Helpful ReplySPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome

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Guitarmech111
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2015/03/14 08:44:13 (permalink)

SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome

I am glad that there is an update. I do have an issue with this update process though. I like the old way to update. There needs to be an option in the command center to update all. If there is one, I don't see that as well.
 
Doing a single update, then restarting command center update check takes way too long to get all the updates. I would like to push one button and get them all. If there is a way, I am missing it.
 
Thoughts?

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dwardzala
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/14 23:08:12 (permalink)
I agree with this - I'd like to see all the Sonar content update when Sonar is updates (i.e. the components under Sonar when its expanded in CCC).
 
The braintree update was cumbersome, especially since CCC rescans for updates after every update.

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RobertB
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/15 00:21:17 (permalink)
I'm inclined to agree.
But my take is that Cakewalk rolled out a fairly bare version just to make sure the thing worked.
Moving forward, Sonar is going to be in a somewhat plastic, if not fluid state. I'm fairly certain this will include C3.
The interaction between Cakewalk and the user base really intensified with X3, and led to what we have now.
We are more empowered that ever in making Sonar what we want, and Cakewalk is listening.
I think the next year is going to be a very exciting time to be here.

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mixmkr
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/15 02:08:33 (permalink)
Since splat first came out, I've spent maybe 30-40 minutes tops installing the program and then the Alston and Braintree updates. Since Jan 21, that's a small fraction of the time I've spent being involved with Sonar. Therefore I'd have to kinda disagree and think (especially compared to some other software) The timeframe is ok. Change some guitar strings or dust your mixer while things are installing/updating. I also tend to believe CCC is in it's infancy. Also I only look at the CCC when I read about an update here. Otherwise I'm launching from a shortcut
post edited by mixmkr - 2015/03/15 02:14:36

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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/15 22:07:02 (permalink)
I agree, drives me nuts. Update when you open the Application and leave it their. The odds of another update occurring in the time that you have opened the app is tiny.It may also work better for those on a faster connection.
 
When I found the hide function, and hid Raputure and Dim Pro, I thought that was good. I looked at other things I could hide and though 'wait, how do I un-hide?' trying to find that an with nearly every button press having to sit through another update check was barmy, it had only be 10-20 seconds since it last checked.
 

 
#5
dwardzala
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/16 07:57:26 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby kevo 2015/03/16 10:43:29
mixmkr
Since splat first came out, I've spent maybe 30-40 minutes tops installing the program and then the Alston and Braintree updates. Since Jan 21, that's a small fraction of the time I've spent being involved with Sonar. Therefore I'd have to kinda disagree and think (especially compared to some other software) The timeframe is ok. Change some guitar strings or dust your mixer while things are installing/updating. I also tend to believe CCC is in it's infancy. Also I only look at the CCC when I read about an update here. Otherwise I'm launching from a shortcut

Valid points here - its not a lot of time.  Its just that it could be made better (probably easily, but I don't know squat about programming).  I just want to provide feedback so that Sonar can be the best it can be.

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#6
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/16 08:46:14 (permalink)
I mentioned in the recent survey that it would be great if you could select which components you want to update so that the update process is more unattended. As it is, it is very painful to have to babysit CCC for updates. Hopefully enough of us point this out that it will bd addressed with the next update.

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Willy Jones [Cakewalk]
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/16 12:27:01 (permalink)
Any chance I can entice you guys to make a thread in the feature request forum?
 
We have a lot of moving parts and posting requests in the wrong place will most certainly ensure that we don't see it 

Willy Jones 
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SilkTone
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/17 11:17:34 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Schafe 2015/03/17 18:48:23
Willy Jones [Cakewalk]
Any chance I can entice you guys to make a thread in the feature request forum?
 
We have a lot of moving parts and posting requests in the wrong place will most certainly ensure that we don't see it 



There are already threads about the multiple C3 issues in the feature request forum. I really don't think it makes a difference whether issues are posted there or here, since it seems they will be equally ignored. And I'm sorry Willy but I don't buy for a second that CW isn't already intimately aware of these issues, since IFAICT C3 seems to be the most complained about feature by far in the Platinum release. Also strange is how CW employees will comment on all sorts of things in threads until C3 is mentioned, at which point they all disappear. It's very weird really.
 
EDIT: And just to repeat the same points again, since this seems to be news to CW, here are what people have been complaining about in C3 (and which has been posted in the FR forum):
  • Allow per-product install locations.
  • Detect already installed products, whether they were manually installed in default or non-default locations. All this info is in the registry, why can't it pick it up?
  • Allow uninstalling of products. I used C3 to install D-Pro and Rapture, but wanted to uninstall them and install them manually somewhere not on my limited space C drive. To date, after asking multiple times in the forum, nobody can tell me how to uninstall Rapture and D-Pro. It can't be done from either C3 or Add/Remove Programs.
  • Show changes between updates.
  • Allow un-hiding of previously hidden products.
  • Allow the ability to select multiple products and have them all downloaded/installed in one go.
post edited by SilkTone - 2015/03/17 11:27:53
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Splat
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/17 11:28:53 (permalink)
Willy Jones [Cakewalk]
Any chance I can entice you guys to make a thread in the feature request forum?
 
We have a lot of moving parts and posting requests in the wrong place will most certainly ensure that we don't see it 



 
SilkTone
There are already threads about the multiple C3 issues in the feature request forum. I really don't think it makes a difference whether issues are posted there or here, since it seems they will be equally ignored. And I'm sorry Willy but I don't buy for a second that CW isn't already intimately aware of these issues, since IFAICT C3 seems to be the most complained about feature by far in the Platinum release. Also strange is how CW employees will comment on all sorts of things in threads until C3 is mentioned, at which point they all disappear. It's very weird really.


My issue is with the problem reports forum...  when a Cakewalk staffer does comment on a thread and confirm it's an issue or it's been fixed they never leave a CWBRN number in the subject title or lock the thread as per the handbook guidelines leaving somebody else to pick up the pieces (follow up comments are ignored). Cakewalk effectively wrote the handbook themselves (it's their own process) and asked for hosts to dot the "I"'s and cross the "T's". I agree with the process as long as people follow it, and the authors are not. I wish they would spend more time looking at some of the threads in this forum and give more feedback. Sorry to come out it public over this but I did try internally and never got any response.
 
However to say Cakewalk staffers aren't aware of the issues or enhancements needed for the CCC, you've got to be joking! I have absolutely no doubt Willy is sincere when he says Cakewalk pays attention to the features request forum. The real frustration is that you want the enhancements now.... unfortunately Rome wasn't built in a day and making software and then testing it can often take longer... So give 'em a chance.
 
And too right if you aren't posting enhancements in the enhancements forum don't expect Cakewalk to ever implement it any time soon. It's a pity this thread wasn't moved sooner before it became another discussion (hosts (who are mere volunteers) on the other hand can't be expected to pay attention to every single thread 24 hours a day).
 
Cheers...
post edited by Splat - 2015/03/17 11:36:02

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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/17 11:33:32 (permalink)
I kinda like CCC. yeah its time consuming , but what I do like is that they put the videos in the command center for easy viewing, what would be nice is ,  more variety of videos perhaps a new video containing whats going on in your new update. I find it the perfect time to view while waiting.. A fantastic Idea , just hope the bakers update them ..

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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/17 11:34:21 (permalink)
Then post a thread in the enhancements forum (if there isn't one already) and get voting!

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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/17 11:53:23 (permalink)
Splat
However to say Cakewalk staffers aren't aware of the issues or enhancements needed for the CCC, you've got to be joking!

 
You must have misread my post. I was saying that they must be aware of these issues by now.
 
I have absolutely no doubt Willy is sincere when he says Cakewalk pays attention to the features request forum. The real frustration is that you want the enhancements now.... unfortunately Rome wasn't built in a day and making software and then testing it can often take longer... So give 'em a chance.

 
Nobody is expecting CW to fix these issues overnight, but for some reason CW completely ignores requests to acknowledge these issues (some severe, like no way to specify install locations), and to provide some indication that they plan to fix these issues. The few times CW does give some reply, it seems it was the 1st time they ever heard of it (see Willy's reply above), which from all indications appears to be the most complained about new feature in the Platinum release.
 
And too right if you aren't posting enhancements in the enhancements forum don't expect Cakewalk to ever implement it any time soon.



I think you should re-read my entire post carefully. There I mentioned that these issues have been posted about in the FR forum. Where did you get the idea from that they weren't already posted in the FR forum?
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SilkTone
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/17 12:04:51 (permalink)
Splat
Then post a thread in the enhancements forum (if there isn't one already) and get voting!



It has been done a long time ago already. See here, here and here. Those are not the only threads about C3 in the FR forum.
 
Please stop making it sound as if we aren't doing our part in trying to make CW aware of this. After all of those threads in the FR forum, apparently it is still news to CW that there are issues with C3 when someone posts about it somewhere else. Does my original post in this thread make more sense now?
 
EDIT: To clarify...
 
Willy said:
Any chance I can entice you guys to make a thread in the feature request forum?

 
Then I said:
There are already threads about the multiple C3 issues in the feature request forum. I really don't think it makes a difference whether issues are posted there or here, since it seems they will be equally ignored.

 
...which you took offense with. But then I mentioned just 3 of the multiple threads in the FR forum:
It has been done a long time ago already. See here, here and here. Those are not the only threads about C3 in the FR forum.

 
So does that clarify my point, and that no matter where these things are posted, they will get equally ignored?
post edited by SilkTone - 2015/03/17 12:16:49
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Splat
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/17 12:14:06 (permalink)
Yeah sorry I misread "And I'm sorry Willy but I don't buy for a second that CW isn't already intimately aware of these issues," I totally agree of course they are..
 
Still if there are three threads in the enhancement forums somebody should merge them (assuming they are exactly the same???) and people should get voting....
 
I wouldn't be surprised it if will take several months before we see CCC enhancements it won't be quick to do and esp to test. Hard to speculate anyway as I have no idea what stage they are at of course.

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SilkTone
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/17 12:15:40 (permalink)
Ah ok
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/17 12:28:25 (permalink)
So we agree (my point still remains, however I was wrong to disagree with you, we mostly seem to agree), my point is that at the next triage meeting they might/will probably be looking at stats down the enhancements forum. Also a lot of people don't realise they can vote on the problem reports forum as well for bugs. It's probably all about metrics that they can show in meetings... 

I've been in situations myself where I've been a QA guy active in another software forums (as a mod and employee of another company), attended triage meetings with developers, and all they looked at is stats rather than what the community is saying (often the stats did not reflect the same thing). It was extremely frustrating for me as I believed I had a good idea what the community wanted and needed (it was pretty obvious). What forums posters might not understand is that developers and managers may not have time or resources to read every forum post so they turn to stats instead to convince others inside the company.

I would then turn to the community to get voting - and ... well... they mostly posted comments rather than vote - so they didn't get listened to....
 
(Edited several times sorry)...
post edited by Splat - 2015/03/17 12:37:59

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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/17 12:58:14 (permalink)
I think we should give them a break its not been out long judge them in a year not in a month for what it's worth I think ur doing a great job & it will only get better 

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Willy Jones [Cakewalk]
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/17 18:09:18 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Studious 2015/03/17 18:33:36
Hi Steven,
 

There are already threads about the multiple C3 issues in the feature request forum. I really don't think it makes a difference whether issues are posted there or here, since it seems they will be equally ignored.

 
It makes a huge difference, we can run down the feature request forum and get focused, actionable, constructive feedback and add it to our backlog in minutes. That cannot be said for the SONAR forum. 
 
If my intention was to simply ignore it - why would I bother posting in here at all? I'm pretty sure a staffer participation in a thread draws more, not less attention to the topic.
 
Because we do not reply to every single thread does not mean it's ignored. In many cases just because a user requests something doesn't mean its actionable or works for everybody. The whole point of a feature request forum is a venue where folks can discuss and develop a consensus on the best solution together. If you don't want to contribute to that conversation you're more than welcome to just drop a note to our support team directly with your request.
 

And I'm sorry Willy but I don't buy for a second that CW isn't already intimately aware of these issues, since IFAICT C3 seems to be the most complained about feature by far in the Platinum release. 

 
I never said that we were not aware of C3 issues. I asked for feedback to be consolidated into a single place. A place where we don't have to weed through pages of unrelated issues to get to the requests & ideas or problems. 
 

Also strange is how CW employees will comment on all sorts of things in threads until C3 is mentioned, at which point they all disappear. It's very weird really.

 
Your version of history is very interesting, I think you'll find that I participated in lots of C3 threads. Yes things get busy and I'll go dark on the forum at times, the forums are not my primary responsibility.
 
Anyway - I'm truly sorry I offended you so much by my request to put the feedback in a single place, in the future I won't do that and we can just cross our our fingers that someone finds it.
 
Back on topic to your specific requests, I'll illustrate exactly why discussion around these by users is valuable for us in designing C3.
 
Allow per-product install locations.
While I don't know exactly what you mean by per-product, I'm assuming you mean the ability to specify the install path. Can you elaborate how you'd like this to work, do you want a new button a context menu? How often do you think you'd use this option vs the default? There are about 30 design questions in this one - hearing what others think would be extremely helpful.
 
Detect already installed products, whether they were manually installed in default or non-default locations. All this info is in the registry, why can't it pick it up?
This is on our radar - but allow me to correct you. Not everything is in the registry - there is some work we need to do to a lot of our existing products to make everything actually be in the registry. 
 
Allow uninstalling of products. I used C3 to install D-Pro and Rapture, but wanted to uninstall them and install them manually somewhere not on my limited space C drive. To date, after asking multiple times in the forum, nobody can tell me how to uninstall Rapture and D-Pro. It can't be done from either C3 or Add/Remove Programs.
Most products can be uninstalled by right-clicking on the product name in the tree on the left. If it can't be uninstalled then our installer failed to drop the uninstall.exe. 
 
Show changes between updates.
When an update is available orange text appears and includes a clickable link. We haven't been using that heavily but again - these 4 words you have provided don't really tell us how you'd like it to work or what would help illustrate changes. Feedback and discussion around this would be great - how would you like to see changes presented? Do you read them all the time or just every now and again (IOW - should it be super prevalent or just available somewhere)?
 
Allow un-hiding of previously hidden products.
Yeah we can get on that one, would just a button in the settings page to unhide all products be enough or do you see a need to un-hide specific ones?
 
Allow the ability to select multiple products and have them all downloaded/installed in one go.
This is an area where use-case and better understanding can help us design something that makes the most sense. If you're going to use this once in a blue moon then maybe something like CTRL + clicking products in the tree and clicking install is enough. If you're going to use this every single time then we should find something that is more obvious/intuitive. 
 
 

Willy Jones 
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#19
Splat
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/17 18:18:57 (permalink)
Good post Willy.
 
I also hope you can get some attention to the with problem reports forum before it gets in too much of a mess..  I'm around, but I'm around less and I don't have the permissions like I used to have, so I rely on pestering forum hosts, and it's hard to tell what's fixed without CWBRN numbers. I'm worried that forum will become a mess (especially with the "problem" title that everybody is being misleaded by). There are certainly loads of frozen move notifications that can at least be deleted now and a load of threads that could be commented upon. When Cakewalk staffers say "reproducible" they often don't leave CWBRN numbers leaving the forum handbook process out in a limb. A load of threads in there are probably better off being troubleshooted in Sonar forums first (simply because of more eyeballs). Also implemented issues after left laying around making Sonar look more buggy than it is. If staff could be briefed and they could go through the threads that would be really cool...
 
Thanks..

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#20
SilkTone
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/18 13:19:56 (permalink)
Willy Jones [Cakewalk]
I never said that we were not aware of C3 issues. I asked for feedback to be consolidated into a single place. A place where we don't have to weed through pages of unrelated issues to get to the requests & ideas or problems. 

 
Willy, there are already about 5 threads alone in the FR forum right now regarding C3 issues, with at least one being very succinct in describing this issue. You appear to be unaware of these issues, so your suggestion is to...create a 6th thread?
 
Anyway - I'm truly sorry I offended you so much by my request to put the feedback in a single place, in the future I won't do that and we can just cross our our fingers that someone finds it.

 
This has been done already in the FR forum as explained above. Can you elaborate as to what is insufficient regarding those existing threads?
 
Back on topic to your specific requests, I'll illustrate exactly why discussion around these by users is valuable for us in designing C3.
 
Allow per-product install locations.
While I don't know exactly what you mean by per-product, I'm assuming you mean the ability to specify the install path.

 
Yes of course. Sonar, Dim-Pro, Rapture, Studio Instruments Suite, Artist Instrument Collection, Platinum Instrument Collection... Each of those, and other, need the ability to have a custom destination specified.
 
Can you elaborate how you'd like this to work, do you want a new button a context menu?

 
Yes, a button to a dialog allowing to specify a custom location. What is so complicated about that?
 
How often do you think you'd use this option vs the default?

 
For those of us that paid $$$ for dedicated sample SSDs, ALL THE TIME.
 
There are about 30 design questions in this one - hearing what others think would be extremely helpful.

 
There is just one design question - Where to put the button for each product. Compared to other problems CW solved, this one is trivial. I fail to see what is so complicated about this. There shouldn't even be a question that this should be a must-have feature. We should not need to justify why this is required. I'm really surprised that we have to explain this over and over to a company like CW. See here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here.
 
Allow uninstalling of products. I used C3 to install D-Pro and Rapture, but wanted to uninstall them and install them manually somewhere not on my limited space C drive. To date, after asking multiple times in the forum, nobody can tell me how to uninstall Rapture and D-Pro. It can't be done from either C3 or Add/Remove Programs.
Most products can be uninstalled by right-clicking on the product name in the tree on the left. If it can't be uninstalled then our installer failed to drop the uninstall.exe.

 
So this is most likely a bug in C3 then if it was supposed to allow for an uninstall via Add/Remove Programs. It doesn't give me the uninstall option in the right-click menu for those two products either.
 
Show changes between updates.
When an update is available orange text appears and includes a clickable link. We haven't been using that heavily but again - these 4 words you have provided don't really tell us how you'd like it to work or what would help illustrate changes. Feedback and discussion around this would be great - how would you like to see changes presented? Do you read them all the time or just every now and again (IOW - should it be super prevalent or just available somewhere)?

 
TBH this isn't something that I care too much about, but I added it to my list since other people asked for this and I wanted to have a comprehensive list of issues in one place.
 
Allow un-hiding of previously hidden products.
Yeah we can get on that one, would just a button in the settings page to unhide all products be enough or do you see a need to un-hide specific ones?

 
Yes that would be fine. I had a particularly bad experience because of this. I wanted to unhide Melodyne Essential after hiding it, and foolishly followed someone's suggestion to log out/in from C3. This wiped everything from C3's records and it no longer recognized any installed products, so I had to re-install everything again. Just because I wanted to un-hide one product. This also shows why C3 should be able to recognize already-installed products based on registry entries or config files.
 
The ability to select multiple products and have them all downloaded/installed in one go.
This is an area where use-case and better understanding can help us design something that makes the most sense. If you're going to use this once in a blue moon then maybe something like CTRL + clicking products in the tree and clicking install is enough. If you're going to use this every single time then we should find something that is more obvious/intuitive.

 
Yes this is not critical, just a bit of an annoyance. But a few people did mention this so I added it to the list. Just a way to toggle a per-product selection on/off and a button to start the overall download/install process.
 
Willy your overall response is a bit of a let-down for me and I'm sure others too that require the ability to specify install locations. I was quietly hoping (like I'm sure other were too) that CW was well aware of this issue and how important it is to a lot of people, and hence in the process of working on a fix. Your reply makes it clear that we are still stuck in the phase where we try to explain to CW what the issue is and why there are people for which the default install locations isn't workable. For those people, the solution is to...not use C3?
#21
John
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/18 14:03:52 (permalink)
I'm somewhat a supporter of C3. But if I understand some of the posts here some seem to start Sonar via the C3. If that is so I can see why some would feel its a pain to do so. I never thought of starting Sonar from C3. I have it as a quick launch shortcut on the Windows Taskbar.
 
I never see the C3 unless I start it on purpose to check for updates. 

Best
John
#22
sven450
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/18 14:11:26 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby cryophonik 2015/03/19 12:21:16
It is pretty clear that Cakewalk is aware and is attempting to resolve these issues.  How long they will take or how many they can fix at once is something users don't know and on which speculation is futile and counter-productive.
 
Sarcastic comments like "What is so complicated about that?" and "I fail to see what is so complicated about this" very clearly shows the truth:  we are not Cakewalk programmers, and we do not understand how difficult or time consuming it is to do these things.  To assume they are a simple matter to fix over lunch is ludicrous.  Unless you are a Baker, and helped develop Platinum, then there is no way to know exactly "what is so complicated".  
 
I think it is safe to assume THEY know how complicated these things are, and are working to fix them.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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#23
Splat
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/18 14:28:09 (permalink)
The fact Willy bothered to respond at all (I didn't get one I'm jealous) when he's probably working his ass off trying to get it sorted probably speaks more than anything... Getting involved in analytical discussions is probably not worth the time he's given his advice on how to lobby it's your choice if you wish to take it.

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#24
SilkTone
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/18 14:28:47 (permalink)
sven450
It is pretty clear that Cakewalk is aware and is attempting to resolve these issues.  How long they will take or how many they can fix at once is something users don't know and on which speculation is futile and counter-productive.
 
Sarcastic comments like "What is so complicated about that?" and "I fail to see what is so complicated about this" very clearly shows the truth:  we are not Cakewalk programmers, and we do not understand how difficult or time consuming it is to do these things.  To assume they are a simple matter to fix over lunch is ludicrous.  Unless you are a Baker, and helped develop Platinum, then there is no way to know exactly "what is so complicated".  
 
I think it is safe to assume THEY know how complicated these things are, and are working to fix them.



I've been doing all sorts of software development for over 25 years now, including everything from low-level system programming to UIs. Adding a button next to each product to allow a custom path, and passing that to the installer is trivial by any programming standards. The type of programming that goes into a product like Sonar is infinitely more complex. Hence my question "What is so complicated about that?". It is a perfectly valid question.
 
I don't agree that "It is pretty clear that Cakewalk is aware and is attempting to resolve these issues". From Willy's reply, it seems more like CW isn't even sure that there is a problem to begin with. Then again Willy doesn't speak for everyone at CW so maybe someone else is aware of these issues and are working on fixes.
 
EDIT: BTW, while there might have been some small amount of sarcasm in my reply to Willy (sorry), I was replying to his statement that "There are about 30 design questions in this one". I'm not sure why there would be a lot of unanswered questions with such a straightforward feature to allow per-product install locations.
post edited by SilkTone - 2015/03/18 14:40:07
#25
Splat
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/18 14:36:56 (permalink)
I've been doing development seriously since '94. Your assumption about Willy's motivations are completely opposite to mine. It's like we read different posts. The way you write shows me you've probably haven't had to deal with a team of developers,qa,managers,marketing,customers,an online community, and a business owner on a major project. Often it's more than developers developers developers..

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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#26
SilkTone
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/18 14:49:28 (permalink)
Splat, I re-read Willy's replies to make sure I didn't misread it. Sure, his intentions are good and he wants to help.
 
To Willy: Thanks, it is appreciated. I'm glad you replied and hope we can work together on a solution.
 
My own frustration is from the fact that I believe those of us that are affected by these issues have done quite a bit in order to make the issues known, both here in the Sonar forum and in the FR forum. The string of threads I linked to should show that this is the case. The information is there, just wondering why we need to repeat the same process again by starting more threads.
 
I think we all have a common goal: Make Sonar even better than it already is.
 
 
#27
Splat
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/18 14:54:52 (permalink)
SilkTone
 
I've been doing all sorts of software development for over 25 years now, including everything from low-level system programming to UIs. Adding a button next to each product to allow a custom path, and passing that to the installer is trivial by any programming standards. The type of programming that goes into a product like Sonar is infinitely more complex. Hence my question "What is so complicated about that?". It is a perfectly valid question.



1) All the installers may need to be repackaged. There are a lot of packages.
 
2) You will need to add logic to read registry values so the CCC know where everything is installed, see next points.

3) The current packages may have different logic when storing file paths etc, the clear thing to do would be to adopt some sort of standard logic rather than write bucket loads of code to accommodate every scenario, that would be time consuming and increase development time/allow more scope for bugs. This new logic would have to be adopted for every package.

4) What about existing installs? What happens when you try to install something that's already installed elsewhere maybe a different path specified... how will that be handled?

5) It will need to be tested, what happens if the install fails or runs out of disk space, or there is a permissions or the storage is offline... how does that get reported back to the CCC afterwards?
 
6) There are probably other issues that may take priority over the CCC that we don't know about... How do you allocate resources when they are limited?
 
There's probably a few more things I haven't thought of...
It's not trivial... it's the big picture.
post edited by Splat - 2015/03/18 15:01:04

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#28
SilkTone
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/18 15:26:20 (permalink)
Splat, almost all of those issues can be resolved by having a global option in C3:
 
[x] Run installers silently
 
Then, users that want custom install locations can uncheck it, and all C3 has to do is to not run the installers silently. This way we can take advantage of having C3 manage updates, as well as take advantage of the fact that the individual installers are already smart enough by themselves to ask for install locations, detect previous installs and instead perform an upgrade in that location, etc.
 
1) All the installers may need to be repackaged. There are a lot of packages.

 
The above solution would solve that.
 
2) You will need to add logic to read registry values so the CCC know where everything is installed, see next points.

 
Yes agreed, logic would need to be added to detect installs via registry entries etc. Since CW owns most of the products this info should be readily available to them? Plus I've seen posts from end users explaining exactly where everything gets installed. If end users can figure it out, CW should have no problem. 

3) The current packages may have different logic when storing file paths etc, the clear thing to do would be to adopt some sort of standard logic rather than write bucket loads of code to accommodate every scenario, that would be time consuming and increase development time/allow more scope for bugs.

 
According to Willy products like DimPro, Rapture etc should have uninstallers, meaning I can uninstall it from Add/Remove Programs. If this works properly, then this issue becomes moot.

4) What about existing installs? What happens when you try to install something that's already installed elsewhere maybe a different path specified... how will that be handled?

 
Just like installers have always handled this. The installer will detect a previous version and upgrade it in place, first uninstall it, or ask that it be uninstalled first.

5) It will need to be tested, what happens if the install fails or runs out of disk space, or there is a permissions or the storage is offline... how does that get reported back to the CCC afterwards?

 
How does C3 deal with this today? The same conditions can have it fail whether it is a silent install or not.
 
6) There are probably other issues that may take priority over the CCC that we don't know about... How do you allocate resources when they are limited?

 
Having the ability to specify install locations is a fundamental feature and should have been in C3 V1.0. I remember reading in a thread about the Braintree update, and either Noel or another CW employee mentioned that a particular feature was thrown into that update because they had some extra time available.
post edited by SilkTone - 2015/03/18 15:33:34
#29
Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
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Re: SPLAT update with command center is too cumbersome 2015/03/18 15:31:43 (permalink)
SilkTone
 
Adding a button next to each product to allow a custom path, and passing that to the installer is trivial by any programming standards. The type of programming that goes into a product like Sonar is infinitely more complex. Hence my question "What is so complicated about that?". It is a perfectly valid question.
 

 
So you're the reason people think this type of stuff can be turned around in a day 
 
Splat
 
There's probably a few more things I haven't thought of...


You forgot the fact that Willy does not own a Tardis and cannot manipulate the total # of hours in a day. I find it frustrating since I could be doing a lot fewer things if he would get his act together. 
 
Sounds like you guys have been developing a lot longer then I have, but it didn't take me long to realize there's a huge difference between something being too hard or too complicated to address and something simply requiring time to address it (and address it properly). When someone asks you "why is it so hard", it's a bit frustrating to continue the conversation. It can be a bit defeating. Usually we just go back to solving the problems being reported anyway. It's not as if Cakewalk Command Center itself isn't based on years of legitimate feedback...
 
Feedback is good.
 
---
 
FWIW - Command Center is a brand new product for us. We put a ton of work into it, but you guys are all just seeing version 1 of it. I'd argue that our support guys might become bored soon when it comes to the # of installation problems we've resolved by having an installer that makes things easy on you. 
 
Thing is, we knew some power users would want to still do things the old fashioned way, which is why when we redesigned the store and My-Account pages we made sure it would also deliver our installers via assisted installers as well. This was deliberate and intentional. We also knew we'd be getting a ton of feedback in regards to what we should have done better, could do differently, with Command Center.
 
If default installation paths are a huge inconvenience in the meantime, you can still grab the assisted installers from here: www.cakewalk.com/my-account/products . It's a bit more of a PITA to download each installer separately in my opinion, but it's an available option.

Ryan Munnis
Cakewalk
#30
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