michael diemer
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Re: No notation fixes!
2016/06/28 01:12:53
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Thank you for that informative explanation. What you do may indeed be the best way to work, in a perfect world. but that assumes one has the kind of mental focus to keep jumping back and forth. I for one don't. Like Jerry, I work on the sound end, using Sonar, and now Reaper, to give me the feedback I need with the orchestration. I use staff view (notation view in Reaper) heavily. Like Jerry, I also started out with pencil and paper. I then transferred to ink, going so far one time as to write out a cello sonata backwards. Being left-handed, and not having quick-dry ink, that's how I had to do it. Then I realized I could do it in pencil, and take it to Kinko's and turn up the dark setting all the way. Eventually, I got Cakewalk 6 way back in the 90's, and that's what I've been using until recently, when I decided to give Reaper a try. What impresses me about it is that the developers were able to create a notation feature in about 6 months. I am confident they will continue to improve it.
I guess I have a curious style of working, whereby I work in a DAW, but use it as if it were notation, in that what I do is tied to notes, but the sound capabilities of Sonar allowed me to really experiment with orchestration. I did experience frustration when I printed out Cakewalk's notation. I had to write in a bunch of stuff by hand. but being a hobbyist, I was only interested in getting something that captured what I had done on paper. I could send it to the copyright office, for example. And if I lost all my electronic work, I would at least have that. I have been revising much of my work since retiring, and wanted to produce decent scores, so I bought Notion. Again, I'm not interested in perfect engraving-quality results, but definitely something better than Sonar. I guess I'm somewhere in between You and Jerry. I really only am trying to please myself, so I can cut corners, so to speak.
Perhaps we come to do music the way we do it, as a result of the products we use, and we evolve a work flow out of that. If, when I began doing computer music in the late 90's, and there had been something like Dorico around, I might now have that iterative work flow you describe. But I only had Cakewalk 6, so I am where I am. I agree with Jerry that Sonar's staff view is adequate for those who use it as an aid to composing. He is correct about the need for infinite scrolling. When Reaper was developing their notation, I emphasized the importance of this, and they listened. It's a bit more cumbersome than Sonar's, but then it allows you to add fermatas, dots, and so on, so it is already much more evolved than Sonar's. And I'm sure it will only get better. And learning a new DAW has the added bonus of exercising my aging brain and maybe holding off the dreaded disintegration we all fear.
Oh well, enough rambling. Interesting conversation, though. It's made me think about how I do what I do, and whether there could be a better way. Time will tell.
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cparmerlee
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Re: No notation fixes!
2016/06/28 11:18:36
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michael diemer
What you do may indeed be the best way to work, in a perfect world. but that assumes one has the kind of mental focus to keep jumping back and forth. Nobody has ever accused me of having too much mental focus. :) I actually meander around until I am happy with the total result.
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Carlo Celuque
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Re: No notation fixes!
2016/07/06 15:48:18
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+1 for fixing the Staff view. We are just asking to fix some bugs in the staff view. Have you tried to edit a note outside the clefs lines? It is a nightmare! You have to find a secret place somewhere near the head of a note in order to open the edit window option.
There was one third party developer (Sonar Plus) who developed a better addon for sonar staff view some years ago and it was great!
I like to work in a staff view while listening to the sounds of the VSTis I am using on sonar, it is completely different than open another better staff view DAW with other VSTi sounds and come back to sonar.
I think I will have to move my attention on how to work with piano roll because it`s taking too long and worse.
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bielphc
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Re: No notation fixes!
2016/12/11 20:13:24
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Please, i work only with orchestral music in Sonar.
Rolling updates is just Ripple and comping improvements for now. Please, update Staff View!
Cockos is working hard on his notation built-in software in Reaper. It's amazing. Sonar is behind, unfortunately.
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pbognar
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Re: No notation fixes!
2016/12/11 21:23:46
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Indeed, what Cockos has been able to accomplish in a short period of time is nothing short of amazing, and considering the user base is audio centric, it is surprising that MIDI notation even exists.
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outland144k
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Re: No notation fixes!
2016/12/11 22:07:06
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Anderton
Jimbo 88
You know it would not be so bad if you could rewire a notation software so that notation you create (say thru midi) would transfer into Sonar.
Don't people do that already with Notion or some other program?
And FWIW, the last time this was brought I'm pretty sure someone from Cakewalk said it was not a priority for the next update.
Finale is ReWire now and does show up in Sonar. I can't tell you anything else about it; I just upgraded Finale and haven't had the the chance to play with the ReWire aspect, except to make sure that is does indeed show up and open in Sonar. Though I read music just fine, it's not been that big of a deal for me to integrate visual representation and audio at that level. Maybe Finale's ReWire will interject another way for me to consider this.
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cparmerlee
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Re: No notation fixes!
2016/12/11 23:18:24
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outland144k
Finale is ReWire now and does show up in Sonar. I can't tell you anything else about it; I just upgraded Finale and haven't had the the chance to play with the ReWire aspect, except to make sure that is does indeed show up and open in Sonar. Though I read music just fine, it's not been that big of a deal for me to integrate visual representation and audio at that level. Maybe Finale's ReWire will interject another way for me to consider this.
The Finale support is really weak. It is limited to stereo audio file only. It cannot pipe audio from each instrument separately. And it can't send MIDI at all. You can send MIDI via LoopBE. Personally I don't see much use in Rewire support at this level. I have piped the MIDI from Finale to SONAR and that works file, but that doesn't really need any transport support. I just render the MIDI within SONAR in real time.
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jassbass
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The way to get it to work is to save the project as MIDI
2017/01/17 16:08:43
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I've gotten note notation from the XML option in print but the Ties don't show up in Sibelius. I have success by doing a MIDI save as of the project and importing that to Sibelius. Until then this seems the best option. As a jazz musician having my Trumpet and Trombone solo's transcribed are very interesting. It also, helps me improve as an improviser.
Steps to save as MIDI:
1. select File menu
2. select MIDI in the Save as Type Dropdown
3. make a note of where you are saving the file.
4. Open Sibelius and choose the option to import MIDI
Note: If you are working with a Sonar version newer than X3 and have several midi tracks they will all show up in the score on one system. Select import each track in a separate system from the options menu. [image]C:\Users\romul\Dropbox\Screenshots\Screenshot 2017-01-17 12.54.43[/image][image]C:\Users\romul\Dropbox\Screenshots\Screenshot 2017-01-17 12.54.43[/image]
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jsg
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Re: The way to get it to work is to save the project as MIDI
2017/01/18 01:42:07
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jassbass
I've gotten note notation from the XML option in print but the Ties don't show up in Sibelius. I have success by doing a MIDI save as of the project and importing that to Sibelius. Until then this seems the best option. As a jazz musician having my Trumpet and Trombone solo's transcribed are very interesting. It also, helps me improve as an improviser.
Steps to save as MIDI:
1. select File menu
2. select MIDI in the Save as Type Dropdown
3. make a note of where you are saving the file.
4. Open Sibelius and choose the option to import MIDI
Note: If you are working with a Sonar version newer than X3 and have several midi tracks they will all show up in the score on one system. Select import each track in a separate system from the options menu. [image]C:\Users\romul\Dropbox\Screenshots\Screenshot 2017-01-17 12.54.43[/image][image]C:\Users\romul\Dropbox\Screenshots\Screenshot 2017-01-17 12.54.43[/image]
My experience has been similar, there's less editing to do when exporting XML from Sonar to Sibelius, but greater accuracy and no missing elements when exporting via MIDI. So, I export from a type 1 .mid file. I've had XML import a file into Sibelius with missing notes. Jerry www.jerrygerber.com/mp3/Eighth%20Symphony%204th%20movement.mp3www.jerrygerber.com/intimetherewillbenotime.htm
post edited by jsg - 2017/01/18 13:18:52
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michael diemer
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Re: No notation fixes!
2017/02/09 22:25:35
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☄ Helpfulby Kamikaze 2017/02/09 22:56:06
Thought I'd drop by for a quick timeout from Reaper. From the time of my last post in this thread, Reaper's notation has continued to improve. It is far, far beyond Sonar's. Remember, it is still less than a year old. Every new version of Reaper has more improvements.
Cakewalk, you have no excuses anymore. It is not too hard to improve your staff view. Reaper did it from scratch in a few months. Do they have better developers than Cakewalk? Or do they just listen to ALL of their users, and respond effectively?
I hope for the sake of staff view users that Cakewalk finally decides to do something about this. I just couldn't wait any longer. It's so refreshing to use a DAW where the devs care about all of their users.
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Anderton
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Re: No notation fixes!
2017/02/10 01:47:20
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As far michael diemer
Thought I'd drop by for a quick timeout from Reaper. From the time of my last post in this thread, Reaper's notation has continued to improve. It is far, far beyond Sonar's. Remember, it is still less than a year old. Every new version of Reaper has more improvements. Last time I looked, every month SONAR has more improvements. Cakewalk, you have no excuses anymore. It is not too hard to improve your staff view. Reaper did it from scratch in a few months. I never knew Cockos invented the Lua scripting language "from scratch in a few months." I also didn't realize you knew when work started on adding notation. Back in 2012, Justin Frankel estimated Cockos had already put 28,000 hours of development into Reaper. Don't discount the hard work that programmers like Frankel and his team do. Unless you actually know how much effort they put into adding a staff view, and that it was in fact minimal, I think it's presumptuous to minimize their efforts as being "not too hard." Do they have better developers than Cakewalk? Or do they just listen to ALL of their users, and respond effectively? Rhetorical question (noun): a question asked in order to create a dramatic effect or to make a point rather than to get an answer. You said it is "not too hard to improve your staff view." Perhaps you meant to say it is "not too hard" to incorporate a scripting language that has been around for over a decade from scratch rather than try to integrate it into ancient code, or "not too hard" to try and excise that ancient code - which also interacts with MIDI all over the place - and replace it with something new without causing a tremendous disturbance to the core software. Or maybe it's "not too hard" to be bankrolled by selling WinAmp for $500 million. Note that Cockos even says that its stated goal is "to develop software sustainably while preventing profit rationale from forcing engineering compromises." Well, when you don't have to worry about making a profit to take care of messy details - like paying salaries, and paying for the servers, bandwidth, and maintenance that allow people to complain freely about the host's products while promoting another company's product - yes, that makes life easier. (Not having a profit motive about software is what also allows Apple to price Logic Pro X for $199, thus pulling the rug out from under Mac developers like MOTU that supported Apple through thick and thin. Hey, nothing personal...it's just business.) This isn't to take anything away from Cockos - quite the contrary. Justin Frankel didn't need to buy politicians or hire sleazeball lobbyists to get where he was, he made his money honestly by being smart. More power to him...and additional props for investing some of his money in a company to make music software instead of bombs, as well as taking that software seriously and committing to its ongoing development. He could have just lived on a beach somewhere and drank margaritas all day. I applaud him for making a contribution to the music industry. If it was "not too hard" to do a wonderful staff view, I'm sure Cakewalk would have done it if for no other reason than to put this hoary thread out of its misery once and for all, as well as not to hear me talk any more about how it might help SONAR in the educational market (although that's now highly debatable, given the current trend for schools to jettison both Mac and Windows in favor of Chromebooks). It wouldn't have been to gain market share, as anyone who's studied this market already knows. I hope for the sake of staff view users that Cakewalk finally decides to do something about this. I just couldn't wait any longer. It's so refreshing to use a DAW where the devs care about all of their users. Well, clearly the Cockos devs don't care about all their users if they don't have Mix Recall, which is a crucial, time-saving feature for those who work in a professional capacity and have to produce multiple mixes and remixes for clients. And clearly, they don't care about all their users if they don't care about the improved, tangible sound quality that comes from upsampling particular virtual instruments and processors. And don't you still have to bridge Melodyne? Frankel was asked about ARA integration in 2012 and his answer about whether he would do it was "yes, if possible." As of late last year I still hadn't seen ARA integration, so AFAIK it can't do the cool Melodyne things SONAR and Studio One can do, like tempo extraction (if you record live music this is a godsend). Yet oddly enough, I don't see Studio One and SONAR people going to the Cockos forums and saying "It's been over four years since you talked about adding ARA. Do Cakewalk and PreSonus just have better developers? Or maybe it's just that they CARE about their users? It's not too hard to add ARA integration. Cakewalk even uses it for their Drum Replacer. Cockos, you have no excuses any more." If Cakewalk decides to prioritize staff view, well, that would be great for those who want staff view prioritized...and not great for those to whom staff view is not a priority. It's really that simple. Hopefully someday there will be the resources and time to take care of both. Meanwhile, people for whom staff view is a priority should choose a DAW whose developers and user base believe staff view should be a priority. People for whom EDM is a priority should choose a DAW whose developers and user base believe EDM should be a priority. People who need to do a wide variety of projects in multiple genres should choose a DAW whose developers and user base believe versatility should be a priority.
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Kev999
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Re: No notation fixes!
2017/02/10 02:26:56
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michael diemer
Cakewalk, you have no excuses anymore. It is not too hard to improve your staff view. Reaper did it from scratch in a few months.
Working from scratch, perhaps CW could create a new staff view in a few months. However it would not be backwards compatible with the existing staff view.
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tenfoot
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Re: No notation fixes!
2017/02/10 04:26:36
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michael diemer
Thought I'd drop by for a quick timeout from Reaper. From the time of my last post in this thread, Reaper's notation has continued to improve. It is far, far beyond Sonar's.
Uhhm...OK. Maybe I should drop by the reaper forum to talk about all of the cool things Sonar can do that reaper can't? No wait - that would make me look like a bumptious blow-hard:)
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: No notation fixes!
2017/02/10 06:33:36
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Kev999
michael diemer
Cakewalk, you have no excuses anymore. It is not too hard to improve your staff view. Reaper did it from scratch in a few months.
Working from scratch, perhaps CW could create a new staff view in a few months. However it would not be backwards compatible with the existing staff view.
Exactly the point I was going to make Kev Working from scratch when there are no predetermined dependencies should be a piece of cake. The problem grows exponentially when you have an existing feature which has hooks & claws into all other aspects of the program.
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pwalpwal
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Re: No notation fixes!
2017/02/10 07:30:38
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why not just run reaper as a rewire client in sonar? then you have a $50 solution for staff view (and whatever else reaper does that sonar doesn't)
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mettelus
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Re: No notation fixes!
2017/02/10 10:20:42
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Carrying forward legacy code for decades can become a liability on several levels. My hunch was the OSX alpha was also an effort to review this code in detail, but turned out to be more than anticipated. It is also common to find architecture that is assembled on the fly more often than not these days. The "from scratch" can sometimes be most effective, but is oftentimes not the cheapest (by a long shot).
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pwalpwal
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Re: No notation fixes!
2017/02/10 10:28:32
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mettelus
Carrying forward legacy code for decades can become a liability on several levels. My hunch was the OSX alpha was also an effort to review this code in detail, but turned out to be more than anticipated. It is also common to find architecture that is assembled on the fly more often than not these days. The "from scratch" can sometimes be most effective, but is oftentimes not the cheapest (by a long shot).
agree, except with the last comment about not being cheapest, that's just a non-technical management decision... it's almost impossible to declare a rebuild in today's commercial software dev (thanks agile!)
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Sidroe
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Re: No notation fixes!
2017/02/10 13:10:34
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As I was the OP of this 'vampiresh' file, I felt obligated to check out what is going on in here. I would like to go on record by saying we all should understand that it has already been stated by the bakers that it will be almost an impossibility to update the staff view feature. It is ancient code written by a developer that is long gone. The code is so deeply integrated in to Sonar that they would risk implosion of a by now pretty stable and viable DAW.
If it is that important to have notation on a professional level, just bite the bullet and invest in a pro level notation program. I have said all along how wonderful it would be for Staff View to be improved but at some point all evidence says otherwise. This will not stop me from believing in and continuing to use what has been my favorite DAW since Pro Audio 9. I hate to see my old thread get the wooden stake thru the heart but it has outgrown it's usefulness. It has become just a place to slam and backbite the bakers or someone elses product. Face it, if you need notation that badly, look elsewhere. No one ever said we couldn't use Sonar in combination with other products. That's not such a bad thing. IMO!
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Elffin
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Re: No notation fixes!
2017/02/10 14:01:31
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☄ Helpfulby Kamikaze 2017/02/10 22:22:46
Wouldnt hurt to place the note duration icons back... as requested and stated before in numerous threads.
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michael diemer
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Re: No notation fixes!
2017/02/10 16:00:02
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Folks, I'm doing you a favor here. Reaper is fast becoming the most versatile DAW on the planet. Now they are working on a Linux Native Edition. I don't know whether they can pull that off, as getting VST's to work in Linux is notoriously difficult, but I wouldn't bet against them. Cakewalk should at least be trying to keep up. I get it that Mr. Frankl is filthy rich and can do what he wants without worrying about profit. And yet, that philosophy has rocketed Reaper to being one of the leading DAWs out there (I recently saw somewhere that they were number two).
I still use Sonar (used it last night), so I have every right to compare Sonar and Reaper, and if that makes me a bumptious blowhard, so be it (by the way, nice alliteration).
I won't even try to answer The Craig's points, he will annihilate me with his grasp of market forces, the history of music software, etc. His points are all well taken and completely valid. And yes, I was using rhetorical language, because I wanted to make a point. I used and loved Sonar since the late 90's. Tried other DAWS, but kept coming back. Finally, the streamlined efficiency of Reaper, and their willingness to always break new ground, sold me. They are getting close to the Holy Grail of music creation software, namely the seamless integration of notation and DAW. I still use Notion for dedicated score work, but I have a feeling that it won't be long before I can do it all in Reaper. I know that Cakewalk at this point is not going to match what Cockos has done with notation, but it would still be a good idea to upgrade their staff view, if only to prevent further defections. So guys, you can be defensive, call me names, whatever. But as I said, I'm really doing you a favor by giving my honest opinion, based on using both programs. Dismiss it if you want, but why not use it as learning experience?
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
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riojazz
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Re: No notation fixes!
2017/02/10 16:25:47
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I've tried to keep up with what all the dedicated music notation programs offer, an ever more difficult task. Likewise, every time there are threads like this it makes me want to demo other DAW software. Music notation is critical to me, and it is critical to some other users here, and likely to others no longer here.
I don't know where it was ever determined accurately that SONAR users would rather Cakewalk put effort into other features over staff view. And even if you concede that (which I don't), I still believe notation is critical in the decisions schools and colleges make when outfitting music labs, making it critical for Cakewalk's marketing of SONAR.
Inertia is strong to remain with the software you know. Perhaps that's why I'm still with SONAR after a decade of disappointment in staff view.
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chuckebaby
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Re: No notation fixes!
2017/02/10 16:27:52
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michael diemer
Folks, I'm doing you a favor here. Reaper is fast becoming the most versatile DAW on the planet. Now they are working on a Linux Native Edition. I don't know whether they can pull that off, as getting VST's to work in Linux is notoriously difficult, but I wouldn't bet against them. Cakewalk should at least be trying to keep up. I get it that Mr. Frankl is filthy rich and can do what he wants without worrying about profit. And yet, that philosophy has rocketed Reaper to being one of the leading DAWs out there (I recently saw somewhere that they were number two).
I still use Sonar (used it last night), so I have every right to compare Sonar and Reaper, and if that makes me a bumptious blowhard, so be it (by the way, nice alliteration).
I won't even try to answer The Craig's points, he will annihilate me with his grasp of market forces, the history of music software, etc. His points are all well taken and completely valid. And yes, I was using rhetorical language, because I wanted to make a point. I used and loved Sonar since the late 90's. Tried other DAWS, but kept coming back. Finally, the streamlined efficiency of Reaper, and their willingness to always break new ground, sold me. They are getting close to the Holy Grail of music creation software, namely the seamless integration of notation and DAW. I still use Notion for dedicated score work, but I have a feeling that it won't be long before I can do it all in Reaper. I know that Cakewalk at this point is not going to match what Cockos has done with notation, but it would still be a good idea to upgrade their staff view, if only to prevent further defections. So guys, you can be defensive, call me names, whatever. But as I said, I'm really doing you a favor by giving my honest opinion, based on using both programs. Dismiss it if you want, but why not use it as learning experience?
how would you be doing "us" a favor ? What might be good for you isn't for everyone else. I've tried Reaper plenty of times and my band mate uses it. but it cant do what I want it to when it comes to doing things right in the box. matter of fact there are many areas at which reaper lacks where sonar excels. unless your talking about ease of stretching audio, then yes I prefer reaper for that. But this thread is about notation and if your serious about notation then use a notation editor. you really think investing in reaper for notation is worth it ? if you said Cubase or logic I might have agreed but sorry cant say I would invest in reaper simply for its notation features (hoping someday they add more to it) you would be in the same boat as you are here with sonar.
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Sidroe
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Re: No notation fixes!
2017/02/10 19:36:35
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I began my musical meanderings at a very early age with classical piano training. That said, notation is extremely important to me. On the other hand, very few musicians in my area know what they're even looking at when you put a piece of sheet music in front of them. That on top of the fact that DAWs have made learning a musical instrument unnecessary has really taken the importance of actually reading and writing music on paper to a record low!!!!
That being said, I, too, miss the note value window. I am happy ReWiring Notion and Sonar when needed. It would be more convenient if the Staff View worked but it doesn't and probably never will.
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tenfoot
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Re: No notation fixes!
2017/02/10 20:02:59
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michael diemer
Folks, I'm doing you a favor here. Reaper is fast becoming the most versatile DAW on the planet. But as I said, I'm really doing you a favor by giving my honest opinion, based on using both programs. Dismiss it if you want, but why not use it as learning experience?
I gave reaper a try some time ago, and in fact went back to their site after reading your post. The deal breaker for me is no playlist feature for live performance. In fact, Sonar is still the only DAW that has a fully functional playlist feature that allows for the loading of multiple multi track backing projects on the fly (Abelton Live has many live performance features, but still lacks this). After all these years I am still surprised Cakewalk don't me a bigger deal of ths feature. In the days of DOS, Cakewalk actually had a stand alone player (Cakelive for DOS) that was no doubt the predecessor of this feature.
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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kitekrazy1
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Re: No notation fixes!
2017/02/10 20:15:10
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michael diemer
Folks, I'm doing you a favor here. Reaper is fast becoming the most versatile DAW on the planet. Now they are working on a Linux Native Edition. I don't know whether they can pull that off, as getting VST's to work in Linux is notoriously difficult, but I wouldn't bet against them. Cakewalk should at least be trying to keep up. I get it that Mr. Frankl is filthy rich and can do what he wants without worrying about profit. And yet, that philosophy has rocketed Reaper to being one of the leading DAWs out there (I recently saw somewhere that they were number two).
http://vi-control.net/community/threads/who-is-using-reaper-for-film-scoring.59532/ I thought that was an interesting thread since some are thinking of going with Reaper while dumping Cubase.
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The Grim 
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Re: No notation fixes!
2017/02/10 21:11:13
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chuckebaby
notation features (hoping someday they add more to it) you would be in the same boat as you are here with sonar.
i would disagree, the 'boats' are completely different, for all intents and purposes cakewalks/sonars notation is dead in the water, on the other hand reapers is alive and vibrant, being actively and vigorously improved upon and added to, big difference. as to not being able to do something in reaper that you can in sonar, i would say one should not be to quick to judge until one has learned how to use reaper, which on the surface may be not as easy as other daws, and therein lies a big part of the problem imo. now reaper isn't my main daw, neither is sonar, but from my experience, reaper is one of the most powerful daws around, if not the most powerful, ( certainly configurable) and capable of doing pretty much anything. if i had to choose between sonar and reaper today, i would choose sonar, but if reaper fixed up it's issues with menus, gui, ease of use perhaps etc, bringing it into line with other daws in that area, to the point where it is no longer refered to as ' the linux of the daw world', then my choice between sonar and reaper would be reaper without a second thought. just my opinion and how i see it oh, and i couldn't care less about notation/staff view etc, if it disappeared tomorrow it would be no skin off my nose, but it would be good if it were there for those who want it, and most likely benefit cakewalk/sonar to boot
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chuckebaby
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Re: No notation fixes!
2017/02/10 23:34:25
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Sidroe
I began my musical meanderings at a very early age with classical piano training. That said, notation is extremely important to me. On the other hand, very few musicians in my area know what they're even looking at when you put a piece of sheet music in front of them. That on top of the fact that DAWs have made learning a musical instrument unnecessary has really taken the importance of actually reading and writing music on paper to a record low!!!!
That being said, I, too, miss the note value window. I am happy ReWiring Notion and Sonar when needed. It would be more convenient if the Staff View worked but it doesn't and probably never will.
I respect this. I am from the old school as well. where I did learn to read and write music from an early age. But I simply found an easier way to do it using the piano roll view. with the way I work, its just faster.. but hey, im not everyone so I can understand where your coming from. I felt a similar way when samples because a songwriters main instrument. I don't use samples to write my music. I play stringed instruments and write out all my synths, drum parts, piano parts by free hand in notation or in the PRV. I hear a song built with samples and I feel like someone took the easy road. However, this is simply a change in the times. things are changing and as much as I hate to admit it, notation isn't the preferred method anymore and you know what is ? Painting by numbers in the PRV  . It is sad but like I said, its the change in times and we either adapt to it...or be consumed by it. Here's hoping they throw at least a bone to the hard core SV users. Best, Chuck
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chuckebaby
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Re: No notation fixes!
2017/02/10 23:41:47
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The Grim
chuckebaby
notation features (hoping someday they add more to it) you would be in the same boat as you are here with sonar.
as to not being able to do something in reaper that you can in sonar, i would say one should not be to quick to judge
ARA integration: Audio random access Reaper doesn't have it and it is a gift to have it at your fingertips. If you have ever used Melodyne in another DAW you know exactly what I mean.
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The Grim
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Re: No notation fixes!
2017/02/11 00:09:03
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sonar doesn't have ripple editing, reaper has had it for years . . . so what? i use studio one, i find it's ara integration to be superior . . . so what? all this is by the by you can still do what you want, it may take different paths, i never found anything i wanted to do in reaper that i couldn't accomplish, and it maybe what is considered a 'workaround', but one can't sneer at work around's especially sonar users  here is what i originally wrote for the above post, but decided not to post, it's not meant to be inflammatory or anything, and no disrespect to your good self, just how i see it. chuckebaby
notation features (hoping someday they add more to it) you would be in the same boat as you are here with sonar.
i would disagree, the 'boats' are completely different, for all intents and purposes cakewalks/sonars notation is dead in the water, on the other hand reapers is alive and vibrant, being actively and vigorously improved upon and added to, big difference.
as to your issue with not being able to do certain things in reaper, well in my experience that may not be down to reaper not being able to do it, but you not knowing how to achieve it in reaper. sure there maybe things, (just examples) you may say drum replacement, mix recall etc. but all these things can be done in reaper, you may need a plugin (essentially drum replacer is a plugin built into sonar, perhaps not literally, but ykwim) mix recall (i tried mix recall way back, to me it's next to useless because it is just to slow, among other things, if it were hit the button/done, then ok, but for me i'll do it another way if need be), well there are ways you can achieve the same thing in reaper or almost any other daw, sure it would be via a 'workaround', but you can't go poo pooing something for being a workaround (not that you are, just speaking generally), especially being a sonar user with the myriad of workarounds required within sonar to make things work that should work but don't, lets face there are many, and look at the fridays tip of the week thread for examples of 'workarounds' for sonar to achieve things it can't otherwise, that other daw's can.
reaper is not my main daw, neither is sonar, but from my experience reaper is one of the most powerful daw's around, if not the most powerful, it's just that stuff may not be immediately obvious to the user, as it were, or as it may be perceived, hidden away in some menu or some dusty corner etc, which in itself may rightly be considered a failing, but then again look at how many times people are told here that they should learn how to use sonar correctly, well same thing there, fair is fair. but don't make the mistake of underestimating reapers power.
i don't care about who makes what daw, am not emotionally attached to a daw, or a company, or a forum, i don't owe any daw or company anything, they owe me nothing except for giving me what i payed for, if another daw pops up tomorrow which rings my bell more than what i currently use i'm there. switching daw's for the most part is a breeze, you are up and running immediately, somethings you may need to lookup, learn as you go, but it doesn't take long. lifes to short to be stuck with something second rate
on the topic of notation, and to go with the ' boat' analogy, sonars notation/staff view is like a ship adrift on the dead sea, floating around listlessly, surrounded by pyramids and ancient civilizations, as apposed to reapers which is sailing full speed ahead across the atlantic to the brave new world
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mudgel
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Re: No notation fixes!
2017/02/11 03:28:04
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The Grim
sonar doesn't have ripple editing, reaper has had it for years . . . so what?
i use studio one, i find it's ara integration to be superior . . . so what?
all this is by the by
you can still do what you want, it may take different paths, i never found anything i wanted to do in reaper that i couldn't accomplish, and it maybe what is considered a 'workaround', but one can't sneer at work around's especially sonar users
here is what i originally wrote for the above post, but decided not to post, it's not meant to be inflammatory or anything, and no disrespect to your good self, just how i see it.
chuckebaby
notation features (hoping someday they add more to it) you would be in the same boat as you are here with sonar.
i would disagree, the 'boats' are completely different, for all intents and purposes cakewalks/sonars notation is dead in the water, on the other hand reapers is alive and vibrant, being actively and vigorously improved upon and added to, big difference.
as to your issue with not being able to do certain things in reaper, well in my experience that may not be down to reaper not being able to do it, but you not knowing how to achieve it in reaper. sure there maybe things, (just examples) you may say drum replacement, mix recall etc. but all these things can be done in reaper, you may need a plugin (essentially drum replacer is a plugin built into sonar, perhaps not literally, but ykwim) mix recall (i tried mix recall way back, to me it's next to useless because it is just to slow, among other things, if it were hit the button/done, then ok, but for me i'll do it another way if need be), well there are ways you can achieve the same thing in reaper or almost any other daw, sure it would be via a 'workaround', but you can't go poo pooing something for being a workaround (not that you are, just speaking generally), especially being a sonar user with the myriad of workarounds required within sonar to make things work that should work but don't, lets face there are many, and look at the fridays tip of the week thread for examples of 'workarounds' for sonar to achieve things it can't otherwise, that other daw's can.
reaper is not my main daw, neither is sonar, but from my experience reaper is one of the most powerful daw's around, if not the most powerful, it's just that stuff may not be immediately obvious to the user, as it were, or as it may be perceived, hidden away in some menu or some dusty corner etc, which in itself may rightly be considered a failing, but then again look at how many times people are told here that they should learn how to use sonar correctly, well same thing there, fair is fair. but don't make the mistake of underestimating reapers power.
i don't care about who makes what daw, am not emotionally attached to a daw, or a company, or a forum, i don't owe any daw or company anything, they owe me nothing except for giving me what i payed for, if another daw pops up tomorrow which rings my bell more than what i currently use i'm there. switching daw's for the most part is a breeze, you are up and running immediately, somethings you may need to lookup, learn as you go, but it doesn't take long. lifes to short to be stuck with something second rate
on the topic of notation, and to go with the 'boat' analogy, sonars notation/staff view is like a ship adrift on the dead sea, floating around listlessly, surrounded by pyramids and ancient civilizations, as apposed to reapers which is sailing full speed ahead across the atlantic to the brave new world
So why is it you are here?
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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