the developers themselves, but the strategy team(s) I don't envy. You guys aren't winning battles with us, and it sucks, I know.
Let me ask this one simple question to Cakewalk customers, and I don't need a response: Would 100% of all Cakewalk X2 customers like to see X2b, whether or not it fixes every reported issue or even revisited Take Lanes, or would 100% of Cakewalk X2 customers want to give up X2 for X3?
My advice to Cake is - no more features at the moment. The priority should be absolutely stability - squash as many bugs as possible in X2. Win people back. Get them using X2 again. Then make sure X3 absolutely kicks arse when it comes out. Simple 
www.thehadroncollider.co.uk
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ugp
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 15:52:33
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Who's to say they wouldn't do the same thing with X3... So for me I would like to see X2b before I put anymore money into Sonar Products (I actually just upgraded to X2 a couple of months ago... I should have waited longer)
p.s. I too have been using cakewalk products since the 12 tone days, will just have to see what comes before my money gets spent, here or somewhere else though in either case it will be a while
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dorism
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 16:25:55
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ugp
Who's to say they wouldn't do the same thing with X3... So for me I would like to see X2b before I put anymore money into Sonar Products (I actually just upgraded to X2 a couple of months ago... I should have waited longer)
p.s. I too have been using cakewalk products since the 12 tone days, will just have to see what comes before my money gets spent, here or somewhere else though in either case it will be a while
Apart from the X series Cakewalk have a really good track record at bug fixing IMHO. They have normally released a good few fixes before the next version. What's happening now is not 'normal'.
www.thehadroncollider.co.uk
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Jackdied
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 16:53:58
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Maybe they are codding Sonar from scratch. Because Sonars base codes are pretty old so maybe some of the modern features need to be coded by different perception. I think they are coding for new V-vocal, Flex time algo, new audiosnap, etc. And they don't want to fix "old codes", they want to rewrite them. Of course these are just my guesses. :D I am completely ignorant at programming. :)
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dorism
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 16:56:35
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Thats what I'm hoping for. 
www.thehadroncollider.co.uk
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sharke
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 17:27:44
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New code = a whole new wave of bugs!
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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vlab
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 17:36:23
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You guys are dreaming lol !
Cake certainly is not reprogramming Sonar "from scratch"!
That would be a recipe for disaster .. that would create way more bugs than there is now... ;)
Also that would be assuming that their previous coding work was not up to par, and did not deserved to get released in the first place...
and that would annihilate months or years of testing, QA, troubleshooting...
Cheers!
V
Systems: Intel I7 970 hexacore, 24gbRAM, UAD2, TC powercoreFW, SSL duendeFW, MOTU 896HD, Dell Vostro 3750 (i7 quadcore), 16gbRAM, NI KA6. UAD2, SSL duende native, Merging/Benchmarks converters, Tannoy Ellipse 8, Yamaha HS50m, Novation remote SL49,
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ugp
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 17:44:11
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Jackdied
Maybe they are codding Sonar from scratch. Because Sonars base codes are pretty old so maybe some of the modern features need to be coded by different perception. I think they are coding for new V-vocal, Flex time algo, new audiosnap, etc. And they don't want to fix "old codes", they want to rewrite them. Of course these are just my guesses. :D I am completely ignorant at programming. :)
sound like more than a $99 upgrade. sharke
New code = a whole new wave of bugs!
yep, Like i said i would wait till at least X3b was out(if it ever came out) than checkout the forum thoroughly before spending money. dorism
ugp
Who's to say they wouldn't do the same thing with X3... So for me I would like to see X2b before I put anymore money into Sonar Products (I actually just upgraded to X2 a couple of months ago... I should have waited longer)
p.s. I too have been using cakewalk products since the 12 tone days, will just have to see what comes before my money gets spent, here or somewhere else though in either case it will be a while
Apart from the X series Cakewalk have a really good track record at bug fixing IMHO. They have normally released a good few fixes before the next version. What's happening now is not 'normal'.
I know, this plus the other changes with the company, makes it all the worse IMHO. If they would only say something about anything it would calm people down. It is nice of people on the forum to offer help with things, but come on sending them more problems for them to add to their list of bugs??? without asking for an update or any news of...
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WDI
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 18:29:39
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bobguitkillerleft
Hi,Yeah,I read,and watched a vid of the new Logic X,and the drummer situation[silouettes of people as drummers!,with "names"!] with how it seems to work, looked quite interesting,and for $200 it does seems a pretty good deal,but no 32 bit plugs,64 bit AU only which seems a bit dumb,when Logic 9 64 bit had a bridge......they just decided to exclude it this time.
Bob
$200 does seem like a very good price. But one thing that needs mentioning is that it appears that Apples new pricing scheme appears to offer no upgrade price. So it's a flat $200 for everybody. I actually like this. Lower the price across the board but its a flat fee for everyone. So it doesn't look like they will offer upgrade prices in the future. I have no idea if this is true. Just got the info from MacWeekly podcast. But they were speculating. I always liked how Mesa Boogie did this flat pricing. It is what it is. No games being played like buying airline tickets.
Sonar 7 PE Windows XP Pofessional (SP3) MSI K8N Neo4-F AMD Athlon 64 3500+ 2 GB PC 3200 Ram RME Fireface 800 Edirol FA-66 CM Labs MotorMix Old stuff: ARJO
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Lemonboy
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 19:09:38
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I've upgraded from Logic 9 to 10 but other work has prevented me from giving it a good drive yet, but flex pitch looked good after a very quick play. There is a lot to be positive about in Logic 10, but there is also a lot of great things in Sonar. Things come and go in waves and for a long time Sonar offered some features that other DAWs could only dream of. 'Maybe', Cake have hit a temporary trough, but whose to say that X2b (if it comes), X2.5 or X3 won't move Sonar ahead of the game again.
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SuperG
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 19:09:47
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WDI
$200 does seem like a very good price. But one thing that needs mentioning is that it appears that Apples new pricing scheme appears to offer no upgrade price. So it's a flat $200 for everybody. I actually like this. Apple never made its fortunes on software - always the hardware. Their software was always sky-high priced, because they had a smaller market and a captive audience. Now that the middle man is gone, they can cut prices drastically. This helps seed more users into their hardware, and they can easily afford to subsidize things given the 30% idiot tax Apple places on it products produced by others that can only be sold at it's mandatory app market. No need for a huge ROI here - the bridge toll's got ya covered.
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Rain
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 19:39:05
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SuperG
bladetragic
Other than Pro Tools, Logic was the only other DAW that was in EVERY major studio I went to during my time there b/c they all had Macs.
That's been a phenomenon among media professionals for a long time. It's always been a big part of Apple's marketing strategy to present its computers and software as something you don't need to be a computer expert for. Of course, that's all hogwash (Mac's aren't any brighter or easier to use than PC's), but the guy buying into Apple's schtick doesn't know that. The key is, once you get a critical mass going, others simply buy the same configuration, and the hell with other considerations.
I'm always surprised to see how technically inclined and geeky a lot of the professional musicians and studio owner I speak with are. I myself used to build my own PCs and even acted as basic tech support in the call centers where I worked. I now use Mac exclusively and my life in the studio has never been better. Call it hogwash all you want, but I do find Mac much simpler to use. And I'm not alone. There's always this assumption that people buy Mac because they're a bit dumb and gullible, almost as if they weren't competent enough to figure out how PCs work or how much better they are. That is hogwash. The only considerations that most of them don't care about is wasting time shopping around for components, testing them for compatibility, constantly hot rodding their machines and comparing specs. Unlike many PC user, computers and computer maintenance are not one of their hobbies. They use it to get the job done and once it's done, they're off living a life, not testing how well their PC perform or playing World of Warcraft. Whatever any one claims on the internet, the proof is in the pudding - the vast majority of the professional recording industry use Mac. One would have to be pretty stubborn to insist that none of those guys know anything about computers and that they just use what they've been told to use. Anyway, having met and talked w/ quite a few of them, I know that's b.s.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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Rain
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 19:53:10
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WDI
$200 does seem like a very good price. But one thing that needs mentioning is that it appears that Apples new pricing scheme appears to offer no upgrade price. So it's a flat $200 for everybody. I actually like this. Lower the price across the board but its a flat fee for everyone. So it doesn't look like they will offer upgrade prices in the future. I have no idea if this is true. Just got the info from MacWeekly podcast. But they were speculating.
I always liked how Mesa Boogie did this flat pricing. It is what it is. No games being played like buying airline tickets.
$200 is totally fair, IMHO. For Logic 9, Apple offered 4 years of free updates and fixes - I think there were like 11 of them, the most recent earlier this spring - that's quite a lot of value for the $, isn't it. ( Not that it wasn't stable or rock solid by the way, but w/ computers, the slightest thing you update here can have an effect there. So Apple did a terrific job keeping Logic up to date and working through all the changes.) Plus, you can install Logic on as many computers as you own (as long as you're using the same Apple ID on all of them).
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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SuperG
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 20:29:25
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Rain
Whatever any one claims on the internet, the proof is in the pudding - the vast majority of the professional recording industry use Mac. One would have to be pretty stubborn to insist that none of those guys know anything about computers and that they just use what they've been told to use. Anyway, having met and talked w/ quite a few of them, I know that's b.s.
It isn't that there's not computer professionals among the studio crowd, nor is it that everyone is forced to use a mac. There's plenty of PC users around. But installed-base gravity has it's pull - it's a tremendous influence that has nothing at all to do with immediate economic, ergonomic, quality, or suitability concerns. People in the industry trend towards mac's because everyone else is, and it's a whole lot easier to share productions and know-how that way. There is something to be said for standard computer configurations - it can be a time saver. It does have a cost though, nor does it necessarily indicate that the chosen computer is any better (or worse) than another. Numbers, however, can be deceiving. If the number of studio professionals using mac's were an indicator of some measurable quantity of, say, goodness, the sheer number of PC users in the world would have to point that out as questionable logic.
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musec03
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 20:35:23
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JackDied ...you are 110% correct.
I make a lot of bucks with X2a as a main platform ...all my work is private and I"m in charge of all workflow scheduling and deliveries...
IF it were not that case ...I might have second thoughts about relying solely upon my dearly beloved SONAR X2a
It is problematic in certain areas and there are 1000's of cases where certain people get certain things "fixed" ...and many simply do not.
You're right in the case that someone who isn't dependent upon production for a living would simply shrug off catastrophe ...have a beer, eat dinner and start over...
I'm sure everyone's work is as important to them as anyone else... but yeah...we get through the day and make it work with our choice of tools to finish projects and get paid....
Bottom Line is I like X2a and Sonar going back to 8.0 ...a lot.
I've worked with Cakewalk tech support on some hairy problems that involved international teams... one problem was so deep into the core of the programming no one gave my claims much attention ...but then one day... partly due to persistence and partly due to the attentiveness of one person in Boston ...we uncovered a similar case in Germany...(yeah) soon the ball got rolling and some major issues that were resulting in a heck of a lot more crashes back then was addressed and solved. Don't ask me the details ...that was over 2 years ago ...and I ain't that smart!
I'm having an issue now with SONAR freezing monetarily after inserting any soft synth ... I've filed reports and monitored responses to my posts here...
once again, slowly, I'm building a case for more research into the situation.
Incidentally ...this occurred AFTER installing X2a ...so "something" was changed...
...and more of us are starting to report our experiences.
Every DAW has problems unique unto itself ...in the end operators must be aware of shortcomings, have an understanding of how to work within the capabilities of the software and have their digital duct tape ready to roll when life is dependent upon A/V production.
No one HAS to work with something they just don't like ...and sometimes we turn to the supplier to vent our frustration(s)
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Rain
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 20:40:16
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I honestly believe that it's a mix of both. Yes, it does make life a lot easier when working with others. But the computer itself also lend itselfbetter to this type of task out of the box.
Quick exemple. Lets say my Mac dies tomorrow. All I need to do is go to the Mac store, buy a new one, log into the App Store, download Logic, hook up my external HD and I'm up and running again - I can pick up right where I left. My DAW, the OS and the hardware are all provided by the same guys. The level of integration is not a negligible advantage, imho.
I don't even need to install drivers for my audio interface - the default ones supplied by Apple actually outperform most of the manufacturers' own. And that is exactly the type of little things which make the difference in the end, and one of the reason why many consider Mac to be a better platform - because it moves out of the way and lets you focus on what you want to do - in this case, music - not how to get the computer to do it (though some people obviously prefer the later and that's ok)..
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SuperG
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 21:56:40
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Integration is certainly not negligible; I can certainly agree. In short, what both you and I described in so many words is vertical integration, i.e. turnkey systems. Unfortunately, that just doesn't make it better, just more *defined* (which has value). You can just as easily, if you like, get a vendor to sell you a turnkey PC-based DAW as well, and they'll stand behind it. But the moment you crack open a computer's case by yourself, mac or PC, you're on your own.
The advantage apple has in the turnkey arena has to do with you can buy a specific model from any apple vendor, whether or not that vendor knows the difference between a mouse and usb cable. With a PC DAW specialist, he must personally test and qualify the system against the intended DAW package, since he is personally guaranteeing the system. You can of course, obtain such special services and guarantees for custom configured mac's from some vendors, but it costs too. (It also negates the 'it just works' mantra some use as a selling point.)
Now, the rest of what you describe is standard apple-speak, the 'schtick' as I called it earlier.
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jscomposer
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/18 23:30:07
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Rain
WDI
$200 does seem like a very good price. But one thing that needs mentioning is that it appears that Apples new pricing scheme appears to offer no upgrade price. So it's a flat $200 for everybody. I actually like this. Lower the price across the board but its a flat fee for everyone. So it doesn't look like they will offer upgrade prices in the future. I have no idea if this is true. Just got the info from MacWeekly podcast. But they were speculating.
I always liked how Mesa Boogie did this flat pricing. It is what it is. No games being played like buying airline tickets.
$200 is totally fair, IMHO. For Logic 9, Apple offered 4 years of free updates and fixes - I think there were like 11 of them, the most recent earlier this spring - that's quite a lot of value for the $, isn't it. (Not that it wasn't stable or rock solid by the way, but w/ computers, the slightest thing you update here can have an effect there. So Apple did a terrific job keeping Logic up to date and working through all the changes.)
Plus, you can install Logic on as many computers as you own (as long as you're using the same Apple ID on all of them).
And if you jump over to Mac you can use your existing PC as a slave running VEPro 5. The best part is you can still continue using your favourite VST's without ever installing them on the Mac. I must admit, Logic Pro X is very tempting...and has solid film scoring features. For example, you can actually export a Quicktime video file, containing your score.
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WDI
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/19 00:32:35
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SuperG
WDI
$200 does seem like a very good price. But one thing that needs mentioning is that it appears that Apples new pricing scheme appears to offer no upgrade price. So it's a flat $200 for everybody. I actually like this.
Apple never made its fortunes on software - always the hardware. Their software was always sky-high priced, because they had a smaller market and a captive audience. Now that the middle man is gone, they can cut prices drastically. This helps seed more users into their hardware, and they can easily afford to subsidize things given the 30% idiot tax Apple places on it products produced by others that can only be sold at it's mandatory app market. No need for a huge ROI here - the bridge toll's got ya covered.
Hopefully I understand what you said... Agree, you pay up front to buy the hardware. But at the same time, take for instance the MacBook Pro Retina. no doubt that it is an expensive laptop. But at the same time, IMO it is a very nicely built machine. It makes all the $500 - $1000 PC laptops look like they cost 1/3rd less, which they do. The screens alone on these look tremendously better. So ya, you do pay for the hardware, but at the same time, it is nice hardware. I personally like their software also. To me the gestures for getting around on their OS make sense. So ya, I would agree with you that you pay more for apple just to use there hardware. But at the same time, it's not like they are selling you crap. It's pretty nice. I'm not trying to sell anyone one Apple. Besides using apple mobile devices the last few years, I've always been a PC guy But for me, having always built my own PCs, working in IT troubleshooting PC problems, and being the go to guy for family and friends PC problems, there definitely is something to be said for standardizing on hardware. I'm at the point now where I could care less how things work and having to troubleshoot. I don't believe the apple world is perfect. But if its any better, then I'm willing to pay more. Also, I like the idea of having one support for the whole computer.
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Rain
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/19 01:12:08
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SuperG
Integration is certainly not negligible; I can certainly agree. In short, what both you and I described in so many words is vertical integration, i.e. turnkey systems. Unfortunately, that just doesn't make it better, just more *defined* (which has value). You can just as easily, if you like, get a vendor to sell you a turnkey PC-based DAW as well, and they'll stand behind it. But the moment you crack open a computer's case by yourself, mac or PC, you're on your own.
The advantage apple has in the turnkey arena has to do with you can buy a specific model from any apple vendor, whether or not that vendor knows the difference between a mouse and usb cable. With a PC DAW specialist, he must personally test and qualify the system against the intended DAW package, since he is personally guaranteeing the system. You can of course, obtain such special services and guarantees for custom configured mac's from some vendors, but it costs too. (It also negates the 'it just works' mantra some use as a selling point.)
Now, the rest of what you describe is standard apple-speak, the 'schtick' as I called it earlier.
And I say that you calling it Apple speak and schtick is irrelevant - and a nice way to once again imply that Apple users simply don't know what they're talking about. Need I remind you: I use a Mac. I know computers very well - PC AND Mac alike. I find Mac simpler to use. There are many others to tell you just the same. Period. It's got nothing to do w/ you and your opinion. What you decide to call my (and other people's) experience is all yours. The value of my experience to me? You don't know that. What you decide to imagine is the reason for my preference is all in your head. You don't know me. You don't know the people I'm referring to. Don't you realize at one point that there might be some things that are only assumptions and guesses on your part which hold no value in a discussion? You can chose to ignore or discredit the above or to label it Apple-speak. Facts are facts, whether you agree w/ them or not, or whatever you decide to call them. The better platform is, in the end, a personal choice. And that's something that's far beyond your authority. Whatever you say or type - I know that my life in the studio is a lot easier since I bought a Mac and that I spend a lot more time being productive and less time thinking about computer-related things. BTW, I also gave the example of the default Core audio driver which you conveniently ignored. It has nothing to do w/ Apple Speak or vertical integration as you call it. My audio interface is made by Focusrite, not Apple. The one before was M-Audio. In both case, just plugging the USB cable and I was done. Rock solid performance and RTL as good as it gets. How's that for a stupid reason to like a Mac? A Mac - any Mac will have you working on your music in a blink. And no it's not just like custom PC. It's actually the exact opposite. It's any Mac. You don't have to hunt down a good specialist and explain what you want to do with the computer. Apple make Final Cut Pro and Logic, one of the most powerful and complete DAW software there is. Mainstage is one the most widely used platform on stage, and it also happen to be made by Apple. A Mac comes w/ Garage Band installed and rock solid audio drivers to start using it on the spot. They even offer free piano lessons for download via GB. All that stuff is only a few clicks away at most. Media creation and management has always been one of Apple's battle horse. One would have to be in denial to try and pretend that it's all hype and that the user experience cannot be regarded as "better" depending on a person's priority. In the face of all this and so much more, Apple schtick all you want...
post edited by Rain - 2013/07/19 01:19:48
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Rain
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/19 01:16:00
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WDI
But at the same time, take for instance the MacBook Pro Retina. no doubt that it is an expensive laptop. But at the same time, IMO it is a very nicely built machine. It makes all the $500 - $1000 PC laptops look like they cost 1/3rd less, which they do. The screens alone on these look tremendously better. So ya, you do pay for the hardware, but at the same time, it is nice hardware.
And when it's time to upgrade, you can actually resell the darn thing! When we moved here, I actually had to pay to get rid of my old PCs. For my wife's 4 or 5 years old MacBook (which had a defective power supply), we placed an ad and it was sold the next day for a couple of hundred $.
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GIM Productions
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Re: No X2b = No $$$ for Cake and off to another sequencer!
2013/07/19 03:40:05
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Jackdied
I think the most of "happy w x2a " users are not working in industry. Maybe these little issues are not a big deal for them. But trust me i could loose my client and can not pay my flat rents just because of a single crash. So every single bug are potential troubles for my business. That's why i'm coming here and looking for X2b update everyday. Thats why I am impatient. Please understand my/our situation.
ahh also sorry for my English.
You wrong mate!! I'm a pro ,i'm working on many international releases and our works have been reviewed by Defected records and Tony Humphries,i have done five songs for important italian Christmas's movies... then i'm in the industry. So many clients choose Sonar Prj over ProTools Prj for its detailed and deep sound......for me Sonar is the best DAW,for me........but,excuse me, when i use a new stuff, before, I read the manual. Best
Intel i7 3600,Asus Z170P,16 GIG Corsair ram,Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 i\o,Nektar Impact LX 49,Focusrite Liquid Mix,Monitors ADAM-K&H,Sonar Platinum Windows 10 SP1 Producer....more stuff in SStudio, Rome ,Italy.
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