fep
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 12:50:18
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Several people have asked you to post some of your songs...
Please do, to get good advice it is critical to show people what you're producing now. I don't think anyone should give you advice without hearing your music.
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yep
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 12:59:30
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ORIGINAL: Gamergirl
...Do you have the "Holy Diver Live," set? I have the CD and the video. It's effin awesome!
I'm writing a song that's a tribute to RJD right now... I'll tell you what inspired me, was the "Tenacious D" movie. Dude, you should watch that... if that doesn't inspire you to finish a song, I don't know what will...
The most perfect image in the history of Rock music is the centerpiece from the "Beast of Dio" compilation where he's onstage in front of a big Demon statue holding a lightsaber up in the air. Not only is Dio totally awesome, but he's also totally earnest about what he does and never blows the joke.
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Joe Bravo
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 13:36:54
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ORIGINAL: droddey
Radio being what it is, a corporate endeavor, I wouldn't expect to find anything other than pretty tame stuff there for the most part, as your list above pretty much proves.
Uh, yeah, that was kind of the point. That metal doesn't sell like it did way back when for these guys who are living in the 80's.  If it did then there'd be a ton of radio stations playing it. Radio stations are simply looking to make money. If metal sold they'd be on it.
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Joe Bravo
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 13:39:37
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ORIGINAL: ArrowHead
Sorry, did I need to reiterate that Ozzfest is the top grossing tour for many years running now?
Or at some point, does Joe actually know how to admit he's wrong.
You really are brain damaged from that junk. At least the handicapped are fun to watch..... Oh and one measly festival hardly proves anything. If it did then bluegrass would be the king of radio and record sales judging by the attendance for the Walnut Valley Festival every year.
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Joe Bravo
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 13:42:41
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ORIGINAL: APC3
I guess though if you only want to listen to what the radio has to offer, than Joe wins, it's just too bad that everything has to have so many labels. I love when people, including myself use the word "alternative", how vague is that. Good luck with your career as a session player there Bravo.
You're the one who wanted to argue from a numbers perspective. You made a flase claam first off that Detroit had 3 or 4 stations dedicated to playing metal, and one playing jazz, when in fact the opposite is true as I have proven. And my career playing sessions is long behind me.
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Joe Bravo
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 14:06:05
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ORIGINAL: ArrowHead
Because a list of existing radio stations is direct correlation to exposure and play. And radio exposure in turn indicates sales, right? And then those sales must in their own way prove that there is just no studio work available for those not receiving said radio play, right?
MOST radio stations are playing pop music (everything from Britany Spears to Kelly Clarksen). Most pop music uses session players. Most session players have a jazz background. I've already given you a long list of them. I know of not one guy who's known for playing metal that is also known as a regular studio musician. And no, a drummer is not a musician. Currently the top radio stations in the boston market WAAF and WBCN. Both are rock format. Both currently have metal programming. Granted, one station does only one hour per night, while the other has a two hour show once a week. Wowee! Meanwhile, neither station plays any Jazz. There IS a local jazz station. It's listenership is a mere fraction of either of those top two rock stations. Of course. We already went over this. Jazz is music for other musicians. Few people have the brains to understand it. Few people own a copy of The Theory of Relativity, The Universe In a Nutshell, The Discarded Image, or even The Faerie Queene, but they're still among the best books ever written and will always be used as refference books and university text books by others hundred's of years from now. C'mon Joe. You told me not to go there when I mentioned numbers. Let's hear it! Substantiate your claims. I'd love to see some soundscans, myspace hits, radio playlist from top 5 networks, or any billboard top 100 lists that in ANY way prove your statements. I've already proven every one of my statements while you've yet to prove a single one of yours. Show me where I EVER said jazz outsold ANY other music genre. The statement I made was that there's a jazz station in nearly every town and very few metal stations to be found anywhere. YOU'RE the one who claims there are metal stations all over creation. Let's see them. And again, none of it matters. Numbers are meaningless. There's no math theorum that says the majority is usually correct nor incorrect. What we do know is this: very few, if any, musicians known for playing heavy metal are getting any studio work in other genres. Actually, I don't know of a single one. The field is dominated by jazz players as it well should be. A jazz player has a versitile background. The very nature of his music proves this. He must know a ton of chords in every position. That alone will get him session work. Meta uses nothing but basic major and minor chords. Nothing else works over all that distortion. Someone with a background of playing simple music is simly not going to be taken seriously by studio owners, nor record producers. It's never going to happen. So back to the original topic . If a guy wants to have a long and healthy career in music, it would be most benefitial to have a background that shows he can do anything. Jazz is that background. It is the most complex music there has ever been. If you can play jazz, anything else will seem like child's play, and usually is.
post edited by Joe Bravo - 2007/07/31 14:14:27
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Randy P
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 14:14:41
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poke, poke, jab, needle, poke, poke........
post edited by rsp@odyssey.net - 2007/07/31 14:21:26
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Joe Bravo
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 14:16:41
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What fun!
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APC3
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 15:32:39
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droddey
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 15:40:48
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Uh, yeah, that was kind of the point. That metal doesn't sell like it did way back when for these guys who are living in the 80's. If it did then there'd be a ton of radio stations playing it. Radio stations are simply looking to make money. If metal sold they'd be on it. But that's kind of demonstrably not true. Metal does sale, and it's not on the radio. And I'm sure you understand that things get played on the radio, not because they sell well, but because they bring a demographic to that station that will spend money and therefore are attractive to advertisers. The metal crowd probably isn't so hot on that front compared to, say, soccer moms or urban professionals or bling-bling wannabe gansta rappers, so no matter how well it might sell as music, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily going to be on the radio just because corporations exist to make money.
post edited by droddey - 2007/07/31 15:47:51
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marcos69
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 16:11:39
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Back to the OP. Consider this. Just because you are young now and don't want to miss your opportunity doesn't mean that NOW is the time of your opportunity. I never pursued a career in music when I was younger because I didn't have a product then. I was too immature musically and didn't really get into my creative stride until my 40's. I'm 47 now and writing and playing the best I ever have. I could not have created the music I have lately when I was in my 20's. With age comes wisdom and polish.
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Joe Bravo
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 16:14:47
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But that's kind of demonstrably not true. Metal does sale, and it's not on the radio. And I'm sure you understand that things get played on the radio, not because they sell well, but because they bring a demographic to that station that will spend money and therefore are attractive to advertisers.
I was taking all that into account.
BTW, I'll say it again, I couldn't care less if someone wants to play metal or marching band music. I care about the topic that began the thread. Namely, is it wise to persue music fulll-time? I stand by what I originally posted. You may get lucky with a metal band or alternative rock, (which I would never say has anything to do with being with a small record company or releasing albums independantly; that's Independant Music, not alternative rock), but you probably won't, and if you want longevity in the business it would be wise to cover all your bases. know everything there is to know about music, scales, harmony, chords, and be a good sight reader. Better yet, get a degree in music so you can at least teach at a high school level as a backup plan. Do all that and you're gonna get work. I only had a year of college and was self taught on guitar, but because I was gigging all over town playing jazz and jazz-rock fusion back in the early 80's, I still got to do some session work. This town ain't no music mecca and sessions here mean playing on jingles more than anything, but as long as you can read a chord chart and improvise the leads, you can get away with it sometimes. Depends on who hires you. I somehow got involved with some gospel rock/pop records back then too. I really don't know how it happened. I think I just played on a demo for some young guy in South County once, and he must have given my name to people because I did a lot of sessions in small studios that year. I even did a lot of small parts for free on independant projects for people because I didn't need the money really. It was easy work; I just had to come in and blow a lead here and there, and that was it. I had completely forgotten about that stuff (as has the rest of the world), but there was a guy by the name of Claud Crain(sp?) who used to be a gospel record collector/dealer, and he came out with a book that contained up to that point (about twnety years ago) every single gospel recording ever made, even home custom cassettes and stuff. I mean EVERYTHING. I got a call from a record buyer I used to know by the name of John Bradshaw who had just gotten the book, and he said my name was all over the place in it. I had no idea. Apparently a lot of those sessions (and many of them were just little demo sessions) I had played on ended up on records eventually and that sort of thing.
Got's to go. Working on my own book (of a different nature).
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Joe Bravo
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 16:17:14
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ORIGINAL: marcos69
Back to the OP. Consider this. Just because you are young now and don't want to miss your opportunity doesn't mean that NOW is the time of your opportunity. I never pursued a career in music when I was younger because I didn't have a product then. I was too immature musically and didn't really get into my creative stride until my 40's. I'm 47 now and writing and playing the best I ever have. I could not have created the music I have lately when I was in my 20's. With age comes wisdom and polish.
I can say almost the exact same for myself (and I'm 48). I was a better improviser and had better technique when I was much younger, mostly because I don't practice now, but I wasn't nearly as musical as I am now. I listen to some of the stuff I recorded twenty years ago and just cringe.
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marcos69
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 16:20:14
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ORIGINAL: yep
ORIGINAL: Gamergirl
...Do you have the "Holy Diver Live," set? I have the CD and the video. It's effin awesome!
I'm writing a song that's a tribute to RJD right now... I'll tell you what inspired me, was the "Tenacious D" movie. Dude, you should watch that... if that doesn't inspire you to finish a song, I don't know what will...
The most perfect image in the history of Rock music is the centerpiece from the "Beast of Dio" compilation where he's onstage in front of a big Demon statue holding a lightsaber up in the air.
Not only is Dio totally awesome, but he's also totally earnest about what he does and never blows the joke.
I saw him down here about 2 years ago. All the theatrics aside, there isn't a more humble and appreciative artist. He is honestly gracious to his fans.
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droddey
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 16:27:02
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I can say almost the exact same for myself (and I'm 48). I was a better improviser and had better technique when I was much younger, mostly because I don't practice now, but I wasn't nearly as musical as I am now. I listen to some of the stuff I recorded twenty years ago and just cringe. I agree. In some ways, it was because I thought less back then, and just felt more and was able to just play on gut instinct. Now I think too much, and I'm also not as physically proficient though I'm getting that back slowly.
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APC3
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 16:36:33
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ORIGINAL: Joe Bravo
I can say almost the exact same for myself (and I'm 48). I was a better improviser and had better technique when I was much younger, mostly because I don't practice now, but I wasn't nearly as musical as I am now. I listen to some of the stuff I recorded twenty years ago and just cringe.
This is soo true. 
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AsherLongley
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 16:37:56
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Pardon me if this has already been revealed, but:
HAS XFUSION ACTUALLY POSTED SOME OF HIS MUSIC YET???
I appologize if this has already been addressed, however, we're at 5 pages to this thread now and, I just don't want to go looking any more.
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OldGeezer
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 17:11:03
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No pressure there! Posting an example means possibly being told "Don't quit your day job" and knowing it's a totally serious suggestion. Could you tell him if that's what you thought? I have no problem telling someone his/her song bites, but I don't think I have it in me to tell someone that he or she bites. And what if I tell him "Yeah! You rock!", and he does, but his carreer never even gets off the ground. I'm not sure how comfortable the situation would be for anyone if he posts examples in this thread. And I'm not sure how accurate the results would be either. It could be he gets 5 posts saying "go for it" when, for the reason mentioned above, there could be 50 who think he's not good enough but don't post, leaving him falsely thinking it's a unanimous: "Quit your job!" Xfusion, I think the only deciding factor is wether or not your music rules or sucks to the general population. If I were you, I wouldn't post anything in this thread...I'd upload a couple of good tunes onto several popular sites, point to them in as many relevant forums I could, and monitor comments and ratings. I doubt you'll sell much music if you can't give it away. If you notice you're suddenly in the top 20 on one of those sites, then you might see that as a good indicator. If you get few downloads and poor or no ratings, then you might wanna rethink the whole idea.
post edited by OldGeezer - 2007/07/31 17:24:15
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AsherLongley
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 19:03:40
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ORIGINAL: OldGeezer
No pressure there! Posting an example means possibly being told "Don't quit your day job" and knowing it's a totally serious suggestion. Could you tell him if that's what you thought? I have no problem telling someone his/her song bites, but I don't think I have it in me to tell someone that he or she bites. And what if I tell him "Yeah! You rock!", and he does, but his carreer never even gets off the ground. I'm not sure how comfortable the situation would be for anyone if he posts examples in this thread. And I'm not sure how accurate the results would be either. It could be he gets 5 posts saying "go for it" when, for the reason mentioned above, there could be 50 who think he's not good enough but don't post, leaving him falsely thinking it's a unanimous: "Quit your job!"
Xfusion, I think the only deciding factor is wether or not your music rules or sucks to the general population. If I were you, I wouldn't post anything in this thread...I'd upload a couple of good tunes onto several popular sites, point to them in as many relevant forums I could, and monitor comments and ratings. I doubt you'll sell much music if you can't give it away. If you notice you're suddenly in the top 20 on one of those sites, then you might see that as a good indicator. If you get few downloads and poor or no ratings, then you might wanna rethink the whole idea.
Okay. I'd still like to hear his stuff.
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fep
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 19:22:29
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Yeah, I'd like to hear his stuff too.
It's silly that anyone encouraged him to drop his job and pursue a career in music before actually hearing his music. It's actually silly that he asked without giving us any idea how talented and accomplished he is.
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Joe Bravo
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 20:19:08
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Xfusion, Just an idea, but you might want to try posting something at garageband.com since everything is completely anonymous there. Hundreds of people post songs, they listen to yours, you listen to theirs, and everyone votes on what they listen to, but no one knows who's tune they're listening to. The way they have the system set up it's almost impossible to cheat. It's the best way I know of to get an honest opinion of your work. And it's free.
post edited by Joe Bravo - 2007/07/31 20:26:13
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 21:09:02
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i guess i'll be the one to say this: the songs forum isn't the place to find the hard facts about your music. about your mix, sure, about the technical aspects of your playing, most of the time, but not about that subjective musical quality that makes people stand up and listen. i love this place, but when it comes to critiques no one wants to step on anybody's toes.
online sites are a good idea, but my suggestion would be to find some local place where you can play for a crowd, preferably a place where you might find music you like similar to the kind you write. doesn't have to be a big crowd. just see if you get a positive reaction and take it from there. if you can't connect with people live, i doubt it'll work out too well over the internet.
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yep
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 22:24:30
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ORIGINAL: fep
...It's silly that anyone encouraged him to drop his job and pursue a career in music before actually hearing his music... It was my impression that he has not actually finished assembling any original music, and that he felt this was the fault of his job, and that quitting his job would allow him to see if he actually *could* create some worthwhile music. Cheers.
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keith
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 22:54:10
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ORIGINAL: Joe Bravo
MOST radio stations are playing pop music (everything from Britany Spears to Kelly Clarksen). I think using radio airplay as a measuring stick is a little dubious these days... we live in a ClearChannel world... whatever ClearChannel wants us to hear, that's what we hear. Or SONY/BMG, or Entercom, or <insert entertainment mega corporation here>... I think CD sales by genre (+ downloads by genre) would be a more accurate representation. As far as radio is concerned, XM radio probably has some more independence than terrestrial, but there you're only talking about those people that can afford XM. One more thing about radio: the radio landscape in 2007 is vastly different than it was in the 1987...
post edited by keith - 2007/07/31 23:03:22
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Joe Bravo
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 23:21:37
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ORIGINAL: keith
ORIGINAL: Joe Bravo
MOST radio stations are playing pop music (everything from Britany Spears to Kelly Clarksen).
I think using radio airplay as a measuring stick is a little dubious these days...
Yeah, that's what I said. Numbers are meaningless. So we agree I guess. we live in a ClearChannel world... Never heard it in my life, and don't really know anybody that has it. I'm not a radio guy; I'm a record guy. I guess if I were 20 or 30 years younger I'd feel different about things maybe. Dunno though, I've looked through station play-lists from Clear Channel before and it looked like the same ole stuff to me, just minus the commercials. I think radio is in worse shape than ever. At least when I was a kid DJ's had some independance and could largely play what they wanted to some degree. Of course payola played a big part of the industry's change there, but it's not been a change for the better. I think "station programmer" is the ugliest phrase in the English language. Well, that and "executive privilege". Oh, and "Paris Hilton". But you already knew that.
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droddey
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 23:34:49
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Clear Channel isn't an XM type thing, it's a mega-conglomeration of radio stations. Once the restrictions were lifted from any one company owning too many radio stations, companies like Clear Channel have snapped them up like toys. They own some obscene percentage of stations, something that shouldn't remotely be allowed.
Since radio station ownership rules were relaxed in 1996, Clear Channel Communications has become one of the largest owners of US radio stations. Currently, it owns over 1,200 radio stations and 30 TV stations around the US, with federal regulations currently limiting it to a maximum of eight radio stations per market.
The radio behemoth is asking the Federal Communications Commission to further relax its ownership rules and allow it to grab up to 12 stations in the largest US markets. Late last month, two Clear Channel representatives met with FCC commissioners Robert M. McDowell and Deborah Taylor Tate to lobby for increased local station ownership limits. In addition, the company has been furiously lobbying some members of Congress for support.
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keith
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/07/31 23:58:58
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ORIGINAL: droddey
Clear Channel isn't an XM type thing, it's a mega-conglomeration of radio stations. Once the restrictions were lifted from any one company owning too many radio stations, companies like Clear Channel have snapped them up like toys. They own some obscene percentage of stations, something that shouldn't remotely be allowed.
Since radio station ownership rules were relaxed in 1996, Clear Channel Communications has become one of the largest owners of US radio stations. Currently, it owns over 1,200 radio stations and 30 TV stations around the US, with federal regulations currently limiting it to a maximum of eight radio stations per market.
CC is one of a few... it just happens to be the most well-known. Apparently, CC started selling off radio stations this year, wasn't aware of that (but I don't exactly "follow the industry" either). This recent article points out that CC "only" ever owned about 10% of all US radio stations: http://www.techliberation.com/archives/042338.php I think that's about right, based on this guy's totals: http://www.musicbizacademy.com/articles/radio/stations.htm Here are the problems: 1.) The 12,000 or so total include ALL radio stations, not just FM -- what's CC's ownership of FM? (not sure) 2.) Even if CC only owns roughly 10% the problem is that there's a small handful of other conglomerates like CC that also own 10% -- so you end up with 4 or 5 companies owning like 50% of all radio stations!!!  Here's some more info on radio consolidation: http://www.futureofmusic.org/research/radiostudy06.cfm Of particular note: The top four radio station owners [e.g., CC] have almost half of the listeners and the top ten owners have almost two-thirds of listeners So, what all that means is you're going to be hearing a lot of Britney and Kelly. As a matter of full disclosure, I actually like Kelly Clarkson, but that's a different thread altogether... It's called "consolidation"... I think "homogeneization" is more appropriate...
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Joe Bravo
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/08/01 00:01:13
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Oh, I thought you were talking about that satellite radio stuff. Sorry for the mixup.
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keith
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/08/01 00:07:34
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ORIGINAL: Joe Bravo
Oh, I thought you were talking about that satellite radio stuff. Sorry for the mixup.
I brought up XM as an alternative to what's happening here on earth... As in, everybody here is listening to ClearChannel and similar programming, so what are people with Sirius and XM tuning into? Maybe it's ultimately the same problem, but I'm just under the impressions that there's more "freedom" being provided with satellite radio options. Of course, none of it matters, because you're not going to get a cross-section of society listening to satellite.
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Joe Bravo
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RE: OT: Should I quit my job to focus on music?
2007/08/01 00:24:47
(permalink)
I had hoped by now that Internet radio would have taken off bigger than it has, but unfortunately there's even more muck to wade through if you're going to find anything worthwhile. And even if you do, I don't think there's anyway to listen to it in the car and so forth. I don't know for sure though. I just don't keep up with radio trends. Maybe somebody has figured out a way to do it that I'm not aware of. I've never found anthing to write home about when it comes to Internet radio either though, but I seldom look.
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