michael diemer
Folks, I'm doing you a favor here...

Always be wary of people doing you an unasked for favour... but at least it saved me from having to read the rest of the post.
 
My boat's in dry dock having barnacles scraped off the hull.

Wibbles

michael diemer
Folks, I'm doing you a favor here...

Always be wary of people doing you an unasked for favour... but at least it saved me from having to read the rest of the post.
 
My boat's in dry dock having barnacles scraped off the hull.

Man overboard!

chuckebaby

The Grim
sonar doesn't have ripple editing, reaper has had it for years . . . so what?
 
i use studio one, i find it's ara integration to be superior . . . so what?
 
all this is by the by
 
you can still do what you want, it may take different paths, i never found anything i wanted to do in reaper that i couldn't accomplish, and it maybe what is considered a 'workaround', but one can't sneer at work around's especially sonar users
 
here is what i originally wrote for the above post, but decided not to post, it's not meant to be inflammatory or anything, and no disrespect to your good self, just how i see it.
 

chuckebaby


notation features (hoping someday they add more to it) you would be in the same boat as you are here with sonar.

i would disagree, the 'boats' are completely different, for all intents and purposes cakewalks/sonars notation is dead in the water, on the other hand reapers is alive and vibrant, being actively and vigorously improved upon and added to, big difference.


as to your issue with not being able to do certain things in reaper, well in my experience that may not be down to reaper not being able to do it, but you not knowing how to achieve it in reaper. sure there maybe things, (just examples) you may say drum replacement, mix recall etc. but all these things can be done in reaper, you may need a plugin (essentially drum replacer is a plugin built into sonar, perhaps not literally, but ykwim) mix recall (i tried mix recall way back, to me it's next to useless because it is just to slow, among other things, if it were hit the button/done, then ok, but for me i'll do it another way if need be), well there are ways you can achieve the same thing in reaper or almost any other daw, sure it would be via a 'workaround', but you can't go poo pooing something for being a workaround (not that you are, just speaking generally), especially being a sonar user with the myriad of workarounds required within sonar to make things work that should work but don't, lets face there are many, and look at the fridays tip of the week thread for examples of 'workarounds' for sonar to achieve things it can't otherwise, that other daw's can.


reaper is not my main daw, neither is sonar, but from my experience reaper is one of the most powerful daw's around, if not the most powerful, it's just that stuff may not be immediately obvious to the user, as it were, or as it may be perceived, hidden away in some menu or some dusty corner etc, which in itself may rightly be considered a failing, but then again look at how many times people are told here that they should learn how to use sonar correctly, well same thing there, fair is fair. but don't make the mistake of underestimating reapers power.


i don't care about who makes what daw, am not emotionally attached to a daw, or a company, or a forum, i don't owe any daw or company anything, they owe me nothing except for giving me what i payed for, if another daw pops up tomorrow which rings my bell more than what i currently use i'm there. switching daw's for the most part is a breeze, you are up and running immediately, somethings you may need to lookup, learn as you go, but it doesn't take long. lifes to short to be stuck with something second rate
 
 

on the topic of notation, and to go with the 'boat' analogy, sonars notation/staff view is like a ship adrift on the dead sea, floating around listlessly, surrounded by pyramids and ancient civilizations, as apposed to reapers which is sailing full speed ahead across the atlantic to the brave new world 

im going to bow out of this thread now and its not because I don't have a reply, but more.. this thread was never about Reaper. I feel partially to blame for replying. Which is now getting away from the original topic (Staff view). In the past I have been unsympathetic towards SV users but in recent, I respect their way of working just like every man/women works.


My personal opinion, reaper cant do what I want it to do (again, my personal opinion) and if it could.. I would be on their forum right now.

What can't Reaper do that you want it to do?

InstrEd
 
Why is it so hard for people to see this. I don't want Sonar to become Finale.That is why I have Finale.
I just need it to be able to
display the staff view properly.

 
One of the reasons these threads go on forever is that we have to keep repeating that simple point. 
 
What Sonar really needs is another 64bit vintage tube analog modeled warming classic VCA compressor with presets from some DJ with a catchy name.
 
 

chuckebaby

jsg

chuckebaby
im going to bow out of this thread now and its not because I don't have a reply, but more.. this thread was never about Reaper. I feel partially to blame for replying. Which is now getting away from the original topic (Staff view). In the past I have been unsympathetic towards SV users but in recent, I respect their way of working just like every man/women works.
 
My personal opinion, reaper cant do what I want it to do (again, my personal opinion) and if it could.. I would be on their forum right now.

What can't Reaper do that you want it to do?

Are you serious ? Did you not read my last comment (The one you just quoted) ?
 
I thought I was polite and sincere in my last comment. Saying "I am bowing out of this thread"
Out of respect to the OP and staff View users" its not fair to them that I (or you) drag this thread down by the changing topic to DAW preference.
 
Its called "High jacking someone else's thread".

Sorry, no offense meant, I didn't read your entire post.  But I just did read it in its entirety and I still don't see what Reaper cannot do that you want it to.  Replying would be very helpful to me as I am considering dumping Sonar and learning Reaper now that it has notation...
 
Sincerely,
Jerry
 

jsg

chuckebaby

jsg

chuckebaby
im going to bow out of this thread now and its not because I don't have a reply, but more.. this thread was never about Reaper. I feel partially to blame for replying. Which is now getting away from the original topic (Staff view). In the past I have been unsympathetic towards SV users but in recent, I respect their way of working just like every man/women works.
 
My personal opinion, reaper cant do what I want it to do (again, my personal opinion) and if it could.. I would be on their forum right now.

What can't Reaper do that you want it to do?

Are you serious ? Did you not read my last comment (The one you just quoted) ?
 
I thought I was polite and sincere in my last comment. Saying "I am bowing out of this thread"
Out of respect to the OP and staff View users" its not fair to them that I (or you) drag this thread down by the changing topic to DAW preference.
 
Its called "High jacking someone else's thread".

Sorry, no offense meant, I didn't read your entire post.  But I just did read it in its entirety and I still don't see what Reaper cannot do that you want it to.  Replying would be very helpful to me as I am considering dumping Sonar and learning Reaper now that it has notation...
 
Sincerely,
Jerry
 

No offense taken. My apology's if I came off as snippety in my last comment.

Can you imagine a word processing program that didn't have a spell checker?  You can still use it but everyone else has a built in dictionary.  I'm sure some car mechanics have a great supply of wrenches but they don't have any screwdrivers.  It is possible to create a great novel, even if you can't read or write.  Crappy staff view in a music program negates how we musicians communicate with each other and do our work.
 

trtzbass
Well, I suppose the reason we keep on knocking on that door is because Cakewalk actively keeps on asking for our feedback, so here we are! It's important to (many) of us and it's long overdue IMHO
 
To be super fair I have to say this. NO new DAWs offer score writing. I do understand that the new generation's way of writing music doesn't involve weird dots on a bunch if lines and that's all good and nice; by the same token, people might buy Sonar also because it offers score editing (I know I did) not knowing it's badly implemented (I know I didn't). It doesn't matter how much googling you do beforehand; you look at the program as a whole then think "I can live with that, I'll find a way" but the score editor is so rudimental I couldn't possibly have imagined it was so awkward to use.
It's not like I am (we are?) asking to implement a new function. I don't think it's unfair to ask for an already present feature to be developed so that it can be usable! Personally I just need something usable so I can have a quick workflow when I sketch out pop string arrangements. I don't think that's too much to ask, no?
Yes, Reaper got it right, no I'd rather use Sonar
 
Otherwise just kill the score editor altogether so you'll have a couple months' worth of moaners, instead of this neverending stream of complaint.
 
Just my opinion, of course

This is a very good comment. I can respect that. you hit on a lot of good points.
I think this generation seems to want the easiest possible way to do things  (and sometimes not always the smartest way). I do 100% of my midi work in the Piano Roll view. And this is stickily the way I work.
If Cakewalk (in 10 years from now) were to stop supporting or not keeping up on Piano Roll View updates, bugs. exc.. I would feel bothered by this.
 
Even as a little as a year ago, I would read the complaints of Staff view users and scratch my head.
Why, why would you hang on to an outdated feature when newer ways to work are at your hands reach ?
but I learned, that's not for me to judge how others work. It would be the same if Cakewalk let PRV lay to waste, I would be saying, "Hey.. I bought this product for the PRV". So I can respect where you and others are coming from.
 
With all this out and said... I have never let technology leave me behind. Not with Windows OS', Software, Even outboard gear. If some new editing feature was to arise from technology, I would learn it and try my best to master it because there is nothing worse than changes and not being prepared for those changes.
 
I admire your comment, I admire your attitude. you have a good sense of reality, looking at it from both sides.
As I said before, "Here's hoping Cakewalk throws you guys a bone and makes some fixes to SV.
 
 
 

Brett
Another reason these threads go on forever is argumentative people who don't realise when you're agreeing with them.

Well, it doesn't hurt to keep an important subject in the consciousness.
 
Ultimately the reason these discussions continue is because the company hasn't addresses anything in this area. The company has not provided any fixes for ages-old problems, nor has it given any indication of a road map ahead.

I've never expected Staff View to be a full featured aspect of Sonar.
 
All I have ever want to do in Staff View is enter notation and print out something to hand to vocalists who will be singing over the track I've created in Sonar.

Unfortunately, with the X versions and eventually Platinum, they completely changed the look of Staff view, removed keyboard shortcuts, and hid settings. I can't even get a quarter note to land directly on a quarter note, because evidently setting "Snap" to "to" and choosing 1/4 is not where you're supposed to set that option. I have to enter my notes, then quantize it as if it were a live performance before I can get the note where I want them to be. It's a tedious issue and for no good reason that I can see. 

I'd be happy if Cakewalk would simply revert Staff View to what it was in Sonar 8.5. 

UPDATE: I was just informed by another user that the ability to snap notes to any sort of grid other than 32nd notes was broken in X2 and has yet to be fixed. On top of that, I also found out today that Cakewalk has become so popular they can't handle support calls any more...at least, "no appointments were available" when I tried to contact them. 

It's a far cry from the quality of service Cakewalk used to provide, I'm sad to say. I can remember having an issue some years ago with functionality around the time it switched from being branded as Cakewalk and became Sonar. Not only was I able to talk to an actual human being, I received a patch to fix it THAT SAME NIGHT. 

Anderton
I need to re-emphasize that SV is not a forgotten or dead topic at Cakewalk. There are frequent discussions as to how best address this issue, with the main problems being that any potential solutions (including doing only a makeover of the existing SV) are a) mutually exclusive, b) have unique drawbacks that are difficult to circumvent, and c) Cakewalk cannot afford to make an expensive mistake, so any options have to be studied exhaustively. It's sometimes better to do nothing than do something wrong.
 
To give you an idea of how undead this topic is, today I was updated on a potential solution that I stumbled upon last summer and passed along to CW for consideration. That doesn't mean a solution is closer or further away. But it seems many people believe Cakewalk doesn't care and isn't actively pursuing a solution. That speculation has no basis in reality.
 

I realize I'm coming late to the discussion, but why did Cakewalk make a deliberate decision to break Staff View in the first place?

It's never been elegant, but at least what was there used to work. I'm not even talking about reassigning long-established shortcuts to do something else. That's annoying enough, but I'm just talking about just clicking on the screen and having notes appear where I place them.

I have Finale, but I still find Staff View in Sonar 8.5 to be the fastest way to get notes on the screen short of playing them and recording the MIDI data live. Staff View in Platinum, by comparison, is pretty much useless. 

skinnybones lampshade

Anderton
I need to re-emphasize that SV is not a forgotten or dead topic at Cakewalk. There are frequent discussions as to how best address this issue, with the main problems being that any potential solutions (including doing only a makeover of the existing SV) are a) mutually exclusive, b) have unique drawbacks that are difficult to circumvent, and c) Cakewalk cannot afford to make an expensive mistake, so any options have to be studied exhaustively. It's sometimes better to do nothing than do something wrong.
 
To give you an idea of how undead this topic is, today I was updated on a potential solution that I stumbled upon last summer and passed along to CW for consideration. That doesn't mean a solution is closer or further away. But it seems many people believe Cakewalk doesn't care and isn't actively pursuing a solution. That speculation has no basis in reality.
 

Thank you for telling us that, Craig. That's very reassuring and does seem to offer real hope! 

+1