FastBikerBoy
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 12:07:58
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Twigman
Chregg
sorry but am not impressed at all, this should be part of an update or something, £35 for a minor upgrade, which this is all its is !!!
+1
paying extra for what is little more than a couple of new features is not on....esp when there are bugs that need fixing more important than new bells and whistles.....same old same old - add new features (&new bugs) for $$$ before fixing the existinmg product.
If you read the thread you'll see that bug fixes are coming as free patches. The extra ££ is for the extra toys............
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Elffin
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 12:15:54
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SO far I like the expanded... really great ideas...
1 or 2 questions.....
Does the browser show the icon pictures?
Are Note value 'icons' back in notation window? - integrated step record perhaps???
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John
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 12:20:53
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Does the browser show the icon pictures? Are you talking about track and buss icons? If you are I would like to see this implemented too.
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TerraSin
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 12:41:39
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My question is, with this being released, when can we expect to see a new version of Sonar out (X2 or otherwise named)? I certainly don't want to buy then and then 6 months down the road have to buy a whole new version of Sonar.
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dappa1
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 12:44:37
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Well It's good to know that Cakewalk are listening. In one of my several posts I mentioned that they should have a longer cycle and produce other things in the run up to the yearly upgrade.
Well done Cake!
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Chregg
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 12:49:21
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If you read the thread you'll see that bug fixes are coming as free patches. The extra ££ is for the extra toys............ i know its was 1st thing in the morning rant lol
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Keni
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 13:03:13
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Am I The only one wondering 'bout this?
Why is Cakewalk making yet another plugin standard (proprietary)? I understand that there's issues with using vst as it's another company's proprietary spec (maybe part of the reason they haven't adopted vst3?)...
There's still dx... isn't there? Is microsoft not updating their standard to keep up with vst's?...
I already posted a similar comment in the Production Package thread... but it really belongs here...
Are they really expecting enuf 3rd party developers to create for yet another standard just for X1 Producer Extended owners? (damn these names are getting long and convoluted)...
I know PT has such but they were the first and there's are/were tied to their hardware as there were no standards for general computer use on the Mac or PC back then....
Am I missing something here? Now we have the added confusion of trying to get our dx/vst plugins to work with this "PC Standard"... How to get a vst in between these plugins... A new wrapper to wrap dx/vst's to PC? So we'll re-wrap our already wrapped plugins yet again?
Don't get me wrong... I like what the new software is adding but I'm concerned about it's direction in some ways... I'm perfectly happy to have a longer development cycle with paid updates along the way... (again falling into everyone else's format... Good bye 12 tones and hello roland - See Roland's latest new products flyer where the last item is Sonar Production Ket m(sorry if I've mis-named it)...)
But now I'm gonna need new PC standard plugins of all the other plugins I need..... That's gonna happen fast, huh?
Pleased and disappointed...
Keni
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MUSE
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 13:05:50
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John T
MUSE
Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]
As much as I understand your desire for said features (and it's not my intent to seem flippant), drag and drop replacement of synths was never part of the X1 spec nor was it promised as a feature.
It was stated as something planned in several threads eg:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?&m=2158489&mpage=1
"Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]
Because you are double clicking in the synth rack not the plugin browser. To insert a NEW synth double click its name in the plugin browser tab.
BTW there is an exhaustive shortcuts list for the browser listed in the new fine print which is linked at the top of the forum. There is even a gesture to drag and replace the contents of an existing effects bin by holding down the ALT key when dragging. Not exactly replacing a single plugin but its a step in the right direction. Full synth replace is something we definitely have planned. Its easy we just don't have enough hours in the day to get to all these details. Now when is somone going to write a real time expansion plugin? :) "
Hmm... that doesn't say it's "planned for a free update" or anything though, does it? I mean, there's no actual commitment being broken here.
Not saying there is necesarily - with hindsight things look less clear but given that thread was soon after the release of X1 I think it's understandable that people would have taken that to mean in an update within the current X1 cycle, and certainly the idea of it being denied to Studio owners did not even cross anyones mind. To me this particular feature is not a premium enhancement, it is simply completing a feature set that was not fully realised in the first release. It's a basic workflow feature, not a "Production" related one and does not belong in a Producer grade product alone.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 13:11:19
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TerraSin
My question is, with this being released, when can we expect to see a new version of Sonar out (X2 or otherwise named)? I certainly don't want to buy then and then 6 months down the road have to buy a whole new version of Sonar.
Seth has stated in another thread that this is not going to happen.
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Bub 
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 13:13:05
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Keni
Am I The only one wondering 'bout this?
Nope. Why is Cakewalk making yet another plugin standard (proprietary)? I understand that there's issues with using vst as it's another company's proprietary spec (maybe part of the reason they haven't adopted vst3?)...
Unfortunately there's absolutely nothing we can do about it other than stop buying their products. So, we're at a crossroads. We're either on board or off board. I'm relying heavily on the fact that we're being told there a lot of issues resolved with the Pro Channel in this update, so I'm going to be jumping on this bandwagon. But if I get burned again like I felt we all did with X1 initial release, there will be no complaining or ****ing this time. This time I'm just going to walk away and be done with it. Another thing I hope and pray got fixed is the Tool Bar turning gray. That and the PC stuff, and I'll be a very happy camper.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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John T
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 13:16:06
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Surely, if you want to avoid getting burned, as you describe it, then now is a bit early to decide whether you'll be buying or not. I'm going to wait to see fuller details myself.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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Keni
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 13:19:13
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Hi Bub...
Well, as the ads are already saying "is available" instead of "soon to be", I already tried to buy it but can't find it... So that tells you what I'm about...
Complain? sure I will ...as well as praise it as I always want things to get better! ;-)
The future? I'm questioning the logic of it by a world is not logical, so the future remains to be written...
Tho you'll often hear me complain as well as rant and rave, I still believe that this product has always been a good path for making music (for me) and I expect to stay with them if they can stay alive longer than I (my hope)...
I'm very broke and put off buying the Z3 update as I'm doing very little synth work these days, but I'm ready to buy this today if it becomes available! ;-)
Keni
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John T
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 13:20:17
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Where does it say "available"?
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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Jonbouy
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 13:38:01
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FastBikerBoy
Twigman
Chregg
sorry but am not impressed at all, this should be part of an update or something, £35 for a minor upgrade, which this is all its is !!!
+1
paying extra for what is little more than a couple of new features is not on....esp when there are bugs that need fixing more important than new bells and whistles.....same old same old - add new features (&new bugs) for $$$ before fixing the existinmg product.
If you read the thread you'll see that bug fixes are coming as free patches. The extra ££ is for the extra toys............
So to recap, away from the marketing depts. dry ice machine and coloured lights, these extra new toys are; 1/ The ability to add standard VST's that have been specifically nobbled only to work in Pro Channel. 2/ A Reason 3 (or greater) style combinator device to combine several FX into one. 3/ An extra notation program output format. 4/ Direct uploads to Soundcloud. I can't wait.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/09/15 13:40:35
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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LANEY
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 13:40:14
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I think this way for plugins is less problematic and saves cpu usage or lowers it. I am all for the new way of doing this DAW thing.
i7/16GB ram Win 7 x64 SONAR Platinum Producer x64 VS-700 C&R Octa-Capture and VS-100 for live recording
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stevec
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 13:42:26
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5/ Replace Synth
6/ Dragging into the Browser
7/ Whatever we're forgetting or haven't been told yet
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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Jonbouy
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 13:45:28
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LANEY
I think this way for plugins is less problematic and saves cpu usage or lowers it. I am all for the new way of doing this DAW thing.
I can see you are all for it, but the reasoning you give doesn't make any sense, it's still a VST 2.4 compliant .dll however it is disguised. It won't make any difference at all other than of course you won't be able to use PC modules outside of Sonar.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Jonbouy
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 13:49:46
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stevec
5/ Replace Synth
6/ Dragging into the Browser
7/ Whatever we're forgetting or haven't been told yet
Whoa, yeah forgive me that makes ALL the difference. So to be fair we now have. 1/ The ability to add standard VST's that have been specifically nobbled only to work in Pro Channel. 2/ A Reason 3 (or greater) style combinator device to combine several FX into one. 3/ An extra notation program output format. 4/ Direct uploads to Soundcloud. 5/ Replace Synth 6/ Dragging into the Browser 7/ Whatever we're forgetting or haven't been told yet Those that have stuck with X1's growing pains all the way from December will have to pay a third of the full version upgrade price for this killer added functionality? Man, I was thinking they deserved some kind of award.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/09/15 13:54:47
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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stevec
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 14:10:57
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Whoa, yeah forgive me that makes ALL the difference...
...Those that have stuck with X1's growing pains all the way from December will have to pay a third of the full version upgrade price for this killer added functionality? Sheesh, sorry for adding two things that I think may be worthwhile... And no, as always there is no "have to" involved. At some point Seth stated that additional fixes would be made to free patches of "regular" X1. So the way I look at it this Expanded thing isn't a requirement, but an optional set of new/enhanced features. And personally I like the concept. Oh, and BTW, you're forgiven. 
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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Jonbouy
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 14:16:34
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stevec
Oh, and BTW, you're forgiven.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 14:19:17
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Jonbouy
FastBikerBoy
Twigman
Chregg
sorry but am not impressed at all, this should be part of an update or something, £35 for a minor upgrade, which this is all its is !!!
+1
paying extra for what is little more than a couple of new features is not on....esp when there are bugs that need fixing more important than new bells and whistles.....same old same old - add new features (&new bugs) for $$$ before fixing the existinmg product.
If you read the thread you'll see that bug fixes are coming as free patches. The extra ££ is for the extra toys............
So to recap, away from the marketing depts. dry ice machine and coloured lights, these extra new toys are;
1/ The ability to add standard VST's that have been specifically nobbled only to work in Pro Channel.
2/ A Reason 3 (or greater) style combinator device to combine several FX into one.
3/ An extra notation program output format.
4/ Direct uploads to Soundcloud.
I can't wait.
I don't think purchase is compulsory. 
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Jonbouy
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 14:24:37
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I don't think purchase is compulsory. Where did I imply it was? I was trying to quantify what is actually included aside from optical illusions.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/09/15 14:27:28
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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dgrm44
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 14:31:01
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For those who didn't get my initial comparison between Sonar versions and Windows versions...what I meant is I am not a fan of a lot of different versions as it confuses the end users. Sonar is now up to 6. There are six references to different Sonar products on the cakewalk main page Music Software dropdown menu. Imagine a newbie trying to educate himself on Sonar from the cakewalk website. Might be a bit frustrating for him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Microsoft_Windows_versions
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stevec
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 14:31:46
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I was trying to quantify what is actually included aside from optical illusions I like optical illusions. Like those pictures where you stare unfocused and then suddenly a hidden image appears. Cool stuff. Kinda reminds me of those times back in the late 70s... 
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 14:37:43
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Jonbouy
I don't think purchase is compulsory.
Where did I imply it was? I was trying to quantify what is actually included aside from optical illusions.
Those that have stuck with X1's growing pains all the way from December will have to pay a third of the full version upgrade price for this killer added functionality?
It's been said elsewhere that the bug fixes will be free patches, so as I said in the original quote the extra ££ is for the extra toys, not for bug fixes.
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daryl1968
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 14:39:31
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8/ Softube Saturation included........value as a stand alone plug in?......more than $49?....probably
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John
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 14:41:41
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First we need to let this news peculate a bit. Its been a shock to the system and we don't know what this will really mean. We don't have the expanded PC yet and no one has reported on its functionally. It could conceivably turn out to be a problematic addition.
Also I am somewhat troubled by how some of the included features are going to be only a part of the paid for expanded version. Some of these things should be in a patch. All the browser features for example rightfully look to me as simply further development. Not totally new or unforeseen. Further I am wondering about the X1 Studio users. It appears as if CW is pushing them to upgrade to a version they didn't want and don't need in order to get the few things that would improve X1 for them.
As to price I am not all that happy with what CW has proposed here. I see a full $128 for the equivalent of the Suite. True that will be $499 to new users but keep in mind that we have done our duty and upgraded from a previous version and have in many cases a long standing bill that CW has gotten each year for a long time now. I don't begrudge them a fee I do wonder how they decided on this pricing scheme.
Also one has to wonder what X2 will have for the normal upgrade price. Will this mean half or more will already be in our present version by our opting for the expanded version what will that leave us in the new one?
There are a lot of things that I think need to be resolved and I look at the way its now configured as unsupportable at least to some degree.
The above is some reservation I have. I do like the concept and I am looking forward to X1 expanded. We shall see.
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Jonbouy
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 14:42:37
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FastBikerBoy
Jonbouy
I don't think purchase is compulsory.
Where did I imply it was? I was trying to quantify what is actually included aside from optical illusions.
Those that have stuck with X1's growing pains all the way from December will have to pay a third of the full version upgrade price for this killer added functionality?
It's been said elsewhere that the bug fixes will be free patches, so as I said in the original quote the extra ££ is for the extra toys, not for bug fixes.
Yes, and I said, nay asked even, here they will have to pay a third of the full version upgrade price for this killer added functionality? I you embolden at me I will embolden you back... 
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/09/15 14:43:39
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 14:45:47
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I love ping-pong but my first "have to" comment was tongue-in-cheek, trying to inject some much needed humour on the forum.
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Jonbouy
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/15 14:46:07
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daryl1968
8/ Softube Saturation included........value as a stand alone plug in?......more than $49?....probably
Pro Channel already has tube saturation, no? That was vaunted as being the best thing since sliced bread so now they've got someone else to bake a new loaf the last one was so good? I'm not trying to rain on anybody's parade here if you want it then go get it. I'm just not seeing much that excites me is all, even for £35. In fact I'd be fed up if they were asking me to pay for this on top of showing willing from the outset.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/09/15 14:51:13
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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