ORIGINAL: Joe Bravo

"in Detroit there are, and have been for over 10 years, 3 full time heavy metal/hard rock stations."

And they would be?

Here's a listing of every radio station in Detroit:

blah
blah
blah
blah
blah
blah
blah
blah
blah
blah

I don't see heavy metal listed in there. But wait, look, four jazz stations! Hooray for Detroit!

YES! Because a list of existing radio stations is direct correlation to exposure and play. And radio exposure in turn indicates sales, right? And then those sales must in their own way prove that there is just no studio work available for those not receiving said radio play, right?

Smoke, rear orifice, you know the deal Joe.

Currently the top radio stations in the boston market WAAF and WBCN. Both are rock format. Both currently have metal programming. Granted, one station does only one hour per night, while the other has a two hour show once a week.

Meanwhile, neither station plays any Jazz. There IS a local jazz station. It's listenership is a mere fraction of either of those top two rock stations.

C'mon Joe. You told me not to go there when I mentioned numbers. Let's hear it! Substantiate your claims. I'd love to see some soundscans, myspace hits, radio playlist from top 5 networks, or any billboard top 100 lists that in ANY way prove your statements.

No no no. There most definitely IS a wrong here, and Joe should really own up to it. I love jazz, and would never pit metal against jazz in a "Who's Better" battle.

However, to come out and say that if you're playing a "fad" style like metal, you'll never be able to gain employment as a session studio musician?

Bullpoopy, and I've already given more than enough examples as proof.

As off topic and tangential as this whole thing has gotten, I just can't allow for someone to make a statement like that undisputed. This kid posted a legitimate question asking for advice. To willfully misinform this kid just because Joe has some foolish issues with metal, or hip hop, or pop, is just wrong. For all we know, the kid plays metal.

ORIGINAL: ArrowHead

No no no. There most definitely IS a wrong here, and Joe should really own up to it. I love jazz, and would never pit metal against jazz in a "Who's Better" battle.

However, to come out and say that if you're playing a "fad" style like metal, you'll never be able to gain employment as a session studio musician?

Bullpoopy, and I've already given more than enough examples as proof.

As off topic and tangential as this whole thing has gotten, I just can't allow for someone to make a statement like that undisputed. This kid posted a legitimate question asking for advice. To willfully misinform this kid just because Joe has some foolish issues with metal, or hip hop, or pop, is just wrong. For all we know, the kid plays metal.

We will never get it out of him, but in reality a session player needs to be schooled in all types of music doesn't he? And yes those radio stations he posted sounded like Penuts (Charlie Brown) parents, because 4 of those play metal, and 2 of them play only Hard Rock/Metal.

I guess if we go by what we all hear the most of, then the most popular music of all history is probably a certain type of easy listening pop music made over the last couple of decades that dominates the Muzak world. You all know the type. We hear it every day in the grocery store and the department store and while on hold and so forth. Once in a while they slip in something a little newer as long as it's pretty tame, like Jewel or something. Probably more people hear that stuff on a given day (even if they don't actualy hear it, since it's just audio wall paper), than any other kind of music.

I used to be in a bar rock band in the early 80's (the Bad Boyz, yeh I know it was a ridiculous name.) Now I got to the grocery story and when they are in one of their more adventurous Muzak moods, I swear it's the Bad Boyz Channel half the time. Almost every song we did back then is now playing at the grocery store. John Mellencamp, Journey, that kind of stuff. Though it wasn't exactly radical music at the time even, it's kind of scary that it's become Muzak now.

just don't end up looking like this dood.

I guess that's why they used a frog in the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oADfmYQWmW8

Hmmm....lot's of interesting thoughts and advice so far. I agree with Kenny on looking for shades of gray. A couple of thoughts/questions that cross my mind as I read your initial question and others' responses.

• Does it have to be an "album"? Can you sell music through publishers or other channels? Have you done an podcasts? Have you promoted yourself in any way???
  
• You say that it is difficult to get a job in your area...and that you don't have education beyond high school...are you grateful for the work that you have??? Why do you see it as dull??? What would happen to your end of the day energy levels if you started to think of your work as "what can I do for others today" instead of "What is my job doing for me?", and if you took stops during the day to feel grateful for what you are experiencing, and what your job does for you (allowing you to buy SONAR, for example so that you can even record anything), you might have a LOT more energy at the end of the day.
  
• Do YOU believe that you are really good? What are your other beliefs around your self-value, money, the music business, work, your overall competency in the world??? I am not joking when I tell you that some serious examination around your beliefs and attitudes in these areas is perhaps the MOST important thing that you can do before making a decision regarding a choice that you are creating for yourself.
  
• I have noticed some limiting/cliche beliefs about work, the music business, etc., revealed in your initial communication...and in others' notes as well. For every one of those generalized beliefs, I can give you an exception that shows that these beliefs are true only for those that believe them, but if you examined the life of that exception you would also find in the center of it a person of exceptional focus, resilience, and extraordinary ability to hold beliefs and personal vision in the face of even overwhelming influence to the contrary of their chosen direction. Do you count yourself as a person such as this??? I believe that EVERYONE has the potential to become one, but are you that person now??? I would never make a major life leap without ensuring that all my beliefs and attitudes in complete alignment with my direction.
  
• If you were the type of person above...or if you were currently having music success...what would the feel like? Where would you live? How would you walk and talk and carry yourself? What choices would you make? Can you generate that kind of feeling...I mean in your BODY, not your head. If you can't feel that...if you can't FEEL close to that now, then it might be too big a leap to just leave your job and find success, and perhaps a more incremental approach is best....what CAN you "feel" like? What does it feel like to have your own place or sell two of your songs to a Disney or MTV or a syndicated reality show or something...or to win a songwriting contest???
  

Maybe a little heavy for some, but for those who have questioned in this way, they can perhaps relate???

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck!

Mark

ORIGINAL: Roflcopter

just don't end up looking like this dood.

I guess that's why they used a frog in the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oADfmYQWmW8

Ha... that was pretty good... after I found that pic I ended up on youtube watching old RJD clips. Man, that guy can sing some rock and roll (and not just in the studio)! Dood's 65 and he's still out there doing shows. It's crazy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnBecj2NFbo (he's old here, I think from last year)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ_FgL5l1og
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL1RguQL4jQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGj6Cj392Cc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwX8yF8k0ls

You can have your speed metal, and thrash metal, and post-industrial-suburban-goth-metal.... I'll take the old geezer that can still belt out a tune... oh, and some good ol' fashioned dragons and demons help too.

How anyone that little can have such a huge presence onstage is just a gift.

Having a Himalaya-class ego, and a voice to match usually does the trick - old, skinny, ugly, foreign accent - nothing stops them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzBncolQjP0

ORIGINAL: opaque slogan

ORIGINAL: jamesg1213

Interesting thread, and a lively discussion.....but where's the OP??

I imagine this thread started it's life on the Sonar forum. Since they no longer leave a link to the new location, in the place where it used to reside, i imagine the original poster assume's their thread was killed.

Why does stuff like this belong on the song forum and not the Sonar forum?
Sonar's a music program right?

I'm back! Yes, that's exactly what happend- after I posted my thread, I checked back a few hours later and didn't see it anywhere and figured they got rid of it and I didn't realize that it still existed until I received a PM today from a forum member regarding my thread. And I would like to thank all of you for your thoughts and advice- I asked for it and I definitely got a wide range of responses- from "Go for it- you'll look back when you're older and regret not trying wondering 'what if'" to "It's like winning the lottery- it's not likely so don't quit your day job" and everything in between. You all gave me a lot to think about.

But after reading what everyone had to say and the points people brought up, I have to say that posts #'s 6, 13, 14, 15 and 20 are the ones that really hit me and have helped me make my decision- they all come down to saying if you give it everything you've possibly got, then you can't go too wrong because there's nothing worse than the thought someday looking back wondering "what if". It made me realize that I would rather try and fail than not try at all.

That said, I've decided that in November, I am going to ask for a leave of absence from work so that I can focus completely on my music for a while (I have to wait till November because you can't request a leave of absence until you've been there for a year). That way I can "test the waters" so to speak- I can experience what it will be like to work on music day in, day out and find out if quitting work really is the answer. If I realize that the creativity is just great and I'm cranking out great stuff, then I'll have no problem making the decision to quit. But if I realize that not working really doesn't help me in terms of getting more done, then I'll still have a job waiting for me after my leave of absence. I think that sounds like a good plan myself! And as boring as my job is, I've also written some great songs at work because my job doesn't exactly require much thinking, so I can look at it this way- from now until November, I'm sure I'll come up with some more good lyrics while working, so that's one plus about that.

As far as being a risk taker, I pretty much always have been, but only after considering all of the possible consquences- which is why I wanted some opinions from all of you.

I've decided that no matter how slim my chances are, this is just something that I must do. It's a gut feeling that is with me almost every minute, telling me to follow my dream no matter what, and that is what I'm going to do...because anything is possible.

Thank you all again.

As the author of #15, I just want to jump in here and wish you good luck. The great thing about your decision is, it can't be wrong. Just make sure you give it everything you have. No half-assed effort. As a few people have mentioned, it would be nice to hear some of your stuff on this forum. It might be good for you too.

Randy

p.s. If you make it on tour, and your in N.Y. and need a place to stay, DON'T call me. I have found musicians to be of questionable character and low moral values. Best wishes.

I saw no reason to single out drummers.

Randy

ORIGINAL: Xfusion
...Lately, work has been killing my creativity and draining all of my energy and focus- I had been recording and working on my music at nights and on the weekend, but I've realized I just can't do it anymore. When I come home, my brain is fried and all I want to do is relax and rest and I keep putting my music off even though I really do want to work on it. And whenever I try to force myself to work on music, I get poor results because my mental energy is just gone...

This segment here is the nut of the dilemma and illustrates the exact reason that quitting your job *won't* make your musical life better.

Being a full-time musician is much harder than being a part-time one. Frankly if you were really as dedicated as you're telling yourself you are then you would be making music instead of complaining about how you're mentally drained. You have the same hours in the day as Einstein, Da Vinci, Bach, Coltrane, Mother Teresa had. This board has some 20,000 people most of whom do music as a hobby or whatever.

Think about this: you don't even have sufficient commitment to be a hobbyist. What are you going to blame when you have no job?

I am not trying to be cruel, here, but you are about to make a really big mistake. When I saw the title of this thread I figured someone had been confronted with a small contract or tour deal, or was making some little money doing music and wondering whether to risk life without health coverage or job security or whatever. My advice to that person would have been to go for it.

But you are not actually confronting a choice of whether to pursue music, you are trying to use your (lack of) dedication to music as an excuse to quit your job, and asking people here to validate it.

Go back to school, seriously. Consider therapy. You are on the fast track to depression if you quit your job now, because two months later you will have nothing musical to show for it, you will be embarrassed by that fact which will lead you to withdraw from friends and family, you will become that much more discouraged and tired...

Seriously, get help from people around you who know your situation better than we do. Listen to advice from smart people around you. Do not listen to the part of you that keeps telling you that it's your job's fault. That is not a voice that's leading you to a good place.

Cheers.

Putting in a long day at work can drain your creativity, but it doesn't have to be that way. Devote that time to working, not music. Don't try to mix those worlds. When you're done go home and focus anew on your art. Circumstances will always pose potential obstacles, it's your internal orientation toward them that matters.
Your life is out of balance, and taking a musical vacation isn't necessarily going to rectify that.
Just don't lose perspective. You probably will fall into a different rhythm, a more spontaneous, creative mode while on leave of absence, but that doesn't have much bearing on whether you can survive on music alone.
Going to extremes isn't the answer. You need to be centered.
Also, the notion that at 25 it's do or die time is simply ridiculous.

ORIGINAL: keith

ORIGINAL: Roflcopter

just don't end up looking like this dood.

I guess that's why they used a frog in the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oADfmYQWmW8

You can have your speed metal, and thrash metal, and post-industrial-suburban-goth-metal.... I'll take the old geezer that can still belt out a tune... oh, and some good ol' fashioned dragons and demons help too.

Me too. Rainbow and Sabbath frakin rules!!

Do you have the "Holy Diver Live," set? I have the CD and the video. It's effin awesome!

I'm writing a song that's a tribute to RJD right now... I'll tell you what inspired me, was the "Tenacious D" movie. Dude, you should watch that... if that doesn't inspire you to finish a song, I don't know what will.


BTW, does anyone here know if the "chart positions" of songs on SoundClick actually mean anything? How are they calculated? I mean, one or two of mine got in the top 10 recently in their subgenre- is this good, or does it mean nothing? Several user "radio stations" are playing a couple of my songs, but they're the special interest type (ie, Wiccan radio stations playing the songs I have that are specifically Wiccan in nature) so I don't put a whole lot of stock in that.

GG

PS-- If you are in a place where "it's really hard to get a job," my guess is that that place is not greater LA, New York, London or Nashville.

You should seriously get yourself enrolled in school in a city with an actual music industry. Getting out of your parent's house and being surrounded by other young and creative people will improve your energy a lot more than simply quitting your job will.

Really, a popular music "album" is ten 3~5 minute songs with a handful of chords and simple verse-chorus structures. If you can't finish some songs it's not a problem of the amount of hours in a day.

The best way to accomplish more is to get more inspired. The best way to get more inspired is to do MORE, not less.

Cheers.

I live very close to Nashville, and I can't find a job for s$#@t. But, I have a spotty work history...
Anyone else here live near Nashville? Wanna start a band?
I just want to rock, not necessarily make millions...
But the millions would be OK too. ;-)
GG