ORIGINAL: Notecrusher

i saw a LOT of mentions of groove matrix type functionality or as craig anderton put it in his sonar 7 list of missing features "alternative algorithms for composition".

cakewalk brought out p5 in the early days of ableton when ableton was missing functionality that would allow it to compete directly w/ sonar/cubase/logic as a full-featured host. now ableton is a bona fide alternative in the sequencer sweepstakes. i guess for people doing soundtrack work or recording bands this isn't important but for electronic music makers in 2008 it is essential. AND THE CODE IS JUST SITTING THERE IN P5!

+1
Also, a better audio engine like Ableton

I'd like Buss templates (like track templates for busses) and a better way of keeping notes with my projects - takes, tracks effects routings etc. It's a shame that I've got a computer that could take me to the moon but that good old pen and paper is still the best way of keeping tabs on what's going on in my projects.

I'm gonna keep it at that at the moment because my top request still stands as making the core program ruthlessly efficient and slick. I don't want any more add ins which don't get supported past that iteration in Sonar. If something gets added in it should be part of the core function of the app and be carried forwards too so that I don't have to dig out (or leave installed) all my old versions of Sonar to keep my projects working each time I upgrade.

Child

Probably won't happen, but:

1. Stable DAW. Completely rewrite the core of the application to make crashes an exception, not a many-times-a-day occurrence.
Notably redo the audio engine to make it work for hours, and not stop for unknown reasons.
If unable just buy Cockos (but I guess they want to stay independent) or license their audio engine.

2. Redo the GUI completely to make it more logical, streamlined for faster use and easier to understand.
As an example the configuration screens are difficult to understand and some change need to restart Sonar many times.
Having tested many apps (Ableton, FL-Studio, Reaper, ...) this is a typical Sonar specialty, it's much more streamlined in the other DAWs.

Also fix the many problems with things not working because this or that window isn't in focus when it should be.
This is all the more frustrating as the problem is absolutely not apparent (to the beginner). I have spent hours trying to redo things shown on youtube and not understanding what I was missing.
I used to think it was a problem with VSTi specifications but if it works in other DAWs it can in Sonar too.

3. Redo the help system completely (for example like the new Microsoft or Adobe help systems, fully searchable, fully centralized, with integrated feedback functionalities).
Don't put screenshots and simply (re)describe the screenshots in words.
Actually explain things and make sure that people writing the help system actually understand what they write.

A library of tutorials is a must nowadays, not a luxury.
Maybe accessible only for registered users a la FL-Studio.
Maybe with the help of professionals from Lynda.com or Total Training.
Do not make product demonstrations in videos (that's for the marketing department) but tutorials that are repeatable by someone at home.

Lessons a la Ableton Live would be great but not a must.

4. Have a public list of bugs and their status. Could be in a forum like for Reaper or in a knowledge base like Microsoft.
Make it easy to report a bug, have them confirmed / unconfirmed quickly and if possible fix them as soon as possible.

Not really Sonar specific

5. Improve the website. There is no comparison with sites from Presonus, M-Audio, Image Line, Digidesign, Native Instruments, ..., which are much more attractive, professional-looking and informative.

6. Aggressively partner with OEMs to have Sonar LE bundled with as many products as possible.
More users mean better survival chances, bigger potential license upgrade market, and it's a plus for existing users.
Most of the products are bundled with Cubase LE or Protools LE, very very rarely with Sonar.

This is probably a very hard time for the DAW industry right now, with musicians and facilities not having the budgets they used to have to spend on software and hardware.
There are too many DAWs and other music software have been quietly including DAW functionalities in their products, so much so that they now effectively offer fully fledged DAWs.
The industry is ripe for consolidation, some like Apple have already taken big aggressive steps to defend their turfs, with enormous progress of Logic and a price halved at the same time.
The others, except perhaps entrenched Digidesign, will have to follow.
If the 3D software industry recent history is any guide, there will be blood.

Good luck.

My wishlist is short: More stability! I dont mention other wishes, because i hope that Cakewalk developers will spent their mean time in improving the basic stability of the audioengine.

ORIGINAL: 21doors

My wishlist is short: More stability! I dont mention other wishes, because i hope that Cakewalk developers will spent their mean time in improving the basic stability of the audioengine.

I'd like this too, but I think that's too much out of their control. Sonar does not sell HD cards. Sonar works fine on some systems, and on many other systems there are many problems. Every user has a different chipset on each component, from video card, to sound card, to firewire card, on and on and on... They could spend the next ten years making a system that works perfectly with technology now available, but all of that technology is going to be replaced within 3-6 months, and they'll be behind the curve again.
Its a huge waste of time.

IMO, what they should do is get a department together between marketing and programming (maybe 3-5 oompa loompa's ) that does nothing but experiment with different configurations, test, test, test, and report... Some long term tests would be great. .
Every computer chip matched with Video card, sound card, drivers, software, etc... and POST their findings AND make recommendations. I expect all systems experience audio glitches (this is digital)... just let us know which configs have the least amount/poor ratings. A couple postings every week... that would be cool. Of course they would need to refrain from taking/answering email or they wouldn't ever get any work done.

This would leave the programmers to do what is really important:
make the GUI skinnable, easier and more natural to navigate, sleeker, more professional,... For appearance, they should study vintage neve's, MCI's, Harrison's, etc. and come up with a console view that is simply impressive.

What are you saying??? [*shakes head*]

1- Search this forum for "Uneven core loadings" and "Motorboating". You'll see MANY people having the same issues.
2- Cakewalk already test Sonar on different configurations and even has a beta testing department with a few hunderd people created for this purpose.
3- I hate when developers try to emulate hardware devices, it just doesn't work well with a mouse. Ever tried to turn a knob with a mouse? Digital interfaces should have their own feel, not completely removed from analog, but just something that works in the intended environment. A great example of this is Izotope plugs.

Cakewalk already test Sonar on different configurations and even has a beta testing department with a few hunderd people created for this purpose.

why the heck aren't they reporting to this forum once a day! Does every single system configuration sound like junk?!

btw, a few hundred people = 200 ($40,000- $80,000 salary/year)... $8-$16 million per year for beta testing?! AND no reporting?! And cakewalk is a good company doing a good thing?

ORIGINAL: 21doors

While you might not care, people who pay for studio time want to look at something that looks cool.

I think Sonar already looks cool unlike ProTools...oh wait...

Top engineers have a deep love for analog gear. They avoid Sonar. They put up with digidesign glitches and crashes because, hey, it looks pro. Even the name says pro.
How do you expect Sonar to ever get any respect?

Wrong again my friend. Engineers use ProTools because it's the industry standard (as in most people in the industry use it). If Sonar was the industry standard then that's what engineers would be using in order to stay compatible. It just easier to work with different studios when the same software is used. Not nocking down on ProTools by the way, cause it does have its strengths just like the other DAWs out there.

ORIGINAL: 21doors

Okay, I've cooled off a bit...



here's some proof that Sonar is already rock solid:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1391067

notice "NO CRASHES"

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1090789&mpage=13&key=?

Sonar is an awesome software, don't get me worng, but we're not getting the most of it if you're a hardcore user like some of us here. Generally speaking people will be satisfied with its performance as it is. Just search the terms I gave you earlier and see what I'm talking about. Even that last link you posted has a picture of what I'm talking about (look at the CPU meter). It kinda looks like Sonar is flicking you off :-P

Peace out!

I've asked for this before, but I'll do it again. I'd like to see a small box with the names and/or pictures of all the open subwindows in Sonar when pressing Ctrl+Tab, analogous to the task switch command (Alt + Tab) in Windows. Still better if it could be made available with the mouse as well. In the Opera browser, while holding down the right mouse button and scrolling with the wheel you can choose from a small window/box which tab you want to put on top (see picture below).

If the soft synth property pages would be included in the list of open subwindows, this would make it much easier to find the particular synth or other window you want to go to.








Kind regards,
wb

Hi Nick-

and instead, this fall release Project 5 v3.

As I'm sure you know, this is almost a joke on the Project 5 forum. Personally, I'm starting to wonder if P5 is actually still under development at all.

Thanks-

-Susan

There are only a few things holding me back from switching 100% to Sonar...(still using Cubase SX 3.1 most of the time )

1. No option to pick-up/chase held midi notes. This is mandatory. Don't know why it's not an option.

2. No time-slider in Import>Audio or Rip CD dialog?! What?!?! What if I want to hear the last 12 seconds of a 5 minute file?

3. Plugin delay compensation bypass. ie: I'm at 99% of my finished mixdown (with plugins and UAD plugs etc), but got inspired to add one more piano MIDI track. I will get 100ms of latency with all the plugins, so I have to bypass every single effect bin in every track and group...blah... One button would solve this.

4. OGG File compatibility. Please...can we have the ability to import OGG files without crashes? Thanks.

5. Record in Play..."capture up to 10 minutes of any incoming audio you play in Stop mode or during playback, “after the fact”. This is possible because C****e can capture audio input in buffer memory, even when not recording." Very life-saving if you've needed it!

6. Console/Track highlighting. Another feature I thought would be obvious. Select a track in the track view, the same channel highlights in the console. Simple. Smart.

7. Tape-Machine Style monitoring. (http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1215835&mpage=1&key=??) - Implemented in 7.0.2!!!

8. "Select All Following" - hit a key command, and all the clips FOLLOWING the NOW TIME get highlighted. SUPER important when editing for film, dialog etc.

9. "Move to Now" - select a clip, hit a key command and the clip snaps to the current NOW TIME position. VITAL when syncing effects etc for film etc...

10. Macro Recorder. For the ability to chain several Sonar commands in a row and trigger it by a single key command.

11. Much more flexible track/channel preset handling. (ie: Saving and loading track presets (with sends, FX bin setting etc) OVERTOP of a current track, without adding a new track and having to drag and drop audio clips from old track to new etc..

12. The ability to scrub clips WITHOUT having to turn off a mute button or putting the channel fader up. Handy if you are importing someone else's OMF and need to hear what a specific clip is without going through more steps/mouse clicks.

13. Perhaps simmer down on the vertical scroll? ie: I'm zoomed in to see two audio tracks at a time, and I want to ALT-SELECT a region across several tracks to remove silence..when I bring the mouse cursor down to the bottom of the track view...the page just TAKES OFF and I'm suddenly looking at my last track (and have WAY more tracks selected than I wanted). Can we SMOOTH the vertical scroll a little more (instead of JUMPING track by track?)

14. Fix the V-Station Powercore Bug

15. When adjusting the pan control in the console with a WHEEL-MOUSE wheel, at a certain point when moving the wheel, the whole console suddenly starts scrolling.

16. I have a 64 track song, and I'd like to organize the mixer so I can select which tracks to show at one time. IE: is there a way I can 'group' all my drum tracks and then assign that to a key command to show only those tracks? And also do this with all BG Vox, etc...? That way I can flip between the track views as I need... instead of scrolling for 64 channels in the console (since SONAR refused to do auto-scroll when selecting a track in the track view)...similar to the current "Track Manager" but able to save view presets etc...instead of simple check on/off.

17. Update the 'remove silence' function to 2007 (ie: a little graphics with the waveform might be nice).

18. Ability to automate mute & solo buttons on busses/groups!?!?!?! How can you miss this one?!?!

19. Make the KEY BINDINGS window searchable? Instead of forcing the user to spend two hours looking for one command.

20. Is there a way we can dbl-click the track/channel FX bin and get a BIG window that shows all the plugs at once? (instead of scrolling up and down each bin)?

21. Make a more obvious indicator in the FX bin when editing a plug. So I double-click a compressor plugin, perhaps highlight/circle the compressor name in the FX bin with a bright red or light blue color so I know which plug on which track I'm working with? especially helpful when having 4 plugins open at once.

22. Where the heck are the simple RW/FF controls? Yes, I know we can go measure-by-measure, or spend all day making markers. But what if I just want to RW back a few beats in front of the current bar?

23. How about the simple ability to ENABLE WRITE AUTOMATION while already in playback?!

24. Some kind of indicator on controls that already have automation? (check out REASON for this feature). Highlighting or circling the control with a green colour to show it already has automation? (of course, this will be user optional in the prefs.)

25. More automation modes please!! (ie: Touch, Latch, Overwrite, Jump, Skip and Hop).

26. The ability to move more than one track at a time with the mouse(in the track view window). (note: NOT audio clips, but actual tracks) without having to go through the whole long process of Select multiple tracks, Track->Sort, choose selected and ascending/descending etc...Just make it a simple mouse drag.

27. Simple Waveform drawing tool (to take out 1-sample ticks etc....). Very basic, Very obvious, Very useful...please?!?!

28. A MUCH more accurate (aka: LESS WILD) scrub. Something smooth with shuttle option on single tracks.

29. The ability to assign the track name to all clips on the same track. ie: I dbl-click the track name, rename it and hit SHIFT-ENTER, and that will also rename all clips to the same name.

30. Please tell me there's a way to GROUP CLIPS in the track window? PLease!?!?! please tell me. I can't find anything in the help file.

31. A useable AUDIO POOL (like Cubase SX)!!

32. Make the GRID LINES IN THE PIANO ROLL change to the same as grid value. ie: if I select 1/8 note for grid, put some darn 1/8 note grid lines! If I select 1/16 notes for grid value, then show some 1/16th note grid lines!

33. Give us at least a LITTLE flexibility with fades on audio clips!!! (ie: more than 3 basic fade curves, the ability to use points in a fade-curve option window etc)

34. Please make it possible to turn on/off the audio metronome during playback.

35. Make the MUTE and SOLO buttons on audio track layers a little bigger please?

36. Make the Maximum Zoom Out REALLY ZOOM OUT! I have 45 tracks, and I want to see ALL of them. Not just the top 16....zoom out should actually ZOOM OUT. Thanks.

37. When adjusting volume envelope points on automation, can you also display the DIFFERENCE in db? and not just the actual value (ie: I move a point from -8dB to -6dB, can you display a +2dB tooltip too?)

38. Make it possible to move crossfades between audio. ie: I x-fade two audio clips, and after listening I realize I need to move the x-fade a little farther. Let me just grab the x-fade and slide it anywhere I want.

39. Make the dB range in the Sonitus EQ selectable? I don't think many people here ever use 15dB of cut/boost when eq-ing, so perhaps having the default at 6dB range makes more sense? BUT, also add a drop down to the EQ to select 12, and 15dB range too? Will make it easier when changing EQs with the graphic points. Just an idear!

40. Treat the bus channels more like regular mixer channels! ie: we should be able to Actively SELECT bus channels (the same way as tracks), and ALSO MAKE THE SELECTED BUS CHANNEL SHOW UP ON MY MCU'S SELECT LIGHT TOO PLEASE!!!

41. another 'inspector' type of window for showing audio clip information (ie: total clip length, start time, end time etc..) in user selectable time bases, ie: ms, samples, beats, smpte time etc... IN REAL TIME. Not some kind of right-click>show info window...

42. The abilty to 'split' control surfaces (ie: Mackie Control + XT) into two devices. So we can have audio tracks show on the Mackie XT, while showing Bus channels on the Main MCU!

43. Make the 'un-solo ALL' button work for busses too please! Please do not treat the busses so differently from the regular audio channels (ie: allow selectable busses, allow mute/solo automation etc).

44. When dragging/dropping midi or audio clips from explorer to the track view, please make it a more obvious display of where we're dropping them? (ie: make a long vertical bar pointer at the beginning of the clip along with a tooltip stating current bar position?!)

45. Allow us to select multiple tracks/channels in the console view (for easier output routing when changing several channels at once. IE: I want to see all the current tracks that route to FF800 Analog 1 ONLY and re-route them to FF800 Analog 3 etc).

46. Capture last take as recording ( if you just play around with your song on a miditrack whithout being in record mode, you can press a key and Voilá what you just played is now recorded, like magic. Logic and Cubase have the feature since years ago)

47. Legato "quantize" Your midi notes will be shortened or lengthend( is that a word?) to just reach the next midinote and not overlapping

48. Don't let Roland take your programmers away from working on this list.

49. The ability to change project sample rates WITHOUT having to start a new project and re-import the tracks and re-create the busses and the mix levels etc.

50. Have an 'auto mute' option for track layers. When I record onto a single track with track layers enabled, please mute the previous layer when recording a new take. Instead of having the user try to click that dang super-duper-small mute button on the layer. This should be an option in the prefs.

51. introduce a track delay positive or negative, I've found only Time+ for midi, But Audio?

52. Pen tool to draw out single sample clicks etc...!!!

I think Sonar should be just like Cubase, look and behave exactly like Cubase- except that it should not be Cubase because I love Sonar and hate Cubase, that's why I am here.

F@KKER

Great post.

rdolmat, fantastic list. This one might be my favorite:

<< 48. Don't let Roland take your programmers away from working on this list. >>

Hi Rich-

Some excellent suggestions here! I've said it before, I'll say it again -- just make sure you post your "official" FRs here:
http://www.cakewalk.com/support/featurerequest.asp

-Susan